Dk/Sorc Only trial groups (no room for temp/nb)

Phantorang

TB1234 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

SirPuppingtonVonHat wrote: »

How exactly is Quick Siphon bugged/exploitable?

It supposedly makes all heals +100% so your resto staff heals for example will be hitting for double. Haven't seen it myself as it definitely does not work with critical surge heals.

It is actually far more game breaking then that

The fastest way to get stuff like that fixed, is for it to get known by as many as possible. To many are keeping bugs and exploits for themselves without reporting them or share them with the community, in the hopes that it will never get fixed and to use them actively for as long as possible and preferably indefinitely, that makes it exploiting imo, its ALOT of players in that category.

When Quick Siphon gets fixed we will see alot of drama in these forums about how the game and DK/Sorc is now unplayable etc etc....

Anarchy Online,this is just the same, never seen this many gamebreaking bugs since that game. It also got released way to early cuz of restless investors who thought "A game is a game, who cares if it works as long as we get our money", but they lose alot in the long run with this much bad publicity.

WilliamTee

zgrssd wrote: »

WilliamTee wrote: »

i will admit as a melee-focused NB I feel a little... well, pants, in trials.

Sure, I can take an add to pieces in seconds... But who cares when i have to spend a large portion of boss fights stood on the others side of the room twanging away with my bow... which has skills largely useless against bosses.

The job of the DPS is to take down important enemies (healers, ranged, other adds) fast, so they stop being a problem (healing the enemies or doing more DPS then the healer can heal).
After the first high priority targets, not taking too much damage, interrupting, ressing downed allies and doing sustained damage is the goal.
Nothing it quite as good at that first part as a Nightblade Shadow DPS.
And it is not like the NB has no Skills that could be used for Ranged DPS. Siphoning strikes for example can be very usefull for DPS that are based around mana/stamina expensive abilties.

Oh hells yeah, on add packs I can excel. Locate the healer, lock them in CC and slice them down...

But I've struggled on the boss fights so far, switching between DW and Bow with the awful response times on weapon swaps... and would honestly feel like a group might be justified chucking me for another class.

Siphoning strikes is nice for a recharge, but the drop in DPS is hefty.

Yes, NB DPS can play a role... but the reality is the strengths of other classes can make that role almost redundant.

I'll stick to it in the hopes our time in the sun is approaching... (no pun intended)

TB1234

Phantorang wrote: »

TB1234 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

SirPuppingtonVonHat wrote: »

How exactly is Quick Siphon bugged/exploitable?

It supposedly makes all heals +100% so your resto staff heals for example will be hitting for double. Haven't seen it myself as it definitely does not work with critical surge heals.

It is actually far more game breaking then that

The fastest way to get stuff like that fixed, is for it to get known by as many as possible. To many are keeping bugs and exploits for themselves without reporting them or share them with the community, in the hopes that it will never get fixed and to use them actively for as long as possible and preferably indefinitely, that makes it exploiting imo, its ALOT of players in that category.

When Quick Siphon gets fixed we will see alot of drama in these forums about how the game and DK/Sorc is now unplayable etc etc....

Anarchy Online,this is just the same, never seen this many gamebreaking bugs since that game. It also got released way to early cuz of restless investors who thought "A game is a game, who cares if it works as long as we get our money", but they lose alot in the long run with this much bad publicity.

Ok you have convinced me. And Please bug this in game and pass this on to a moderator. Only the morph of quick siphon works. If you cast it on anything and are around 20-30m of it will get you 100% on ALL your SELF heals. It is also really buggy and can grant other people 100% heals occasionally. Not only does it do this but it allows you to heal through spell symmetry without waiting for the 3-4sec self healing debuff (giving every class infinite mana). And if this were not enough it works on every dot,proc,burning.... everything so dk's and sorcs get massive heals off it. And oh did i mention you can stack it with other players.

Please pass this on to get fixed asap

Erock25

TB1234 wrote: »

And if this were not enough it works on every dot,proc,burning.... everything so dk's and sorcs get massive heals off it.

