RIP SORC!
-
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭Only Sorcs don't heal through damage, crit surge has a cool down and does not proc at all in PvP, and the 8% off of frags is pitiful seeing as it is just dodged or reflected most of the time. Templars NB DK all heal through damage, all have real mitigation techniques and now lol all have Shields. But hey we got negate LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »[ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Found the build with no reg.
Seriously i´m gonna check back when you´ve actually played solo/smallscale with 6s shields and realized that you´re unable to finish off people without exposing yourself.
Pretty sure that's the point. Now you need to decide between offense or defense at crucial moments. So sorry you can't go full offensive while being full defensive at the same time. People run around in light armor right now without shields to finish people off with. We go in and sacrifice defense for 9ffesnsive capabilities. Stop acting like Sorcs are some weak pathetic bunch that drops in a second from the wind blowing without shields up. Every mag user that is not a sorc does that every fight. Add more health. Add imoen. Add resistance. Slot mutagen. Increase healthis recovery. There are ways around your issue. If you can't fight without having a shield up 24/7 than your just not that good.
Sadly i can do just that on a magica nightblade ranged build. Now with the added benefit of having a shield against everything.
The problem with sorc is they lack a reliable way to refill their HP bar when they have casted a ward after loosing HP (they need atleast 1 gcd more than any other class).
Having to fight without a shield up as a magblade or magplar is something entirely different than doing that on a magica sorc (i would know bc i play all of those in pvp). If you´re unable to understand why you´re lacking the basis to discuss the topic. If you do understand why you´re ignoring that knowledge deliberatly to do something that mentioning is against the forum tos.
Stop trying to insult me with lame l2p comments.Edited by Derra on 29 April 2016 19:12<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 505 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »I see your point and the perspective your coming from. I really do. However, you make it seem like sorcs are dead and gone. Your perspective also over glorifies the other classes while underselling the sorc.
A mag templar basically has BOL and jabs. BOL requires going full defensive in order to survive. Jabs, although a powerful attack when followed thru on, is still easily avoidable and spamming it will get you killed against a competent player. It requires a combination to properly execute the ability against a competent player. therefore, the heals are not necessarily guaranteed. Overall, a mag templar has to go full defensive to stay protected or full offense with one ability that can not be spammed against a good player making the heals sporadic.
A mag dk effectively has flame lash, wings, and burning embers. Both of these heals leave something to be desired. Additionally, both require attacking another player. wings are a solid hard counter to projectiles. Overall, one attack requires full offense to obtain. The other requires at least attacking once and can be purged making the heals sporadic.Wings are ineffective against melee and aoe while also having a short duration and projectile cap.
A mag nb essentially has swallow soul and sap essence. Both require the player to attack another player. Swallow soul was over performing and they were right to nerf that ability. However, although the dps was soild it still wasnt going to kill a player. Sap requires being fighting close to multiple enemies which makes it a risk/reward ability. Overall, swallow soul requires attacking another player, but is otherwise sustainable while leaving dps just low enough to not sway the outcome of a battle. Sap dps is alright, but to get the heals requires attacking multiple enemies which leaves the player vulnerable to attack.
A mag sorc basically has a shield, surge, and dark magic. Surge is not always guaranteed and requires attacking another player. Dark magic requires attacking another player. The shield can operate as a full defensive ability when getting attacked hard. It can also operate as a buff right before going on the offensive giving a hard counter to attacks for a period of time while going full offensive. Overall, a competent sorc will proc surge often enough to make it semi-sustainable while also adding in the fact that many of the attacks used to get surge heals will also get you Dark magic heals making the heals more potent. Additionally, shields are a hard counter to all attacks and can can be used both to protect while going full offensive or to be spammed for full defense.
In the end i give the nod to sorcs.
All four of my levelled toons are magicka so I'll just focus on those. I like them all equally, just sad to see one of them in hard times (well, he's gone to join the dk in hard times.) So in terms of unique survival skills,
Templars have:
-cleanses (ok, it's nerfed a bit now, but still cheaper than purge with way more utility) which also provides easy major mending and snare and decent HoT
-jabs heal, which is nerfed too, but you still have major mending. Also a strong spammable.
-BoL
-tempted to talk about radiant oppression, but we're talking about survival abilities here...ah what the hell, I mentioned it.
DKs:
-what you said. I don't think they're in great shape in PvP right now. However, Battle Roar is huge and needs to be mentioned.
Nbs:
-Funnel and sap
-fear
Sorcs:
-Don't think the healing from dark magic deserves to be mentioned. Even if you have 30k health, that's 1200 healing per cast. You cast maybe on average 1 dark magic spell every 5 seconds? That's pitiful healing.
-so basically just surge.
You fail to mention shields for sorc. You know the strongest hard counter survival tool for a class. You also mention fear. We are not talking about a cc. Also, it is important to remember how the heals by each class is recieved. Only sorcs have a hard counter to all attacks. Next would be temos. One big difference here is that a temp when cc can't heal. A sorcs shield can save a cc sorc.
Well, every class will have a shield next patch, so it's really a non-issue that sorcs got a shield.
This is poor mentality. First we were talking about class specific skills. If you want to reach outside the class for heals go to restore staff. Additionally, now sorcs have 2 shields that can block eveything. So they still have advantage of shield stacking and eating more damage.0 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »I see your point and the perspective your coming from. I really do. However, you make it seem like sorcs are dead and gone. Your perspective also over glorifies the other classes while underselling the sorc.
A mag templar basically has BOL and jabs. BOL requires going full defensive in order to survive. Jabs, although a powerful attack when followed thru on, is still easily avoidable and spamming it will get you killed against a competent player. It requires a combination to properly execute the ability against a competent player. therefore, the heals are not necessarily guaranteed. Overall, a mag templar has to go full defensive to stay protected or full offense with one ability that can not be spammed against a good player making the heals sporadic.
A mag dk effectively has flame lash, wings, and burning embers. Both of these heals leave something to be desired. Additionally, both require attacking another player. wings are a solid hard counter to projectiles. Overall, one attack requires full offense to obtain. The other requires at least attacking once and can be purged making the heals sporadic.Wings are ineffective against melee and aoe while also having a short duration and projectile cap.
A mag nb essentially has swallow soul and sap essence. Both require the player to attack another player. Swallow soul was over performing and they were right to nerf that ability. However, although the dps was soild it still wasnt going to kill a player. Sap requires being fighting close to multiple enemies which makes it a risk/reward ability. Overall, swallow soul requires attacking another player, but is otherwise sustainable while leaving dps just low enough to not sway the outcome of a battle. Sap dps is alright, but to get the heals requires attacking multiple enemies which leaves the player vulnerable to attack.
A mag sorc basically has a shield, surge, and dark magic. Surge is not always guaranteed and requires attacking another player. Dark magic requires attacking another player. The shield can operate as a full defensive ability when getting attacked hard. It can also operate as a buff right before going on the offensive giving a hard counter to attacks for a period of time while going full offensive. Overall, a competent sorc will proc surge often enough to make it semi-sustainable while also adding in the fact that many of the attacks used to get surge heals will also get you Dark magic heals making the heals more potent. Additionally, shields are a hard counter to all attacks and can can be used both to protect while going full offensive or to be spammed for full defense.
In the end i give the nod to sorcs.
All four of my levelled toons are magicka so I'll just focus on those. I like them all equally, just sad to see one of them in hard times (well, he's gone to join the dk in hard times.) So in terms of unique survival skills,
Templars have:
-cleanses (ok, it's nerfed a bit now, but still cheaper than purge with way more utility) which also provides easy major mending and snare and decent HoT
-jabs heal, which is nerfed too, but you still have major mending. Also a strong spammable.
-BoL
-tempted to talk about radiant oppression, but we're talking about survival abilities here...ah what the hell, I mentioned it.
DKs:
-what you said. I don't think they're in great shape in PvP right now. However, Battle Roar is huge and needs to be mentioned.
Nbs:
-Funnel and sap
-fear
Sorcs:
-Don't think the healing from dark magic deserves to be mentioned. Even if you have 30k health, that's 1200 healing per cast. You cast maybe on average 1 dark magic spell every 5 seconds? That's pitiful healing.
