Zenimax going back on a promise about Racial Motiff's in 1.2

Oberon

Crushinator wrote: »

Why the hell do so many whiners claim they are FORCED to go do something? No one, and I mean NO ONE, is forcing (or Mandating that) you go out and buy gold from a gold seller to get a motif. It's COSMETIC. NON-FUNCTIONAL.

There is nothing forced, but if a player wants those items, he's not going to get them in game. He's going straight to a gold seller to obtain gold so that he can then purchase one from another player who exploited to get them. The problem is that this runs directly counter to ZOS' stated intention to get rid of gold sellers.

So much freaking QQ about aesthetics. Holy crap. Pay a crafter who has it, or get lucky. Acting like it's your RIGHT to have these motifs is idiotic (I'm holding back).

The issue is that the current drop rates drive players to gold sellers in a big way. It has nothing to do with entitlement or perceived rights.

You want it? Get lucky and find it, buy it with gold.
I absolutely never farm stuff. I have no gold to buy motifs. And yet I understand the same thing several people have pointed out. My ability to play my character is absolutely unhindered by not having Daedric or High Elf.

True enough, but the "lucky" part is so miniscule that players are simply going right to gold sellers, propping up the very bots that pretty much everybody wants to see gone.

The crafting motifs are just cosmetic, so it would do zero harm to simply dramatically increase their drop rates and make them bound to your account--a simple, elegant solution that kills the biggest incentive in the game for players to purchase from gold selling bots.

If your ability to play is unhindered by not having Daedric/Ancient Elf, then you would not have any problem with them being made account bound. As an added bonus, bots/gold sellers would be severely damaged. Win-win.

dolmen

@hightoriab16_ESO - Yes, Monday May 19th - Orc Motif, in a trunk in the Bank at Wayrest. 3rd one of these Orc Motifs I have found. Didn't need it, stuck it in the Guild Store for others.

BaddLarry

spammichtotb16_ESO wrote: »

Would it really hurt anyone but the gold sellers if motifs dropped like candy and everyone could easily collect all styles?

Really, I have most of them besides the really rare ones and I could not care less if everyone else would have them too.

Why would you buy a craft from someone that you can craft yourself?

Vlaxitov

I personally don't care about motifs. Having the regular racial motifs is nice only because it keeps my cheap self from spending money on racial pieces when I make junk items to sell. Other than that I don't even like the daedric look, I've seen the ancient elf maybe one time, and I've never seen anyone wearing barbaric or primal.

That said, my real problem with this is for those who can relate to diablo 2 days, this essentially adds a windforce or perfect vampire gaze to the game. In other words it enables and encourages botting farmers and gold sellers to continue doing what they do. The botting farmers are soo out of control and brazen atm that single player skyrim is starting to sound like as much if not more fun to play.

EvilEmpire

[/quote]

Somewhat confused, but I'm going to assume this helps in some way. I'm not sure, but it feels like it should. I might be wrong.

That said, is there a chance that you guys might look at possibly increasing the drops rates if this fix doesn't seem to help with matters?[/quote]


are you serious?

AlexCala7b14_ESO wrote: »

hightoriab16_ESO wrote: »

Has anyone actually found a motif recently?

Some have, but they are the exception, the rule is that you are not likely to see them, since the drop rate is so atrocious now.

I have been shaking my head at reading this post. YOU are exactly what is wrong with MMOs today. So many spoiled, pompous little brats. Always gimme gimme gimme so everything is so easy for you on a silver platter. I bet you were first in line to buy the Game Genie when it came out.


There have been PLENTY of people finding the rare motifs (found Primal myself yesterday). Just because you haven't, or your guildmates (assuming you have asked all 1300 of them personally and got 1300 'no' responses), doesn't mean the drop rate is so abysmally low that it's basically non-existant like your whining suggests.

AlexCala7b14_ESO

Crushinator wrote: »

But the fact that the economy is busted has ZERO relevance to my comment. You have 100% choice in this. Pay the ridiculous, unwarrantedly high prices, or wait until you find it. Claiming you're forced to buy it is ignorant. Claiming that the economy is broken translates to you should have motif drops is silly.

