Iron_Warrior wrote: »Now that's a lot better because now we are honest and can understand eachother. I want optional harder overland and you fear that the devs will become lazy and force it on everyone. We are on the same page on something, neither of us wants the game to become harder overall instead of an optional thing. I'm sure even the vet players sometimes want to just do the dailies, pick materials and go from point A to point B ASAP, so that's the biggest mistake they can make and i'm sure they are smart enough to understand that. If they ever decide to make overland challenging it's either needs to be optional or don't happen at allToxic_Hemlock wrote: »
But here is the rub. It is far easier to just up the entire difficulty over the entire overland than to make it an optional switch. Making two or more different experiences for different playstyles may sound good to some, but the work required may just lead to them increasing it entirely to reduce the dev time.
I, and I am sure many others, are not choosing to ignore the "optional" here, but the path of least resistance leads to just increasing it for everyone, and that is not what I want AT ALL.
Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »Iron_Warrior wrote: »[Removed Quote]
But here is the rub. It is far easier to just up the entire difficulty over the entire overland than to make it an optional switch. Making two or more different experiences for different playstyles may sound good to some, but the work required may just lead to them increasing it entirely to reduce the dev time.
I, and I am sure many others, are not choosing to ignore the "optional" here, but the path of least resistance leads to just increasing it for everyone, and that is not what I want AT ALL.
They literally use this tech everywhere. They can make different instances of maps, they do, and there are everywhere, except overland. They won't change the base overland else upset a massive portion of the player base, but ignoring other players when they have the tools to provide to both, probably not in their best interest.
spartaxoxo wrote: »We're just speculating the idea, not the finer details of rewards. Normal mode player 1 gets 1k coins, hard mode player 2 gets 1.1k coins if needed... just add something for the players that want the challenge
Something like a bit more coin and exp wouldn't be objectionable to me. Or even something like the same gear drops for both, but one is blue and one is green quality. That sort of small thing.
But I really do have to state I am totally opposed to something like motifs, dyes, achievements, etc. Because Overland content is one and done content, and is supposed to be unifying. I can personally do vet content no problem, but I know people who cannot. One of the people I play with in this game I know irl and he is 100% disabled. That there is content both get the same rewards is meaningful to me. I know for a fact he'd quit, for one. But also I like the spirit of it. That there is content in this game we can all do, and then content for people who want a bit of an extra challenge.
Increased rewards for completing veteran vs normal are only fair because you already spending more time and effort doing it.
Never mind that developers themselves stated that one of the main reasons they hesitant on doing this experiment, because they are not sure how to incentivize it.
spartaxoxo wrote: »Blackbird_V wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Blackbird_V wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Blackbird_V wrote: »[*] Quest reward overhaul: Receive a reward chest at the end of a quest depending on the type of quest you have completed. The reward chest rolls on a drop table for various material, motif, cash, furniture or armour set rewards. Each chest has access to the same drop table with the greater chests having a better chance of better loot.
[*] An optional challenge mode toggle for overland quests: A list of debuffs are afflicted onto your character depending on the challenge you have selected. A collectible tool can toggle these effects on and off in case you decide it is too difficult, or you need to go do something else entirely. Cancelling the challenge will fail the challenge however. Upon completion of the quest and challenge you receive a better rewards chest which has a slightly increased drop chance of better loot from the same drop table as the other chests, a little something for your efforts.
See, I do not see why you should have "a little something for your efforts" as you put it for choosing the harder mode. If the point is that overland is too easy and not engaging, then getting better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode should not be necessary. Your reward is doing it on the difficulty you want.
This to me is a huge point of contention.
Lets remove perfected trial gear, undaunted plunder, golden jewellery, skins titles and achievements from them! Because ya know, not necessary having better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode.
That content is meant for experienced players. Story mode is meant for everyone. If new and casual players have nothing where the rewards are tailored towards them, there is zero reason whatsoever for them to play.
Ok lets do veteran overland mode where it's meant for experienced players, oh and lets cater some rewards for us since we're experienced! Seems like a good idea to me. They want to quest for fun, quest points and to be casual, then good for them. They should be rewarded for their time, sure. People who wanna do and complete harder content should be catered differently. If they want better rewards, then work for it.