I'm wondering what DOTs Sorc have? It seems to be a misunderstanding from a lot of people that Sorc was abusing this and elemental drain when in reality sorc has zero class dots.

TB1234

Erock25 wrote: »

TB1234 wrote: »

And if this were not enough it works on every dot,proc,burning.... everything so dk's and sorcs get massive heals off it.

I'm wondering what DOTs Sorc have? It seems to be a misunderstanding from a lot of people that Sorc was abusing this and elemental drain when in reality sorc has zero class dots.

burning procs, any procs, any damage, (ae's that hit multple mobs with multiple quick siphons on board),every tick of lightning splash, every tick of lighting form. entropy Sorcs have many damage over time skills with lots of ticks.

subecsanur

DeLindsay wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Anyone saying Templars are not needed in end game raids/groups don't know what they are talking about. There is no class you will depend more on to survive and get enough group DPS from other than Templars.

Have you even looked at the leaderboards? Because I'd wager the top guilds who are completing Trials faster than ANYONE else would say Templars are basically useless in ESO raids atm. Now, I did say they are taking a token Templar didn't I, and the leaderboards show that. Unfortunately for the "completely useless" category right now it's NB

Yes, the groups that even include that 1 templars is not for a healer, its for "multipurpose / tank" in other words to tank and heal if need, sorcs imo are the current trend group healers and having more that 1 of them that can also dish out dps is what is the trend now.

Nuitar

I'm a NB and I've completed AA via a trials PUG that accepted me. There are some correlations with not accepting nightblades that unfortunately group leaders make, that have little to do with nightblade actually being a bad *class*.

Rather, nightblades generally invest in useless weapon lines:

-Bow dps in subpar to RESTORATION STAFF (lol?)
-Dual wield us subpar to destro for AOE and destro/resto for single target

I run a resto nightblade and can easily pull 500+ DPS single target with light armor / spell crit and have the same DPS as sorcs while AOEing with my destro staff. I can also heal as well as a sorc and pop a 60% mitigation ult.

The issue is that people jump to conclusions on build. I dont blame them...dual wield and bow are really useless at the moment in the trials boss fights.

Eivar

Nuitar wrote: »

I'm a NB and I've completed AA via a trials PUG that accepted me. There are some correlations with not accepting nightblades that unfortunately group leaders make, that have little to do with nightblade actually being a bad *class*.

Rather, nightblades generally invest in useless weapon lines:

-Bow dps in subpar to RESTORATION STAFF (lol?)
-Dual wield us subpar to destro for AOE and destro/resto for single target

I run a resto nightblade and can easily pull 500+ DPS single target with light armor / spell crit and have the same DPS as sorcs while AOEing with my destro staff. I can also heal as well as a sorc and pop a 60% mitigation ult.

The issue is that people jump to conclusions on build. I dont blame them...dual wield and bow are really useless at the moment in the trials boss fights.

This is true, but the fact remains that builds based around those weapons should be just as viable in their own way, add in a ton of broken abilities, no defensive capabilities and extremely minimal self heals(especially for a class with a skill line called siphoning, one self heal that only applies a dot? lulz.) also the only synergies a nb has are ult based.

basically all stamina based skills are severely underpowered, to the point that anyone running a stamina build is going to be behind the curve when it comes to dps, weapon skills need a serious rework to make them viable over light armor magicka builds.

i don't think a NB should be able to do the same kind of aoe as a sorc if they play a stamina build, i DO believe they should be able to hop in and out of stealth and tear apart mobs quicker than anyone else, they'd be helpful in aoe but really shine on bosses and high health mobs.

Trokarr

I will just leave this here:

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/dk-solos-craglorn/

Phantorang

TB1234 wrote: »

Ok you have convinced me. And Please bug this in game and pass this on to a moderator. Only the morph of quick siphon works. If you cast it on anything and are around 20-30m of it will get you 100% on ALL your SELF heals. It is also really buggy and can grant other people 100% heals occasionally. Not only does it do this but it allows you to heal through spell symmetry without waiting for the 3-4sec self healing debuff (giving every class infinite mana). And if this were not enough it works on every dot,proc,burning.... everything so dk's and sorcs get massive heals off it. And oh did i mention you can stack it with other players.

