Caroloces wrote: »

Here's my suggestion for what it's worth: For player levels 1-50, keep overland content just as it is. As soon as a player reaches champion point status, have the health levels of zone antagonists rise a certain amount dependent upon the number of CPs the player has accumulated. It could be something like every 100 CPs the player gains, then the health of antagonists rises X amount.

This reminds me of how things were before One Tamriel. Once you completed your faction's zones you did the faction's zones for Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold. These zones were veteran level, with Gold being even more difficult than Silver.

I hated the difficulty and dying all the time for what should have been simple quests. When Craglorn was introduced that was the final straw for me because I could no longer just log on and quest at my own pace, but rather was at the mercy of others because you absolutely could not solo anything in that zone back then. I quit and didn't return until after One Tamriel.

I am the Hero and I should be stronger than the basic overland mobs. Reverting overland back to forced difficulty would be a huge mistake and cost ESO a lot of players.

I love the overland content difficulty how it is. All I do is world content, I don't raid, I don't do group dungeons, the only time I group in this game is for the world bosses that I can't solo.

That's me, a solo player, I'll never have the best gear, I'll always have the best gear I can get from questing and that's fine for me. I'm an alt fanatic, I love leveling up different classes and races, I love the story, I don't play video games for a challenge. That's how I enjoy my fun in this game.

I believe they already tried to make a challenging zone called Craglorn, they had to nerf it because nobody would go there. Making everything challenging would just make a lot of players either quit or stop doing world content. The only way to make both sides happy is giving an option.

Lord of the rings online... I believe has a server that makes stuff more challenging, or you can pick the server that makes everything easy, guess which one I picked? Yup, the easy server. Then there's the normal server.

It seems like the people maxed out with the best gear end game gear you can achieve complaining the overland is too easy. I see a lot of players while out questing needing a heal from me. And no, they weren't AFK, they actually needed help and I was happy to come to their rescue. I'm guessing they were probably new to the game or trying out a new class.

But yeah, hopefully since ZOS is paying attention to this subject that they'll give you guys that want everything to be a challenge an option but please make it optional, a lot of us like the way it is and are fine with it.

So this way everybody wins, if they screw over all of us then that'll be the end of my subscriptions on Xbox and PC. I love this game so much and I've spent a lot of money in the store to support this game so I would hope they make some kind of option, toggle or a hardmode server or something for those that want it.

SilverBride wrote: »

Caroloces wrote: »

Here's my suggestion for what it's worth: For player levels 1-50, keep overland content just as it is. As soon as a player reaches champion point status, have the health levels of zone antagonists rise a certain amount dependent upon the number of CPs the player has accumulated. It could be something like every 100 CPs the player gains, then the health of antagonists rises X amount.

This reminds me of how things were before One Tamriel. Once you completed your faction's zones you did the faction's zones for Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold. These zones were veteran level, with Gold being even more difficult than Silver.

I hated the difficulty and dying all the time for what should have been simple quests. When Craglorn was introduced that was the final straw for me because I could no longer just log on and quest at my own pace, but rather was at the mercy of others because you absolutely could not solo anything in that zone back then. I quit and didn't return until after One Tamriel.

I am the Hero and I should be stronger than the basic overland mobs. Reverting overland back to forced difficulty would be a huge mistake and cost ESO a lot of players.

Remember that heroes are not invincible. This is just a handout game the way it is right now. If I wanted to play a handout game, I would type TGM on Skyrim. The only thing giving me a Skyrim Giant level of difficulty in ESO is world bosses. The rest are skeevers with big hp bars.
They even have the same attack rate.
I want advanced NPC combat mod level of difficulty if possible.
I blame Bethesda for not releasing TES6 after 10+ years.
I would just be playing that while I slowly retire from video games. Right now the only thing keeping me playing games is the wait for TES6 and Metroid Prime 4. After that, I am done. Unless Melee HD but I'd probably just watch that cause it's hype.

Bodycounter wrote: »

Quintessence: the overland content is generally too easy and not challenging enough. Enemies should not be pure damage sponges and need some interesting mechanics to play around. So just doubling their health and/or damage would be very boring and not satisfying.

I personally love questing in this game especially with a friend of mine. The main problem is that every enemy instantly dies when im touching it and even enemies that are meant to be a real threat in the story will die within seconds. I just want the option to play the content in „veteran difficulty“ to be much more immersed in the story. I don’t need any extra loot or something.

The current state completely sucks away the joy of questing especially for my friend (she’s still new) who just sees everything die or me completely being afk.