But I agree, the market is a bit borked. Not a lot to do about that except let it normalize, which isn't something that is GOVERNED over but rather happens by the people within the market. And takes time.

With an economy as busted as it is now, it is /not/ going to normalize. Not with how much gold and items were in there. Not for perhaps months from now, or likely closer to six months. /Maybe./ And see, you are sort of forced to do it, unless you want to spend twelve hours farming for one thing that before you could figure you'd be able to reliably find while questing. So now you are /FORCED/, to either /PAY UP/ which most people /can't/ do. Or you are /FORCED/ to farm for hours on end, which you could be using to do something else you enjoy, all because you are being /penalized/ for *** that happened before where the only people who were /PENALIZED/ were the ones who /DID NOT EXPLOIT/.

So. Yeah. Options are limited. I don't feel I should need to save up all my gold to give the ridiculously priced motiffs my money, nor do I feel like I should have to suffer through fourt to twelve hours of grinding to find one when I /SHOULD/ be able to find it normally through questing and exploring /LIKE I USED TO BE ABLE TO DO./

AlexCala7b14_ESO

spammichtotb16_ESO wrote: »

Would it really hurt anyone but the gold sellers if motifs dropped like candy and everyone could easily collect all styles?

Really, I have most of them besides the really rare ones and I could not care less if everyone else would have them too.

QFT.

Oberon

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

Nitratas wrote: »

Daedric motif is going for more than half a million gold at the moment. Theres no way to save that much money without abusing the market.

Yup, zenimax is encouraging you to buy gold for your dollars and encourage all this botting and RMT

Or just wait until you actually find it?

Sure, but quite a large number of players don't do that. This results in them propping up gold sellers and bots, caused directly by ZOS' decision to make the drop rates very nearly zero. Raise the drop rates and bind to account. Problem solved.

Inupis

I DEMAND TO BE ABLE TO GET/DO/BE EVERYTHING IN A MONTH SO I CAN QUIT AND MOVE ON TO ANOTHER GAME.

SDZald

KaedianEQ wrote: »

Nitratas wrote: »

Daedric motif is going for more than half a million gold at the moment. Theres no way to save that much money without abusing the market.

Yup, zenimax is encouraging you to buy gold for your dollars and encourage all this botting and RMT

Or the item is supposed to be rare and you simply need to farm for it more.

No one ever guaranteed everyone would have all of the motifs in the first month or two.

Oh yea that's what I LOVE to do with my limited playing time, farm for an item. Hey casual gamers "middle finger"

AlexCala7b14_ESO

@EvilEmpire ...Because you call others idiots while failing to actually quote effectively, demonstrating your.... "superior" mental prowess, I had to double post. So people can actually read what I wrote and not mix what I say with your dribble.

Lot's of posts here, zone chat, guild chat, and just about everything else disagrees with your assessment there. That and looking at the market, and what stuff is going for. But, I guess such things as science and fact are beyond your grasp.

AlexCala7b14_ESO

See above post!

EvilEmpire

Lot's of posts here, zone chat, guild chat, and just about everything else disagrees with your assessment there. That and looking at the market, and what stuff is going for. But, I guess such things as science and fact are beyond your grasp.[/quote]


You have not provided any science or facts for your argument, only more whining and complaints that you can't have everything all at once. Even taking account posts here, zone chat, guild chat, etc, does not account for anything more than a small % of actual players. Not every single person that plays the game reads and posts on these forums.


Or maybe I missed the results of your 'scientific' poll to your 1300 guildmates? what was the result - all 1300 said they have not found a rare motif? Or you just asked in chat, and the three responses you got said 'no'?

AlexCala7b14_ESO

Inupis wrote: »

I DEMAND TO BE ABLE TO GET/DO/BE EVERYTHING IN A MONTH SO I CAN QUIT AND MOVE ON TO ANOTHER GAME.

Sounds more like someone is missing the point and trying to act like a sarcastic ass than an actual productive human being. Hey, if you can't quite grasp what people are saying, you keep doing what you're doing. You keep thinking your laughing at us, when we're the ones laughing at you.

