hoangdz wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

CannedChicken wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

CannedChicken wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

CannedChicken wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

CannedChicken wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Ah yes, nerf one of the most iconic, class-defining, and fun-to-use skills in the game because it has the potential to be used by ball groups to kill groups of pugs. What a great idea.

On a serious note, I think you're looking at this the wrong way. No ball group is just going to streak into a randomly spread group of players before dumping their ultimates. The group will be too scattered for that to be effective. However, they might get pulled together by something like Rush of Agony or DC (which should never have been introduced into the game in the first place) and then stunned(ROA to be clear). At that point, it doesn't really matter whether the follow-up stun is Streak, Fear, Turn Evil, or the Warden charm.

Furthermore, the main issue with ball groups isn't really their kill potential. It's how incredibly tanky they are, with 45k+ health and who knows how many thousands worth of shields on top of that.

Personally, I'd address COE on Sorc long before I'd even consider touching Streak. Let Streak remain a strong and fun skill to use.

Lastly, I know a lot of Sorc haters don't want to hear this, but unironically, there is some skill involved in using Streak properly. A lot of Sorcs probably can't accurately judge the distance they need to travel to get the most out of it.

The framing around Streak only being a potential ball-group tool completely misses the point of the thread. At this point there have been about 15 posts explaining the same thing, so it's hard to imagine you missed the argument by accident.

Streak has an enormous range, no target cap, and the CC is unblockable and undodgeable. That's what makes it stand out. It's the most effective CC in the game and it's not even close. It essentially has no real counterplay, regardless of whether it's being used by a ball group, a solo player, or a small group.

And the ball-group example actually makes the problem even more obvious. A lot of these groups eventually end up fighting around keeps where players are naturally compressed together. They don't necessarily need Rush of Agony to create the perfect setup. Streak itself is extremely effective at locking down pugs in those situations. Rush of Agony has a 6-person target cap, delay, and can be blocked. Dark Convergence has a long cooldown. If they added the same limitations on Streak that exist on Rush then all my complaints would cease to exist. Streak doesn't have those limitations.

CoE is already being addressed, so bringing it up doesn't answer the Streak argument at all. Even if CoE disappeared tomorrow, Streak would still have the exact same CC mechanics we're discussing. You can't use a separate balance issue as a reason to ignore an overtuned CC.

And I'm genuinely curious what you mean by the last paragraph. Are you saying the difficulty with Streak is that Sorc players have trouble judging the distance they need to travel because they can't accurately tell where they are in relation to their target? If so, I'm not sure how that supports your argument. If you mean something else by "accurately judge the distance," please clarify, because as written it sounds like you're arguing that Streak has a skill ceiling because players sometimes struggle with basic distance perception.

I think you're the one framing it that way. I was simply addressing your point about Streak being especially problematic when used in ball groups. My argument was a counter to that by saying that streak isn't the issue and I stand by that.

Streak is undoubtedly one of the strongest skills in the game, but I don't think skills should be nerfed simply because its strong. You have to look at the bigger picture and ask: what specific problems is Streak actually creating for the game?

Things like CoE, Inhale, ROA, etc. are also very strong, but the reason I advocate for nerfs to those abilities is because they create specific, problematic interactions—things like effectively infinite sustain which leads to permablock+heal spam or CC-like interactions that don't properly respect immunity. What does Streak actually do that's problematic, aside from allowing someone to annoy you by running away?

If the argument is that Sorcs shouldn't be able to Streak indefinitely, then I agree. But I think the better approach is to address what's enabling them to do that in the first place, which is CoE.

Streak is such a class-defining ability that I really don't want to see it nerfed simply because it's strong. Having one or two exceptionally powerful abilities is part of what makes individual classes unique and fun to play. I don't want to see the game become even more homogenized than it already is.

I think the stronger argument would be something along the lines of: "Using Streak in combination with X, Y, and Z creates a scenario with effectively zero counterplay while also dealing an unreasonable amount of damage." That's a legitimate argument for looking at the skill. But if the issue is simply Streak being used in combination with Curse, I don't really see that as particularly problematic.

I think there are a few major problems with that argument.

First, you're still framing Streak almost entirely around mobility, when that's not what I'm arguing needs to change. You ask what Streak does that's problematic "aside from allowing someone to annoy you by running away," but the issue being discussed is its CC, not its ability to escape.