-so basically just surge.
You fail to mention shields for sorc. You know the strongest hard counter survival tool for a class. You also mention fear. We are not talking about a cc. Also, it is important to remember how the heals by each class is recieved. Only sorcs have a hard counter to all attacks. Next would be temos. One big difference here is that a temp when cc can't heal. A sorcs shield can save a cc sorc.
Well, every class will have a shield next patch, so it's really a non-issue that sorcs got a shield.
This is poor mentality. First we were talking about class specific skills. If you want to reach outside the class for heals go to restore staff. Additionally, now sorcs have 2 shields that can block eveything. So they still have advantage of shield stacking and eating more damage.
Yes, sorcs are forced to use a resto while literally every other class don't. A sorc will forever be forced into the same cookie cutter build while every other class have so many more options. If you can't see that you've never played a sorc before.R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD4 -
Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Found the build with no reg.
Seriously i´m gonna check back when you´ve actually played solo/smallscale with 6s shields and realized that you´re unable to finish off people without exposing yourself.
2100 regen, try again
An awful lot changes for a Sorc, or any player in general, when they stop using templates someone else thought was BiS and posted on youtube.
Like for real, at least 80 percent of the garbage people run is only considered "good and best" because some streamer made a 1vX video with it, the lemmings copied it, and found varying degrees of success, therefore the streamer must have been God to come up with something so perfect.
No, what really happened is they copied a humdrum run of the mill min max that exploited current game weaknesses to make it look stronger than it was fundamentally. A good template is something that can remain virtually unchanged from patch to patch, needing only minor tweaks.
Same build principle I have used since forever, and it doesnt change to accommodate the new FOTM. Timeless, as you will. Also saves me a crapload of money since I might have to update 1 or 2 pieces vs the entire gearsetup every time zenimax decides they want to change something.Edited by Rylana on 29 April 2016 19:21@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
Aldmeri Dominion: Rylana Dionysis - DK - AR 25 == Kailiana - NB - AR 21 == Minerva Dionysis - Temp - AR 21 == Victoria Dionysis - Sorc - AR 13
Daggerfall Covenant: Dannika Dionysis - DK - AR 21 == The Catman Rises - Temp - AR 15 (Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade)
Forum LOL Champion (retired) == Black Belt in Ballista-Fu == The Last Vice Member == Praise Cheesus == Electro-Goblin1 -
dagonbeer✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »This is poor mentality. First we were talking about class specific skills. If you want to reach outside the class for heals go to restore staff. Additionally, now sorcs have 2 shields that can block eveything. So they still have advantage of shield stacking and eating more damage.
That was the reason I omitted shields from the sorc's survival toolkit, since everyone has them now (I was talking about UNIQUE class skills.) Not to mention that other classes (with superior passive healing) synergizes better with short duration universal shields.
Resto staves are not the answer since sorcs don't have a class dps spammable, and they'll need to switch bars to do healing (we all know how reliable switching bars is.) Anyone can slot annulment on any bars regardless of weapons. Finally, resto staves do provide a BoL-type replacement, but funnel/jabs/embers still provide reliable healing during damage that are unique to those classes.
0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Found the build with no reg.
Seriously i´m gonna check back when you´ve actually played solo/smallscale with 6s shields and realized that you´re unable to finish off people without exposing yourself.
2100 regen, try again
Maybe you´ve found s.th. i havent or have access to sets i don´t have.
Only thing i can access that would put me in those regions statwise is a TBS setup which isn´t too tempting as it would mean giving up incredibly useful set bonuses or impen - and still having fairly low spelldmg if it´s a staffbuild.Edited by Derra on 29 April 2016 19:21<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »[ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Found the build with no reg.
Seriously i´m gonna check back when you´ve actually played solo/smallscale with 6s shields and realized that you´re unable to finish off people without exposing yourself.
Pretty sure that's the point. Now you need to decide between offense or defense at crucial moments. So sorry you can't go full offensive while being full defensive at the same time. People run around in light armor right now without shields to finish people off with. We go in and sacrifice defense for 9ffesnsive capabilities. Stop acting like Sorcs are some weak pathetic bunch that drops in a second from the wind blowing without shields up. Every mag user that is not a sorc does that every fight. Add more health. Add imoen. Add resistance. Slot mutagen. Increase healthis recovery. There are ways around your issue. If you can't fight without having a shield up 24/7 than your just not that good.
Sadly i can do just that on a magica nightblade ranged build. Now with the added benefit of having a shield against everything.
The problem with sorc is they lack a reliable way to refill their HP bar when they have casted a ward after loosing HP (they need atleast 1 gcd more than any other class).
Having to fight without a shield up as a magblade or magplar is something entirely different than doing that on a magica sorc (i would know bc i play all of those in pvp). If you´re unable to understand why you´re lacking the basis to discuss the topic. If you do understand why you´re ignoring that knowledge deliberatly to do something that mentioning is against the forum tos.
Stop trying to insult me with lame l2p comments.
Your refusal to go outside of the class for heals is a l2p issue. Why do all classes have to have a variant of the same thing? Other classes go outside of class for a shield if they want. So why can't a sorc go outside of class for a heal?0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »I see your point and the perspective your coming from. I really do. However, you make it seem like sorcs are dead and gone. Your perspective also over glorifies the other classes while underselling the sorc.
A mag templar basically has BOL and jabs. BOL requires going full defensive in order to survive. Jabs, although a powerful attack when followed thru on, is still easily avoidable and spamming it will get you killed against a competent player. It requires a combination to properly execute the ability against a competent player. therefore, the heals are not necessarily guaranteed. Overall, a mag templar has to go full defensive to stay protected or full offense with one ability that can not be spammed against a good player making the heals sporadic.
A mag dk effectively has flame lash, wings, and burning embers. Both of these heals leave something to be desired. Additionally, both require attacking another player. wings are a solid hard counter to projectiles. Overall, one attack requires full offense to obtain. The other requires at least attacking once and can be purged making the heals sporadic.Wings are ineffective against melee and aoe while also having a short duration and projectile cap.
A mag nb essentially has swallow soul and sap essence. Both require the player to attack another player. Swallow soul was over performing and they were right to nerf that ability. However, although the dps was soild it still wasnt going to kill a player. Sap requires being fighting close to multiple enemies which makes it a risk/reward ability. Overall, swallow soul requires attacking another player, but is otherwise sustainable while leaving dps just low enough to not sway the outcome of a battle. Sap dps is alright, but to get the heals requires attacking multiple enemies which leaves the player vulnerable to attack.
A mag sorc basically has a shield, surge, and dark magic. Surge is not always guaranteed and requires attacking another player. Dark magic requires attacking another player. The shield can operate as a full defensive ability when getting attacked hard. It can also operate as a buff right before going on the offensive giving a hard counter to attacks for a period of time while going full offensive. Overall, a competent sorc will proc surge often enough to make it semi-sustainable while also adding in the fact that many of the attacks used to get surge heals will also get you Dark magic heals making the heals more potent. Additionally, shields are a hard counter to all attacks and can can be used both to protect while going full offensive or to be spammed for full defense.
In the end i give the nod to sorcs.
All four of my levelled toons are magicka so I'll just focus on those. I like them all equally, just sad to see one of them in hard times (well, he's gone to join the dk in hard times.) So in terms of unique survival skills,
Templars have:
-cleanses (ok, it's nerfed a bit now, but still cheaper than purge with way more utility) which also provides easy major mending and snare and decent HoT
-jabs heal, which is nerfed too, but you still have major mending. Also a strong spammable.
-BoL
-tempted to talk about radiant oppression, but we're talking about survival abilities here...ah what the hell, I mentioned it.
DKs:
-what you said. I don't think they're in great shape in PvP right now. However, Battle Roar is huge and needs to be mentioned.
Nbs:
-Funnel and sap
-fear
Sorcs:
-Don't think the healing from dark magic deserves to be mentioned. Even if you have 30k health, that's 1200 healing per cast. You cast maybe on average 1 dark magic spell every 5 seconds? That's pitiful healing.
-so basically just surge.