Story mode can only be done once per character.
So, your statement amounts to "Veteran players should be the only ones that should have a rewarding experience where they can complete content meant for them." And if you don't see how taking literally everything for only one group of players and causing everyone else to quit is a problem, idk what to tell ya. Enjoy your shinies on a quickly dead game, I suppose.
New and casual players must have something rewarding all to themselves. You don't need extra cookies for everything. There's zero reason why something meant to add immersion to story should come with anything special. Something like purple drop instead of blue is one thing, exclusive rewards and junk is another thing entirely
How on Earth will people quit over a veteran overland, that can only be completed once? [snip]
New and casual players get skill points, some gold and experience. That should be rewarding to them. If they want better rewards then they should work for it. If not, then that's on them. If they get frustrated and quit over that then that's just petty imo. We can literally compare this to vet content we have now: they work for it, learn to get better....... or get carried.
[edited for baiting]
Nobody new or casual wants to play just for some coin while all the great players get literally all the nicest things. Some of them will look at the massive amount of work it takes to go from a brand new player or casual player to someone able to do the hardest stuff and get good. And the rest will just quit.
There has to be fun and rewarding things for all levels of play, that's just very basic. It's the reason we get quest rewards and achievements in the first place. There are nice rewards exclusive to the primary target audience for all the types of content. That should not change. The target audience for overland is everyone (but especially casuals) so that is where the big overland rewards should come from. Nobody wants to know they missed out on like a mount and will have to roll an alt out and gear out to vet specs because they beat Rada Al'Saran at level 20.
Something like blue gear instead of purple gear is fine. But hard no to anything fancy like dyes cosmetics, special weapons, etc. That stuff is better suited to things like arenas.
Easiest way to lose casual players. And this game doesn't run without them. They are the majority.
SilverBride wrote: »Increased rewards for completing veteran vs normal are only fair because you already spending more time and effort doing it.
If a player is forced to complete veteran content, as was the case with Cadwell's Silver and Gold, then better rewards would make sense. But that is not what is happening here. Players asking for veteran overland say they find the fights too easy and not engaging and want a more difficult experience to enhance their immersion. This is something they are asking for, not being forced into, and there should not be increased rewards for it. The more immersive experience is the reward.Never mind that developers themselves stated that one of the main reasons they hesitant on doing this experiment, because they are not sure how to incentivize it.
When Rich Lambert addressed that he didn't say they were hesitant to do this or that they were even considering it. What he said was:
"Would it be an option just to give people the choice? It is not as simple as just flip a switch and make things more difficult. There is a TON of work and then as Lucky mentioned earlier you have to also incentivize that. Like just making something more difficult for no reason, if you’re not going to get anything out of it why do it? The satisfaction's there sure but players are always going to do the thing that is the most efficient and is the least difficult thing for their time."
So, you know like I said, we went down that route. We built the game with difficulty in mind and 2/3rds of the game was never played by players so we changed it. - Rich Lambert
spartaxoxo wrote: »We're just speculating the idea, not the finer details of rewards. Normal mode player 1 gets 1k coins, hard mode player 2 gets 1.1k coins if needed... just add something for the players that want the challenge
Something like a bit more coin and exp wouldn't be objectionable to me. Or even something like the same gear drops for both, but one is blue and one is green quality. That sort of small thing.
But I really do have to state I am totally opposed to something like motifs, dyes, achievements, etc. Because Overland content is one and done content, and is supposed to be unifying. I can personally do vet content no problem, but I know people who cannot. One of the people I play with in this game I know irl and he is 100% disabled. That there is content both get the same rewards is meaningful to me. I know for a fact he'd quit, for one. But also I like the spirit of it. That there is content in this game we can all do, and then content for people who want a bit of an extra challenge.
Arguably, the overland and it's quests are the largest part of this game. Telling every player that wants a challenge and potentially more rewards when questing that they should just go do vet dungeons isn't really balanced imo. There needs to be some options for such a large chunk of the game. Everyone wants a different experience when questing.
Franchise408 wrote: »Anyone who is playing on normal instead of vet, gear doesn't matter, so the difference between green / blue, or blue / purple is 100% irrelevant to players playing on normal.
