What killed PvP?

Lowbei

Campaign pops are all low even in primetime, yet we arent even to the 2 month mark...

in your opinion, what killed it?

FireCowCommando

Caltrops bug

Little surprised that you listed AoE cap twice, and not population imbalance =/

sucks logging in on your side for weeks having no keeps and no players to work with to take them, and 3-1 odds for the few that remain trying to get outside your own factions gate

Lowbei

All of the above

ae caps arent listed twice.

but i know some people who quit because zos ignored the poll, proving that they dont care what the players think, which is a big deal when your players lose trust

Izatar

AE caps had zero effect. None. Quit harping on it. Only a few players cared, and they are hardcore and don't quit.

Population imbalance is the reason. Population imbalance created by a ridiculous faction system.

Hakurei

Lag

i would say it is lag,caltrops bug and invulnerable mercenaries. i think non bugged mercenaries are fine for complementing siege pvpve. Random lag however, especially on the higher pop servers, is top priority to fix.

Lowbei

All of the above

lol izatar, too funny

he really believes that too, adorable

Dealdrick

All of the above

The combination of bugs, exploits and the horrific lag. Those are the issues effecting gameplay, but the real problem is the lack of communication from the Dev team about these issues.

What is causing them? Why are they still here? What is your plan? DO YOU ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT PLAYER RETENTION?!?!

Magister_Aena

Lag

Battle lag and population imbalances, definitely. My guild toughs it out with exploits, but the game freezing while taking a keep or constantly being camped outside your gate? Hell no.

Avidus

The only thing that kills PvP is Population imbalance.
Something I have noticed is people refuse to play if they are not winning.

Ive been in some amazing map-wide 3way battles that lasted hours. But then all of a sudden the main opposition loses a keep, then there numbers dwindle and they get overrun by the force that was able to stop them before they lost half their group.
That main group then turn more attention to the 3rd alliance, the underdog, and rams them into the ground. And they leave.

People are not looking for challenging PvP, they are looking to win easily.
When they can't do that they leave.
And then there are the other players who are not apart of massive guilds, or are not online when action is happening. And they flock to servers like Wabbajack, where PvP is always active and back and forth.
Which is good for them.
But the guilds who own campaigns where people refuse to challenge them then have to guest in order to PvP.

And hence the birth of Farming Wabbajack for AP to use on their home campaigns.


So my answer to your Poll is none of the above.
Its a combination of Population imbalance and Guesting.

Forztr

You missed off players below VR1 are pretty much useless even more so now the NPCs are have been boosted. The fact that the rewards are bugged for non VR players as well was the final straw for me.

Lowbei

All of the above

i didnt include population imbalance as its not a real issue unless you are a zerger. l2p

SirAndy

All of the above

You need to read the forums more.

Obviously, it was the exploiting PTS testers that killed PvP ...

Izatar

Lowbei wrote: »

i didnt include population imbalance as its not a real issue unless you are a zerger. l2p

Look you. You want the reason other people quit or the reason you want to quit? You are selfish and unable to see other people's perspective. This sort of selfishness is another reason why people leave. People like you who think its fine if you stomp them into the ground over and over using unfair numbers and tactics.

FireCowCommando

Caltrops bug

Lowbei wrote: »

i didnt include population imbalance as its not a real issue unless you are a zerger. l2p

I have to disagree... if your side cant leave the gate without an organized group because the harder you push out, the more of them they show up... to the point where even your smaller organized group gets overrun there's a problem

i have no problem fighting odds between 1.5-2x my groups size, anything larger than that it becomes a really difficult challenge retaking our keeps, if not outright impossible. (partly due to gaurd changes and new merc spamming)

Dealdrick

All of the above

Izatar wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »

i didnt include population imbalance as its not a real issue unless you are a zerger. l2p

Look you. You want the reason other people quit or the reason you want to quit? You are selfish and unable to see other people's perspective. This sort of selfishness is another reason why people leave. People like you who think its fine if you stomp them into the ground over and over using unfair numbers and tactics.

I think what he was trying to say is that there is very little Zeni could do about population imbalance on specific campaigns and the purpose of the poll is to try and pinpoint issues people have had with the actual development of the game since launch.

cortechsnub18_ESO

Dealdrick wrote: »

Izatar wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »

i didnt include population imbalance as its not a real issue unless you are a zerger. l2p

Look you. You want the reason other people quit or the reason you want to quit? You are selfish and unable to see other people's perspective. This sort of selfishness is another reason why people leave. People like you who think its fine if you stomp them into the ground over and over using unfair numbers and tactics.

I think what he was trying to say is that there is very little Zeni could do about population imbalance on specific campaigns and the purpose of the poll is to try and pinpoint issues people have had with the actual development of the game since launch.

No, the point of his poll was to draw more attention to his current pet issues with PvP. If he were really looking for the reason PvP populations were so low, he would be open to other reasons. The PvP pop starting dying before all of these items were an issue.