The specific problematic interaction is pretty straightforward: Streak provides one of the strongest AoE CCs in the game, with no target cap, while being unblockable and undodgeable, and it does so as part of a mobility skill. I have no issue with this remaining a strong mobility skill, but it needs to be pointed out that those benefits are attached to the strongest mobility skill in the game. That creates effectively zero direct counterplay to the CC itself. You can't block it, dodge it, or prevent the Sorc from hitting multiple people with it. In large-scale PvP, that makes it incredibly effective at locking down groups.

That's why saying "strong skills shouldn't automatically be nerfed" misses the point. Nobody is asking for Streak to be nerfed merely because it's strong. We're identifying specific mechanics that make its CC disproportionately powerful: massive area, no target cap, no block/dodge counterplay, damage, and mobility.

I also don't buy the "class-defining" argument as a reason it can't be adjusted. You can keep Streak as the iconic Sorc mobility skill without preserving every single property of its CC. A 6-person target cap or making the stun blockable would leave the mobility—and the identity of the skill—completely intact while finally giving opponents some actual counterplay.

That's the bigger picture: the problem isn't that Streak is strong. The problem is that its CC has an unusually long list of advantages and virtually no direct defensive interaction for the people being hit by it.

CannedChicken wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

CannedChicken wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Ah yes, nerf one of the most iconic, class-defining, and fun-to-use skills in the game because it has the potential to be used by ball groups to kill groups of pugs. What a great idea.

On a serious note, I think you're looking at this the wrong way. No ball group is just going to streak into a randomly spread group of players before dumping their ultimates. The group will be too scattered for that to be effective. However, they might get pulled together by something like Rush of Agony or DC (which should never have been introduced into the game in the first place) and then stunned(ROA to be clear). At that point, it doesn't really matter whether the follow-up stun is Streak, Fear, Turn Evil, or the Warden charm.

Furthermore, the main issue with ball groups isn't really their kill potential. It's how incredibly tanky they are, with 45k+ health and who knows how many thousands worth of shields on top of that.

Personally, I'd address COE on Sorc long before I'd even consider touching Streak. Let Streak remain a strong and fun skill to use.

Lastly, I know a lot of Sorc haters don't want to hear this, but unironically, there is some skill involved in using Streak properly. A lot of Sorcs probably can't accurately judge the distance they need to travel to get the most out of it.

The framing around Streak only being a potential ball-group tool completely misses the point of the thread. At this point there have been about 15 posts explaining the same thing, so it's hard to imagine you missed the argument by accident.

Streak has an enormous range, no target cap, and the CC is unblockable and undodgeable. That's what makes it stand out. It's the most effective CC in the game and it's not even close. It essentially has no real counterplay, regardless of whether it's being used by a ball group, a solo player, or a small group.

And the ball-group example actually makes the problem even more obvious. A lot of these groups eventually end up fighting around keeps where players are naturally compressed together. They don't necessarily need Rush of Agony to create the perfect setup. Streak itself is extremely effective at locking down pugs in those situations. Rush of Agony has a 6-person target cap, delay, and can be blocked. Dark Convergence has a long cooldown. If they added the same limitations on Streak that exist on Rush then all my complaints would cease to exist. Streak doesn't have those limitations.

CoE is already being addressed, so bringing it up doesn't answer the Streak argument at all. Even if CoE disappeared tomorrow, Streak would still have the exact same CC mechanics we're discussing. You can't use a separate balance issue as a reason to ignore an overtuned CC.

And I'm genuinely curious what you mean by the last paragraph. Are you saying the difficulty with Streak is that Sorc players have trouble judging the distance they need to travel because they can't accurately tell where they are in relation to their target? If so, I'm not sure how that supports your argument. If you mean something else by "accurately judge the distance," please clarify, because as written it sounds like you're arguing that Streak has a skill ceiling because players sometimes struggle with basic distance perception.

I think you're the one framing it that way. I was simply addressing your point about Streak being especially problematic when used in ball groups. My argument was a counter to that by saying that streak isn't the issue and I stand by that.

Streak is undoubtedly one of the strongest skills in the game, but I don't think skills should be nerfed simply because its strong. You have to look at the bigger picture and ask: what specific problems is Streak actually creating for the game?

Things like CoE, Inhale, ROA, etc. are also very strong, but the reason I advocate for nerfs to those abilities is because they create specific, problematic interactions—things like effectively infinite sustain which leads to permablock+heal spam or CC-like interactions that don't properly respect immunity. What does Streak actually do that's problematic, aside from allowing someone to annoy you by running away?