Franchise408 wrote: »The gear that drops in overland zones are not the sets that are being used for content where gear is a factor. Outside of maybe Mother's Sorrow, which at this point is being phased out of the meta anyways, nobody is using overland gear for gear dependent content, so anyone playing normal is not going to be missing out on anything.
Franchise408 wrote: »The ability to upgrade from green to blue or even blue to purple via crafting skills is so easy that players playing on normal won't be missing out on top quality gear, because they will be able to have their gear obtained on normal upgraded with ease.
Franchise408 wrote: »In MMO's, it is standard that there is a higher level of loot for higher level of content...
SilverBride wrote: »Then why should there be better gear for players who run veteran overland if it's not going to help them either?
SydneyGrey wrote: »Overland content is fine. The people on this forum tend to be the die-hard players who have been here for years, and they've already mastered the game, so they find overland easy. New players do NOT find it that easy.
You need to continually add harder content for the veteran players, while keeping most overland areas relatively easy. Basically, don't change the game just because the veteran players yell the loudest.
I remember being a brand new player and having a tough time getting through a delve. Now I can breeze through a delve easily, but that doesn't mean I'm going to suggest making all the delves harder just because I personally can do them easily now. I've just mastered the game like the other veteran players have. I think a lot of players have forgotten what it's like to be a new player with zero gold and zero armor.
SydneyGrey wrote: »Overland content is fine. The people on this forum tend to be the die-hard players who have been here for years, and they've already mastered the game, so they find overland easy. New players do NOT find it that easy.
You need to continually add harder content for the veteran players, while keeping most overland areas relatively easy. Basically, don't change the game just because the veteran players yell the loudest.
I remember being a brand new player and having a tough time getting through a delve. Now I can breeze through a delve easily, but that doesn't mean I'm going to suggest making all the delves harder just because I personally can do them easily now. I've just mastered the game like the other veteran players have. I think a lot of players have forgotten what it's like to be a new player with zero gold and zero armor.
People that want a harder challenge should be able to get a series of debuffs on them to make the encounters a bit more difficult for them. This is what this thread is about, finding ways around this issue with suggestions. Not stating over and over again how all us vet players should go do dungeons. The majority of this game is overland, we have every right to come up with suggestions on how we can make this content more enjoyable for everyone as long as it doesn't affect others.
SilverBride wrote: »My feedback is that I am against a separate veteran overland instance, optional or otherwise, but am perfectly fine with player debuffs and optional veteran story bosses. I believe that any solution must not separate the playerbase or take a lot of valuable manpower and resources away from the rest of the game.
We're just speculating the idea, not the finer details of rewards. Normal mode player 1 gets 1k coins, hard mode player 2 gets 1.1k coins if needed... just add something for the players that want the challenge
SimonThesis wrote: »Mobs already adjust to your level, I think after max level they should also adjust to your gear. If you're in gold perfected trial and perfected arena sets they should be more challenging. If your just wearing crafted gear they should be easier. Rewards stay the same. This option would please all involved, want a harder experience wear your trial gear, want an easier casual experience just put on whatever.
.But the CP progression presents an ominous and growing dilemma to the future of this game.
SimonThesis wrote: »Mobs already adjust to your level, I think after max level they should also adjust to your gear. If you're in gold perfected trial and perfected arena sets they should be more challenging. If your just wearing crafted gear they should be easier. Rewards stay the same. This option would please all involved, want a harder experience wear your trial gear, want an easier casual experience just put on whatever.
We're just speculating the idea, not the finer details of rewards. Normal mode player 1 gets 1k coins, hard mode player 2 gets 1.1k coins if needed... just add something for the players that want the challenge
The extra reward is that you would feel more engaged and challenged by the more difficult overland. Isn't that what you keep saying you want? Then that should be plenty. If you want extra rewards, you go to trials and vet content.
Choosing the more difficult option doesn't make you special, doesn't make you a better player (I'm betting there will be skilled players who do NOT choose the more difficult overland option), doesn't make you deserve anything more than players who don't choose it. It would just mean you want a challenge when you play overland.
I would be perfectly fine with an optional hard mode for overland. I would oppose any extra rewards for players who choose that option. Rewards should be the same for normal and hard mode overland. [snip]
[Edit for Bait.]