Scourge Campaign

Sioryn

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

Tanthul wrote: »

I am going to add a formal protest to the addon I am developing, "Cyrodiil Alert" (currently counting 7000 downloads if I add up both download sources), visible on both the settings menu and the addon description on both curse.com and esoui.com. Hopefully this will bring the matter to the attention of ESO PVPers. They could be next.
Only publicity can cause a company to react. Unfortunately.

Your add on is good. I used it since day one. But, you hurt us the players WAY more then you hurt ZoS by making such a threat. We use your Addon, not them. Another developer would just take your place and make a new addon.

Don't sully your own work because of your unhappiness of ZoS. I like this addon but if you stop developing it or pull it, ZoS wont care, and most of us who use your PvP app will continue without it.

Don't worry. I'm certain he meant that the add-on will get a textual protest message in both its description on the websites AND in the add-ons settings in-game.

The publicity comes from showing the protest message to those thousands of users, not the other way around.

frwinters_ESO

Oakes wrote: »

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

Tanthul wrote: »

I am going to add a formal protest to the addon I am developing, "Cyrodiil Alert" (currently counting 7000 downloads if I add up both download sources), visible on both the settings menu and the addon description on both curse.com and esoui.com. Hopefully this will bring the matter to the attention of ESO PVPers. They could be next.
Only publicity can cause a company to react. Unfortunately.

Your add on is good. I used it since day one. But, you hurt us the players WAY more then you hurt ZoS by making such a threat. We use your Addon, not them. Another developer would just take your place and make a new addon.

Don't sully your own work because of your unhappiness of ZoS. I like this addon but if you stop developing it or pull it, ZoS wont care, and most of us who use your PvP app will continue without it.

Don't worry. I'm almost 100% certain he/she meant that the add-on will get a textual protest message in both its description on the websites AND in the add-ons settings in-game.

The publicity comes from showing the protest message to those thousands of users, not the other way around.

At least that's how I immediately read it, though I agree it could've been a bit clearer and less between-the-lines

Oh if thats the case im deleting the addon. Thats just stupid.

Hridh

Thank you for caring Tanthul!

frwinters, well, it's a bit egoistic I guess to just not care to the point of erasing the add-on which might make you care, but each its own.

Tanthul

Yes Oakes, this is exactly what I meant.

@frwinters_ESO:
Why is it stupid to have a message about this situation in the settings page that you barely ever visit? It's not intrusive and just raises public awareness when people see it at the bottom of the settings page. I seriously do not understand what bothers you about this? I would understand it if I made a popup window with the message (something I would never consider as it would be annoying to everyone) but a subtle message at the bottom of the settings doesn't hurt anyone. And I'm pretty sure there are people who don't read the forums and would possibly want to know about this anyhow. Their campaign could be next.

frwinters_ESO

Tanthul wrote: »

Yes Oakes, this is exactly what I meant.

@frwinters_ESO:
Why is it stupid to have a message about this situation in the settings page that you barely ever visit? It's not intrusive and just raises public awareness when people see it at the bottom of the settings page. I seriously do not understand what bothers you about this? I would understand it if I made a popup window with the message (something I would never consider as it would be annoying to everyone) but a subtle message at the bottom of the settings doesn't hurt anyone. And I'm pretty sure there are people who don't read the forums and would possibly want to know about this anyhow. Their campaign could be next.

Someone using the add-on system to spread there own personal disgust for a game to me is stupid and im sure it is against some sort of ToS for addon makers. Why would I want an addon that spouts the personal opinions of its creator? I want an addon to help make my gameplay better and thats it. Keep personal opinion to the forums, reddit etc.

Tanthul

1) I am spreading no "personal disgust". I have no disgust whatsoever. Personal or other kind of. What I have is frustration of seeing two months of my life, spent on achieving something, going down the drain. Still I am not "spreading" my frustration either (if such thing is even possible).

2) I am not spreading a personal opinion either. I am just informing people of what happened (which is an undisputed FACT, not an opinion) and let them decide for themselves on if they want to post here in this thread or send feedback to Zenimax with their thoughts on the subject.

3) It is not against any kind of ToS. I could write my life story in an addon and it could still be perfectly legit. I would call if "Fishy Novel" and it would give you something to read and pass the time while fishing in ESO. (Awesome idea for new addon it seems!)

4) The message I put in the settings is non-intrusive and it will stay there until the end of the campaigns or Zenimax deciding to compensate people who were playing on Scourge EU and NA in some way.