Please pass this on to get fixed asap

WoW! Now I know how some guys I know power leveled through the game in no time. And it has been like this since beta I guess, I dont know how well guarded this bug has been, but well enough for me to learn this now.

wrlifeboil

TB1234 wrote: »

Anyone also having issues finding competitive groups for the trials as a templar or nb? As of now the best trial groups are dk/sorc only groups with quick siphon bug/exploit have insane healing without losing dps. Ive been kicked out of two trial groups as a templar so far.

This templar/nb second class citizen stuff has to end. Let me know if anyone else is having issues with this

If this is true, really bad game/class design.

Of course if I were a raid leader going for the top times, I'd exclude the gimped class(es) too. It would just be wisely playing the cards that the dealer (ZOS) dealt.

EliteZ

This is the case with every MMO available and no matter how balanced the classes are, one class is always going to have that advantage over the others no matter what. Therefore, the players that want to do everything as best as possible are not going to think twice about the other classes.

Look at GW2, there was a stage you had to be Mesmer, then Warrior then Guardian etc etc. People don't want to take longer then needed doing something when they can do it that second later. It's not an issue with ESO, it's an issue with MMO's and the community that plays the game. Just like, again with GW2, players would kick you from the group if you didn't want to skip every possible mob in the dungeon just to save them those few extra seconds.

However, I do agree class balance is a bit off at the moment, but again with every game, there are always classes that are more OP then others especially at launch or a new class being added.

wrlifeboil

EliteZ wrote: »

This is the case with every MMO available and no matter how balanced the classes are, one class is always going to have that advantage over the others no matter what. Therefore, the players that want to do everything as best as possible are not going to think twice about the other classes.

Look at GW2, there was a stage you had to be Mesmer, then Warrior then Guardian etc etc. People don't want to take longer then needed doing something when they can do it that second later. It's not an issue with ESO, it's an issue with MMO's and the community that plays the game. Just like, again with GW2, players would kick you from the group if you didn't want to skip every possible mob in the dungeon just to save them those few extra seconds.

However, I do agree class balance is a bit off at the moment, but again with every game, there are always classes that are more OP then others especially at launch or a new class being added.

The problem in eso is that:

1) there are only four classes; if one is gimped, assuming players are spread evenly among all classes, then it affect 25% of the players;

2) ZOS in its infinite wisdom created VR levels; that is a huge nearly locked gate to level up alts of different classes

The design flaws really show when it affects so many players and those players have very few alternatives to get around the bad design.

EliteZ

wrlifeboil wrote: »

EliteZ wrote: »

This is the case with every MMO available and no matter how balanced the classes are, one class is always going to have that advantage over the others no matter what. Therefore, the players that want to do everything as best as possible are not going to think twice about the other classes.

Look at GW2, there was a stage you had to be Mesmer, then Warrior then Guardian etc etc. People don't want to take longer then needed doing something when they can do it that second later. It's not an issue with ESO, it's an issue with MMO's and the community that plays the game. Just like, again with GW2, players would kick you from the group if you didn't want to skip every possible mob in the dungeon just to save them those few extra seconds.

However, I do agree class balance is a bit off at the moment, but again with every game, there are always classes that are more OP then others especially at launch or a new class being added.

The problem in eso is that:

1) there are only four classes; if one is gimped, assuming players are spread evenly among all classes, then it affect 25% of the players;

2) ZOS in its infinite wisdom created VR levels; that is a huge nearly locked gate to level up alts of different classes

The design flaws really show when it affects so many players and those players have very few alternatives to get around the bad design.

1. It doesn't matter if it affects 90% of the players or 10%, people are still going to complain "My class is the gimped class BUFF US NOW!" or "omg I can't get in a group because I choose to play X class".