I would suffice with just more mob damage but because I'm trying to not request more load on the servers, but yes, the crazier it can be the better.

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

From the now locked thread, edited a bit for clarity.

To those wanting harder overland ask yourself this. Can you do overland even if it is to easy for you?

If your answer is yes, then good for you as you can complete the content albeit easily.

Remember though that some of us older and less fully abled cannot competently do trials, most (all?) DLC dungeons, arenas etc, even at the current difficulty.

So basically what you are saying to players like myself that you want to remove all the fun I have in game so as to make it more of a challenge for you to do. As I have said in the past I quit games I can no longer play.

Tell me why I would pay for ESO+ or even bother playing ESO anymore if this were to happen?

I hate to sound like a [snip] when I'm not trying to but markets do cater to the majority and the majority are capable of this content. I have said before that I feel bad for whoever is unable to play slightly more difficult content and I do wish there was a way for them to enjoy the game as well but I'm not sure if things should cater to the lower numbers. You can also make the argument that hardcore players are a minority but what I'm asking for isn't even hardcore, it's just fun. I don't play hardcore content because I don't like struggling up to that level and overland is too easy. I find myself stuck on only being able to queue dungeons endlessly (not veteran dungeons) because they are somewhat close to the bare minimum I'm requesting for which is just more mob damage. I even clear them solo on a half dps half tank character but I can only repeat the same dungeons so many times before being completely sick of the only content I'm able to enjoy.
If I was a bad and selfish person, I would queue up for dungeons on a full DPS character with a taunt as a Tank role but I really hate to let people down so I can only be honest with the role I queued for.
Queueing as Tank on a half dps half tank character with a taunt is something I have done though and it is pretty ok, just not as much as solo clearing them as this character.
Anyways, remember that we're really only asking for changes that give options, not trying to force it on anybody but the markets still do work that way.
I have an urge to tell the truth, but I don't mean to be rude.

[edited for profanity bypass]

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

I think that you guys and girls who want hard overland have better chances asking for the future new content to have a veteran option rather then asking for a total rework of the current overland and its mobs,bosses,etc.I mean we have so much overland out there,the amount of time it would take to rework/redo mechanics of everything would be insane.
Adding a difficulty option for upcoming chapters/dlcs I could imagine would be managable as it would not involve so much extra work as it would be added slowely one zone at the time.
And if bugs/errors would occur it would only affect the one zone instead of the whole Tamriel.

Nah, they already reworked the entire game for you now they can do it for us.

I'm kinda split on forcing difficulty on others and making it optional.
I understand people still wanna enjoy free loot but it just doesn't make sense given the setting of the game. If it's so story-focused, then the story has not weight to it if the difficulty is non-existent.
This is just the option that makes the most sense without a single question and it is not debatable.
But, we also have to understand people just simply don't enjoy that so that's why I'm also fine with it being optional.
It just bothers me that it being optional makes absolutely no sense for the story but I can live with it and I much rather have that than free loot.

vingarmo wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Also here are some responses from Rich Lambert that I had compiled in another thread that I think are pertinent here.


On Vet Overland: [Source for both following responses]

"So, we had that, Jeulen, at launch. It was called Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold. Nobody did it and everybody hated it, so we took it out and we put the challenge into world bosses and into solo arenas and into dungeons and trials."

“People just did not like the extra difficulty in the story stuff. I get that there’s a lot of people that do like the harder difficulty, but a HUGE portion of our player base just wants to do story, and they don’t want to have to struggle with difficult things.”

“I totally hear you on the difficulty thing. I like things to be more difficult. But the data doesn’t lie. And we have never been more successful than where we are today. And a lot of that has to do with just how much freedom players have to go an experience story.”

“And yes, go look at Craglorn. There’s not a lot of people in Craglorn and that’s not super difficult but it’s more hard than the regular overland.”

On a Toggle:

"Uh, it is not as simple as just flip a switch and make things more difficult. There is a ton of work, and then as lucky mentioned earlier you have to also incentivize that. Like just making something more difficult for no reason, if you're not going to get anything out of it why do it, you know? The satisfaction is there sure, but players are always going to do the thing that is the most efficient and is the least difficult thing for their time.So like I said, we went down that route. We built the game with difficulty in mind and 2/3 of the game was never played by players, so we changed it.”

On Splitting the playerbase using different difficulty [Source]

'We get this question or request a lot too. We built overland content to be inclusive because as an MMO we want to unify as much of the player base as possible in a given zone. Difficulty sliders and settings are a detriment to that."