Samadhi

All of the above

+ way more campaigns than necessary.

nukeyoo

imo, impatient whiny ***es

Dealdrick

All of the above

cortechsnub18_ESO wrote: »

Dealdrick wrote: »

Izatar wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »

i didnt include population imbalance as its not a real issue unless you are a zerger. l2p

Look you. You want the reason other people quit or the reason you want to quit? You are selfish and unable to see other people's perspective. This sort of selfishness is another reason why people leave. People like you who think its fine if you stomp them into the ground over and over using unfair numbers and tactics.

I think what he was trying to say is that there is very little Zeni could do about population imbalance on specific campaigns and the purpose of the poll is to try and pinpoint issues people have had with the actual development of the game since launch.

No, the point of his poll was to draw more attention to his current pet issues with PvP. If he were really looking for the reason PvP populations were so low, he would be open to other reasons. The PvP pop starting dying before all of these items were an issue.

Chillax bro, I'm not defending him or anyone else, I was just offering a possible explanation. And what exactly is your source for this claim that the PvP population declined before these issues? Do you even know when the issues listed on the poll even began or are you just spouting conjecture?

czar

imbalance

cortechsnub18_ESO

Dealdrick wrote: »

Chillax bro, I'm not defending him or anyone else, I was just offering a possible explanation. And what exactly is your source for this claim that the PvP population declined before these issues? Do you even know when the issues listed on the poll even began or are you just spouting conjecture?

I'm relaxed, and wasn't attacking. Just pointing out that the intent of the poll was fairly transparent.

And no, I don't have numbers to prove anything to you, but anyone who has been paying attention to the pops since early access can see when things changed. The biggest drops started when the empower vamps were running amok, and they didn't recover from that, partly because that is around the time VRs started becoming dominant.

Sure, issues like caltrops can cause a percentage to drop out, but it a percentage of an already ravaged pop.

Lowbei

All of the above

lol so many zergers

l2p and your pop imbalance issues go away, unless they continue to nerf aes till you cant farm zergs, but currently its still easy

ishilb14_ESO

All of the above

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

Dealdrick

All of the above

@cortechsnub18_ESO

I think you are missing what we are saying. Caltrops alone probably didn't push anyone away from PvP in this game. The fact that there are multiple bugs and exploits going on that are barely even addressed by the devs is the reason people are leaving. That, and the unplayable lag.

Izatar

Dealdrick wrote: »

People saw the PTS patch notes, heard opinions from the testers, and decided to move on.

You have a distorted view on this. Greater than 90% of players never read the forums at all, let alone PTS patch notes.

The vast number of regular people, what you might call casuals, logged into cyrodil, got completely stomped, and decided this game wasn't for them.

If you make a game most people can't win, most people won't play.

Dealdrick

All of the above

Izatar wrote: »

Dealdrick wrote: »

People saw the PTS patch notes, heard opinions from the testers, and decided to move on.

You have a distorted view on this. Greater than 90% of players never read the forums at all, let alone PTS patch notes.

The vast number of regular people, what you might call casuals, logged into cyrodil, got completely stomped, and decided this game wasn't for them.

If you make a game most people can't win, most people won't play.

If you don't think competitive players/guilds don't pay attention to upcoming changes in a game, then you and I strongly disagree on that fact. There were quite a few streams, videos and threads about the changes in that patch before it went live.

Izatar

Dealdrick wrote: »

If you don't think competitive players/guilds don't pay attention to upcoming changes in a game, then you and I strongly disagree on that fact.

Competitive guilds are a teensy fraction of the players in this game, like 1%.
The only influence they have is to be so obnoxious as to drive the masses of regular players away from the game.

Lowbei

All of the above

we said that the ae caps would kill it... they ignored us

at this point i really dont care if the game flops, because they deserve it for ignoring their players.

Dealdrick

All of the above

Izatar wrote: »

Dealdrick wrote: »

If you don't think competitive players/guilds don't pay attention to upcoming changes in a game, then you and I strongly disagree on that fact.

Competitive guilds are a teensy fraction of the players in this game, like 1%.
The only influence they have is to be so obnoxious as to drive the masses of regular players away from the game.

What ever man, enjoy the view from under that rock.

NordJitsu

The fact that ZOS ignored the ae cap poll

I don't think PvP is dead, so the poll wording is a bit off.

That said, I think it isn't more popular for many of the reasons mentioned.

I selected the AoE Cap poll because I think its the biggest issue (makes the game very zergy.) The reason I selected the poll is because while its okay to make mistakes, ZOS needs to listen to players when the feedback is overwhelming in one direction.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

All of the above

For me caltrops glitch and lag are what is mainly killing Cyrodil PvP, for me. Been too many times where I go to use one of my charge abilities, but I instead run in place for like 5 seconds, or my button press just gets ignored. But all of those things really contribute to dead PvP.

Having mercenary defenders isn't really so much of an issue, except the mage ones are too strong.

Aparently AE caps are getting exploited somehow along with caltrops exploit (read somewhere). Hopefully the fix monday to caltrops will fix that too.