5) If you are so bothered by a small message in the settings page that takes no resources, is not intrusive and only aims to make a REAL issue known to the public then I'm sorry but you'll have to find another addon as the message is now in CA as of the latest version today. There's one that has stolen almost all my code, perhaps you should use that instead. Or you can stay on version 0.2.2.

6) The addon is offered to everyone free of charge and takes my time in developing it and testing it. Time that could be spent playing or working on the actual coding projects that pay my rent. I'm working on and offering it, of my own good will and as a means to contribute something to this great game that I personally enjoy. Since you like it so much, I would expect you to at least give me the common courtesy, if not respect, to indulge myself in publicizing what I deem like a very important issue that affects me, my entire guild and LOTS of other ESO players. Agreeing or not with the severity of the issue is irrelevant as this is my decision and my alone to make.

Hridh

Tanthul, I think it's good to make people who might just not read these forums aware about what happened with Scourge, and yeah, I also feel like having spent a heavy lot of time in 2 months of my life for something that was just erased, by cheer randomness, and by error, for which shall be the entitled compensation (end of campaign rewards, even pro rata 2monthes).

PS : very tired, excuse my poor English here

Avidus

Guys, You all need to chill out a little bit, take a step back and consider what we the player of scourge feel we should receive from ZoS.
Right now this thread is "ZoS you stuffed up, realize it or we will punish you."

Ok, so what if they do know? ZoS are seeking player opinion in order to what is reasonable.
Protesting is not the way to go about it.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌
Please take note of the deteriorating opinions of a large portion of the players from Scourge, some of us understand the importance of closing a campaign..
We also recognize a lot of players asking for less campaigns, so your course of action was expected at some point.
However the way the campaign was ended was unexpected, and caught us all my surprise, and left us all with nothing. Unmotivated to continue trying on one of the remaining campaigns.
What you have stated we get to keep are things we would have kept regardless.
A currency and PvP title. Which transfer between campaigns anyway, the only benefit we got was not having to pay for a Home Campaign switch, but we were forced to switch, so its not really a benefit.

Please at least touch base with the players here.
All I am asking for at this point is some communication from ZoS. At least let us know that we are not forgotten. (The irony being this thread is a sticky.)

Tanthul

@Avidus I do not think that this thread is "ZoS you stuffed up, realize it or we will punish you."at any point. I think this is a "ZoS you stuffed up and we voice our thoughts of not willing to accept no compensation and go on our merry way".

At no point have they said or implied that they're looking for player opinions, feedback or even that they're looking into a solution. They only said "Oops." and that's it. I believe protesting (making people aware of the issue so they send them feedback on their own) is the only way to go at this point.
Do not mix-up the semantics of protesting with complaining or threatening:

protest
[n. proh-test; v. pruh-test, proh-test]
noun
1.
an expression or declaration of objection, disapproval, or dissent, often in opposition to something a person is powerless to prevent or avoid: a protest against increased taxation.

This is the only thing we can do. Voice our objection to the way it was handled. Proposals of possible actions to be taken, have also been made.

That said, today I received this reply to my reply to the initial ticket I had sent about missing transferred AP. Notice that I had replied to the mail at 24/05:

Greetings,

I am sorry for the delay in this response. I am happy to look into the transfer of your points and get you what you have earn.

Which of your character were in the Scourge campaign? Do you know about how much AP each had?

Thank you for your continued interest and support!

Although several of my guild members had gotten replies to their tickets saying that the transfer of points was meant for the currency AP, this mail seems to imply otherwise, again. I will reply to it right now, asking for a clear disambiguation between AP and AP currency, also including the amount of AP that I had and we'll see how that goes. I will update you all here with any answers.

Avidus

Ill clarify, what I am trying to say is we need to let ZoS know how we feel, we need to know what we want done.
The manner of which I am seeing by a lot of players however, I find despicable.

ZoS are more likely to listen to us if we act civil and mature about it.

FireCowCommando

They put a system to reward the players who put in the most work in a campaign (emperor). It requires massive time investment, which they deleted. Only makes you begin to question why spend the time playing the game if they dont have a problem deleting your efforts.

The reason why they will never give the leaderboard points back to the players who earned them on their new campaigns is simple. They want to keep the damage caused to the smallest number of players. If they let you keep your points then other players would also complain, making their mistake even worse.

