This Game Has 2 Classes Only

Jeddahwe

I never claimed any class was OP, what I said the other 2 need to be raised

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Unless there is some magic switch that gets flipped at VR10, my dual-wield/bow Nightblade will still be doing just fine when I get to trials.

I honestly cannot comprehend the minds of people who sit at spreadsheets all day deciding whether or not the numbers for one class look shinier than the numbers for another. I have fun playing my Nightblade. I enjoy the game. I have always held my own in groups because I don't try to play my class like I'm a WoW-Rogue-clone.

The problem is a good majority of the nightblades do play their toon like a WoW-Rogue-clone (whiner mentality and all). Problem with this is that it makes all nightblades look like they have no concept of how THIS game's mechanics work. This makes it harder to get into groups for the good nightblades because the entire class has a bad rap.

The problem is that the game wasn't clear at get go that stamina based abilities aren't meant to be your main abilities. (The game is designed this way. Every classes core skills are magicka.) Now we have a lot of nightblades and even templars (two classes which the core abilities are lackluster, for whatever reason) that were using stamina based weapons to level 1-50, get punched in the face because VR levels is where the game finally lets you know that stamina abilities are supplementary.

DISCLAIMER: Yes, the nightblade is a broken class, however it can still be effective.

DISCLAIMER 2: Yes, templar class abilities are subpar, but it can still be effective.

This was actually insightful, I gave a badge! I had not thought of the game as magicka based with stamina as a supplement!

Arreyanne

When looking at the Nightblade abilities why would you not think this is a rogue type class?

DPS wise Sorc's can out DPS a Nightblade single target and AoE. The AoE part i don't see as a real problem DK's can also out DPS a Nightblade in both types.

So why should anyone take a NB into trials other than the NB being your friend or a guildie because in a DPS race others will have to carry the NB.

Gern_Verkheart

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

The problem is a good majority of the nightblades do play their toon like a WoW-Rogue-clone (whiner mentality and all). Problem with this is that it makes all nightblades look like they have no concept of how THIS game's mechanics work. This makes it harder to get into groups for the good nightblades because the entire class has a bad rap.

The problem is that the game wasn't clear at get go that stamina based abilities aren't meant to be your main abilities. (The game is designed this way. Every classes core skills are magicka.) Now we have a lot of nightblades and even templars (two classes which the core abilities are lackluster, for whatever reason) that were using stamina based weapons to level 1-50, get punched in the face because VR levels is where the game finally lets you know that stamina abilities are supplementary.

DISCLAIMER: Yes, the nightblade is a broken class, however it can still be effective.

DISCLAIMER 2: Yes, templar class abilities are subpar, but it can still be effective.

That's the problem right there though: if that is the case, then medium armor is pointless and should be scrapped.

We should be able to play our class while wearing medium armor, using both stamina based attacks and magicka based class attacks, and still be effective in veteran zones. As it stands: we aren't.

nerevarine1138

Gern_Verkheart wrote: »

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

The problem is a good majority of the nightblades do play their toon like a WoW-Rogue-clone (whiner mentality and all). Problem with this is that it makes all nightblades look like they have no concept of how THIS game's mechanics work. This makes it harder to get into groups for the good nightblades because the entire class has a bad rap.

The problem is that the game wasn't clear at get go that stamina based abilities aren't meant to be your main abilities. (The game is designed this way. Every classes core skills are magicka.) Now we have a lot of nightblades and even templars (two classes which the core abilities are lackluster, for whatever reason) that were using stamina based weapons to level 1-50, get punched in the face because VR levels is where the game finally lets you know that stamina abilities are supplementary.

DISCLAIMER: Yes, the nightblade is a broken class, however it can still be effective.

DISCLAIMER 2: Yes, templar class abilities are subpar, but it can still be effective.

That's the problem right there though: if that is the case, then medium armor is pointless and should be scrapped.

We should be able to play our class while wearing medium armor, using both stamina based attacks and magicka based class attacks, and still be effective in veteran zones. As it stands: we aren't.

I am. Which skills are you using on your hotbar that make you ineffective?

nerevarine1138

Arreyanne wrote: »

When looking at the Nightblade abilities why would you not think this is a rogue type class?

The entire Siphoning tree. Half the morphs in the Shadow tree. Half the morphs in the Assassination tree.

Just because you can't figure out how those skills are actually designed to be adaptable to any weapon/armor combination doesn't mean that they aren't adaptable. My alt is a Nightblade healer, and he does insanely well. I guess I missed the memo about us being a "rogue-type" class.

Arreyanne

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Arreyanne wrote: »

When looking at the Nightblade abilities why would you not think this is a rogue type class?

The entire Siphoning tree. Half the morphs in the Shadow tree. Half the morphs in the Assassination tree.