You fail to mention shields for sorc. You know the strongest hard counter survival tool for a class. You also mention fear. We are not talking about a cc. Also, it is important to remember how the heals by each class is recieved. Only sorcs have a hard counter to all attacks. Next would be temos. One big difference here is that a temp when cc can't heal. A sorcs shield can save a cc sorc.
Well, every class will have a shield next patch, so it's really a non-issue that sorcs got a shield.
This is poor mentality. First we were talking about class specific skills. If you want to reach outside the class for heals go to restore staff. Additionally, now sorcs have 2 shields that can block eveything. So they still have advantage of shield stacking and eating more damage.
Yes, sorcs are forced to use a resto while literally every other class don't. A sorc will forever be forced into the same cookie cutter build while every other class have so many more options. If you can't see that you've never played a sorc before.
Every single mag build except templar is forced to go rest because 8th healing ward being the best heal for those classes. Just as every Stam build runs rally for a reliable burst heal.0 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »[ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Found the build with no reg.
Seriously i´m gonna check back when you´ve actually played solo/smallscale with 6s shields and realized that you´re unable to finish off people without exposing yourself.
Pretty sure that's the point. Now you need to decide between offense or defense at crucial moments. So sorry you can't go full offensive while being full defensive at the same time. People run around in light armor right now without shields to finish people off with. We go in and sacrifice defense for 9ffesnsive capabilities. Stop acting like Sorcs are some weak pathetic bunch that drops in a second from the wind blowing without shields up. Every mag user that is not a sorc does that every fight. Add more health. Add imoen. Add resistance. Slot mutagen. Increase healthis recovery. There are ways around your issue. If you can't fight without having a shield up 24/7 than your just not that good.
Sadly i can do just that on a magica nightblade ranged build. Now with the added benefit of having a shield against everything.
The problem with sorc is they lack a reliable way to refill their HP bar when they have casted a ward after loosing HP (they need atleast 1 gcd more than any other class).
Having to fight without a shield up as a magblade or magplar is something entirely different than doing that on a magica sorc (i would know bc i play all of those in pvp). If you´re unable to understand why you´re lacking the basis to discuss the topic. If you do understand why you´re ignoring that knowledge deliberatly to do something that mentioning is against the forum tos.
Stop trying to insult me with lame l2p comments.
Your refusal to go outside of the class for heals is a l2p issue. Why do all classes have to have a variant of the same thing? Other classes go outside of class for a shield if they want. So why can't a sorc go outside of class for a heal?
Just because other classes don't have to give up a lot of damage to slot a shield, while sorcs lose out on damage etc that other classes don't need to sacrifice. Not to mention the bugs with actually switching bars.R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD0 -
Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Found the build with no reg.
Seriously i´m gonna check back when you´ve actually played solo/smallscale with 6s shields and realized that you´re unable to finish off people without exposing yourself.
I couldn't help but giggle at this...Rylana please don't expose yourself to finish people off.
Secret to my success, Electrogoblin wears a trenchcoat.@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
Aldmeri Dominion: Rylana Dionysis - DK - AR 25 == Kailiana - NB - AR 21 == Minerva Dionysis - Temp - AR 21 == Victoria Dionysis - Sorc - AR 13
Daggerfall Covenant: Dannika Dionysis - DK - AR 21 == The Catman Rises - Temp - AR 15 (Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade)
Forum LOL Champion (retired) == Black Belt in Ballista-Fu == The Last Vice Member == Praise Cheesus == Electro-Goblin1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »[ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Found the build with no reg.
Seriously i´m gonna check back when you´ve actually played solo/smallscale with 6s shields and realized that you´re unable to finish off people without exposing yourself.
Pretty sure that's the point. Now you need to decide between offense or defense at crucial moments. So sorry you can't go full offensive while being full defensive at the same time. People run around in light armor right now without shields to finish people off with. We go in and sacrifice defense for 9ffesnsive capabilities. Stop acting like Sorcs are some weak pathetic bunch that drops in a second from the wind blowing without shields up. Every mag user that is not a sorc does that every fight. Add more health. Add imoen. Add resistance. Slot mutagen. Increase healthis recovery. There are ways around your issue. If you can't fight without having a shield up 24/7 than your just not that good.
Sadly i can do just that on a magica nightblade ranged build. Now with the added benefit of having a shield against everything.
The problem with sorc is they lack a reliable way to refill their HP bar when they have casted a ward after loosing HP (they need atleast 1 gcd more than any other class).
Having to fight without a shield up as a magblade or magplar is something entirely different than doing that on a magica sorc (i would know bc i play all of those in pvp). If you´re unable to understand why you´re lacking the basis to discuss the topic. If you do understand why you´re ignoring that knowledge deliberatly to do something that mentioning is against the forum tos.
Stop trying to insult me with lame l2p comments.
Your refusal to go outside of the class for heals is a l2p issue. Why do all classes have to have a variant of the same thing? Other classes go outside of class for a shield if they want. So why can't a sorc go outside of class for a heal?
Read again what i wrote. Try to understand why those words you typed don´t make sense. Afterwards write again.
I´m not even going to start about the other giant leaking whole concerning logic in that comment of yours. Yes l2p comments are pathetic in that regard and imo an deliberate attempt at violating the forum tos.Edited by Derra on 29 April 2016 19:26<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »its moved the sorc away from no skill to skill again. No longer will you have pug sorcs being better then you just on class design. Hopefully they move all classes to more skill and less class mechanic winning designs.
THIS, finally someone gets it.
Us OG's that played sorc long before the 1.6 reroll craze have watched our class get ridiculed and attacked for months because of the terribad fotm rerolls using cheese templates.
The men will be separated from the boys now, and good riddance if you ask me. The good sorcs will stay, the bads will go away. And those of us that stay, wont really change to our opponents, we will be as strong as we ever were.
Agree. The thread should say "rip bad sorcs".
Except almost the classes stronger than sorcerer is still stronger. And most of the other classes have received buffs.
I wrote that in the context of reduced duration of hardened ward. Good sorcs won't be affected by the reduced duration in pvp, bad sorcs might. Every other magicka build getting the annulment buff is an issue for sorcs though. Can you imagine the outrage if annulment had been given a reflect mechanic instead, or a cloak mechanic?
I´d argue also above average sorcs are affected by this change.
Shields do run out consistently when fighting overly defensive players. It takes a while to take down anyone who has decided to go full turtle mode.
With this change you have to effectively reduce your offense on those players by 16% if you don´t let your guard down.
At the same time it has become easier for defensive players to turtle up because using harness on a magica build is no longer a tradeoff but a no brainer - so everyone´s gonna run with healing ward + harness + their classes other defensive abilities.
Combine that "passive" nerf to pressure sorc builds with the nerf to dawnbreaker and loss of detonation dmg for burst sorc setups they have effectively managed to nerf burst builds (taking away abilities) alongside sustained dmg ones (more time needed to keep defenses up).
I´m sure ppl will manage but i´m also certain it´s not the minor or nonissue some people make it out to be."Ultimately, we want to see you commit to being either offensive or defensive when using damage shields, instead of both simultaneously. Decreasing the duration of all damage shields to 6 seconds means that they are just as powerful for stopping high amounts of burst damage. However, there is now less safety with the decreased duration and more skill is required to activate damage shields at the correct time. If you spend 6 seconds trying to finish off someone and get a kill, your shields will drop and you’ll be vulnerable to a counter attack. This change allows damage shields to be strong, lets you continue stacking shields if you wish, but is much more challenging to play offensively at the same time."
Makes all kinds of sense to me, not sure what's the problem here.
The problem is a NB for example does not let their guard down while playing offensively. Aswell as a templar or DK. They all have reliable high passive healing associated to their main DPS abilities.
If you have a reliable steady heal having reactionary defenses work (or an instant burstheal...).
However a sorc does not have that. Their defense is a shield with no reliable healing mechanics compared to other classes.
Which now results in sorc being the only class being 100% vulnerable when on the offense.
Alongside this sorcerers are the only class without access to strong DOT abilities (those reduce the need to be offensive constantly as they keep pressure on the enemy even while defensive abilities are casted) - as a consequence sorcerers need the highest offensive uptime to kill an enemy.
