DK- To Nerf or Not to Nerf

Anrik

Just like to say I find it funny how half the threads about DK's are about how they can't do vet content and they need to be buffed, and the other half say they are OP and shouldn't be able to solo anything.

(And yes saying "half" is generalizing, but you get the point)

Fablelost

Dk are op and 75% of player base will agree with me.

ers101284b14_ESO

Player 1 kills 10 Templars just fine. Comes up against a DK who is better and gets killed. Automatically assumes DK is overpowered. Player 2 sucks at playing and is a DK, gets killed all the time. Assumes DK is underpowered. As a DK I find it fairly balanced. When I played Templar I could heal myself much easier but took me longer to kill enemies. As a DK I do more damage but have a harder time sustaining health.

czar

leave them as they are, buff the weak classes

Baphomet

leave them as they are, buff the weak classes

Yup, DKs and sorcs are in a pretty good state right now. Just fix nightblades and give templars a little luv.

Korozenn

No. Don't nerf anything else about any class in the game.

Right now, the issues with balancing are that Nightblade and Templars are borked classes. Those classes need their abilities fixed and balanced so that they can all four be on similar ground with each in a variety of builds.

Secondly, the other primary concern for balancing is fixing melee weaponry (in general) as none of it suffices as a replacement to any ranged weapon in this game. As someone else said in a comment on these forums: you equip Light Armor + Destruction Staff = Instant Win. All of the weapons need to be balanced, and it's the Destruction Staff that actually may be the only weapon in the game that needs to be nerfed, but I can't even really see the reason for that as the only really useful ability in that skill line is/was Impulse.

Lasty, trash mobs in VR Zones need to take a chill pill and get toned down in their difficulty by a margin to correlate with those changes, if necessary. We had a thread already on the forums about how healing mobs (especially in Vet Zones) can heal all of damage inflicted by them in one spell, when it takes us multiple casts and depleting our own Magicka to use our own to a similar degree. Those types of issues need to be fixed.

One all that is fixed, it'll be obvious why there's no need to nerf Dragonknight or Sorcerer any longer.

P.S. Oh yeah, before I forget. ZeniMax, please understand we just want a balanced game...no more ninja-nerfs that don't help when we reach end-game or the last few quests of the Main Story, please...

Goibot

Please no more nerf's.
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/105721/class-balancing#latest

Ragekniv

Evidence lies in many forms and is easily discernible from community forum content. Statistics and group composition of Trials groups are arguably the most telling of empirical derivatives of class imbalance.

Sorcs and DKs are either OP or Templars and NBs are woefully under powered.

Either way after Beta and three months of legitimate player base subscription revenue, the imbalance of class power does not bode well for a robust and happy player population.

I have hope that Zenimax will address the balance issue.

The question is how many more months of player base subscription payments will be necessary to see balance and whether the games population will die off in attrition.

anakaki

Anrik wrote: »

Just like to say I find it funny how half the threads about DK's are about how they can't do vet content and they need to be buffed, and the other half say they are OP and shouldn't be able to solo anything.

(And yes saying "half" is generalizing, but you get the point)

Who's saying dk aren't OP? Stop trolling.

czar

Korozenn wrote: »

Lasty, trash mobs in VR Zones need to take a chill pill and get toned down in their difficulty by a margin to correlate with those changes, if necessary. We had a thread already on the forums about how healing mobs (especially in Vet Zones) can heal all of damage inflicted by them in one spell, when it takes us multiple casts and depleting our own Magicka to use our own to a similar degree. Those types of issues need to be fixed.

it's like trash mobs have higher stats than players???? why zos

Melian

Don't nerf, and I say that as someone whose NB is VR1 and whose DK is level
12. Buff the weakest classes if necessary; it creates less negativity.

pknecron

Ragekniv wrote: »

Evidence lies in many forms and is easily discernible from community forum content. Statistics and group composition of Trials groups are arguably the most telling of empirical derivatives of class imbalance.