If the argument is that Sorcs shouldn't be able to Streak indefinitely, then I agree. But I think the better approach is to address what's enabling them to do that in the first place, which is CoE.

Streak is such a class-defining ability that I really don't want to see it nerfed simply because it's strong. Having one or two exceptionally powerful abilities is part of what makes individual classes unique and fun to play. I don't want to see the game become even more homogenized than it already is.

I think the stronger argument would be something along the lines of: "Using Streak in combination with X, Y, and Z creates a scenario with effectively zero counterplay while also dealing an unreasonable amount of damage." That's a legitimate argument for looking at the skill. But if the issue is simply Streak being used in combination with Curse, I don't really see that as particularly problematic.

I think there are a few major problems with that argument.

First, you're still framing Streak almost entirely around mobility, when that's not what I'm arguing needs to change. You ask what Streak does that's problematic "aside from allowing someone to annoy you by running away," but the issue being discussed is its CC, not its ability to escape.

The specific problematic interaction is pretty straightforward: Streak provides one of the strongest AoE CCs in the game, with no target cap, while being unblockable and undodgeable, and it does so as part of a mobility skill. I have no issue with this remaining a strong mobility skill, but it needs to be pointed out that those benefits are attached to the strongest mobility skill in the game. That creates effectively zero direct counterplay to the CC itself. You can't block it, dodge it, or prevent the Sorc from hitting multiple people with it. In large-scale PvP, that makes it incredibly effective at locking down groups.

That's why saying "strong skills shouldn't automatically be nerfed" misses the point. Nobody is asking for Streak to be nerfed merely because it's strong. We're identifying specific mechanics that make its CC disproportionately powerful: massive area, no target cap, no block/dodge counterplay, damage, and mobility.

I also don't buy the "class-defining" argument as a reason it can't be adjusted. You can keep Streak as the iconic Sorc mobility skill without preserving every single property of its CC. A 6-person target cap or making the stun blockable would leave the mobility—and the identity of the skill—completely intact while finally giving opponents some actual counterplay.

That's the bigger picture: the problem isn't that Streak is strong. The problem is that its CC has an unusually long list of advantages and virtually no direct defensive interaction for the people being hit by it.

So, to be clear would you be satisfied if the only nerf was to put a cap on the amount of people that can be stunned by it?
In my experience it wouldn't make a difference in 95%+ of the situations I've been in but perhaps it might for very large scale pvp.

A 6-person target cap would be a step in the right direction, but I don't think that alone would be enough. Realistically, if Streak is going to retain its massive area, the CC needs to have some actual counterplay.

One option would be giving the stun a short delay and making it blockable, similar to the Arcanist rune CC. That would preserve the mobility and large area while giving the people on the receiving end an actual defensive interaction.

I'm not asking for Streak to be gutted. It just needs some limitation or counterplay on the CC itself. One ability having that many advantages with essentially no way to defend against the stun doesn't make sense.

No offense but your double CC nerf suggestion would kill the skill as a CC lol.

If making the CC blockable would somehow "kill the skill as a CC," then why were you arguing that Fossilize is as strong as or even stronger than Streak because it has more effects attached to it?

Fossilize can be roll dodged. The important distinction is that it still has a defensive counterplay that Streak doesn't.

So if Fossilize is supposedly comparable to or stronger than Streak despite being roll-dodgeable, why would making Streak blockable or giving it a short delay suddenly "kill" it as a CC?

You're arguing that another CC can be just as strong despite having counterplay, while simultaneously arguing that giving Streak the same sort of counterplay would make it useless. Those positions don't really fit together.

There is a reason why good players use unblockable CCs on every build. If you fought me or anyone good without an unblockable CC, you are never landing a single combo. Making a stun blockable completely kills it against good players because they block. All. The. Time.

The thing is Fossilize locks the stun onto a target, while Streak requires aiming the stun. Giving it a delay would also kill its CC potential because you now have to aim at someone, then hope that he doesn't move away from the affected area or cleanse it off if it's a debuff.

These suggestions would not work in practice and would make people swap to BoL instead because it's a much better mobility tool. Streak would be left in storage and Sorc would never land a single combo vs good players. These suggestions are genuinely horrible lol.