I agree that sorc burst builds were a little too potent (i have not played deto dawnbreaker myself as i don´t like 1 shotting ppl). But nerfing burst builds and then taking away the ability to constantly pressure aswell is a little over the top imho.
Why would a play a sorc now when i can just play my NB that has better burst, a better teleport, better CC and is safer to play at the same time?
I see your point and the perspective your coming from. I really do. However, you make it seem like sorcs are dead and gone. Your perspective also over glorifies the other classes while underselling the sorc.
A mag templar basically has BOL and jabs. BOL requires going full defensive in order to survive. Jabs, although a powerful attack when followed thru on, is still easily avoidable and spamming it will get you killed against a competent player. It requires a combination to properly execute the ability against a competent player. therefore, the heals are not necessarily guaranteed. Overall, a mag templar has to go full defensive to stay protected or full offense with one ability that can not be spammed against a good player making the heals sporadic.
A mag dk effectively has flame lash, wings, and burning embers. Both of these heals leave something to be desired. Additionally, both require attacking another player. wings are a solid hard counter to projectiles. Overall, one attack requires full offense to obtain. The other requires at least attacking once and can be purged making the heals sporadic.Wings are ineffective against melee and aoe while also having a short duration and projectile cap.
A mag nb essentially has swallow soul and sap essence. Both require the player to attack another player. Swallow soul was over performing and they were right to nerf that ability. However, although the dps was soild it still wasnt going to kill a player. Sap requires being fighting close to multiple enemies which makes it a risk/reward ability. Overall, swallow soul requires attacking another player, but is otherwise sustainable while leaving dps just low enough to not sway the outcome of a battle. Sap dps is alright, but to get the heals requires attacking multiple enemies which leaves the player vulnerable to attack.
A mag sorc basically has a shield, surge, and dark magic. Surge is not always guaranteed and requires attacking another player. Dark magic requires attacking another player. The shield can operate as a full defensive ability when getting attacked hard. It can also operate as a buff right before going on the offensive giving a hard counter to attacks for a period of time while going full offensive. Overall, a competent sorc will proc surge often enough to make it semi-sustainable while also adding in the fact that many of the attacks used to get surge heals will also get you Dark magic heals making the heals more potent. Additionally, shields are a hard counter to all attacks and can can be used both to protect while going full offensive or to be spammed for full defense.
In the end i give the nod to sorcs.
You literally just stated the problem we are having right now.
Surge is unreliable, and borderline USELESS with this new "every build has a shield meta" (noncrittable). So our only reliable defense is, drumroll.... Ward. Every class now has that defense. So in other words we quite literally don't have a unique defense, like every other class has. (I'm sorry pets don't count I refuse to gimp my bar on both sides for a heal that can die...)
Bad Sorcs are distracted by the 6 seconds, those Sorcs that have been adapting since 1.6 think it's BS that EVERY class is being given our class defining defense ability.
If they want to go through with this massively BUFF dark exchange, that can be our new class defining ability.
A buff to dark exchange would go a long long way to fixing what's been left broken. So we're looking at a morph that returns health as well, scaled from the max stat?
0 -
Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Found the build with no reg.
Seriously i´m gonna check back when you´ve actually played solo/smallscale with 6s shields and realized that you´re unable to finish off people without exposing yourself.
2100 regen, try again
Maybe you´ve found s.th. i havent or have access to sets i don´t have.
Only thing i can access that would put me in those regions statwise is a TBS setup which isn´t too tempting as it would mean giving up incredibly useful set bonuses or impen - and still having fairly low spelldmg if it´s a staffbuild.
The spelldamage is relatively mediocre, buffs to just about 3000. But it has good penetration. I can throw on the dual swords and get back to 3400 if I want to, but ive found that limits ultimate gen at range so I stopped.
Still frags people for over 10k on a proc, so does enough damage for what its made for. Its not meant to be a pure damage spec, I tend to lead groups with it, it needs to be tough and hard to bring down. Tradeoff, and it happens to make 1v1 hilarious because even against the likes of Xev who can hit really really hard against most, it results in a stalemate
And no its not twiceborn, its a mix of kags, willpower, endurance, magnus, and prismatic enchants.
A long standing change to the build I have not yet done, but want to, is to swap out the endurance parts for willpower, swap the weapons over to either magnus or kags, and put a kena shoulder and blood spawn helm on the sucker. Lose 1400 health but gain 170 spell damage and 130 stam regen. (as well as trait options on the weapons) Alas the BS helm still eludes me to this day.Edited by Rylana on 29 April 2016 19:39@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
Aldmeri Dominion: Rylana Dionysis - DK - AR 25 == Kailiana - NB - AR 21 == Minerva Dionysis - Temp - AR 21 == Victoria Dionysis - Sorc - AR 13
Daggerfall Covenant: Dannika Dionysis - DK - AR 21 == The Catman Rises - Temp - AR 15 (Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade)
Forum LOL Champion (retired) == Black Belt in Ballista-Fu == The Last Vice Member == Praise Cheesus == Electro-Goblin0 -
dagonbeer✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »Every single mag build except templar is forced to go rest because 8th healing ward being the best heal for those classes. Just as every Stam build runs rally for a reliable burst heal.
With my magblade I go ward ally, just so that I don't risk the shield going to someone else (my funnel takes care of the rest.) Now with Annulment I don't need resto at all.0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »This is poor mentality. First we were talking about class specific skills. If you want to reach outside the class for heals go to restore staff. Additionally, now sorcs have 2 shields that can block eveything. So they still have advantage of shield stacking and eating more damage.
That was the reason I omitted shields from the sorc's survival toolkit, since everyone has them now (I was talking about UNIQUE class skills.) Not to mention that other classes (with superior passive healing) synergizes better with short duration universal shields.
Resto staves are not the answer since sorcs don't have a class dps spammable, and they'll need to switch bars to do healing (we all know how reliable switching bars is.) Anyone can slot annulment on any bars regardless of weapons. Finally, resto staves do provide a BoL-type replacement, but funnel/jabs/embers still provide reliable healing during damage that are unique to those classes.
Sorcs still have the longest shield. And you can't just omit shields from Sorcs tolls just because everyone has one now. It still remains that Sorcs have more which is for some reason being completely understated in this topic. Additionally, I don't believe in giving every class a variation of the same attacks. Also, jabs are unreliable. Dk heals are alright but still require melee range. Nb heal just got nerfed (rightly fully so imo). Additionally, swallow soul doesn't kill anyone. That build requires a burst combo to bring people down. Again, a sorcs can get hot from quick siphon and r rapid regen. Your failure to want to go outside your build to equip these skills is your fault. Additionally, sorcs don't rely on spamming an attack. A sorcs is built for timed bust damage. Perhaps if this is not your playstyle you should play another class. Why should a class change to tailor your playstyle?0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Found the build with no reg.
Seriously i´m gonna check back when you´ve actually played solo/smallscale with 6s shields and realized that you´re unable to finish off people without exposing yourself.
2100 regen, try again
Maybe you´ve found s.th. i havent or have access to sets i don´t have.
Only thing i can access that would put me in those regions statwise is a TBS setup which isn´t too tempting as it would mean giving up incredibly useful set bonuses or impen - and still having fairly low spelldmg if it´s a staffbuild.
The spelldamage is relatively mediocre, buffs to just about 3000. But it has good penetration. I can throw on the dual swords and get back to 3400 if I want to, but ive found that limits ultimate gen at range so I stopped.
Still frags people for over 10k on a proc, so does enough damage for what its made for. Its not meant to be a pure damage spec, I tend to lead groups with it, it needs to be tough and hard to bring down. Tradeoff, and it happens to make 1v1 hilarious because even against the likes of Xev who can hit really really hard against most, it results in a stalemate.
You can count me out. As i have simply no idea how to get to 30k hp 18k stam 39k magica with 3000 spelldmg and 2100 magreg on a staffbuild, except if this is with potion buff and continuous attack.
Only selfbuffed without potion *shrug*.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »[ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Found the build with no reg.
Seriously i´m gonna check back when you´ve actually played solo/smallscale with 6s shields and realized that you´re unable to finish off people without exposing yourself.
