mutharex wrote: »

aleister wrote: »

ian.freybourgerb16_ESO wrote: »

Please no, I don't want to see another SWG CU/NGE

No one wants it, but I think ZOS put themselves in a position where it is going to be necessary. I see a lot of parallels between ESO and SWG. They both were prematurely released in an unfinished state with serious combat & character balance design flaws and a major lack of content. This game needs an intervention.

ROFL

Oh, you serious?? Sorry!

Yep. Same drama too. Half the players saying "this game is really broken" with the other half screaming "no, it's perfect. don't change a thing!".

The whole 50% of the population thinks (insert thought here) doesn't actually hold any water. Simple reason is the vast majority of the player base does not even come to the forums. Look at some of the most viewed posts, 23,000 views!! Probably not even 2% of the player base
I look at my own little guild. 17 active, dedicated players, been playing MMOs for years and yet I am the only one who reads the forums.
I know us forum warriors like to pretend that we represent all players and all thoughts, but reality is we don't. Player retention over time of all those players that never come to the forums will tell the tale (also why I think it is a serious business mistake to not have an exit poll when players quit)

Too little too late for ESO. Many of us that are on the fence already will get that MMO fix elsewhere, I hear that Wildstar comes out Saturday.

Good Luck to the ESO community.

aleister wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

aleister wrote: »

ian.freybourgerb16_ESO wrote: »

Please no, I don't want to see another SWG CU/NGE

No one wants it, but I think ZOS put themselves in a position where it is going to be necessary. I see a lot of parallels between ESO and SWG. They both were prematurely released in an unfinished state with serious combat & character balance design flaws and a major lack of content. This game needs an intervention.

ROFL

Oh, you serious?? Sorry!

Yep. Same drama too. Half the players saying "this game is really broken" with the other half screaming "no, it's perfect. don't change a thing!".

@aleister I don't think that's entirely true, many players who don't want a complete rebuild of the game (like myself) will agree some aspects are in need of work and maybe a rebuild of those feature alone.
However for many of us the game plays well and we're enjoying it, the illusion you can just take an MMO down and re-release it in six to twelve months with no issues is simply that, an illusion.
No matter what ZOS do to the game they're not going to appease every single player, there will be players who just don't like the core fundamental design choices of the game, and those players need to just realise the game isn't for them. I don't play some MMO's because I don't enjoy them, I don't play many FPS games because I don't enjoy FPS games, I don't head to the Battlefield forums and tell them to remake the game more like an RTS because it's what I feel I want from it.

If you have issues with the games features and mechanics make a thread about that one feature, why you feel it's not working and wont work in the long run of the game then outline some ideas on how you would have it changed, however try to imagine changes within the concepts of the games design.

A great example is everyone screaming "Guild stores failed and we need an AH". I will agree Guild Stores right now need A LOT of work but scrapping the idea entirely and going with the normal approach doesn't mean it will be the best thing for the game or the players. There is a lot of potential for the Guild Stores if other systems are added to support them, like ways players can rent/buy shops and stands where their wares can be purchased, many smaller public auction houses rather than one central location, this creates competition between trade/crafting guilds and doesn't involve a complete rewrite of the entire feature.

TL - DR (cause my posts are way too long):

Coming from the perspective of someone who has cancelled their subscription (but would easily come back if they made some sweeping changes), I feel that a complete remake is NOT needed. they do not need to completely re-do the game. They DO need to make some sweeping changes, but its not necessary to redo.

Now....in relation to the topic of forums and what the represent compared to the playerbase:

Most forums represent a small portion of the population, this is true. but most people that are serious about their company surviving also know a few other things about this:

1) On average, for every one person that is frustrated or discontent, there are 5-10 others who are as well, and don't voice it.

2) Internal numbers (a.k.a sales) are just as important as customer feedback. if all your customers are saying your product is great...but your sales are falling like rocks, something is wrong.

So most Companies pay attention to far more then just complaints on a forum. It's usually the PLAYERS that for some odd reason think that the forums are the only place companies listen to. trust me, any company worth it's salt pays attention to a variety of factors, customer feedback being an important one, but not necessarily the ONLY one.

I often find that the companies in danger are those that don't provide themselves with as many opportunities as possible to gather as much info as possible. an example of that here would be no feedback form when you cancel your sub. though the forums are not the best place to get a "feel" for the customer base...when someone decides your product is not worth buying, it's REALLY good to know why.

And forums can give ideas about "trends". you compare the thread trends in the forum with bug reports, other sources of customer feedback, and take all that data, crunch it, and throw it on the VP's table.