I already addressed this. The delayed-stun proposal was specifically not a "skill shot with a delayed explosion that you have to hope someone stays inside." You're arguing against a version of the idea that I didn't propose. I've already pointed this out.

The idea is that Streak hits the target and applies a debuff, with the stun triggering shortly afterward unless the target responds appropriately, similar to how other delayed CC mechanics give the defender a window to react. The Sorc still has to successfully land Streak in the first place; the delay simply creates counterplay after the hit.

So the "hope they don't move out of the area" argument doesn't apply to what I actually suggested. Please read the proposal before explaining why a different version of it wouldn't work.

Again, your suggestion is flawed. Streak already requires the caster to do 2 things:

1) Properly aim their crosshair at a target, which gets increasingly difficult against players with high movement speed
2) If the caster is a melee player, they need to position themselves correctly so as to not create too much distance between them and the target after Streaking. If the caster is a ranged player, they also need to position themselves correctly in order to create enough distance to avoid getting hit after using the ability.

That is already pretty damn hard for an average player. Most of them either mindlessly Streak through you and fail to connect the follow-up spammable because they allowed too much spacing, or did not create enough distance between them and a melee target and end up getting counter-bursted.

Imagine having to perform those 2 aforementioned mechanics, then also pray your target doesn't track the debuff or block between abilities. No good player would use Streak if it worked as suggested. The debuff can be cleansed off, and Streak being blockable would render it trash against good players who frequently block between abilities and track their debuffs.

With all due respect, you just learned the difference today between block canceling and block casting. You swore up and down you block casted every single ability unless you were kiting, which was verifiably false when looking at your own videos that you linked. You have played the game for such a long time and you just learned today what the difference was, that's a little alarming. You bragged about having done over 15,000 duels but still lack that basic understanding, so when you keep going back to streak having to be aimed as if it's some skillshot or that people can just run out of streak as your main talking points, when you can't reactionarily run out of it, it lands on deaf ears. That as your rationale is so off-base and faulty it makes me want to side with someone on the opposite end of the argument just because you are so bad faith in your engagement with it.

Have a better response. If you legit don't have a better response to why streak shouldn't be nerfed other than "omg you have to aim it" or "go fast and streak will miss!!!" then you just don't have an actual good reason as to why it shouldn't be nerfed, because those reasons are not it. Stop saying you can play perfectly around streak, when as I said before, I have watched you die to sorcs solo, and watched you get stunned by the skill you say you can react to every time because you know when someone is going to streak. It is a silly talking point and does nothing but make your argument look shaky.

I will ask you again, and the fact that you gave me shattering rocks as an alternative is just a joke. But can you name a single CC that is analogous to streak in the way that it functions?

[snip]

Good substantiative argument to what I said. You literally gave shattering rocks as an alternative to streak and you think I'm the one trolling? After 10 years on the game you said you block cast every single skill you cast, and you think I'm the one trolling? That isn't a catch all response for when you can't argue with something, you don't just get to write someone off as trolling. I'll ask for the 4th time now, can you give me an analogous CC comparable to streak that does everything streak can?

A debate in good faith is when one party makes corrections to their original claim to clarify their point, and the other party acknowledges that correction and moves forward with the new position. What you have been doing is using a specific line I said that wasn't clarified, then holding on to that line to argue against my experience in the game in a very hostile and bait-ey manner. You're not really arguing in good faith.

Also, knowing that you and several people in this thread are Adrestia members who play in organized groups, I think I understand your motive now. Streak is the only skill that still disrupts your group, so you naturally want it nerfed to benefit your playstyle, while also abusing the more harmful mechanics like heal/shield stacking.

I'm not going to give you an analogous CC comparison because it is a ridiculous request framed to make Streak look imbalanced. I've already laid out several strong CCs with mechanics that Streak simply does not have, but you will never argue in good faith. I will stop responding to you here from now on, as any further interaction will risk potential moderation. However, feel free to discuss this matter in game or on Discord.

What specific line that wasn't clarified did I use? You are literally just making stuff up LOL You said multiple times that you were block casting, and I tried to clarfiy with you, I tried to be charitable towards you, like 3 separate times, and you swore up and down you were block casting. I tried to be charitable to you, YOU chose to continue to push either a lie or misunderstanding about block casting vs block canceling, but you were literally bragging about having over 15,000 duels and knowing how to play against literally every single class and every single interaction. Those are your own words not mine. So, when those are your own words, and I give you the opportunity to clarify your own statement multiple times, and you chose to continue to push that statement, what do you think it comes off as? You should have enough knowledge at this point, given your time played and the experience YOU were bragging about to know the difference between the two.

