New global cool-down on biting jabs is too much!

aleister

ZOS: did you really mean to nerf templars this hard? The 1+ second cool-down after biting jabs is killing us!

Zeeed

If i am not wrong its that OP spell that all templars just spam to kill world bosses ?? If so nerf well deserved.

aleister

The cool-down affects everything though. I might could buy a change that slowed down the ability spam this skill specifically, but not everything.

tinythinker

Zeeed wrote: »

If i am not wrong its that OP spell that all templars just spam to kill world bosses ?? If so nerf well deserved.

It costs too much to kill a world boss via spamming. You can hit it 4-5 times in a row for a DPS burst but you would then have no magicka left and would need to switch to a weapon or stamina based attack. The issue some people are reporting is a delay for activating *any* new attack after using biting jabs. Some don't see as much of a delay, some say it is taking well over a second. There is no information in the patch notes about biting jabs specifically or what was intended, nor any known pattern to who is affected by differences in delay length.

Mortosk

Post here:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/100485/was-biting-jabs-nerfed

Demand they hotfix this NOW. Or we are stuck like this for a week or more until they do another patch.

Mortosk

Zeeed wrote: »

If i am not wrong its that OP spell that all templars just spam to kill world bosses ?? If so nerf well deserved.

You are clueless troll, and I don't know why I am feeding you, but I hope your build gets nerfed into the ground one day so you can understand what we are going through.

Ragenekton

Pls guys. Fix this asap. Lvling my templar(clotharmor) is a pain in the ass now...
A 1.2 second selfstun/selfsilence after biting jabs is horrible and selfdestroying.
Think iam going to Play my tank till that.

Dominoid

They have already said it was intentional for balance; however, they are going to revert the cool down and instead increase the cost. So you can spam it again until you run out of resources.

tinythinker

Ragenekton wrote: »

Pls guys. Fix this asap. Lvling my templar(clotharmor) is a pain in the ass now...
A 1.2 second selfstun/selfsilence after biting jabs is horrible and selfdestroying.
Think iam going to Play my tank till that.

There was a moderator post on the General Discussion - English forum yesterday responding to this.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Thank you all for your patience as we tracked this one down. We have an answer for you.

In patch 1.1.2, we increased the internal cooldown of Biting Jabs from 0.5 seconds to 1.2 seconds. Unfortunately, this change was not documented in the patch notes. This was not intended, and we do apologize.

This change was made to balance the ability's high single target damage. However we have been reading your feedback, and agree that the ability feels too unresponsive now. We will be reverting this change for the next patch (as soon as possible), and instead will slightly increase the ability's resource cost.

Mortosk

tinythinker wrote: »

Ragenekton wrote: »

Pls guys. Fix this asap. Lvling my templar(clotharmor) is a pain in the ass now...
A 1.2 second selfstun/selfsilence after biting jabs is horrible and selfdestroying.
Think iam going to Play my tank till that.

There was a moderator post on the General Discussion - English forum yesterday responding to this.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Thank you all for your patience as we tracked this one down. We have an answer for you.

In patch 1.1.2, we increased the internal cooldown of Biting Jabs from 0.5 seconds to 1.2 seconds. Unfortunately, this change was not documented in the patch notes. This was not intended, and we do apologize.

This change was made to balance the ability's high single target damage. However we have been reading your feedback, and agree that the ability feels too unresponsive now. We will be reverting this change for the next patch (as soon as possible), and instead will slightly increase the ability's resource cost.

This is where they are wrong, they didn't increase the internal cooldown. They introduced a new 1.2 second GLOBAL cooldown. Going on 5 days now, still have not acknowledged or addressed this mistake.

Nox_Aeterna

Yup, this nerf is so ridiculous , that im not even going around it.

Either they fix this until my sub run out or i wont need to worry about this anymore.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Stop worrying and love the bomb.

I am a Templar and only used Bitting Jabs at VR2. To say the least, is not that good.

Javelin is by far better to CC targets, and blast them to oblivion with Dawn Wrath abilities and weapons.

Razzak

Isn't this game supposed to be without skill CDs?

terence.caroneb17_ESO

"I'm not using this ability, so don't be mad, and play like me !" "You just have to play destro/resto staff instead of melee, works like a charm"

Since craglorn patch, we see a number of people just praising the fact Zenimax killed the tank/dps melee templar builds. You know we're supposed to have a choice right ?
Biting Jabs is not OP, you have to be a man who never played a templar to say it does too much damage to a single target, you have to spam it like 5 times (if you're not interrupted) and then you're not sure to get it killed. If you don't get debuffs on enemies the skill is only worth it as a finisher.

Zenimax (and some non-templar players) are mistaking BOTS with templar PLAYERS. Bots spammed Biting Jabs, not cause it's efficient on its own, it's efficient if you got 4, 5, 6 people doing it on the same boss. Brings up the possibility of critical damage (thats the best thing of Biting Jabs, not basic damage but the fact you have 4 strikes, and it's freakin made to be used that way, not have 1,1/1,2 seconds of not being able to do anything soon as you use it)

Look at PvP these last weeks, look even at PvE. Templar is the least played class of all (maybe nightblade not far from it), cause it already had few good combat skills (compared to healing and some pretty average defensive skills).

In fact, if you need to nerf templars (when DK's are still ruling PvP, may I add, even with the dark talons nerf), the only thing reasonable would be to work on healing, which is really really good (but shouldn't it ? we got a whole skill line taken by it).

Now templars are only healers or ranged (bad) dps using maybe 1 ability of their class. And don't tell me VR content is not meant to be soloe'd, cause we see other classes do fine.

Vandril

Razzak wrote: »

Isn't this game supposed to be without skill CDs?