So they will do nothing until the player complaints either go away, or the small number of players affected quit the game. They have not shown any concern so far, and they never will. They said it already:

Sorry for your bad luck, we are not going to do anything for you.

Every attempt i have read so far from players calling their customer support has gotten the same misdirect response intended to only confuse the poor soul who thought they would get anything out of their mistake of picking Scourge.

Tanthul

I think there have been minimal uncivilized posts in this thread. Most of the posters behaved themselves which is rather surprising, in a good way, considering what has happened to them.

I do agree, though, that no matter how frustrated we are about this we should keep it civil. No one takes a post with cursing, flaming, venting etc seriously. If someone posts like that, all they can hope for is for their post to get moderated..

As to what do we want done? Dark Moon's proposal is when all the campaigns end, Scourge players to be awarded rewards based on their leaderboard positions/performance they had at the last backup snapshot of Scourge instead of where they will be at the time. We believe this is the most fair outcome for everyone involved.

Avidus

Tanthul wrote: »

As to what do we want done? Dark Moon's proposal is when all the campaigns end, Scourge players to be awarded rewards based on their leaderboard positions/performance they had at the last backup snapshot of Scourge instead of where they will be at the time. We believe this is the most fair outcome for everyone involved.

I agree. This is what needs to happen.

Tanthul

FireCowCommando wrote: »

The reason why they will never give the leaderboard points back to the players who earned them on their new campaigns is simple. They want to keep the damage caused to the smallest number of players. If they let you keep your points then other players would also complain, making their mistake even worse.

The thing is that we never asked for that. It's what the official statement in this very thread (by @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌) suggested by playing a wording trick on the semantics of Alliance Points. All in a hasty effort of damage control.

So they will do nothing until the player complaints either go away, or the small number of players affected quit the game. They have not shown any concern so far, and they never will. They said it already:

Sorry for your bad luck, we are not going to do anything for you.

The solution that we proposed is fair for everyone and does not cause issues to other campaign players. They have absolutely no excuse of not doing so. Surely it takes resources to do it (creating a script for it or having someone manually examining the leaderboards on the last database snapshot and manually awarding at the end) but it is the very least they could do after messing up so many players (and entire guilds) that had the misfortune of selecting Scourge as their Home campaign.

What is even more annoying is that this thread is being entirely ignored. Surely they read it. They read all threads and respond to all of the threads that pertain to a valid issue and are not just random unsubstantiated claims or rants. You can see that if you check the dev tracker.
Not responding to this one is like refusing to aknowledge that our issue, is even an issue. I am starting to find this rather insulting. Specially considering the fact that we are trying to be as civil as humanly possible and offer suggestions for solutions to the issue that don't affect other players.

If you only take the top 20 of 3 different alliances on two Scourge campaigns (NA/EU) you have 120 players directly affected by this and this assumes that only the top 20 gets the good rewards. Is this number insignificant by Zenimax standards? By the lack of acknowledgement and communication it certainly seems to be. And that is rather sad.

Every attempt i have read so far from players calling their customer support has gotten the same misdirect response intended to only confuse the poor soul who thought they would get anything out of their mistake of picking Scourge.

Indeed. Today I got this answer, after asking for a clear disambiguation:

Are you talking about your rank or your AP points. Are you missing your alliance point or just your ranks?

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Best wishes,
*I've removed the name for privacy*
The Elder Scrolls Online Team

Which notice, does not directly answer the question. It answers my question with another question. This is a cat and mouse game until the customer gives up. And that is rather disappointing.

To @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌: Admitting to the bad handling of this situation and offering a compensation for affected players, that does not affect other players, will earn you a lot more points in public image/PR, sincerity and player trust than just ignoring the issue hoping it will go away (which has the contrary effect). It is still not too late to fix this wrongdoing.

Sioryn

[snip]

Hondy

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Sadly Scourge players will not be rewarded retroactively.

From : http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/107716/upcoming-campaign-changes/p1

Tanthul

Well this is the latest from customer support:

Greetings,

I am sorry your rank did not carry over to your new campaign. I know you work hard for you ranking. We working to see if there is a way to carry over you ranking. Please watch the forums for official updates.

Sorry I could not be of more help.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Best wishes,
*name removed for privacy*
The Elder Scrolls Online Team

This seems to directly contradict what @ZOS_BrianWheeler‌ said in that post.The above is the only statement so far that they are doing something and it involves ranking..
I am getting the feeling that the strategy is to have us wondering/hoping/walking around in circles, thinking we will be compensated somehow, until the campaigns end and nothing happens...