In addition, you were being bad faith. Do you not know what arguing in bad faith is, or do you genuinely in your mind believe shattering rocks is a good, equal comparison to streak as a cc. You, as someone who has played as long as yourself think shattering rocks and streak are equal CCs? That is your honest opinion?

Also, you can try to escape whatever you want by claiming people on the forums are in Adrestia, even if literally every single person on the forms was an Adrestia player (there is literally one other person on Adrestia that posts on the forums), that doesn't change you not engaging logically with the points. I didn't even engage in this thread for the first few days it was posted because I thought it was silly and sorc had already been nerfed when it didn't need to be, you can even go look back at my comments throughout the last few days, I was one of the few people advocating for more of a DK nerf (Adrestia mainly uses DKs, I just advocate for things I think are strong to get nerfed because I'm honest about balance) I originally read the comments you were making, as someone who has played as long as you have, and knew you were not being honest in your arguments or you were genuinely just out of your depth so I commented.

If you think I care about streak being nerfed for my ballgroup, when we have someone running streak in my own group, I genuinely don't know what to tell you, this is just you further trying to derail the conversation. If streak got nerfed it would probably hurt my group more than benefit it, just like the DK nerfs that I was advocating for.

I will ask for a 5th time. Can you give me an analogous CC comparable to streak that does everything streak can?
[edited to remove quote]

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Honestly, if Streak only stunned one player or was blockable, it’d be a much more balanced skill. Power creep, especially regarding sustain, has turned Streak into an absurdly spammable mobility tool, while also making it ridiculously strong offensively.

It simply does too much for how few drawbacks it has. The increasing cost used to be what kept it in check, but with the direction the game is heading, where sustain is becoming almost irrelevant across multiple classes, its offensive capabilities should be adjusted. Either that, or its cost needs to be increased significantly to account for modern sustain levels.

Imo streak stunning only one target seems a good solution. Its completely overloaded as a cc tool as it is and that would seriously hinder the skill for ball groups while still allowing it to be a useful cc for others.

forum_propagandist wrote: »

forum_propagandist wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

forum_propagandist wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

CannedChicken wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Streak is not getting nerfed lol. No valid reason to nerf this ability at all.

"No valid reason at all" is a pretty hard claim to make when I've already given several specific reasons for a nerf.

I've pointed out that Streak is an instant AoE CC that is unblockable and undodgeable, has no meaningful target cap, deals damage, and is attached to arguably the strongest mobility ability in the game. There isn't another ability that comes close to combining that level of utility, CC, and mobility into one skill.

I've also explained why the lack of a target cap is particularly problematic in group PvP, where small groups and ball groups can use it for instant mass CC.

You don't have to agree that those things justify a nerf, but simply saying there is "no valid reason at all" without addressing any of them isn't really an argument. It's just dismissing the argument without engaging with it.

If none of those are valid reasons in your view, then explain why. That's the part I'm interested in hearing.

You forgot to mention it's a 15m skill shot that requires aiming and fails to work on uneven terrain and against mobile targets.

Imagine calling a 6×15m area a skill shot. LOL.

You barely need to aim — just point Streak in their general direction and you're hitting them. Calling this a skill shot like it requires precision is ridiculous. It's arguably the easiest CC in the game to land.

Easiest CC to land lol. Javelin is a max range CC that's way easier to land.

Yes, I was being hyperbolic, well done catching that. It still does not rescue the claim that streak is difficult cc to land.

Streak throws a 6-by-15-meter area directly in front of your character. You are not lining up a pixel-perfect skill shot, calculating a lead on a moving target, or placing a mage’s guild rune under somebody's feet. You point yourself vaguely toward the person you want to hit and press the button. Calling that difficult is an humiliating confession that even the game’s easiest skill to use is somehow asking more of you than you can manage.

forum_propagandist wrote: »

forum_propagandist wrote: »

forum_propagandist wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

forum_propagandist wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

CannedChicken wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Streak is not getting nerfed lol. No valid reason to nerf this ability at all.

"No valid reason at all" is a pretty hard claim to make when I've already given several specific reasons for a nerf.

I've pointed out that Streak is an instant AoE CC that is unblockable and undodgeable, has no meaningful target cap, deals damage, and is attached to arguably the strongest mobility ability in the game. There isn't another ability that comes close to combining that level of utility, CC, and mobility into one skill.