Well, by the nature of a game that HAS skills to use, there needs to be a sort of GCD. It's in this game, too. It's just hidden and (I believe) is different depending on the skill. That's why you can't just spam all your skill keybinds and have all your attacks go off at the exact same time. They have a certain time after you initiate the ability where you can't use any other ability. Dress it up and call it something else ("activate time", anyone?), but it's a GCD.

That said, this game is as close to CD-free as possible. No ability has a CD much longer than its animation, which means your skill use is limited by your limited resources (Stamina/Magicka) rather than "I can only use this once every 5 minutes!".

aleister

I reinstalled GW2 to compare the combat experiences and they got this right. ZOS could learn a lot from them on how to do this the right way. Combat in GW2 feels completely fluid, abilities do not lag, fire when they are supposed to and when they have a cool-down, you get a sweep timer on the toolbar providing valuable feedback. I had forgotten how enjoyable it was to play a game with a working combat system as opposed to the laggy click-and-pray mess we have in ESO.

Celurian

I was hoping to receive the Change with todays maintenance. I guess nothing happenend. For now, the templar is a totally unplayable solo char. Makes no fun at all.

terence.caroneb17_ESO

Celurian wrote: »

I was hoping to receive the Change with todays maintenance. I guess nothing happenend. For now, the templar is a totally unplayable solo char. Makes no fun at all.

are you talking about the US or EU maintenance ? (the EU one is next night)

Celurian

terence.caroneb17_ESO wrote: »

Celurian wrote: »

I was hoping to receive the Change with todays maintenance. I guess nothing happenend. For now, the templar is a totally unplayable solo char. Makes no fun at all.

are you talking about the US or EU maintenance ? (the EU one is next night)

Oh... i'm obvioesly sleeping to much at the day at the moment. Well. You just gave me hope for another day!

coryevans_3b14_ESO

LOL at the cut and paste builders here who are ruined by ONE spell being nerfed. L2P. I have never used it in the first place and I have a templar.

Mephos

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/100485/was-biting-jabs-nerfed

post in this thread and keep the topic alive or we will all end like NB with bugged skills and no one cares for month. -.-

dcincali

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Stop worrying and love the bomb.

I am a Templar and only used Bitting Jabs at VR2. To say the least, is not that good.

Javelin is by far better to CC targets, and blast them to oblivion with Dawn Wrath abilities and weapons.

Obv this guy only takes on 1 target at a time.

Orizuru

tinythinker wrote: »

Zeeed wrote: »

If i am not wrong its that OP spell that all templars just spam to kill world bosses ?? If so nerf well deserved.

It costs too much to kill a world boss via spamming. You can hit it 4-5 times in a row for a DPS burst but you would then have no magicka left and would need to switch to a weapon or stamina based attack. The issue some people are reporting is a delay for activating *any* new attack after using biting jabs. Some don't see as much of a delay, some say it is taking well over a second. There is no information in the patch notes about biting jabs specifically or what was intended, nor any known pattern to who is affected by differences in delay length.

The way I understood the change was this...

Before the change... It was a channeled spell that took ~1.5 (number might be off by a bit, I didn't check for accuracy) to finish channeling. If you had a need to block before the channel was complete, you could interrupt the channel by another command such as Block of even a different spell/ability. This would clip the Biting Jabs ability and cause it to deal less damage, but would allow you to take action in response to the changes in the fight more readily.

After the change, once you start channeling the ability, you are forced to wait for it to complete it's full effect before you can take another action. So if you notice a spell cast that needs interrupted mid channel, you're boned and are going to eat the spell cast because you are now prevented from interrupting the channeled ability with another action that might be preferred.

aleister

It took 0.5 before and they extended it to 1.5. The it is now, the animation completes before the cool-down, so you stand there like a chump for a full second unable to do anything but wait and get pummeled. I've switched to ranged because melee is gimped for other reasons so I'm not using jabs as much but we still need it when things get on top of us. We don't have much else.

Origin

aleister wrote: »

I reinstalled GW2 to compare the combat experiences and they got this right. ZOS could learn a lot from them on how to do this the right way. Combat in GW2 feels completely fluid, abilities do not lag, fire when they are supposed to and when they have a cool-down, you get a sweep timer on the toolbar providing valuable feedback. I had forgotten how enjoyable it was to play a game with a working combat system as opposed to the laggy click-and-pray mess we have in ESO.

True. I also consider that GW2 is providing one of the best if not the best mmo experience at the moment. And I think that is wise to take a look at it, not only for the fighting system, but also for the way how the events and resource gathering is shared by all - over there you are welcoming other players that are joining the battle, opposite to the perception that I have now in ESO because I really hate empty dungeons or bosses that are killed in 2 sec -, the dynamic player level reduction to the area level when is playing in lower level areas, the dynamic fights / events difficulty increased with the number of players and so on.

ZOS_TristanK

Hey, folks. We've moved this discussion from the Support Section to the Class Skills section. Thanks for your feedback!

Celurian

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

Hey, folks. We've moved this discussion from the Support Section to the Class Skills section. Thanks for your feedback!

You got to be kidding me.
I better keep my mouth shut before i get banned for harrassement.

Thank you for your input at this matter, you very usefull Staff member. *blush*

Jeremy_gelber_ESO

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

Hey, folks. We've moved this discussion from the Support Section to the Class Skills section. Thanks for your feedback!

all the better to hide the issue.

pecheckler

It's amazing how much of a damage output loss this is. I'm losing will to play now.

Arreyanne

LOL and how is either change going to stop the 4-6 Templar bot army?

Jeremy_gelber_ESO

so 2 maint windows, and 2 emergency patches and still no fix.