Pretty sure that's the point. Now you need to decide between offense or defense at crucial moments. So sorry you can't go full offensive while being full defensive at the same time. People run around in light armor right now without shields to finish people off with. We go in and sacrifice defense for 9ffesnsive capabilities. Stop acting like Sorcs are some weak pathetic bunch that drops in a second from the wind blowing without shields up. Every mag user that is not a sorc does that every fight. Add more health. Add imoen. Add resistance. Slot mutagen. Increase healthis recovery. There are ways around your issue. If you can't fight without having a shield up 24/7 than your just not that good.
Sadly i can do just that on a magica nightblade ranged build. Now with the added benefit of having a shield against everything.
The problem with sorc is they lack a reliable way to refill their HP bar when they have casted a ward after loosing HP (they need atleast 1 gcd more than any other class).
Having to fight without a shield up as a magblade or magplar is something entirely different than doing that on a magica sorc (i would know bc i play all of those in pvp). If you´re unable to understand why you´re lacking the basis to discuss the topic. If you do understand why you´re ignoring that knowledge deliberatly to do something that mentioning is against the forum tos.
Stop trying to insult me with lame l2p comments.
Your refusal to go outside of the class for heals is a l2p issue. Why do all classes have to have a variant of the same thing? Other classes go outside of class for a shield if they want. So why can't a sorc go outside of class for a heal?
Just because other classes don't have to give up a lot of damage to slot a shield, while sorcs lose out on damage etc that other classes don't need to sacrifice. Not to mention the bugs with actually switching bars.
What damage would a sorcs be giving up. Sorcs is about timed burst damage from curse, frag, dawnbreaker, details etc. Therefore, sorcs don't lose really much if any in terms of dps because of how the Blass is bu8lt. Other classes require more constant pressure with intermittent bursts of damage.0 -
Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Found the build with no reg.
Seriously i´m gonna check back when you´ve actually played solo/smallscale with 6s shields and realized that you´re unable to finish off people without exposing yourself.
2100 regen, try again
Maybe you´ve found s.th. i havent or have access to sets i don´t have.
Only thing i can access that would put me in those regions statwise is a TBS setup which isn´t too tempting as it would mean giving up incredibly useful set bonuses or impen - and still having fairly low spelldmg if it´s a staffbuild.
The spelldamage is relatively mediocre, buffs to just about 3000. But it has good penetration. I can throw on the dual swords and get back to 3400 if I want to, but ive found that limits ultimate gen at range so I stopped.
Still frags people for over 10k on a proc, so does enough damage for what its made for. Its not meant to be a pure damage spec, I tend to lead groups with it, it needs to be tough and hard to bring down. Tradeoff, and it happens to make 1v1 hilarious because even against the likes of Xev who can hit really really hard against most, it results in a stalemate.
You can count me out. As i have simply no idea how to get to 30k hp 18k stam 39k magica with 3000 spelldmg and 2100 magreg on a staffbuild, except if this is with potion buff and continuous attack.
Only selfbuffed without potion *shrug*.
Im also breton and youre high elf which seems weird to me, you should be able to hit those values easier than I do. An altmer should push 2300 or so regen on the same build.@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
Aldmeri Dominion: Rylana Dionysis - DK - AR 25 == Kailiana - NB - AR 21 == Minerva Dionysis - Temp - AR 21 == Victoria Dionysis - Sorc - AR 13
Daggerfall Covenant: Dannika Dionysis - DK - AR 21 == The Catman Rises - Temp - AR 15 (Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade)
Forum LOL Champion (retired) == Black Belt in Ballista-Fu == The Last Vice Member == Praise Cheesus == Electro-Goblin0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »[ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Found the build with no reg.
Seriously i´m gonna check back when you´ve actually played solo/smallscale with 6s shields and realized that you´re unable to finish off people without exposing yourself.
Pretty sure that's the point. Now you need to decide between offense or defense at crucial moments. So sorry you can't go full offensive while being full defensive at the same time. People run around in light armor right now without shields to finish people off with. We go in and sacrifice defense for 9ffesnsive capabilities. Stop acting like Sorcs are some weak pathetic bunch that drops in a second from the wind blowing without shields up. Every mag user that is not a sorc does that every fight. Add more health. Add imoen. Add resistance. Slot mutagen. Increase healthis recovery. There are ways around your issue. If you can't fight without having a shield up 24/7 than your just not that good.
Sadly i can do just that on a magica nightblade ranged build. Now with the added benefit of having a shield against everything.
The problem with sorc is they lack a reliable way to refill their HP bar when they have casted a ward after loosing HP (they need atleast 1 gcd more than any other class).
Having to fight without a shield up as a magblade or magplar is something entirely different than doing that on a magica sorc (i would know bc i play all of those in pvp). If you´re unable to understand why you´re lacking the basis to discuss the topic. If you do understand why you´re ignoring that knowledge deliberatly to do something that mentioning is against the forum tos.
Stop trying to insult me with lame l2p comments.
Your refusal to go outside of the class for heals is a l2p issue. Why do all classes have to have a variant of the same thing? Other classes go outside of class for a shield if they want. So why can't a sorc go outside of class for a heal?
Just because other classes don't have to give up a lot of damage to slot a shield, while sorcs lose out on damage etc that other classes don't need to sacrifice. Not to mention the bugs with actually switching bars.
What damage would a sorcs be giving up. Sorcs is about timed burst damage from curse, frag, dawnbreaker, details etc. Therefore, sorcs don't lose really much if any in terms of dps because of how the Blass is bu8lt. Other classes require more constant pressure with intermittent bursts of damage.
Funny thing is dawnbreaker just got changed to physical dmg aswell as detonation crippled against single opponents (not that i think it´s a bad thing - i hated that playstyle and did not play that way myself) - however it´s funny you state sorc being about timed burst when exactly that playstyle got hit even harder than sorc in general as two of it´s main abilities got flat out nerfed to the ground.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »[ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Found the build with no reg.
Seriously i´m gonna check back when you´ve actually played solo/smallscale with 6s shields and realized that you´re unable to finish off people without exposing yourself.
Pretty sure that's the point. Now you need to decide between offense or defense at crucial moments. So sorry you can't go full offensive while being full defensive at the same time. People run around in light armor right now without shields to finish people off with. We go in and sacrifice defense for 9ffesnsive capabilities. Stop acting like Sorcs are some weak pathetic bunch that drops in a second from the wind blowing without shields up. Every mag user that is not a sorc does that every fight. Add more health. Add imoen. Add resistance. Slot mutagen. Increase healthis recovery. There are ways around your issue. If you can't fight without having a shield up 24/7 than your just not that good.
Sadly i can do just that on a magica nightblade ranged build. Now with the added benefit of having a shield against everything.
The problem with sorc is they lack a reliable way to refill their HP bar when they have casted a ward after loosing HP (they need atleast 1 gcd more than any other class).
Having to fight without a shield up as a magblade or magplar is something entirely different than doing that on a magica sorc (i would know bc i play all of those in pvp). If you´re unable to understand why you´re lacking the basis to discuss the topic. If you do understand why you´re ignoring that knowledge deliberatly to do something that mentioning is against the forum tos.
Stop trying to insult me with lame l2p comments.
Your refusal to go outside of the class for heals is a l2p issue. Why do all classes have to have a variant of the same thing? Other classes go outside of class for a shield if they want. So why can't a sorc go outside of class for a heal?
Read again what i wrote. Try to understand why those words you typed don´t make sense. Afterwards write again.
I´m not even going to start about the other giant leaking whole concerning logic in that comment of yours. Yes l2p comments are pathetic in that regard and imo an deliberate attempt at violating the forum tos.
You seem to be missing my point. Rather than shield attack and get health back like some other classes can do more reliably than others, you got hot, than shield, atacking. My point is try a new approach to how you fight. Refusal to adapt to completely viable alternative that is on par in its own way with other classes approaches, is in fact not a fame issue but a l2p issue. There is no deliberate attempt to violate the tos. It is an attempt to get you to awknoledge other viable approaches that are available. Cookie cutter builds exist because people think there is only one way to fight. That is a horrible approach.0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »[ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Found the build with no reg.