I've also explained why the lack of a target cap is particularly problematic in group PvP, where small groups and ball groups can use it for instant mass CC.

You don't have to agree that those things justify a nerf, but simply saying there is "no valid reason at all" without addressing any of them isn't really an argument. It's just dismissing the argument without engaging with it.

If none of those are valid reasons in your view, then explain why. That's the part I'm interested in hearing.

You forgot to mention it's a 15m skill shot that requires aiming and fails to work on uneven terrain and against mobile targets.

Imagine calling a 6×15m area a skill shot. LOL.

You barely need to aim — just point Streak in their general direction and you're hitting them. Calling this a skill shot like it requires precision is ridiculous. It's arguably the easiest CC in the game to land.

Easiest CC to land lol. Javelin is a max range CC that's way easier to land.

Yes, I was being hyperbolic, well done catching that. It still does not rescue the claim that streak is difficult cc to land.

Streak throws a 6-by-15-meter area directly in front of your character. You are not lining up a pixel-perfect skill shot, calculating a lead on a moving target, or placing a mage’s guild rune under somebody's feet. You point yourself vaguely toward the person you want to hit and press the button. Calling that difficult is an humiliating confession that even the game’s easiest skill to use is somehow asking more of you than you can manage.

Just because it has a larger conal effect does not diminish its nature. A skill shot is a skill shot. Compare that to single target CCs like Javelin or Fossilize which are even easier to land, don't require aiming or misplace your character if you position incorrectly, Streak is much harder to use.

Also, using subpar CCs like Mage's Guild rune that nobody uses to make Streak sound easier to land is disingenous. If you're going to make that argument, at least compare it to meta CC abilities.

hoangdz wrote: »

forum_propagandist wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

Lol that video is ridiculous. So sprinting and locking your stam regen and ability to cast skills is the equivalent to streak where you instantly cross a distance, can blockcast to reduce damage taken if needed, and then can turn your camera to plan your next GCD. Alright. Streak is too weak!

Your video actually shows that streak is freaking OP. A competent sorc could LOS and become unhittable and negate damage in the same way a NB cloak negates damage. If you actually managed to get close, streak stun would stop you again.

Also you had hurricane, most classes do not have Minor Expedition in their kit. If a class builds 3x swift they lose damage.

Please do the opportunity cost between streaking 3x in a row vs casting Quick Cloak and sprinting for 4s and tell me which drain more resources.

I read through this thread before bed, and this take genuinely gave me a laugh. Yes, casting Streak three times costs more total resources — congratulations, you’ve identified how ramping cost works!! That misses the point entirely however. Trading resources for health and survival is exactly what players do whenever they heal, block, or dodge roll.

Players chain Streak because it is an exceptionally strong mobility tool. When they are low on health and need to escape immediately, the increasing cost becomes a secondary concern. If resource efficiency were the only thing that mattered then sorcs would just use race against time and sprint away instead. Obviously they dont, because streak provides far more value.

Your first paragraph is irrelevant and doesn't address my point. I asked you to do a cost analysis between casting Streak 3x in a row vs casting Quick Cloak and sprinting for 4s. You wrote a bunch of words without meaning.

Casting Streak 3x in a row would have costed you over 10k mag, while sprinting and casing Quick Cloak in the same duration would have required less stamina in comparison.

We obviously do not play the same game then because this is how I chase down Sorcs all the time in Cyro without Streak. I spend less stamina while they exhaust a ton more mag. I could make a video proving this too, but you'd deny it anyway lol

You did not ask me to do a cost analysis, that was a question you posed to someone else. I would not, and did not, contest that a player would spend more resources by streaking three times in a row vs. casting quick cloak and sprinting. You are shadowboxing against arguments that I never made.

I would not deny video evidence of this cost analysis. Again, I never at any point disagreed with your argument about the cost. You are conflating me with other people - please respond to me about things I have said and not about what you imagine I have said.

You state that my first paragraph is "irrelevant" when you lack the reading comprehension to understand it. The reason that players cast streak several times in a row is because the mobility is worth the excessive cost. With the distance created they can heal themselves and reapply their buffs. This is a common tactic employed by sorcs consistently for over a decade, if this was an ineffective tactic then it would have died years ago. Streak is the only skill in the game that offers that kind of advantage unless one wants to use the ever buggy and unreliable vault.