Sorcs and DKs are either OP or Templars and NBs are woefully under powered.

Either way after Beta and three months of legitimate player base subscription revenue, the imbalance of class power does not bode well for a robust and happy player population.

I have hope that Zenimax will address the balance issue.

The question is how many more months of player base subscription payments will be necessary to see balance and whether the games population will die off in attrition.

That's why classes were a bad idea. They should have just put all the skills in a pot, tossed them out there, and said: "Here you are, go at it." Let us figure it out.

Sihnfahl

Ragekniv wrote: »

Sorcs and DKs are either OP or Templars and NBs are woefully under powered

You can't say Temps and NBs are underpowered when they're broken.

That's like trying to claim an engine has too few horsepower when the timing belt breaks regularly or the cylinders are warped...

RangerChad

I don't think any classes should be nerfed, NB and Templar need to be buffed to Sorc and Dk capabilities and instances need buffed so no matter how OP a build you have you must have a group for that instance. Perhaps add more boss or dungeon mechanics.

tanthil

umm hate to break it to you but the bots have all switched to DK's after bitting jabs nerf, nerf incoming

Ragekniv

Sihnfahl wrote: »

Ragekniv wrote: »

Sorcs and DKs are either OP or Templars and NBs are woefully under powered

You can't say Temps and NBs are underpowered when they're broken.

That's like trying to claim an engine has too few horsepower when the timing belt breaks regularly or the cylinders are warped...

You're preaching to the congregation. I certainly won't contest that Templars and NBs are broken.

But really its an issue of semantics. Broken or woefully underpowered, the classes are treading water at best compared to the obscenely OP Sorcs and DKs.

Beta and three months of legitimate subscription player base revenue should bear more fruit from Zenimax.

I don't expect perfect class balance but I find the current lack of balance of all classes to be inexcusable.

I have growing concern that this imbalance will result in an event horizon of player base attrition and ESO's loss of relevance.

Just look at your friends list and guilds and consider the precipitous drop in activity.

Artemiisia

for me NO, and no im not a DK player.

My reason is this:

I see the DK as the perfect char right now. It the class that can play the game and have good clean challenge fun. If we nerf this class, we lose our tank in groups/dungeons/trails.

I actually want to see the other way around, make the other classes better, but not the same, since they should still have like their own class abilities to rely on.

derpmonster

Anrik wrote: »

Just like to say I find it funny how half the threads about DK's are about how they can't do vet content and they need to be buffed, and the other half say they are OP and shouldn't be able to solo anything.

(And yes saying "half" is generalizing, but you get the point)

I find that if a lot of people are complaining something is OP and just as many people are saying it's not then it's probably pretty balanced.

Probably other classes could use more love before they start looking to nerf things.

Nerfs are anti fun.

Shaun98ca2

Don't neft DK/Sorcerers just buff all the mobs so they are challenging again.

Im sure ZOS while balance how they see fit. Regardless of DK/Sorcerers threating to quit.

I see people complain that they got nerfed all the time. They complain cause they are still around to complain meaning they haven't left.

p.hurst1b16_ESO

It is the players that chose NB and assume they know what they are doing that say it is weak. Properly built NB can do high dps with high survivability. Weapon swaps are needed for the really tough stuff.

For Templar it is players that simply wanted some kind of TES hybrid and found that it did not work as they expected. Templar is different and its healing line kinda makes that obvious. I still kill faster with it than any other class at lower levels. In Beta Sorc was stronger but crystal shard does not do as much now.

Sorc and DK have a lot of obvious synergies with certain weapon types so they have been easier to get more out of early on.

NB is the elitists weapon of choice in PvE in many ways, awesome dps and can be an amazing healer too. Can tank as well as any other class.


The thing that needs changing is not the classes but the whole Stamina and weapon skill scaling. Stamina is multi purpose and you NEED the rolls and sprints and interrupts. That is what is wrong. Lack of melee viability and this would not be the first MMO to have issues with that.