Ultra55371

Since the 'nerf' I have found 3 motifs; Imperial, Ancient Elves and the Deadric Motif. All you have to do is look everywhere especially every desk and trunk you come too. Plus they say "slight reduction" so I don't think it will have much more of a impact on the game. No I do not exploit, I just travel a lot and found all 3 books in different area/zones while doing quests.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

They should stealth nerf a "Bound" onto every motif in existence.

AlexCala7b14_ESO

@EvilEmpire would you like me to make a poll here? I could do so. Are you really that bothered by people wanting motiffs and having things fair? Are you really so much against people being treated like they were at launch? What's your beef other than trying to be an armchair warrior acting like people are acting entitled, when that isn't the truth.

madfeldoreb17_ESO

Oberon wrote: »

The issue is that the current drop rates drive players to gold sellers in a big way. It has nothing to do with entitlement or perceived rights.

Sorry I just picked a couple of lines from your post but... it was mostly the same "blah blah people go to gold sellers because"... I mean really? I mean, really??

"... the current drop rates drive players to gold sellers in a big way."

You can't be serious?

People are going to gold sellers because they can't find Motifs or something? Buahaha! "Best" one today.

PS. Cheaters cheat no matter what is available or what isn't. Also, there's no excuse for cheating, ever. Cheaters always cheat.

Cheers...

SDZald

AlexCala7b14_ESO wrote: »

Inupis wrote: »

I DEMAND TO BE ABLE TO GET/DO/BE EVERYTHING IN A MONTH SO I CAN QUIT AND MOVE ON TO ANOTHER GAME.

Sounds more like someone is missing the point and trying to act like a sarcastic ass than an actual productive human being. Hey, if you can't quite grasp what people are saying, you keep doing what you're doing. You keep thinking your laughing at us, when we're the ones laughing at you.

Hey give the guy a break he posted in all caps that has to mean his message is "special." LOL

AlexCala7b14_ESO

It was no slight reduction, if you look at the data of what was found before, what was available, and what has been found since and what is available. Market's are generally good for that sort of thing.

AlexCala7b14_ESO

SDZald wrote: »

AlexCala7b14_ESO wrote: »

Inupis wrote: »

I DEMAND TO BE ABLE TO GET/DO/BE EVERYTHING IN A MONTH SO I CAN QUIT AND MOVE ON TO ANOTHER GAME.

Sounds more like someone is missing the point and trying to act like a sarcastic ass than an actual productive human being. Hey, if you can't quite grasp what people are saying, you keep doing what you're doing. You keep thinking your laughing at us, when we're the ones laughing at you.

Hey give the guy a break he posted in all caps that has to mean his message is "special." LOL

True. True. I should be more kind to those with.. "Special people" like him.

Vlaxitov

People who argue for extreme rarity of these items are just failing to see what extreme rarity has done to other games. The very first bot I ever heard of in an online game was diablo 2 with mephbot and pindlebot. It was extreme rarity of items in diablo 2 that gave birth to these bots.

At least in diablo 2 extremely rare items were actually functional items. In this game were talking about useless textures and people are actually defending the encouragement a game degrading plague of botting farmers for the sake of keeping those useless textures extremely rare.

ZOS_GinaBruno

We'll certainly keep an eye on the feedback about motif drop rates after this patch rolls out and you've had a chance to play through. That said, it is intended that these should be rare items, so keep that in mind.

Crushinator

AlexCala7b14_ESO wrote: »

Crushinator wrote: »

But the fact that the economy is busted has ZERO relevance to my comment. You have 100% choice in this. Pay the ridiculous, unwarrantedly high prices, or wait until you find it. Claiming you're forced to buy it is ignorant. Claiming that the economy is broken translates to you should have motif drops is silly.

But I agree, the market is a bit borked. Not a lot to do about that except let it normalize, which isn't something that is GOVERNED over but rather happens by the people within the market. And takes time.

With an economy as busted as it is now, it is /not/ going to normalize. Not with how much gold and items were in there. Not for perhaps months from now, or likely closer to six months. /Maybe./ And see, you are sort of forced to do it, unless you want to spend twelve hours farming for one thing that before you could figure you'd be able to reliably find while questing. So now you are /FORCED/, to either /PAY UP/ which most people /can't/ do. Or you are /FORCED/ to farm for hours on end, which you could be using to do something else you enjoy, all because you are being /penalized/ for *** that happened before where the only people who were /PENALIZED/ were the ones who /DID NOT EXPLOIT/.