Strongly disagree with anyone saying “cooldown”. We don’t need cooldowns in ESO. Leave that for the slow paced games.

Anyway, I think it would be interesting if you could block streak, like actually block it, stopping the Sorc at the point of block. Feel like that’s a risky adjustment though cause it would buff permablock troll tanks.

There's nothing about Sorc that needs a nerf - some buffs, sure, but talk of nerfs is crazy.

I spent a couple of hours torturing myself on a sorc build in Battlegrounds this week, for the Golden Pursuit. Let's just say that PVP is currently dominated by wolves, Dargonknights, and the occasional Arcanist. It's boring and as unbalanced as it has ever been.

That's because DK and wolf have already had their "class balance", whereas Sorc is at the bottom of the list (as usual). So, I can only conclude that this post was started by the one DK who got caught in a Streak, and as a result it took them 3 seconds to kill the Sorc instead of the usual 1.25 seconds.

SMH.

Well with sustain the way it is now sorcs can streak 2x in a row and not care.

But who [snip] actually streaks 3x in a row? A sorc can streak, sprint cast for 4 seconds, then streak again when the cost is normal. Lol.
[edited for profanity bypass]

MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

forum_propagandist wrote: »

forum_propagandist wrote: »

forum_propagandist wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

forum_propagandist wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

CannedChicken wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Streak is not getting nerfed lol. No valid reason to nerf this ability at all.

"No valid reason at all" is a pretty hard claim to make when I've already given several specific reasons for a nerf.

I've pointed out that Streak is an instant AoE CC that is unblockable and undodgeable, has no meaningful target cap, deals damage, and is attached to arguably the strongest mobility ability in the game. There isn't another ability that comes close to combining that level of utility, CC, and mobility into one skill.

I've also explained why the lack of a target cap is particularly problematic in group PvP, where small groups and ball groups can use it for instant mass CC.

You don't have to agree that those things justify a nerf, but simply saying there is "no valid reason at all" without addressing any of them isn't really an argument. It's just dismissing the argument without engaging with it.

If none of those are valid reasons in your view, then explain why. That's the part I'm interested in hearing.

You forgot to mention it's a 15m skill shot that requires aiming and fails to work on uneven terrain and against mobile targets.

Imagine calling a 6×15m area a skill shot. LOL.

You barely need to aim — just point Streak in their general direction and you're hitting them. Calling this a skill shot like it requires precision is ridiculous. It's arguably the easiest CC in the game to land.

Easiest CC to land lol. Javelin is a max range CC that's way easier to land.

Yes, I was being hyperbolic, well done catching that. It still does not rescue the claim that streak is difficult cc to land.

Streak throws a 6-by-15-meter area directly in front of your character. You are not lining up a pixel-perfect skill shot, calculating a lead on a moving target, or placing a mage’s guild rune under somebody's feet. You point yourself vaguely toward the person you want to hit and press the button. Calling that difficult is an humiliating confession that even the game’s easiest skill to use is somehow asking more of you than you can manage.

Just because it has a larger conal effect does not diminish its nature. A skill shot is a skill shot. Compare that to single target CCs like Javelin or Fossilize which are even easier to land, don't require aiming or misplace your character if you position incorrectly, Streak is much harder to use.

Also, using subpar CCs like Mage's Guild rune that nobody uses to make Streak sound easier to land is disingenous. If you're going to make that argument, at least compare it to meta CC abilities.

Streak is not a skill shot. It is extremely easy to hit. If if were actually a "skill shot" that was difficult to land then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

They should just make Streak an actual skill shot where the CC only affects players around the endpoint of the Streak, rather than giving it that enormous 6×17 area.

I'm honestly not sure why the largest-area CC in the game also has some of the fewest counters. If the CC were concentrated around the endpoint, you'd still preserve the mobility and reward accurate positioning while giving the ability a much more reasonable risk/reward profile.

Right now, Streak gives you massive mobility and an enormous AoE CC at the same time. That's an absurd amount of utility for one ability.

ceruulean wrote: »

But who [snip] actually streaks 3x in a row?

I streak x8 in a row usually. 😎
[edited to remove quote]

I don't think it needs to be blockable or dodgeable, nor do I think it should receive any sort of cooldown or reduction to it's AOE size. Whether or not people think it is difficult to land a streak, it is a "skill shot" ability that has a reasonably high skill cap to use as a stun with things like spacing, well timed camera panning, etc to be considered when using it. Perhaps there are settings and use cases that diminish the importance of those things, but when thinking about it compared to other stuns in the game, I do think it has some of the most room for skill expression out of any of them.