Seriously i´m gonna check back when you´ve actually played solo/smallscale with 6s shields and realized that you´re unable to finish off people without exposing yourself.
Pretty sure that's the point. Now you need to decide between offense or defense at crucial moments. So sorry you can't go full offensive while being full defensive at the same time. People run around in light armor right now without shields to finish people off with. We go in and sacrifice defense for 9ffesnsive capabilities. Stop acting like Sorcs are some weak pathetic bunch that drops in a second from the wind blowing without shields up. Every mag user that is not a sorc does that every fight. Add more health. Add imoen. Add resistance. Slot mutagen. Increase healthis recovery. There are ways around your issue. If you can't fight without having a shield up 24/7 than your just not that good.
Sadly i can do just that on a magica nightblade ranged build. Now with the added benefit of having a shield against everything.
The problem with sorc is they lack a reliable way to refill their HP bar when they have casted a ward after loosing HP (they need atleast 1 gcd more than any other class).
Having to fight without a shield up as a magblade or magplar is something entirely different than doing that on a magica sorc (i would know bc i play all of those in pvp). If you´re unable to understand why you´re lacking the basis to discuss the topic. If you do understand why you´re ignoring that knowledge deliberatly to do something that mentioning is against the forum tos.
Stop trying to insult me with lame l2p comments.
Your refusal to go outside of the class for heals is a l2p issue. Why do all classes have to have a variant of the same thing? Other classes go outside of class for a shield if they want. So why can't a sorc go outside of class for a heal?
Just because other classes don't have to give up a lot of damage to slot a shield, while sorcs lose out on damage etc that other classes don't need to sacrifice. Not to mention the bugs with actually switching bars.
What damage would a sorcs be giving up. Sorcs is about timed burst damage from curse, frag, dawnbreaker, details etc. Therefore, sorcs don't lose really much if any in terms of dps because of how the Blass is bu8lt. Other classes require more constant pressure with intermittent bursts of damage.
Funny thing is dawnbreaker just got changed to physical dmg aswell as detonation crippled against single opponents (not that i think it´s a bad thing - i hated that playstyle and did not play that way myself) - however it´s funny you state sorc being about timed burst when exactly that playstyle got hit even harder than sorc in general as two of it´s main abilities got flat out nerfed to the ground.
That I can agree with. Although I personally belive smiting is still viable. You can still hit a hard bust with it at a low cost. It will still be viable. That aside, I think the issue lies in the burst capabilities of a sorc. That is an aspect that needs to be addressed. I do not think the issue is with the shield changes 9r the lack of an spammable dps or heals. If the sorc burst is tweaked, than everything else falls 8nto place much easier.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »[ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Found the build with no reg.
Seriously i´m gonna check back when you´ve actually played solo/smallscale with 6s shields and realized that you´re unable to finish off people without exposing yourself.
Pretty sure that's the point. Now you need to decide between offense or defense at crucial moments. So sorry you can't go full offensive while being full defensive at the same time. People run around in light armor right now without shields to finish people off with. We go in and sacrifice defense for 9ffesnsive capabilities. Stop acting like Sorcs are some weak pathetic bunch that drops in a second from the wind blowing without shields up. Every mag user that is not a sorc does that every fight. Add more health. Add imoen. Add resistance. Slot mutagen. Increase healthis recovery. There are ways around your issue. If you can't fight without having a shield up 24/7 than your just not that good.
Sadly i can do just that on a magica nightblade ranged build. Now with the added benefit of having a shield against everything.
The problem with sorc is they lack a reliable way to refill their HP bar when they have casted a ward after loosing HP (they need atleast 1 gcd more than any other class).
Having to fight without a shield up as a magblade or magplar is something entirely different than doing that on a magica sorc (i would know bc i play all of those in pvp). If you´re unable to understand why you´re lacking the basis to discuss the topic. If you do understand why you´re ignoring that knowledge deliberatly to do something that mentioning is against the forum tos.
Stop trying to insult me with lame l2p comments.
Your refusal to go outside of the class for heals is a l2p issue. Why do all classes have to have a variant of the same thing? Other classes go outside of class for a shield if they want. So why can't a sorc go outside of class for a heal?
Read again what i wrote. Try to understand why those words you typed don´t make sense. Afterwards write again.
I´m not even going to start about the other giant leaking whole concerning logic in that comment of yours. Yes l2p comments are pathetic in that regard and imo an deliberate attempt at violating the forum tos.
You seem to be missing my point. Rather than shield attack and get health back like some other classes can do more reliably than others, you got hot, than shield, atacking. My point is try a new approach to how you fight. Refusal to adapt to completely viable alternative that is on par in its own way with other classes approaches, is in fact not a fame issue but a l2p issue. There is no deliberate attempt to violate the tos. It is an attempt to get you to awknoledge other viable approaches that are available. Cookie cutter builds exist because people think there is only one way to fight. That is a horrible approach.
The problem is my setup currently looks exactly the way you´re suggesting me to change it to. Which is why i´m stating your argument does not make sense.
I know because i actually play that way already.
I do understand the point you´re trying to make all while mentioning l2p in every comment (though it´s rather l2 theorycraft). It´s just that your directioning all your well meant advice at someone using only one shield, rapid reg, degeneration, surge (even though the heal is pathetic), defensive rune on a relatively high HP setup (with not all CP in bastion but rather critreduce and dmg reduction).Edited by Derra on 29 April 2016 19:57<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »[ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Found the build with no reg.
Seriously i´m gonna check back when you´ve actually played solo/smallscale with 6s shields and realized that you´re unable to finish off people without exposing yourself.
Pretty sure that's the point. Now you need to decide between offense or defense at crucial moments. So sorry you can't go full offensive while being full defensive at the same time. People run around in light armor right now without shields to finish people off with. We go in and sacrifice defense for 9ffesnsive capabilities. Stop acting like Sorcs are some weak pathetic bunch that drops in a second from the wind blowing without shields up. Every mag user that is not a sorc does that every fight. Add more health. Add imoen. Add resistance. Slot mutagen. Increase healthis recovery. There are ways around your issue. If you can't fight without having a shield up 24/7 than your just not that good.
Sadly i can do just that on a magica nightblade ranged build. Now with the added benefit of having a shield against everything.
The problem with sorc is they lack a reliable way to refill their HP bar when they have casted a ward after loosing HP (they need atleast 1 gcd more than any other class).
Having to fight without a shield up as a magblade or magplar is something entirely different than doing that on a magica sorc (i would know bc i play all of those in pvp). If you´re unable to understand why you´re lacking the basis to discuss the topic. If you do understand why you´re ignoring that knowledge deliberatly to do something that mentioning is against the forum tos.
Stop trying to insult me with lame l2p comments.
Your refusal to go outside of the class for heals is a l2p issue. Why do all classes have to have a variant of the same thing? Other classes go outside of class for a shield if they want. So why can't a sorc go outside of class for a heal?
Read again what i wrote. Try to understand why those words you typed don´t make sense. Afterwards write again.
I´m not even going to start about the other giant leaking whole concerning logic in that comment of yours. Yes l2p comments are pathetic in that regard and imo an deliberate attempt at violating the forum tos.
You seem to be missing my point. Rather than shield attack and get health back like some other classes can do more reliably than others, you got hot, than shield, atacking. My point is try a new approach to how you fight. Refusal to adapt to completely viable alternative that is on par in its own way with other classes approaches, is in fact not a fame issue but a l2p issue. There is no deliberate attempt to violate the tos. It is an attempt to get you to awknoledge other viable approaches that are available. Cookie cutter builds exist because people think there is only one way to fight. That is a horrible approach.
The problem is my setup currently looks exactly the way you´re suggesting me to change it to. Which is why i´m stating your argument does not make sense.
I know because i actually play that way already.
Ticks from regen and quick siphon tick the same as a Nb swallow soul. The benefit a Nb gets from shielding and swallow is the same as a sorc with one of the two and sheilds0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Found the build with no reg.
Seriously i´m gonna check back when you´ve actually played solo/smallscale with 6s shields and realized that you´re unable to finish off people without exposing yourself.