EDIT: man, totally forgot to address the OP's question.

Coming from the perspective of someone who has cancelled their subscription (but would easily come back if they made some sweeping changes), I feel that it is NOT needed. they do not need to completely re-do the game. They DO need to make some sweeping changes, but its not necessary to redo. I feel that they could:

Reduce the overall difficulty of VR levels. I think that the switch from levels (1-50) to VR levels is a bit odd, and throws off the continuity of the game, but it's not a game breaker. but they really do need to adjust the VR levels so it's not such a paradoxical shift to go from lvl 50 areas to VR1 areas. They COULD switch them over to simple levels (61-72 in the current environment) to make it feel more congruent, but it's not necessary.

second most critical part of this is, give or provide alternate leveling paths. PvP is already included (though they need to revamp their "scaling" with the player characters...the introduction of vr5 difficulty in mobs has made soloing with any charectars lower then vr1 virtually impossible). but they need more alternatives then "just" the VR grind.

On the flip side, there was also no options for those who didn't WANT to level as fast. no way of turning off your experience if you were having a blast doing PvP, exporting, and running 10 group instances a day. you out leveled your area, and had no way of stopping it.

So..we need more paths. But what is there as a design concept is good. There are people that want to be able to experience all the content, and not level up alts. This is a first for an MMO to provide people with that opportunity. but forcing players to do it is a recipe for self-destruction.

Third most important part of this (it ties in with the second point) is simple. People do need and WANT challenges, but they should be forced into them. there should be varying levels of difficulty during the ENTIRE LEVELING CURVE, but they should be voluntary, and not tied in with the general game progression. instead, they should provide varying levels of reward. the more difficult, the better of a reward.

EXAMPLE:
Player A just wants to enjoy the storyline. he finishes 1-50, gets promoted to veteran status, and starts the journey from Vr1 to VR10. every VR level nets him a skill reward bonus, stat improvements, and increases on the overcharge thresholds on his character, in addition to the bonuses from the areas and from the veteran global quests. This difficulty should be progressive, but staged in minor increments. much like levels 1-50 were. VR1 is SLIGHTLY more difficult then 50 zones. VR2 slightly more then VR1, etc. This forms the "framework" for what comes next.

Player B wants more of a challenge, but something along his preference of playstyle. along the way he is presented with "challenge zones" that offer daily quests that propose a challenge. Whether it be surviving hordes of mobs, or being able to sneak past guards in a fort to get a special charm from the lord or lady of that keep, or crafting a special item (hint hint...crafters like challenges as well)...whatever it is, make it difficult, but doable for the large part of the playerbase if they are careful about their builds and setup.

Player C wants the ultimate challenge. He gets the new "tiered" public dungeons. they are staged so that each tier gets increasingly difficult. tier one could be soloable if your careful. tier 2 is hard for the solo player...you have to go with known builds that are designed to survive this level of play. Tier 3 simply needs a group...period. whether you just run in with 4 other players, or form your own group doesn't matter. you run in solo in that tier, you die.

Sorry it's so long winded, but you get the point. There are many things they can do to take the game AS IS, and improve on what's there and make it a game that will survive, and thrive. and there are many things they can do along the way like the examples above that will turn it into a game that everyone can enjoy, not just the select few.

Yes I do , I want a total revamp of everything .

No, they just need to fix the bugs and keep the content coming.

brisingr90 wrote: »

Should ESO get a total redesign just like the old FF XIV?

DEFINITELY.

But first they need to hire people that know what they are doing. And people that are willing to design the game around what the MMORPG community wants.

Right now this game looks like it was designed for the manager's daughter, by the manager's daughter.

Hope she's having fun.

Cogo wrote: »

Sigh. In a month or two, players who where expecting another WoW game or even skyrim online are gone, ESO will not just be a bigger game, but with a even better contect, as read from their top managers on the road ahead.

Funny that most people on these forums claims ESO is failed or whatever.

Go into any zone in the game and ask the same question, and the answer you get from a multiple players are they the love the game.

How do I know this? I ended up in one of the newbie zones today, to help a friend and it was jammed packed! Oki, maybe by alts, but the discussions that went through zone chat was of that of a new player. "Can I buy a horse? For example, which is a perfectly valid question if you are a new player.

I asked the question there and it wasnt just 1 person who responded.....the whole damn zone did!

So, I headed back to eastmarch where I currently are exploring and asked the same thing. I got answers like "what a stupid question...did you totaly miss how good the game is working"

Not that I didnt agree, its just interesting that it is the complete opposite to most opinions here.

