Stop Raising the Level Cap

LIQUID741

Maverick827 wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

Please do not listen to OP. This is his first MMORPG

What other AAA MMORPG increases the level cap every few months?

Owned...

Haxer

I completely agree with horizontal expansion. Right now there isn't much to do except hop on and grind quests. I understand the need to add end-game content quickly to address the characters that are there already, but they need to add horizontal content to enjoy all the way up the tree, not just at the end.

-Guild halls/players housing (instanced not static)
-Guild functionality
-cosmetic gear options (why is 100% of light armor a gryffindor robe?)
-Thieves Guild/Dark brotherhood

Some of these are already in the works, but you get the idea. They need to add sideways content for all, and not only keep throwing vertical content at the end, pushing it farther back.

Gisgo

Raising the cap so early doesnt help getting new players, either.

DeLindsay

They haven't increased the level cap at all, it's still 50. For those of you who STILL don't get it, Veteran Ranks are the same as tiered gear progression from other MMO's. The difference in ESO is the devs made it less of a gear "grind" like other MMO's.

For example, in most MMO's you hit level cap and craft half of your epic gear (welfare epics) then spend a few days grinding the highest level dungeon for the last few drops you need to access the Expert dungeons. You then grind expert dungeons for days to weeks until you finally have enough gear to progress to T1 - 10man Raids, where you spend SEVERAL weeks grinding gear to progress to the next higher tier of Raids, etc for MONTHS.

ESO has that same concept but in a single Veteran Rank, each time you rank up you get access to better gear to help you progress to the next better gear, etc. There is no need to "grind" anything since it's absurdly easy to blow through Veteran Ranks to current cap.

Gisgo

DeLindsay wrote: »

They haven't increased the level cap at all, it's still 50. For those of you who STILL don't get it, Veteran Ranks are the same as tiered gear progression from other MMO's. The difference in ESO is the devs made it less of a gear "grind" like other MMO's.

Call it level or veteran rank or gear upgrade its still vertical progression.

NordJitsu

@DeLindsay‌

Except Veteran Ranks also give you hard stat increases...so....

Gimick

High level glyphs that are dropping say they are good for gear Vet 10 to Vet 14. If you go into the group finder and group for Craglorn questing, it says the content is Vet 1 to Vet 15.

Both hints that more raising of the level caps are planned and in the near future.

concobar

I logged in the day of the patch and saw a number of people who were already vet13.....

DeLindsay

NordJitsu wrote: »

@DeLindsay‌

Except Veteran Ranks also give you hard stat increases...so....

Yeah your right, that 10 Magicka, 10 Stamina and 1 to regen is a HUGE level cap increase per VR

Gisgo

Yeah but the empty map was the biggest hint, imho.
So many weekends wasted on xp instead of patroling Cyrodiil

NordJitsu

@DeLindsay‌

So your argument is that its a small and statistically insignificant increase that requires hours and hours of play for little actual gain?

Glad to see you agree with me.

Thalmar

They simply shouldn't arrange the pace of the content, Veteran Rank extension with the pace of exploiters or end-game rushers. The biggest amount of players will feel that they will never catch up with the content release speed and this will turn out most of the players, but hey isn't the MMOs biggest aim to satisfy the unsatisfied end-game consumers.

Facing a VR12 with your level 38 was not a fun experience. I stopped playing a couple of days ago because i know i will never be competitive in PvP again, there will always be stronger higher VR players as they increase level cap every month or so, maybe humor it is i heard they are planning to increase level cap to VR15 very soon.

NordJitsu

@Thalmar‌

I hope you don't quit playing. If ZOS gets enough constructive feedback on why this is a bad idea, they might hold off on increasing the VR for a while. Say what you want about these devs, but they do a good job of listening to feedback (much of the time at least.)

If they leave it at VR12 for a good long while, people like yourself might be able to catch up (or nearly catch up.)

There may be less of a difference between VR1 and VR10 than there is between level 49 and VR1 in PvP. As soon as you hit VR1, PvP will be much more fun.

lioslinn

When I see terms like work, optimization and ahead of the curve in a post, I seriously wonder... You do know this is a game yes?

I envision in my head someone going about their day thinking to themselves 'I am awesome! Because I'm top level, ahead of people and I beat the game!

To each their own play style obviously but that mental image makes me chuckle. I do understand pride in a mmo; in eq1 a few of us researched and eventually solve obcue quests that had never been solved. But to dash in the rat race? there is lots to do in game

Phaedryn

Not to mention what affect raising the level cap this often will have on PvP. You cannot run a DAoC RvR based/influenced PvP game and start raising the level cap ever 2 months, it will kill (what's left of) PvP, and for many of us that is the only reason we are here.

Mojomonkeyman

I`m deeply shocked by the amount of people who consider vertical grindfest a good thing just to see a level bar move a bit and feel they "improve" through that.

I never understood that, but I never even understood achievement hunters who invested hours and hours just to get a few letters telling them how special they are (alongside hundreds and thousands of other players...), or gear hunters who invested so much time just to show off a shiny pixel more. This sort of short time satisfaction is totally beyond me, reminds me of consume addicted housewifes in the western world.

You might say, thats not the right game for me then. But, unfortunately I happen to like the PvP in MMOs a lot.

Since they offer PvP I guess these games are aimed at more than one target customer. But some games are somewhat friendly to all its customers (horizontal progression after a certain point, the level cap) and some are not (the vertical progression ones).

I deeply hope, this game is focusing more on the horizontal progression in future because I won`t be trying to catch up to the next carrot on a stick every 2 months just to have even playing ground for my pvp.