2100 regen, try again
Maybe you´ve found s.th. i havent or have access to sets i don´t have.
Only thing i can access that would put me in those regions statwise is a TBS setup which isn´t too tempting as it would mean giving up incredibly useful set bonuses or impen - and still having fairly low spelldmg if it´s a staffbuild.
The spelldamage is relatively mediocre, buffs to just about 3000. But it has good penetration. I can throw on the dual swords and get back to 3400 if I want to, but ive found that limits ultimate gen at range so I stopped.
Still frags people for over 10k on a proc, so does enough damage for what its made for. Its not meant to be a pure damage spec, I tend to lead groups with it, it needs to be tough and hard to bring down. Tradeoff, and it happens to make 1v1 hilarious because even against the likes of Xev who can hit really really hard against most, it results in a stalemate.
You can count me out. As i have simply no idea how to get to 30k hp 18k stam 39k magica with 3000 spelldmg and 2100 magreg on a staffbuild, except if this is with potion buff and continuous attack.
Only selfbuffed without potion *shrug*.
Im also breton and youre high elf which seems weird to me, you should be able to hit those values easier than I do. An altmer should push 2300 or so regen on the same build.
Honestly i have no idea. I can´t dream of reaching those stats selfbuffed only.
I could go test though if you run 2p willp 2p endu 2p mag 5p kags as i should have all that in bank.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »[ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Found the build with no reg.
Seriously i´m gonna check back when you´ve actually played solo/smallscale with 6s shields and realized that you´re unable to finish off people without exposing yourself.
Pretty sure that's the point. Now you need to decide between offense or defense at crucial moments. So sorry you can't go full offensive while being full defensive at the same time. People run around in light armor right now without shields to finish people off with. We go in and sacrifice defense for 9ffesnsive capabilities. Stop acting like Sorcs are some weak pathetic bunch that drops in a second from the wind blowing without shields up. Every mag user that is not a sorc does that every fight. Add more health. Add imoen. Add resistance. Slot mutagen. Increase healthis recovery. There are ways around your issue. If you can't fight without having a shield up 24/7 than your just not that good.
Sadly i can do just that on a magica nightblade ranged build. Now with the added benefit of having a shield against everything.
The problem with sorc is they lack a reliable way to refill their HP bar when they have casted a ward after loosing HP (they need atleast 1 gcd more than any other class).
Having to fight without a shield up as a magblade or magplar is something entirely different than doing that on a magica sorc (i would know bc i play all of those in pvp). If you´re unable to understand why you´re lacking the basis to discuss the topic. If you do understand why you´re ignoring that knowledge deliberatly to do something that mentioning is against the forum tos.
Stop trying to insult me with lame l2p comments.
Your refusal to go outside of the class for heals is a l2p issue. Why do all classes have to have a variant of the same thing? Other classes go outside of class for a shield if they want. So why can't a sorc go outside of class for a heal?
Read again what i wrote. Try to understand why those words you typed don´t make sense. Afterwards write again.
I´m not even going to start about the other giant leaking whole concerning logic in that comment of yours. Yes l2p comments are pathetic in that regard and imo an deliberate attempt at violating the forum tos.
You seem to be missing my point. Rather than shield attack and get health back like some other classes can do more reliably than others, you got hot, than shield, atacking. My point is try a new approach to how you fight. Refusal to adapt to completely viable alternative that is on par in its own way with other classes approaches, is in fact not a fame issue but a l2p issue. There is no deliberate attempt to violate the tos. It is an attempt to get you to awknoledge other viable approaches that are available. Cookie cutter builds exist because people think there is only one way to fight. That is a horrible approach.
The problem is my setup currently looks exactly the way you´re suggesting me to change it to. Which is why i´m stating your argument does not make sense.
I know because i actually play that way already.
Ticks from regen and quick siphon tick the same as a Nb swallow soul. The benefit a Nb gets from shielding and swallow is the same as a sorc with one of the two and sheilds
No. If health damage is done you either need health regen or a heal to make back what was lost. A shield delays health damage, and if a sorc and nb both took health damage the nb would be the one getting out of the bad position faster with a heal. The sorc would need to keep spamming shields until their regen could get them back up if we are only taking both using 2 skills. Unless of course people now love sorcs spamming shields. Who knew?0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »[ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Found the build with no reg.
Seriously i´m gonna check back when you´ve actually played solo/smallscale with 6s shields and realized that you´re unable to finish off people without exposing yourself.
Pretty sure that's the point. Now you need to decide between offense or defense at crucial moments. So sorry you can't go full offensive while being full defensive at the same time. People run around in light armor right now without shields to finish people off with. We go in and sacrifice defense for 9ffesnsive capabilities. Stop acting like Sorcs are some weak pathetic bunch that drops in a second from the wind blowing without shields up. Every mag user that is not a sorc does that every fight. Add more health. Add imoen. Add resistance. Slot mutagen. Increase healthis recovery. There are ways around your issue. If you can't fight without having a shield up 24/7 than your just not that good.
Sadly i can do just that on a magica nightblade ranged build. Now with the added benefit of having a shield against everything.
The problem with sorc is they lack a reliable way to refill their HP bar when they have casted a ward after loosing HP (they need atleast 1 gcd more than any other class).
Having to fight without a shield up as a magblade or magplar is something entirely different than doing that on a magica sorc (i would know bc i play all of those in pvp). If you´re unable to understand why you´re lacking the basis to discuss the topic. If you do understand why you´re ignoring that knowledge deliberatly to do something that mentioning is against the forum tos.
Stop trying to insult me with lame l2p comments.
Your refusal to go outside of the class for heals is a l2p issue. Why do all classes have to have a variant of the same thing? Other classes go outside of class for a shield if they want. So why can't a sorc go outside of class for a heal?
Read again what i wrote. Try to understand why those words you typed don´t make sense. Afterwards write again.
I´m not even going to start about the other giant leaking whole concerning logic in that comment of yours. Yes l2p comments are pathetic in that regard and imo an deliberate attempt at violating the forum tos.
You seem to be missing my point. Rather than shield attack and get health back like some other classes can do more reliably than others, you got hot, than shield, atacking. My point is try a new approach to how you fight. Refusal to adapt to completely viable alternative that is on par in its own way with other classes approaches, is in fact not a fame issue but a l2p issue. There is no deliberate attempt to violate the tos. It is an attempt to get you to awknoledge other viable approaches that are available. Cookie cutter builds exist because people think there is only one way to fight. That is a horrible approach.
The problem is my setup currently looks exactly the way you´re suggesting me to change it to. Which is why i´m stating your argument does not make sense.
I know because i actually play that way already.
Ticks from regen and quick siphon tick the same as a Nb swallow soul. The benefit a Nb gets from shielding and swallow is the same as a sorc with one of the two and sheilds
No. If health damage is done you either need health regen or a heal to make back what was lost. A shield delays health damage, and if a sorc and nb both took health damage the nb would be the one getting out of the bad position faster with a heal. The sorc would need to keep spamming shields until their regen could get them back up if we are only taking both using 2 skills. Unless of course people now love sorcs spamming shields. Who knew?
Let me clarify. Rapid regen. A sorc using rapid regen or quick siphon.with a shield will heal up roughly has fast as a Nb with a shield and swallow soul since the need to Nb strife.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »[ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Found the build with no reg.
Seriously i´m gonna check back when you´ve actually played solo/smallscale with 6s shields and realized that you´re unable to finish off people without exposing yourself.
Pretty sure that's the point. Now you need to decide between offense or defense at crucial moments. So sorry you can't go full offensive while being full defensive at the same time. People run around in light armor right now without shields to finish people off with. We go in and sacrifice defense for 9ffesnsive capabilities. Stop acting like Sorcs are some weak pathetic bunch that drops in a second from the wind blowing without shields up. Every mag user that is not a sorc does that every fight. Add more health. Add imoen. Add resistance. Slot mutagen. Increase healthis recovery. There are ways around your issue. If you can't fight without having a shield up 24/7 than your just not that good.
Sadly i can do just that on a magica nightblade ranged build. Now with the added benefit of having a shield against everything.