So. Yeah. Options are limited. I don't feel I should need to save up all my gold to give the ridiculously priced motiffs my money, nor do I feel like I should have to suffer through fourt to twelve hours of grinding to find one when I /SHOULD/ be able to find it normally through questing and exploring /LIKE I USED TO BE ABLE TO DO./

So someone is standing there with a gun saying BUY THIS FREAKING MOTIF OR SO HELP ME YOU DIE HERE.

No. Get real. No one is FORCING you. You are deciding that having a cosmetic motif is more valuable to you than spending your time playing the game.
YOU MADE THAT CHOICE.

Dunkmeister

I don't have issues with the new drop rate on vet motifs. Kind of nice to not have everything the first month. But, I do think they should have bound all the previously looted ones. Talk about prices skyrocketing. It's ridiculous what they sell for now.

EvilEmpire

AlexCala7b14_ESO wrote: »

@EvilEmpire would you like me to make a poll here? I could do so. Are you really that bothered by people wanting motiffs and having things fair? Are you really so much against people being treated like they were at launch? What's your beef other than trying to be an armchair warrior acting like people are acting entitled, when that isn't the truth.

My beef is that I get so sick of whining children who ARE acting like they are entitled. You asked for the drop rate on a rare item be increased so it makes it easier for you to find one.....is that not a fine example of believing you are entitled?

I want the dedric motif...and I'm not paying some greedy *** six figures for it. I'll just keep looking for it like I always do, and I'll eventually find it. It's the anticipation of opening the item while looking for the rare that keeps me interested in playing games like this. If I got everything I wanted within the first week/month, there would be no reason for me to continue playing.

Ohioastro

Are you willing to see the impact of fewer empty containers, or are you just pre-convinced that every change is for the worse?

This patch will make these drops more common, not less so, and it is bizarre to be arguing to the contrary.

The old system of logging in and out of the bank to harvest motifs and recipes was a ridiculous mistake that rewarded stupid repetitive behavior. I'm glad it's gone, and I want them to plug comparable things whenever they find them so that I'm not pushed towards having to do similar things to get items.

Motif prices are up, but not by a ton (500ish in my trading guilds from a valley of 400ish). Either it's not as big of a deal as you're saying or there was a huge inventory.

Inupis

AlexCala7b14_ESO wrote: »

Inupis wrote: »

I DEMAND TO BE ABLE TO GET/DO/BE EVERYTHING IN A MONTH SO I CAN QUIT AND MOVE ON TO ANOTHER GAME.

Sounds more like someone is missing the point and trying to act like a sarcastic ass than an actual productive human being. Hey, if you can't quite grasp what people are saying, you keep doing what you're doing. You keep thinking your laughing at us, when we're the ones laughing at you.

No we are laughing. You whine because they made something that frankly is not that important rare. Adding to the game an element that should have been there from the start that being able to craft different armors should be hard and rare. Makes something called a market. Something WoW'bears no nothing about. Back in the day of MMO's it actually took something called luck, time and skill to get stuff. Now days it takes whiners on a forum board to get it. Frankly it is pathetic that people think they should get participation awards for just logging into MMO's.

Oberon

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We'll certainly keep an eye on the feedback about motif drop rates after this patch rolls out and you've had a chance to play through. That said, it is intended that these should be rare items, so keep that in mind.

The problem is that the drop rates are so crazy low that it's simply better to head to a gold seller than farm for them. The massive reduction in drop rates runs directly counter to the battle against gold sellers and bots. If you're looking at the code and thinking "hey, we just reduced the drop rates a little", then the code is wrong. The drop rates are microscopic now, and that acts as a cattle prod to push players to the botting gold sellers.

SDZald

Vlaxitov I think you will find the people defending this nerf are one of three types.
1)Company shill, trying to keep the masses from storming the gates.
2)Gold Farmers.
3)Power gamers who base their entire personal worth around the ability to have something in game that few others have.