Just because you can't figure out how those skills are actually designed to be adaptable to any weapon/armor combination doesn't mean that they aren't adaptable. My alt is a Nightblade healer, and he does insanely well. I guess I missed the memo about us being a "rogue-type" class.

And did I say Rogue WoW type stun lock based character didn't think so. If I think it's suppose to a sneaky type character and you don't fine by me

KORJ

I got the 4V rank sorc archer and... threw him.

Now I NB mage.
And do not regret it.
Anyone who says that sorcerers are too strong, useless loser.

p.hurst1b16_ESO

NB has awesome dps if you build correctly. So does templar.

Too many new to MMO do not research builds properly. That is part of the learning process.

Sub forums for each class would be helpful and we could discuss builds.

deathperadoeb17_ESO

Ye, too bad people tried to play Elder Scrolls game here, where you can choose instead of using one or two "builds". So far for flexibility and diversity.

Tyr

Gern_Verkheart wrote: »

Ninnghizhidda wrote: »

I also wonder how many of the "ranged caster (sorcs) magicka users / nukers" (no, I did not even mention DKs, because DKs is only the inevitable next step) have also tried to play melee / physical damage classes / builds, based on stamina, and make it all the way well into the VR ranks / levels.

I would very gladly welcome comments and honest opinions on the outcome when you would compare the above. Since it is a common secret, the second category is more or less a farce and totally lacking in either dps, survivability and playability. Ah, you could also add the melee , stamina based, "tank" builds to this too.

I did exactly that on my sorc. When I started the game, I decided to play how I do every Elder Scrolls game: Medium armor, one handed wep (not possible in this game so I went with DW), and destruction magic: an "Arcane Assasin." It seemed that the sorc was the choice for me at start, and it went great all the way until Vet-2, when I started getting my face smashed in. I realized that in veteran zones, the spamming of CC is crucial to survive, and all CC abilities (save the one in Two-Handed) use magicka. So, I had to switch to the traditional cloth wearing caster class Just to progress in the game, and I hate it.

Yup same here. I refuse to play a caster/majic user and the class balance issues are minor compared to the fact that "playing how you want" means playing a mage of some type to get through even the most basic solo PvE content without dying consistently.

It's by far the most unbalanced aspect of PvE,

Talmet

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Unless there is some magic switch that gets flipped at VR10, my dual-wield/bow Nightblade will still be doing just fine when I get to trials.

I honestly cannot comprehend the minds of people who sit at spreadsheets all day deciding whether or not the numbers for one class look shinier than the numbers for another. I have fun playing my Nightblade. I enjoy the game. I have always held my own in groups because I don't try to play my class like I'm a WoW-Rogue-clone.

The problem is a good majority of the nightblades do play their toon like a WoW-Rogue-clone (whiner mentality and all). Problem with this is that it makes all nightblades look like they have no concept of how THIS game's mechanics work. This makes it harder to get into groups for the good nightblades because the entire class has a bad rap.

The problem is that the game wasn't clear at get go that stamina based abilities aren't meant to be your main abilities. (The game is designed this way. Every classes core skills are magicka.) Now we have a lot of nightblades and even templars (two classes which the core abilities are lackluster, for whatever reason) that were using stamina based weapons to level 1-50, get punched in the face because VR levels is where the game finally lets you know that stamina abilities are supplementary.

DISCLAIMER: Yes, the nightblade is a broken class, however it can still be effective.

DISCLAIMER 2: Yes, templar class abilities are subpar, but it can still be effective.

Am I the only one who balances my magicka and stamina abilities so that I have pretty much constant use of my whole hotbar?

There are so many Nightblade/medium armor passives designed to help with a medium armor melee-stealth build like this, that I don't see how people couldn't get it. I have passives and ability morphs that give a huge boost to my stamina regen, so when I'm done hitting the boss with Rapid Strikes/Blood Craze, I can hit a couple of my Shadow abilities/Focused Attacks and go right back to spamming my weapon abilities.

This isn't rocket science. I figured out how to use these mechanics as soon as I hit VR, and I have never theorycrafted (because spreadsheets make me angry).

I agree with you completely, I don't play a nightblade, but i do play a templar. (Same ocean, different boat and all that).

It seems to me that people's biggest complaints about the 2 classes always ends up coming back to stamina abilities. (DW/Bow for nightblade and SnS/2H for templar).

I have tried over and over to explain that the game was never meant for pure stamina builds. It's not the way it was designed.

However, the play the way you want crowd continues to misinterpret that as "even if they randomly chose skills cuz pretty, they are somehow going to as effective as someone who planned and synergized every ability combination."

rofl, very true....I always like those comments, they make me smile every time.