The problem with sorc is they lack a reliable way to refill their HP bar when they have casted a ward after loosing HP (they need atleast 1 gcd more than any other class).
Having to fight without a shield up as a magblade or magplar is something entirely different than doing that on a magica sorc (i would know bc i play all of those in pvp). If you´re unable to understand why you´re lacking the basis to discuss the topic. If you do understand why you´re ignoring that knowledge deliberatly to do something that mentioning is against the forum tos.
Stop trying to insult me with lame l2p comments.
Your refusal to go outside of the class for heals is a l2p issue. Why do all classes have to have a variant of the same thing? Other classes go outside of class for a shield if they want. So why can't a sorc go outside of class for a heal?
Read again what i wrote. Try to understand why those words you typed don´t make sense. Afterwards write again.
I´m not even going to start about the other giant leaking whole concerning logic in that comment of yours. Yes l2p comments are pathetic in that regard and imo an deliberate attempt at violating the forum tos.
You seem to be missing my point. Rather than shield attack and get health back like some other classes can do more reliably than others, you got hot, than shield, atacking. My point is try a new approach to how you fight. Refusal to adapt to completely viable alternative that is on par in its own way with other classes approaches, is in fact not a fame issue but a l2p issue. There is no deliberate attempt to violate the tos. It is an attempt to get you to awknoledge other viable approaches that are available. Cookie cutter builds exist because people think there is only one way to fight. That is a horrible approach.
The problem is my setup currently looks exactly the way you´re suggesting me to change it to. Which is why i´m stating your argument does not make sense.
I know because i actually play that way already.
Ticks from regen and quick siphon tick the same as a Nb swallow soul. The benefit a Nb gets from shielding and swallow is the same as a sorc with one of the two and sheilds
No it´s not. Which is why your argument is wrong. As i´ve said i play both classes. You can´t just say casting 4 spells for the same outcome where the other class uses two is the same (swallow soul noncrit if not blocked ticks for double the amount of my sorcs rapid reg - meaning heals are incoming at the same frequency if spammed)
Oversimplified to get the same healing both classes cast:
Shield, rapid reg, siphon, 1st dmg spell <== for sorc
Shield, swallow, swallow, swallow <== for NB
NB has done atleast double the amount of dmg the sorc has in that timeframe (and only if the first cast is a procced frag as everything else is way lower dmg).
Edit: Ofc it´s currently a little different as the shield lasts longer which gives the sorc a lot of breathing room - maybe too much. But 6s will be too little. I don´t want 20s shields back (atleast not for pvp for arena i want them). But maybe 8s on hardened.
No arguing for keeping status quo of live. I´ve been in favor of removing shieldstacking since 1.6. It´s just ZOS approach of a topic always feels out of touch with the actual game.Edited by Derra on 29 April 2016 20:23<Noricum>
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CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »[ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Found the build with no reg.
Seriously i´m gonna check back when you´ve actually played solo/smallscale with 6s shields and realized that you´re unable to finish off people without exposing yourself.
Pretty sure that's the point. Now you need to decide between offense or defense at crucial moments. So sorry you can't go full offensive while being full defensive at the same time. People run around in light armor right now without shields to finish people off with. We go in and sacrifice defense for 9ffesnsive capabilities. Stop acting like Sorcs are some weak pathetic bunch that drops in a second from the wind blowing without shields up. Every mag user that is not a sorc does that every fight. Add more health. Add imoen. Add resistance. Slot mutagen. Increase healthis recovery. There are ways around your issue. If you can't fight without having a shield up 24/7 than your just not that good.
Sadly i can do just that on a magica nightblade ranged build. Now with the added benefit of having a shield against everything.
The problem with sorc is they lack a reliable way to refill their HP bar when they have casted a ward after loosing HP (they need atleast 1 gcd more than any other class).
Having to fight without a shield up as a magblade or magplar is something entirely different than doing that on a magica sorc (i would know bc i play all of those in pvp). If you´re unable to understand why you´re lacking the basis to discuss the topic. If you do understand why you´re ignoring that knowledge deliberatly to do something that mentioning is against the forum tos.
Stop trying to insult me with lame l2p comments.
Your refusal to go outside of the class for heals is a l2p issue. Why do all classes have to have a variant of the same thing? Other classes go outside of class for a shield if they want. So why can't a sorc go outside of class for a heal?
Read again what i wrote. Try to understand why those words you typed don´t make sense. Afterwards write again.
I´m not even going to start about the other giant leaking whole concerning logic in that comment of yours. Yes l2p comments are pathetic in that regard and imo an deliberate attempt at violating the forum tos.
You seem to be missing my point. Rather than shield attack and get health back like some other classes can do more reliably than others, you got hot, than shield, atacking. My point is try a new approach to how you fight. Refusal to adapt to completely viable alternative that is on par in its own way with other classes approaches, is in fact not a fame issue but a l2p issue. There is no deliberate attempt to violate the tos. It is an attempt to get you to awknoledge other viable approaches that are available. Cookie cutter builds exist because people think there is only one way to fight. That is a horrible approach.
The problem is my setup currently looks exactly the way you´re suggesting me to change it to. Which is why i´m stating your argument does not make sense.
I know because i actually play that way already.
Ticks from regen and quick siphon tick the same as a Nb swallow soul. The benefit a Nb gets from shielding and swallow is the same as a sorc with one of the two and sheilds
No. If health damage is done you either need health regen or a heal to make back what was lost. A shield delays health damage, and if a sorc and nb both took health damage the nb would be the one getting out of the bad position faster with a heal. The sorc would need to keep spamming shields until their regen could get them back up if we are only taking both using 2 skills. Unless of course people now love sorcs spamming shields. Who knew?
Let me clarify. Rapid regen. A sorc using rapid regen or quick siphon.with a shield will heal up roughly has fast as a Nb with a shield and swallow soul since the need to Nb strife.
And nightblades have a choice. They can do different things. How fun is it to have to do something because the alternatives that come from your class choice fail?0 -
Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.
i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction
That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.
@ZOS_GinaBruno The issue here isn't the duration, infact this duration puts even more pressure on Sorcerers to keep their shields up to prevent being one shotted.
It's that they completely negate crit, if you made the critable this would allow other classes to fight at full power without feeling like they just got gimped by a person with a bubble.
The fact that you are also giving shields to all classes clearly points to your team stubbornly refusing to acknowledge this big problem being solved with a tiny fix. Infact a lot of issues for people with shields would be solved by making them crittable.
Or...
Git some health. Git some inpen. Git some healing. Git some stamina...
In other words, paradigm shift from the ridiculous sorc cheese min/max FOTM template and realize that the game has other stats in addition to the size of the magicka pool.
30k health 18k stam 39k magicka Lyzara has become the new meta. Always ahead of the curve. That health is also the reason why when all other sorcs cried about shieldbreaker, i said wtf? I dont even use harness, it gets even sillier from there. So many bad bad bad sorcs out there that slapped together max magicka, max shields, yolo.
It amuses me. Fundamental building and not pulling cookie cutter off a website or video makes for stronger characters. Theres a reason why theorycrafters tend to be the best players, we actually understand mechanics and arent just button mashing with an i-win setup someone else created
PROTIP - If youre seriously running a 45k+ magicka and sub 12k stam/20k health build in cyrodiil, i consider you completely stupid, no matter the class. Literally asking for it.
but I digress, im gonna giggle all day when this hits live, as all the fotm 1.6 sorcs finally disappear back into oblivion. I shall remain behind as will my OG brethren.
Care to post a quick link to your build or a description? I only managed about 10K Stam and 23K health with 38K Magicka. I'm curious how you did this, and how the spell damage looks.
Use legendary tri-stat glyphs on head/chest/legs (and other pieces if you're rich) plus purple v15 tri-stat buff food.
Divide the resto of your attribute points/glyphs between health and magicka.
Wear 5/1/1 to get the full 6% tri-stat bonus from the Undaunted Mettle passive.
On my Bosmer magicka NB I have 38k max magicka, 25k health and 16k stamina.
This is with full impen and 5pc VD so my spell dmg is only 3.1k and I have like 2k magicka regen.PC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
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