2. VR lvls are no different then lvling from 1-60 in another game. Vanilla WoW took a long time to lvl, just because they stick VR on it doesn't make it some super evil lvling tool that prevents anyone from making an alt or reaching max lvl, it just takes slightly longer which is a welcomed feature compared to these other games where you hit max lvl within days.

3. It's not a design flaw, it's a few bugged skills that they have already said they are working on and a few other OP skills that need to be toned down. First it was "OMG NERF VAMPS THEY ARE OP" then "DK are way OP" and "Sorc are so OP NERF THEM NOW!". I've seen videos of nightblades soloing vet dungeons. If they was really that bad, they'd be unable to do that, wouldn't they?

Yeah, so some classes are not as OP as others and maybe a lot of the current max lvl players are the elitist part of the community that want to do everything as fast as possible and be the best doing it, but more players will reach VR12 and it'll be more casual, every video I've watched of a trails run (mainly on twitch) has actually had equal or more NB's and Templars then DK's. I was watching one group yesterday with 2 DK's and 4 NBs. So no, not every group will kick you just because you're not a DK or Templar.People are always going to cry if their class is not the strongest.

wrlifeboil

EliteZ wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

EliteZ wrote: »

This is the case with every MMO available and no matter how balanced the classes are, one class is always going to have that advantage over the others no matter what. Therefore, the players that want to do everything as best as possible are not going to think twice about the other classes.

Look at GW2, there was a stage you had to be Mesmer, then Warrior then Guardian etc etc. People don't want to take longer then needed doing something when they can do it that second later. It's not an issue with ESO, it's an issue with MMO's and the community that plays the game. Just like, again with GW2, players would kick you from the group if you didn't want to skip every possible mob in the dungeon just to save them those few extra seconds.

However, I do agree class balance is a bit off at the moment, but again with every game, there are always classes that are more OP then others especially at launch or a new class being added.

The problem in eso is that:

1) there are only four classes; if one is gimped, assuming players are spread evenly among all classes, then it affect 25% of the players;

2) ZOS in its infinite wisdom created VR levels; that is a huge nearly locked gate to level up alts of different classes

The design flaws really show when it affects so many players and those players have very few alternatives to get around the bad design.

1. It doesn't matter if it affects 90% of the players or 10%, people are still going to complain "My class is the gimped class BUFF US NOW!" or "omg I can't get in a group because I choose to play X class".

2. VR lvls are no different then lvling from 1-60 in another game. Vanilla WoW took a long time to lvl, just because they stick VR on it doesn't make it some super evil lvling tool that prevents anyone from making an alt or reaching max lvl, it just takes slightly longer which is a welcomed feature compared to these other games where you hit max lvl within days.

3. It's not a design flaw, it's a few bugged skills that they have already said they are working on and a few other OP skills that need to be toned down. First it was "OMG NERF VAMPS THEY ARE OP" then "DK are way OP" and "Sorc are so OP NERF THEM NOW!". I've seen videos of nightblades soloing vet dungeons. If they was really that bad, they'd be unable to do that, wouldn't they?

Yeah, so some classes are not as OP as others and maybe a lot of the current max lvl players are the elitist part of the community that want to do everything as fast as possible and be the best doing it, but more players will reach VR12 and it'll be more casual, every video I've watched of a trails run (mainly on twitch) has actually had equal or more NB's and Templars then DK's. I was watching one group yesterday with 2 DK's and 4 NBs. So no, not every group will kick you just because you're not a DK or Templar.People are always going to cry if their class is not the strongest.

It was not difficult to get to level 60 in vanilla WoW. I actually liked questing in Eastern Plaguelands and when Eastern Plaguelands got tiresome, in Burning Steppes. See? Alternates. What was difficult or took a lot of time were attunements and rep requirements for raid instances. That's where the difficulty should be, in end game. Eso bad design.

JJDrakken

Team with me. We don't kick you out, unless your an idiot.

My normal self & groupmates would probably be considered a unwanted.