Avidus

They have already stated in the new campaign change thread that the players of scourge will receive nothing.
Which as I am sure we all know, is unacceptable.

Come on ZoS, Don't step on us.

FireCowCommando

How to run a mmo:

1) Delete a campaign, erasing the leader board point accumulation
2) Tell your players it was a mistake, and give them hope they might get something, and wish them luck climbing the new leader board.
3) Two weeks later, announce that the time the players spent on climbing the new leader board before the campaign ends is over, they are closing all the campaigns early.
4) Remind the Scourge players you don't give two *** about them, nothing is retroactive and the last 20 days of the new campaign they were forced into is over. Every other player is rewarded for the full 70 days of work they put in.

mjspnrb18_ESO

FireCowCommando wrote: »

How to run a mmo:

1) Delete a campaign, erasing the leader board point accumulation
2) Tell your players it was a mistake, and give them hope they might get something, and wish them luck climbing the new leader board.
3) Two weeks later, announce that the time the players spent on climbing the new leader board before the campaign ends is over, they are closing all the campaigns early.
4) Remind the Scourge players you don't give two *** about them, nothing is retroactive and the last 20 days of the new campaign they were forced into is over. Every other player is rewarded for the full 70 days of work they put in.

This needs to be reposted its that damn accurate! - Zaz

TheGrandAlliance

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/108412/sos-save-our-servers/p1

Guys dont let them do this to the rest of us! Make your voices heard!

frwinters_ESO

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/108412/sos-save-our-servers/p1

Guys dont let them do this to the rest of us! Make your voices heard!

Servers will be nuked!!!!!

Asatsuo

Im sorry but our server was already nuked along with our scores, hopes, dreams and possibly subs...

Tanthul

Apparently no one really cares. No one cared for Scourge and no one really cares for the others as well.

It's 16 days left till campaigns end. What reason would anyone have to end them prematurely 2 weeks before they end normally? The idea itself is absurd.
But then again so was the fact that Scourge was terminated without any compensation to its players... No one cares that entire guilds have fallen into disarray and staleness because nothing they do at this point matters. No one wants to play anymore..

And all you hear now is heated arguments about the new campaign format... Sure discussing the format is good and all but why do you again have to kill campaigns 2 weeks before they end?

Well at least players will get some sort of compensation now. Which is more than can be said for Scourge players who got completely ignored.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Geez, any other game they'd throw you a special title or something novel like a pet. They can't even be bothered to do that.

Vahrokh

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Geez, any other game they'd throw you a special title or something novel like a pet. They can't even be bothered to do that.

Yeah, how can't ZoS see this is the quintessence of bad, it's exactly (in)actions like this that kill a MMO. Both because it demoralizes and humiliate players and because of the sure awful publicity these "bold moves" get posted everywhere on Internet.

mjspnrb18_ESO

Vahrokh wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Geez, any other game they'd throw you a special title or something novel like a pet. They can't even be bothered to do that.

Yeah, how can't ZoS see this is the quintessence of bad, it's exactly (in)actions like this that kill a MMO. Both because it demoralizes and humiliate players and because of the sure awful publicity these "bold moves" get posted everywhere on Internet.

Erhmahgherd someone brought scourge back to life!

Lionxoft

mjspnrb18_ESO wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Geez, any other game they'd throw you a special title or something novel like a pet. They can't even be bothered to do that.

Yeah, how can't ZoS see this is the quintessence of bad, it's exactly (in)actions like this that kill a MMO. Both because it demoralizes and humiliate players and because of the sure awful publicity these "bold moves" get posted everywhere on Internet.

Erhmahgherd someone brought scourge back to life!

I'm bringing it back again. Whenever ZOS screws up I'm reminded of this occurrence.

Braidas

Lionxoft wrote: »

mjspnrb18_ESO wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Geez, any other game they'd throw you a special title or something novel like a pet. They can't even be bothered to do that.

Yeah, how can't ZoS see this is the quintessence of bad, it's exactly (in)actions like this that kill a MMO. Both because it demoralizes and humiliate players and because of the sure awful publicity these "bold moves" get posted everywhere on Internet.

Erhmahgherd someone brought scourge back to life!

I'm bringing it back again. Whenever ZOS screws up I'm reminded of this occurrence.

Ya this was a *** up of epic proportions dont let them forget it

Hridh

For those who remember Scourge