The QQ on these forums is disappointing. I would have expected better from a TES game, oh wait, no I wouldn't. I think I got what I feared and not what I hoped for. Such is life.

Ragekniv

p.hurst1b16_ESO wrote: »

For Templar it is players that simply wanted some kind of TES hybrid and found that it did not work as they expected. Templar is different and its healing line kinda makes that obvious. I still kill faster with it than any other class at lower levels. In Beta Sorc was stronger but crystal shard does not do as much now.

The QQ on these forums is disappointing. I would have expected better from a TES game, oh wait, no I wouldn't. I think I got what I feared and not what I hoped for. Such is life.

What Templars wanted is no different than what all classes expected from the marketing hype of EOS.

Pick and play any class, play it any way you want to play and be effective.

Low level content is not a relevant measure of a classes effectiveness or an indication of all classes being balanced.

The empirical derivatives of end game content such as Craglorn trials disproportionate representation of Sorcs and DKs provides a much clearer focal point of concern.

Sorcs and DKs face rolling VR and end game content is obscene.

A collective call for balance is constructive feedback, not QQing.

Beta and three months of player base subscription revenue should bear evidence of all classes being in balance.

ESO's relevance is approaching an event horizon as player base attrition is evident.

Be objective and look at friends list and guilds, the decline of active members online has been precipitous.

Indarqeen

why did they nerf bash ? it´s a skill all can learn, nerfing something all can do but not something behold of one class ?????


[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Ardeni

I don't think that DKs are very overpowered at the moment. I would give them slight nerfs on the standard of might and burning talons, though, even as a DK myself I feel it's a bit ridiculous how much damage you can deal using those two after burning somebody's stamina using the talons without the standard.

Baphomet

Dark talons + standard is incredibly easy to get out of now. We all now laugh at the DK that shield-charge into a crowd and then uses dark talons and drops standard. We all just dodge-roll back and laugh at him while he holds down block and doesn't know which direction to face or what enemy to CC.

After a few second of combined light attacks = dead DK. No, sticking your head out now is very dangerous, even for a DK. Any coordinated group thwart their efforts relatively easy now - which is alright. I am playing a DK too and I am finding that I need to put some more thought into my combat, which I like.

tplink3r1

dont nerf DKs, buff NBs and templars.

crislevin

Fablelost wrote: »

Dk are op and 75% of player base will agree with me.

Make that 100, I think dk themselves know that too, admitting or not.

EvilIguana

Melian wrote: »

Don't nerf, and I say that as someone whose NB is VR1 and whose DK is level
12. Buff the weakest classes if necessary; it creates less negativity.

Assume that the ideal "power level" of a class is 100. A properly challenging enemy has a monster power level of 100. Class A currently has a power level of 110, class B a power level of 90. If we buff class B so that it has a power level equal to class A then suddenly the content is too easy. So now we have to increase the power level of every monster by 10% to compensate. That is a lot of work, especially given that a player power level of 110 versus a monster power level of 110 plays identically to 100 vs 100.

But wait, we did all that work but we screwed up. Class B now has a power level of 120. By your logic we now have to buff class A up to 120, then buff all the monsters up to 120. That is silly. If a class is overpowered you nerf it. If a class in underpowered you buff it. The idea that you should only ever adjust things upward is silly in abstract and unworkable in practice. People need to stop.

AlexDougherty

Anrik wrote: »

Just like to say I find it funny how half the threads about DK's are about how they can't do vet content and they need to be buffed, and the other half say they are OP and shouldn't be able to solo anything.

(And yes saying "half" is generalizing, but you get the point)

The answer is not to nerf the DK, but to boost the other classes until they can match it.

DK feels about right, it's the others that feel weak.

Edit~ missed a "S" out

Shiroro

The other classes should be buffed to where DK is. Making every class on par with sorc would be an ok compromise.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

no class needs to be nerfed, the underpowered classes just need to be buffed

Xsorus

DK's and Sorcs aren't overpowered

Light Armor and Staves are.