I think the problem is lack of reading comprehension. "Play as you want" means that you can play as you want. There is nothing in that statement that explicitly or implicitly states that you will be as effective in any build, or that all builds will result in equal DPS/HPS/DTPS...

if you want to play as a full heavy armor wearing, 2 hand wielding, all class skill using character that is totally focused on stamina. You can. You'll suck, but you can play like that if you want to.

deathperadoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Ye, too bad people tried to play Elder Scrolls game here, where you can choose instead of using one or two "builds". So far for flexibility and diversity.

You can choose any build you want. If you want to be competitive, and have a really good build...yes, there are only a few builds that fill that category.

That was also true in every other ES game...i.e. if you wanted to make the most powerful character in skyrim, you used a physical bow/2hand/dw. Destro magicka completely sucks in the vanilla version of the game (-spell cost vs +damage, towards the end of the game, a single heavy attack with a sword deals more damage than any spell). And the conjured versions of the weapons can not compare to a fully forged & enchanted physical weapon.

In every RPG ever made, there are "good" builds and "bad" builds. If you play single player ones, you might not notice that your build is one of the "bad" ones...but that doesn't change the fact that it's a "bad" build.

moXrox

Jeddahwe wrote: »

..Buff NB+Templar DPS ASAP especially the caster/destruction staff variants!

Stamina melee and bow builds need a buff not the already powerful staves.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

Oh yay another nerf dk thread. Will you people get over yourselves its not dk its staff and light armor.

Reykice

The OP needs to learn to play. There i said it.

Most people die with their class then go OMG the other dude made it past the NPC`s that killed me, his class must be OP!

Truth is, usually he is just a better player using a better spec. I always see other players obliterated by things i can solo with ease...

The clear answer here is: Get a clue. If you ever played Skyrim on Master difficulty you should do fine here... if you play all your games on the easy setting you will die here until you learn to play.

Stop asking them to change the game just because you are getting killed, there are enough people of any class at VR12 doing just fine... so the problem is you, not the class and not the game... just you.

Had to be said... as i`m getting tired of the threads where Mr. Noob decides the class is bad, or the game, or melee, or the ranged weapon... anything but himself is bad.. he can`t be bad he is the ultimate gamer.

Laura

Jeddahwe wrote: »

Well its happening, DK and Sorcerers are pulling ahead in DPS and able to solo 12 man content...Go to starting zones and guess what you see? an army of purple pets and spiked backs (DK armor buff)!

This game is at a turning point...Buff NB+Templar DPS ASAP especially the caster/destruction staff variants!

I know its not that simple but whats happening now is your classical new MMO life cycle GUYS this is a sub based MMO people who stop paying will be paying a sub to WoW and you will lose them for months if not a full year!

are you talking about the sorc that was soloing the four man quests in craglorn? or is there a sorc actually soloing trials? if so I'd love to see the video I want to try

hk11

All of the arguments against seem to be that you need to research and then go ahead and build a cloth wearing staff wielder.

Apparently you need to L2P your class, which means go ahead and build a cloth wearing staff wielder.

Those classes are fine as long as you go ahead and build...

Reykice

hk11 wrote: »

All of the arguments against seem to be that you need to research and then go ahead and build a cloth wearing staff wielder.

Melee builds work too, you just need to be a better player... its the same in every mmo... ranged is safe, melee is usually harder.

hk11

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

hk11 wrote: »

All of the arguments against seem to be that you need to research and then go ahead and build a cloth wearing staff wielder.

Melee builds work too, you just need to be a better player... its the same in every mmo... ranged is safe, melee is usually harder.

Yeah you can do OK as a Melee, but after a while it's just easier and faster to use the game mechanics that are available instead of fighting against it.

NerfEverything

As a VR12 Templar, I have a lot of trouble getting trials groups. I see people LFM in zone chat, send a tell with class/spec, and 90% of the time the response is "oh sorry we just got a DK/Sorc".

I don't have a VR12 NB, but from what I am seeing, they are having a lot of trouble finding trial groups also.

To everyone who is telling OP to learn to play.... this is not an issue with skill or ability. This is an issue with obviously broken classes.

Whether you want to admit it or not, DKs and Sorcs are the preferred classes at VR12. You can't blame players for wanting to max/min their time in trials. The best way to do that is load up on Sorcs/DKs.

I don't want to see DKs nerfed at all. I think Sorcs are where they should be right now. NBs need their skills fixed and I think they will be close to where they should be.

Templars need a lot of work. I won't go into details, there are many other threads that outline the problem very well. Resource management and skill symmetry are the core problems. Nerfing the other classes won't solve these problems, and they aren't fixes as simple as damage buffs or cost reductions

Tootall2186

Don't mind me, just your wondering Templar with my resto staff... *poke*...*poke*... is this how you hit stuff?

PrimalShadeCG

Jeddahwe wrote: »

Well its happening, DK and Sorcerers are pulling ahead in DPS and able to solo 12 man content...Go to starting zones and guess what you see? an army of purple pets and spiked backs (DK armor buff)!