On what content players want to do (this was NOT said about Vet Overland, but instead was in an different interview where they asked him this question. While this response was never meant by him to address Vet Overland, I do think it's pertinent to know what is the vast majority of content that players engage in)[Source]

The vast majority of our player base loves the exploration, loves the lore, loves the story side of things. So we focus a lot of our time and effort on that. Two of our four major updates every year are focused on story and exploration. The other two are focused on quality of life, are focused on group-oriented activities with the dungeons or adding new systems.

]So let me get that straight: if HUGE part of player base “just wants to do story, and they don’t want to have to struggle with difficult things” then, following that logic, why put challenge in game at all,

Zenimax has clearly stated that they realize some of the player base, though far from the majority, are interested in a challenge with overland content which is why they chose to make world bosses more challenging. So the logic is not flawed by is recognizing some players want a challenge. We see this clearly that a small percentage of the player base has cleared the more recent trials on veteran difficulty and even fewer on vet HM.

It is clear and obvious with every MMORGP that as the content becomes more challenging the fewer the numbers that have a real interest in clearing it. This is the reality of MMORPG players and why overland in pretty much every successful major MMORPG of the past decade, that has stood the test of time, has not had a very challenging overland.

Considering the business side of ESO has seen the game soar to tremendous success since they pushed the game to One Tamriel it seems Zenimax has done something very right. I tend to agree with Zenimax and that is someone who has enjoyed that MMORPGs allow us to enjoy the stories they create without haveing to worry about a challenging fight even though I have cleared the most challenging content in many games and even cleared vet solo trials here in ESO. Nonetheless, I do respect your right to express your displeasure that Zenimax seems to find it not worth the time and money to create a more difficult overland for the minority that is interested in it.

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

From the now locked thread, edited a bit for clarity.

To those wanting harder overland ask yourself this. Can you do overland even if it is to easy for you?

If your answer is yes, then good for you as you can complete the content albeit easily.

Remember though that some of us older and less fully abled cannot competently do trials, most (all?) DLC dungeons, arenas etc, even at the current difficulty.

So basically what you are saying to players like myself that you want to remove all the fun I have in game so as to make it more of a challenge for you to do. As I have said in the past I quit games I can no longer play.

Tell me why I would pay for ESO+ or even bother playing ESO anymore if this were to happen?

I hate to sound like a *** when I'm not trying to but markets do cater to the majority and the majority are capable of this content. I have said before that I feel bad for whoever is unable to play slightly more difficult content and I do wish there was a way for them to enjoy the game as well but I'm not sure if things should cater to the lower numbers. You can also make the argument that hardcore players are a minority but what I'm asking for isn't even hardcore, it's just fun. I don't play hardcore content because I don't like struggling up to that level and overland is too easy. I find myself stuck on only being able to queue dungeons endlessly (not veteran dungeons) because they are somewhat close to the bare minimum I'm requesting for which is just more mob damage. I even clear them solo on a half dps half tank character but I can only repeat the same dungeons so many times before being completely sick of the only content I'm able to enjoy.
If I was a bad and selfish person, I would queue up for dungeons on a full DPS character with a taunt as a Tank role but I really hate to let people down so I can only be honest with the role I queued for.
Queueing as Tank on a half dps half tank character with a taunt is something I have done though and it is pretty ok, just not as much as solo clearing them as this character.
Anyways, remember that we're really only asking for changes that give options, not trying to force it on anybody but the markets still do work that way.

Unless we are given the numbers as to who is or is not able to complete the harder content in the game, your guess is as good as mine as to the average "capability" of the player base. Also a small minority may be able to do some of the tougher content but choose not to so as to feel more epic and don't want a challenge; again no numbers here. All I do know is that I have played games in the past that have upped the difficulty of the mobs and only succeeded in making the more casual players leave; myself included.

Your point on catering to the less abled is just wrong and bordering on elitism IMO. For, if given a choice between content anyone can do and only the majority can do, I'll pick everyone every time. Excluding even a small minority of people from the game is not a solid business model. So long as there is arenas, trials and vet content there is no need to make anyone an outsider in the overland.

If in the future they want to add an optional switch then fine, but again the dev time IMO should be spent on just adding more content instead.