I'm not suprised that you got that reaction. What I would love to see though, is you taking account of all of their names, get a decent' amount of responses, and come back later on when they've gotten past the 1-50 stage and see how many say the same thing.

I though this game was the greatest thing since sliced bread in the first 50 levels of the game. There were many things I didn't like about the design, but overall I was still willing to continue on and put my money in and play.

2 things drastically changed my mind. Vr content, and the first patch. I was one of the solid defenders of the game until i hit 50. Then i wasn't sure if i really wanted to continue, but I plodded along. then the patch came, and outside of the bugs, the new content didn't give me a picture I was happy with. It's usually at that point that all the other little things you didn't like about the game design come crashing as well. it becomes "an in addition to all this stuff i was putting up with, now this..."

And besides...not to dissuade you from your "in game poll", but if players didn't like the game, why would they still be playing? thats like walking into the BMW car club of america and asking the question, "how many people here like BMW's?" I doubt that you would get a single person that WOULDN'T raise there hands (unless they're the spouses of the aficionados and they're putting up with it for their significant other )

you'd be just as effective emailing all the people who cancelled their subs and asking them, "do you like the game?". You'd probably get just as an enthusiastic response from them...but in the opposite direction.

And you don't take into account the many people that loved the game in many ways, but their sheer frustration with the glitches, the stark polarity between the 1-50 game vs the VR game, the intense class imbalance...I could go on, but the point is many people loved many aspects of the game, but there was simply too much imbalance and poor design for them to want to continue paying their hard earned money into it.

And you cheapening their experience by calling them whiners or wow-philes doesn't improve the situation. it's Zenimax that suffers When they leave, not you.

Edit: I retract the above statement with an apology. You actually didn't accuse anyone of being wow-philes or whiners.

You did make light of their reasons for quitting though, and used a biased example that doesn't really prove your point. so the points i made about that still stand. sorry for the incorrect accusation though. were all here to just enjoy a game.

brisingr90 wrote: »

I just wondering, since more than 50% people doesn't like the way ESO now, and many people have quit the game... Should ESO get a total redesign just like the old FF XIV?

What do you think if ZOS decide that ESO will get a total redesign? do you agree or not?

1 problem is FFXIV was still rubbish after the overhaul, input lag was there, clunky interface and basically a grind fest. Not sure where you are going with this tbh.
TESO is good but just has some balance issue's which will be adjusted through the entire life of the game. These forums are identical to WOW, DDO ect... when ever they make class changes. people moan because most people hate change and cannot handle having to change there play style.

By the way I play a DK tank and agree with most of the nerfs and changes that have been done to my class. Destro/Resto was op though i never used it myself. I would say inhale has been hammered a bit too much to be fair.

You people can keep arguing, but the truth is this game does need an overhaul. The developers realize this and pushed back the release date on consoles.

You can not deny the lack of implementation on several aspects of this game.

Say what you will about World of Warcraft, Rift, Everquest, Everquest 2 etc. Truth of the matter is these games work, and they have continues to withstand the test of time. Every once in awhile a new game reveals itself trying to do something different and the game fails miserably, ESO is an example of this.

Why is this game slowly losing?

1. The naming system, not only do you give hackers half of your account info, but you eliminate the ability to get away from friends.
2. The search functions of the guild store, seriously who wants to go through pages and pages to find one item they want.
3. Class balances
4. Replay value, who wants to level up 4 toons to vr12 ( atm )
5. Dungeons, loot in some is poorly generated, or even broken. Set bonuses do not stack, or work. Some encounters don't work. Sewers questline is still broken.
6. Inability to fix bugs while also providing constant updates to the game.
7. Zenimax is obviously oblivious to how an mmo should work. I would fire them and hire another company to handle my game.
8. Inability to group with friends or guildies, which means I can't help them.
9. The expenses of everything in the game. Mainly respecing. The game should say play the way you want as long as you have 30k gold to spend. It is also stupid that it hurts you for exploring ( getting more skill points )
10. No marking targets.
11. No ready check
12. No dying system.
13. No jewelry crafts
14. Bots
15. Provisioning mats not dropping to zone level but rather player lvl.


All in all I would say this is one of the most halfassed mmos I have ever played.

They have a lot of great ideas but every single idea seems to fall short when actually implemented.

If I had to guess, they gave Zenimax a deadline. Zenimax was only able to meet that deadline by doing everything halfass and hoping for the best. This game is pretty turd. But one you get past the polish of the turd you flush it like all other turds.

What sad is how bad zenimax is making the elder scrolls look. If they don't turn this around, they couldn't pay me to play another elder scrolls game, single player or mmo.