I honestly don`t understand how someone can argue against the benefits of horizontal progression, as long as entertainment and progress is delivered via new content.

Regards

kasain

Take it to v25 by the console release.

Gisgo

Take it to 15 because i know you already wanted to get there, and stop!

Nomadh_ESO

I havent heard in age such jibberish and nonsense arguments defending constant level increase. If it was for me i would raise the cost of subscription to 30-40 euros per month so all those kids that 10 years ago didnt have access to the credit cards should stop playing and get their *** together and try playing again when they are a bit mature.

If, and only if, ESO heads in the direction of raising constantly VR cap this would reppresent the death of the MMORPG part of the game and confirm its already stated single to multiplayer conversion essence.

The same people that like the increase in level (aka DLC) will rush away from this game as soon as a new <insert fanboy Skyrim-like title> come out without having a slightest clue of how beautiful and fun can be to enjoy a MMORPG.

ItsMeToo

Keep adding levels and content. The more the better. There is no end game to me.

Thalmar

I am not as optimist as you are that devs taking constructive feedback, or i sould say yes they do but they change the content if they like the feedback, there is a nuance here. The first and the most important step of this "raising cap every month or so" was taking away the starting islands. I can easily bet every 4 players out of 5 was agree these zones should be skipable but they decided to do it for the sake of this 1 person out of 5. Maybe they covered it under the impresion of giving freedom but it showed their attitude and which crowd will they listen to, end-game consumers, rushers or the people who likes journey rather than the destination.

If you don't have a destination the journey is not fun either, i will not be the horse chasing the carrot as it seems the carrot will never be cought with this pace. As it mentioned before i will not continue to give my support if i don't see any horizontal improvement, such as adding more social aspects in regards of RP. Just enlarging cap limit so often means the game will never be competitive and elitists will win by big margin.

NordJitsu

@Phaedryn‌

That's really the main reason it matters to me personally. I feel like I have to be max level to compete in PvP at the level I want, but I don't want to constantly have to grind levels to be there.

Jeremy

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I`m deeply shocked by the amount of people who consider vertical grindfest a good thing just to see a level bar move a bit and feel they "improve" through that.

You shouldn't be shocked though. That is what RPG games are. What you call a grindfest is the reality of RPG gameplay.

They have always been about increasing your experience and making your character more powerful as a result while exploring a fantasy world. And it stands to reason that people who enjoy RPG gameplay would play RPG games.

To put it simply: we don't consider it a grind. We consider it fun.

This is an MMORPG after all. And if you don't like having to gain experience points and level up your character then RPG games are probably not a good choice of games.

Lodestar

Funny thing is, we are seeing the level cap go from 1-50 then VR ranks. So the levels effectively change.

I wonder if this is a temporary measure until 50- whatever comes out.

Nomadh_ESO

I completely disagree with you Jeremy, increasing level cap is one of hundred options to add content in an MMORPG. Developing skills and gaining experience in those is a completely different thing.

Jeremy

magellib16_ESO wrote: »

I completely disagree with you Jeremy, increasing level cap is one of hundred options to add content in an MMORPG. Developing skills and gaining experience in those is a completely different thing.

That is fine and you can completely disagree with me if you wish

But gaining levels and experience points has been a fundamental part of RPGs since they were invented. And I am comfortable with my position that people who do not enjoy leveling up their characters are playing the wrong type of game.

kasain

Hey if they make it Vet 25, by the time console comes out, my guess is those players will lose interest fast. They would have six months to climb a mountain to even compete against people in PvP.

Lodestar

Jeremy wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I`m deeply shocked by the amount of people who consider vertical grindfest a good thing just to see a level bar move a bit and feel they "improve" through that.

You shouldn't be shocked though. That is what RPG games are. What you call a grindfest is the reality of RPG gameplay.

They have always been about increasing your experience and making your character more powerful as a result while exploring a fantasy world. And it stands to reason that people who enjoy RPG gameplay would play RPG games.

To put it simply: we don't consider it a grind. We consider it fun.

This is an MMORPG after all. And if you don't like having to gain experience points and level up your character then RPG games are probably not a good choice of games.

Sorry, but I don;t agree with that at all. RPGs have been about immersing oneself in story, with levels and such being incidental. I never played Any RPG to get to max level, but to reach the end of the interactive story.

Jeremy

Lodestar wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I`m deeply shocked by the amount of people who consider vertical grindfest a good thing just to see a level bar move a bit and feel they "improve" through that.

You shouldn't be shocked though. That is what RPG games are. What you call a grindfest is the reality of RPG gameplay.

They have always been about increasing your experience and making your character more powerful as a result while exploring a fantasy world. And it stands to reason that people who enjoy RPG gameplay would play RPG games.

To put it simply: we don't consider it a grind. We consider it fun.

This is an MMORPG after all. And if you don't like having to gain experience points and level up your character then RPG games are probably not a good choice of games.

Sorry, but I don;t agree with that at all. RPGs have been about immersing oneself in story, with levels and such being incidental. I never played Any RPG to get to max level, but to reach the end of the interactive story.

I don't play RPGs to reach max level either. That wasn't my point.

One of the main reasons I enjoy RPG gameplay is so I can get experience and increase my character's effectiveness as a result. Leveling up is a core function of how that is handled. It's not just incidental from my point of view. In fact it's one of the most addictive qualities of an RPG game to me. Which is precisely why once I reach max level my interest in the game starts to wane.

I enjoy a good story too. But I also enjoy making my character more powerful by increasing his experience and gaining access to more powerful abilities. If all I want is a good story, I'll go buy a book.

Phantorang

Please raise the level cap in every patch, I really hope they patch in harder and harder content that demands higher level caps all the time.