The proposed Werewolf nerfs get it wrong once again.

Wuuffyy · August 8

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

So basically, cost of all WW skills was increased across the board, to the point where it is the same or higher than before WW re-fresh, the dmg of all those skills remained the same - lower than before WW re-fresh, healing of those skill remained lower than before WW re-fresh and WW no longer has 30% max stamina bonus and unique dmg mitigation buff...

If PTS in its current state will go live, I can't see any one except from sorc pure-class being able to play WW (and I am not talking about PvP here). Every one else will have to use HA constantly and use 2 ulti-gen sets cuz you won't be able to sustain casting WW skills fast enough to get ulti & stay in WW form solo - even with Pack Leader.

Shapeshifter’s Chain, Hide of the Werewolf, Salvation, or all sustaining sets will be almost mandatory depending on the build

That sounds like an awful build. Haha

It’s the true secret to the master-level ‘meme build’.

‘Jack of nothing, master of none’

AdonisJorge · August 8

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

So basically, cost of all WW skills was increased across the board, to the point where it is the same or higher than before WW re-fresh, the dmg of all those skills remained the same - lower than before WW re-fresh, healing of those skill remained lower than before WW re-fresh and WW no longer has 30% max stamina bonus and unique dmg mitigation buff...

If PTS in its current state will go live, I can't see any one except from sorc pure-class being able to play WW (and I am not talking about PvP here). Every one else will have to use HA constantly and use 2 ulti-gen sets cuz you won't be able to sustain casting WW skills fast enough to get ulti & stay in WW form solo - even with Pack Leader.

Shapeshifter’s Chain, Hide of the Werewolf, Salvation, or all sustaining sets will be almost mandatory depending on the build

That sounds like an awful build. Haha

Exactly, it looks like that’s the intention behind the Werewolf nerfs — because of course we need to nerf one-bar builds that make ‘pro players’ lose to ‘casuals'.

Major_Mangle · August 8

AdonisJorge wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

So basically, cost of all WW skills was increased across the board, to the point where it is the same or higher than before WW re-fresh, the dmg of all those skills remained the same - lower than before WW re-fresh, healing of those skill remained lower than before WW re-fresh and WW no longer has 30% max stamina bonus and unique dmg mitigation buff...

If PTS in its current state will go live, I can't see any one except from sorc pure-class being able to play WW (and I am not talking about PvP here). Every one else will have to use HA constantly and use 2 ulti-gen sets cuz you won't be able to sustain casting WW skills fast enough to get ulti & stay in WW form solo - even with Pack Leader.

Shapeshifter’s Chain, Hide of the Werewolf, Salvation, or all sustaining sets will be almost mandatory depending on the build

That sounds like an awful build. Haha

Exactly, it looks like that’s the intention behind the Werewolf nerfs — because of course we need to nerf one-bar builds that make ‘pro players’ lose to ‘casuals'.

Majority of the players on the forums don't know how to build properly for PvP (the PvP ww community is no different). Then you get threads complaining that ww is garbage and unviable.

The sustain nerfs were necessary imo. Even without sorc class mastery it was ridiculously easy to sustain in PvP (sustain in any CP enabled PvP is a massive joke that requires zero investments).

People also need to stop comparing ww to dk sustain which is a massive overperforming outlier that should be nerfed (and not be the baseline). Ww is fine on PTS in PvP if you adjust your setup and playstyle accordingly.

dark_hunterxmg · August 8

Major_Mangle wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

So basically, cost of all WW skills was increased across the board, to the point where it is the same or higher than before WW re-fresh, the dmg of all those skills remained the same - lower than before WW re-fresh, healing of those skill remained lower than before WW re-fresh and WW no longer has 30% max stamina bonus and unique dmg mitigation buff...

If PTS in its current state will go live, I can't see any one except from sorc pure-class being able to play WW (and I am not talking about PvP here). Every one else will have to use HA constantly and use 2 ulti-gen sets cuz you won't be able to sustain casting WW skills fast enough to get ulti & stay in WW form solo - even with Pack Leader.

Shapeshifter’s Chain, Hide of the Werewolf, Salvation, or all sustaining sets will be almost mandatory depending on the build

That sounds like an awful build. Haha

Exactly, it looks like that’s the intention behind the Werewolf nerfs — because of course we need to nerf one-bar builds that make ‘pro players’ lose to ‘casuals'.