1. Sorc Tank
2. Resto/Destro DK Healer
3. Nightmage(blade) with staff) Vampire
4. Resto/Destro Templar(DPS/Debuffs)

The Nightmage Vampire(Destro Staff Nightblade). Is VR3, I haven't noticed any difference in the playing since patch. In fact I solo'd 2 mobs(2 mobs in half as other mob got drugged into my explosions, siphoning, etc..) in a row, with no down time, to show a fellow Nightblade I could. Because he didn't think I could.

My Sorc Tank is teamed with my friend's DK Healer. We are twin unit of pure fun, wreckage, & surviving.

Resto/Destro Templar is mine as well, he's teamed with a DK Tank, Sorc Vampire Archer. The only downtime we have is personal life stuff.

hk11

This wouldnt be a problem if the game was like Elder Scrolls. Start out as a prisoner and then just level whatever you want instead roles.

Or like FF where equiping a weapon determines what spec you are. That would be awesome in a game that didnt suck like FF.

WilliamTee

Perhaps it's like others have suggested... maybe the problem is we're actually playing Elder Staffs Online and someone forgot to mention this to some of us

Resto/Destro seems to be the way to go... and guess who has practically zero in both. boohoo.

Tootall2186

DeLindsay wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Where you got this info from? A raid without Templars is not a solid raid.

Templars have unique key abilities that are needed in 12 mans (and especially 24 mans in the future). I just need to mention dispel, backlash, stamina/magicka regen for group through synergy and so forth.

Templars also make the best healers in the game with 2x healing passives (resto staff + restoring light) and better healing combinations to choose from than any other class.


Templars are extremely underrated.

Sorcs are the preferred healers in speed trials atm because they are superior to Templars in AOE healing, and since all the DK's are stacked that's all they need. Non-Templars have a dispel also, they just have to talent into it. Magicka regen can be covered by non-Templars also.

Right now the entire game is horribly unbalanced and it seems everyone BUT ZoS realizes that. If ZoS does see it they sure are slow on the take in tweaking classes, they seem rather more focused on bringing out new (and completely full of exploits/bugs) content. I do agree that a raid should have a good balance of all classes, unfortunately until ZoS does something about it this won't happen. Raids will take whatever is the flavor of the moment that gets the job done the fastest, and that's mostly DK's with a few Sorcs and maybe a Token Templar, sorry NB

Sorry but no one can out aoe heal a Templar... Not sure where you're getting that info from. Sorcs have no healing line outside of the resto staff.

I'd love to hear how people think sorcs can out aoe heal a Templar. I'm honestly intrigued and kind of baffled by how ridiculous that statement is.

JJDrakken

Tootall2186 wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Where you got this info from? A raid without Templars is not a solid raid.

Templars have unique key abilities that are needed in 12 mans (and especially 24 mans in the future). I just need to mention dispel, backlash, stamina/magicka regen for group through synergy and so forth.

Templars also make the best healers in the game with 2x healing passives (resto staff + restoring light) and better healing combinations to choose from than any other class.


Templars are extremely underrated.

Sorcs are the preferred healers in speed trials atm because they are superior to Templars in AOE healing, and since all the DK's are stacked that's all they need. Non-Templars have a dispel also, they just have to talent into it. Magicka regen can be covered by non-Templars also.

Right now the entire game is horribly unbalanced and it seems everyone BUT ZoS realizes that. If ZoS does see it they sure are slow on the take in tweaking classes, they seem rather more focused on bringing out new (and completely full of exploits/bugs) content. I do agree that a raid should have a good balance of all classes, unfortunately until ZoS does something about it this won't happen. Raids will take whatever is the flavor of the moment that gets the job done the fastest, and that's mostly DK's with a few Sorcs and maybe a Token Templar, sorry NB

Sorry but no one can out aoe heal a Templar... Not sure where you're getting that info from. Sorcs have no healing line outside of the resto staff.