What I mean to say is that most people in the planet have the capability to use all the tools they are given. Most people are not left-handed but you don't see stuff being made for left-handed people. It is generally made for right-handed although there are cases where certain things are made for left-handed people or even ambidextrous.
This is what I mean. Most of us are capable of extending our fingers for a button and so on. What I'm trying to say is that I don't think it's fair to bring up "i'm unable to" as an argument because now we start getting into territories irrelevant to the topic. See, now my reply is all about it.
I'm not an elitist. I am very casual and I only wish for fun. I probably know the names of 2 set armors in this game because I have never cared enough to collect sets.
I only tell the truth and if the truth sounds elitist, I'm sorry.

Sylvermynx wrote: »

By this time in my life, I'm not really interested in "challenge". Every day I live at this point is a challenge. I want a game to distract me, to show me a fantasy world, to give me things to do, have fun with - NOT challenge me.

I spent 40 years being challenged by working in a "man's field" - that was challenge enough. And now that I'm retired, with time and money to burn, I'm not particularly interested in challenge in a game I play for fun.

I'm perfectly happy for there to be an optional setup so that those who do want a challenge can feel they've "won".

I want to just have fun with this game, because dollars to doughnuts, I won't be alive when TES VI releases.... And no, that's not me asking for sympathy - that's me being the realist/cynic I've always been.

This lady gets it!

Age does tend to make you take a different view on things. As I tell my wife daily "I just want to kill things"!

Edited for assuming a gender, I am trying to do better at this but you know "old dogs" .

Thank you for this thread; something permanent makes more sense, here, given the topic will never cease until alterations are eventually made. Below are short bullet points on changes that would make Overland a more compelling experience for myself, by whatever means you deem appropriate to implement stuff so it doesn't wreck the fun of the flower pickers:

• When adjusting the levels of damage and health on normal/quest Overland enemies, perhaps increase their damage output slider a lot further than their health slider. I want them to hurt, but I also want to be able to hurt back. I want to still feel powerful. However, when there is more than one mob, I want to fear for my life
• Smarten up bad guys so they dodge and move around more, avoiding attacks
• Allow for a generous buff to the damage and health of Bears, Giants, Trolls, Final bosses at the end of Delves and Instanced quest encounters... etc. commensurate with what we experience in single player games
• Allow giants to punt us into the atmosphere
• Lengthen the leash of Overland enemies, guards too. It's way too easy to get away from those guys
• Would prefer for players to have more precise and challenging aiming with bows and spells
• Would love the addition of warmth and cool ratings to armor and food, somehow. Water and cold climates should make us feel wet and cold. Warm climates should have us heating up. Both could make things a little more challenging and immersive for us without provisions
• Dying needs to matter or we still have nothing to lose by failing. There should be limitations on fast travel and resurrection. I like how the new game (that shall not be named) is handling this. Putting down a little camp to resurrect at feels much like a Skyrim save file. If you forget to put the camp down and you die, it's as if you have lost your progress and are forced to start over. Soulgem usage and Wayshrine travel would have to also be limited in some fashion for this to work
• It could be fun to add rare, tradable cosmetic drops to particularly exciting and challenging areas within this mode

SilverBride wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

...so what would veteran overland be used for?

To participate in the 95% of this game's content and not be boxed into a corner of repetitious dungeons and trials?

This is the part I am not understanding. Participate how? What content beyond the story and side quests would players be doing in veteran overland, because once the story is complete what else is there to do besides farming nodes or collecting surveys or digging up maps and antiquity leads? Which most would choose to do in normal overland for convenience anyway.

Would players be killing World Bosses, or doing Harrowstorms or Delves? Doing those repeatedly would become just as repetitious as dungeons and trials.

SilverBride, right now we aren't even doing the story and side-quests, because the gameplay is so disengaging it is actively driving us away.

Blackwood was an absolute waste of my money, as I don't need it for the dungeons, and the only content it gave me was unengaging quest lines and companions. I will not make the same mistake next time. If there is no content for higher end gamers, then I will no longer buy chapters.

We aren't interacting or engaging with the content, because the game design is actively driving us away. So we aren't even doing the story and side quests, and I won't, until a change is made.

Vhozek wrote: »

I hate to sound like a [snip] when I'm not trying to but markets do cater to the majority and the majority are capable of this content. .

The majority of people in this game do not want higher difficulty. Do not like higher difficulty. And are NOT capable of doing harder content, because they do not want to research anything. The companions are the way they are because that is how they have to be tuned to be just below the average player in dungeons. Those players aren't gonna force themselves to do it. They will just leave. The current state of Overland IS zos catering to the majority.

People who want harder overland or who want to flag for PvP are in the minority.

As Rich said, the numbers don't lie.

[edited to remove quote]