This game is at a turning point...Buff NB+Templar DPS ASAP especially the caster/destruction staff variants!

I know its not that simple but whats happening now is your classical new MMO life cycle GUYS this is a sub based MMO people who stop paying will be paying a sub to WoW and you will lose them for months if not a full year!

I was with you untill you said buff caster/destruction staff varriants,if anything melee weapon damage and stamina based builds need to come up to par with magika damage and magika based builds.

Talmet

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

Most people die with their class then go OMG the other dude made it past the NPC`s that killed me, his class must be OP!

Truth is, usually he is just a better player using a better spec. I always see other players obliterated by things i can solo with ease...

lol, completely true. This morning I was running around on my vet 2 NB, a templar was near me & got killed by a group of 2 mobs. I killed the group (as they were in the way of the quest) & continued on...a few seconds later I got a tell from the templar accusing me of playing "one of those stupidly OP classes"...

yes, because a NB is totally OP. His death couldn't possibly be caused by him standing in the huge red circle around a storm caster mob, it was obviously caused by the templar class sucking and the NB class being OP.

Epona222

YES YES Nerf everything! Nerf everything so that it's all mediocre.

/sarcasm

Tyr

Epona222 wrote: »

YES YES Nerf everything! Nerf everything so that it's all mediocre.

/sarcasm

Lol funny enough, actually nerfing ALL class skill trees to be on par with weapon skills would go a long way to improving the balance of this game in favor of stamina builds and simultaneously make class balance problems less significant.

At first I didn't understand the camp of players who were upset with having classes in the game, but now(even though there are obviously downsides) completely eliminating class restrictions would be the far more balanced.

grizzbi

DK are not playing the same game...
Sorc can be frustrating (but probably not OP) in PvP. But that's expected!

That said, NB can solo Craglorn too.

The problem is not here. As I explained in the above discussion, a few skills and synergies need to be adjusted. After that it will be easier to monitor class balance. And do the appropriate adjustments.

I hope that Zenimax is watching.

Dag86novanub19_ESO

I play a Templar healer and my dps is fine enough to solo. I can rip some enemies pretty handily outside of areas intended for grouping. Even some of those I can solo carefully

flguy147ub17_ESO

NordJitsu wrote: »

The same kind of trash clearing you see with Sorcs and DKs is possible with Templar's and NBs. Most of it has nothing to do with the classes.

People are using Volcanic Rune, Pulsar/Elemental Ring, and Inner Light. Those are open to every class. That leaves you two slots to play with which may or may not be class abilities.

For a Sorc, you'll probably put Critical Surge in there and maybe Boundless Storm or Dark Exchange. For a DK you'll put Burning Talons and maybe Inferno, Cinder Storm, Fragmented Shield, Dragon's Blood, or Molten Armaments (DKs have the most options.)

As a Templar, you'll fill it out with Solar Barrage and Blazing Shield. Solar Barrage is just as good as Pulsar on its own and it has the added benefit of increasing weapon and spell power. That means you just alternate between the two and your Pulsar will hit much harder (hardest hitting Pulsar in the game.) You can also use Explosive Charge as a gap closer/opener for the Pulsar spam.

As a Night Blade, you'll use Sap Essence and Siphoning Attacks. Sap Essence will add to your AoE, increase the power of your Impulse, and give you and your group some healing. Siphoning Attacks will slightly lower your DPS in the short run (but this is counter balanced by Sap Essence) but since you'll have the greatest resource upkeep of the 4 classes your overall DPS will actually be the best since you'll never be OOM.

As a Sorc, I use one class skill for this (Crit Surge) and I'd actually rather have some of the options available to the other classes.

Anyone can do it guys. Its not a class thing.

The problem with those abilities everybody can use is that they are pretty much all Mage type of abilities. Many players have zero interest in playing a Mage type of character. But Zos sold everybody on play how you like, and yes you can but at the cost of being gimp. And I am a DK Mage Vamp fwiw. But I play melee classes in every MMO until this one and its because its not as effective. What if I want to play a Berserker type with mainly stamina, well I cant and be effective. Its fine I will just keep 1 vs 4 in PVP and owning. Which in the end destroys the game and loses subs.

Tabbycat

I chose Sorcerer because I wanted to use a bow and have a permanent pet. Sorc is the only class that allows you to do that.

khele23eb17_ESO

What are you talking about OP?! It has lots of classes!

...all of them robe wearing, staff waving mages -_-

AltusVenifus

Although buffing magicka skills is idiotic, he does have a point about NB and Templars. My guild started with 150 players, split fairly evenly, we are down to about 100 players with like 7 NB and 15 Temps, the rest are all Sorcs and DKs.