At most, I could see a reasonable argument being made about either the base cost needing a slight increase or the escalating cost needing a slight increase. Sustain is obviously much easier post hybridization, and dramatically easier post class mastery passives with COE being added. It is a little ridiculous seeing sorcerers that often aren't build into max mag streaking 4-5 times in a row.

Wait for patch 51 SORCS GOD WILL BE EVERYWHERE

MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »

And it honestly amazes me how many "skilled" players keep trying to argue that Streak is some difficult skill shot. It is one of the easiest CCs in the game to land. If you're consistently missing people with Streak, maybe the problem isn't the ability's skill ceiling.

They went into Vengeance, had to play with balanced streak (it's still unblockable undodgable AOE at the endpoint), realized they don't like being nerfed, then left and went back to easy mode streak.

React wrote: »

Well, the comment you're quoting never suggested it was difficult to land. Just that there are more factors to consider when casting it than the CCs you're comparing it to (which would be nightblade fear, ww fear, FG fear?). It isn't like the positional displacement, additional camera panning/targeting, and increased cost scaling are non-factors.

What do you mean by "positional displacement" and "additional camera panning/targeting"? Streak doesn't require any targeting at all. You simply aim the direction you want to travel and cast it.

And if Streak actually required some kind of precise camera panning or targeting to land the CC, it would be significantly worse on console. We know that's obviously not the case, because console/controller Sorcs use Streak just fine.

You're fabricating a level of mechanical difficulty to the ability that simply isn't there.

React wrote: »

I like to counterplay streak in a few ways - momentum jumping backwards when I know a sorc will streak through/towards me, to place myself at the position they will land in. Moving frequently to either side of them to increase the chance they'll miss the ability. Positioning myself near walls or other terrain features so they can't travel past me if they want to stun me with it. Casting sprint in between every ability to constantly remain close to them, forcing them to waste stuns on me by repositioning, giving me free CC immunity from their mobility skill.

For me, the part of the skill that really lacks any counterplay is the nature of streaking many times in a row, which is where I think a nerf might actually be warranted in the form of a base cost increase or increase to the ramping cost.

I'll give you credit for this: you're the first person in this thread to actually present some new ideas for dealing with Streak.The problem is that most of them still aren't actual counterplay, and the one positional example you gave doesn't work the way you think it does.

Momentum jumping, constantly moving side to side, and trying to force the Sorc to waste Streaks all rely on the Sorc making a mistake. You're essentially saying the counterplay is to make yourself harder to hit and hope the other player misses. That's not a defensive interaction with the CC; that's relying on player error.

And standing against a wall doesn't prevent the stun either. You still get stunned when Streak hits you while you're against a wall. The wall may prevent the Sorc from traveling past you, but it doesn't stop the CC from landing.

So I'll give you credit for at least trying to identify some ways to play around Streak, but none of these actually provide a reliable counter to the CC itself. If Streak connects, you still can't block it or dodge it.

That's the fundamental issue I've been pointing out throughout this thread. There is a difference between avoiding an ability and having counterplay against an ability after it has been successfully landed. Most of your suggestions are the former, and the wall suggestion doesn't actually prevent the CC at all.

CannedChicken wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Strongly disagree with anyone saying “cooldown”. We don’t need cooldowns in ESO. Leave that for the slow paced games.

Anyway, I think it would be interesting if you could block streak, like actually block it, stopping the Sorc at the point of block. Feel like that’s a risky adjustment though cause it would buff permablock troll tanks.

Sorc already has Rune Cage, which is unblockable. You can use that against permablock tanks, or swap to it when you're specifically dealing with that playstyle.

If we're getting to the point where we're afraid to give Streak reasonable counterplay because it might indirectly benefit permablock tanks, then the answer is to address permablock in Cyrodiil separately, not to leave Streak's CC without counterplay.

We shouldn't be keeping an overtuned ability untouched because another broken mechanic might benefit from the change. Balance Streak on its own merits, and address permablock separately.

I don’t think it’s broken though, I just said blocking it and stopping a Sorc in their tracks would be interesting.

I get more annoyed with Ball of a lightning than I do streak. BoL is a get out if jail free card.