I'd love to hear how people think sorcs can out aoe heal a Templar. I'm honestly intrigued and kind of baffled by how ridiculous that statement is.

It's not out healing part, it's fact they bring in more CC/Mitigation then I believe a Templar would. That's my theory.

Plus they get the power to consume their stamina to charge up their mana/health. Combine that with Mage's guild power that consumes life to charge up Mana/Stam.

Just saying...

Here is an example build: Right Here

fyrefenix

i dub this game, the elder mages online! -featuring archers

fyrefenix

mean while when two veteran 4 beetles are too much for a nerfed templar to handle

JJDrakken

Just look at the link I provided for an example. Do I agree with it, over a Templar, -shrugs- Hell my buddy plays a Dragon Knight Healer.

Tootall2186

JJDrakken wrote: »

Tootall2186 wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Where you got this info from? A raid without Templars is not a solid raid.

Templars have unique key abilities that are needed in 12 mans (and especially 24 mans in the future). I just need to mention dispel, backlash, stamina/magicka regen for group through synergy and so forth.

Templars also make the best healers in the game with 2x healing passives (resto staff + restoring light) and better healing combinations to choose from than any other class.


Templars are extremely underrated.

Sorcs are the preferred healers in speed trials atm because they are superior to Templars in AOE healing, and since all the DK's are stacked that's all they need. Non-Templars have a dispel also, they just have to talent into it. Magicka regen can be covered by non-Templars also.

Right now the entire game is horribly unbalanced and it seems everyone BUT ZoS realizes that. If ZoS does see it they sure are slow on the take in tweaking classes, they seem rather more focused on bringing out new (and completely full of exploits/bugs) content. I do agree that a raid should have a good balance of all classes, unfortunately until ZoS does something about it this won't happen. Raids will take whatever is the flavor of the moment that gets the job done the fastest, and that's mostly DK's with a few Sorcs and maybe a Token Templar, sorry NB

Sorry but no one can out aoe heal a Templar... Not sure where you're getting that info from. Sorcs have no healing line outside of the resto staff.

I'd love to hear how people think sorcs can out aoe heal a Templar. I'm honestly intrigued and kind of baffled by how ridiculous that statement is.

It's not out healing part, it's fact they bring in more CC/Mitigation then I believe a Templar would. That's my theory.

Plus they get the power to consume their stamina to charge up their mana/health. Combine that with Mage's guild power that consumes life to charge up Mana/Stam.

Just saying...

Here is an example build: Right Here

Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that Templars can out dps or out cc any other class. I'm actually glad we can't, but I like playing a healer.

As for healing and healing alone, a healer specced Templar will drastically put heal any other class with ease. With all our +healing passives and the passives on the resto staff and sets like Sanctuary and the like. You simply cannot out heal a Templar is a healing battle. Plus with the resto staff heavy attack regen being what it is atm magicka regen isn't a problem in the slightest. Only time it's a problem is if you have incompetent group members not avoiding obvious aoes and making us use our big heals more than we have to.

As for the dps and cc site of the conversation. Sorc takes cc and ranged dps hands down. But I think that's how it should be.

Veakoth

fun fact, we cleared both trials with heal templar using a build that only uses 2 templar skills, 1 resto skill, 2 mages guild skills and 3 alliance war skills (that's both skill bars)

RedTalon

I think most of the PTS guys have favored Sorcs and DRagon knights seem to be the issue, only know a couple who do nightblade stuff personally.

That sort of is an issue don't thionk two classess had enough testing.

Ashlynne

monkeymystic wrote: »

If a Templar joins my group I am happy.
I would never trade a Templar healer out for anything else, never.
They also have group utility that will help lots, which none of the other classes have.

One of the strongest VR 12 players I know, especially in PvP, is actually a Templar.

It is often because of a bad build.
Try this one if your struggle as a Templar: (the build has 4 pages)

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/98656/templar-with-destro-resto-this-is-the-build-with-everything-kills-anyone-in-6-seconds-guaranteed/p1

I absolutely agree with you.

- Ashmaya