Majority of the players on the forums don't know how to build properly for PvP (the PvP ww community is no different). Then you get threads complaining that ww is garbage and unviable.

The sustain nerfs were necessary imo. Even without sorc class mastery it was ridiculously easy to sustain in PvP (sustain in any CP enabled PvP is a massive joke that requires zero investments).

People also need to stop comparing ww to dk sustain which is a massive overperforming outlier that should be nerfed (and not be the baseline). Ww is fine on PTS in PvP if you adjust your setup and playstyle accordingly.

Well, I do happen to know how to build properly and you are wrong about the nerfs being necessary. As the thread topic states, the nerfs are getting it wrong again.
We are correctly comparing Werewolf to Dragon Knight. Dragon Knight is the only reworked class so far and is clearly the direction that classes are intended to go from here. (see the lack real of nerfs and additional buffs since the refresh)
Dragon Knight is still stronger than Werewolf, so the precious meta has been protected already. The Werewolf rework hasn't even been completed and they're over here doing a re-refresh without understanding what they're even doing.

Zyaneth_Bal · August 10

Just make ww transformation an actual ulti that it is. A temporary power boost similar to other transformation ultis. Being permanent it’s basically a class of its own which doesn’t make any sense.

dark_hunterxmg · August 10

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Just make ww transformation an actual ulti that it is. A temporary power boost similar to other transformation ultis. Being permanent it’s basically a class of its own which doesn’t make any sense.

That's a good way to make people stop playing the game. Although the constant nerfs are driving that pretty hard already.

Erickson9610 · August 10

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Just make ww transformation an actual ulti that it is. A temporary power boost similar to other transformation ultis. Being permanent it’s basically a class of its own which doesn’t make any sense.

With that kind of logic, you might argue that Vampire should only get to use its Vampire Active and Passive abilities while transformed as a Blood Scion. Yet, I guarantee there would be pushback to that idea, because Vampire is designed as something constantly affecting your character.

Similarly, Werewolf should remain a sustainable transformation, as we only get to use the Werewolf Active and Passive abilities while transformed. We could sustain the transformation indefinitely in TES V: Skyrim, and it deserves to be treated like its own Class in this game.

dark_hunterxmg · August 22

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

I'm here to say I told you so. Werewolf is being nerfed again with class mastery passives in mind. You know, the ones that will get dialed back with subsequent reworks? Yeah, those.

Werewolf isn't even finished from the last patch. There are still bugs to be worked out and we're over here being hit with nerfs that miss the mark again.

Just to reiterate this point. I called this during U50 pts.

Arunei · August 22

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

I'm here to say I told you so. Werewolf is being nerfed again with class mastery passives in mind. You know, the ones that will get dialed back with subsequent reworks? Yeah, those.

Werewolf isn't even finished from the last patch. There are still bugs to be worked out and we're over here being hit with nerfs that miss the mark again.

Just to reiterate this point. I called this during U50 pts.

A number of us did. It's why we've been so vehement against WW nerfs when the things that were causing the problems either weren't being addressed (Sorc and to an extent Warden Masteries) or took ages to get addressed (Signet).

Wuuffyy · August 22

Arunei wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

I'm here to say I told you so. Werewolf is being nerfed again with class mastery passives in mind. You know, the ones that will get dialed back with subsequent reworks? Yeah, those.

Werewolf isn't even finished from the last patch. There are still bugs to be worked out and we're over here being hit with nerfs that miss the mark again.

Just to reiterate this point. I called this during U50 pts.

A number of us did. It's why we've been so vehement against WW nerfs when the things that were causing the problems either weren't being addressed (Sorc and to an extent Warden Masteries) or took ages to get addressed (Signet).

I was against Signet; I also had suggested our own ‘werewolf masteries’ along with ‘low value’ numbers as placeholders.

Even this patch, I say they should just strip all the masteries away for now (in PvP), return sustain (at LEAST to PvE and in potentially some smaller capacity to PvP), and/or buff the damage heal (Hircine’s Rage)

If they still wanted to go with the ‘Class Appeal’ later then they could have a damage and/or tank-oriented ‘werewolf mastery’ that has some animation for each class and deals like shock for sorc, disease for necro, etc.-etc.

That would actually be appropriate considering that many of the werewolves that use ‘class skills’ in game use their own version of them that is likely empowered in some way by their lycanthropy (which I suppose makes sense as to why they are not the standard skills).