Stamina is a resource that derives from the physical aspect of your character, whilst magicka is a resource from the mental/spiritual aspect of your character. They're two completely different things. Hybridisation messed it up a bit but removing any remaining semblance of lore from the combat system would strip the game of its identity.

Arunei wrote: »

Frayton wrote: »

dubq77 wrote: »

Frayton wrote: »

Adhering to old ESO gameplay has long gone out the window. Hybridization is a prime example of that.

Still a bad idea. Should sprinting then consume this theoretical "power bar"? No thanks.

I think it's weird that blocking can cost magicka if we want instead of stamina, but here we are.

Because things like wards and barriers exist in this universe. Multiple Skills have the words in their names, multiple spells throughout the franchise focus around those abilities. Blocking consuming Magicka can 1000% be taken to mean you're channeling Magicka into whatever you're blocking with to reinforce it and essentially make it like a ward.

You're supposed to cast a specific spell to ward/shield with magicka. This is just a gamified mechanic to have physical blocking cost magicka, we don't need to try to make up lore-based excuses for it.

We should also make light attacks just cycle through each ability on your bar, since pressing 6 different ability keys is needlessly complicated!

Nah, we good.

I'm not generally one to dogpile, but as others have said, this is a fundamental part of what makes the game an Elder Scrolls game. It should not happen.

Sabre wrote: »

ESO could be further simplified by eliminating Stamina and Magicka by combining them into 1 simple 'Power Bar'. The stamina distinction of block, sprint, dodge roll, etc should no longer unfairly favor 'stamina' over magicka as a resource since many other elements of the system no longer respect a clear distinction between these two resources.

Neat. And while we're at it, lets replace mounts with exotic cars and skills with different types of firearms. Perhaps add some tubes and plants that eat people. And maybe make set it in space. Or the old west. Why keep anything that makes ESO the game it is supposed to be?

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

You guys are forgetting that this is Elder Scrolls Online, not another game.
Elsewhere, "mana" or other terms are used to define a generic power, but here we are in ESO, where we historically have Magicka and Stamina.
We cannot/should not violate the foundations of the game.

You're not wrong... but if that were "really true", then why is the best Sorcerer DPS build Stamina? Shouldn't it be Magicka? And the same applies to some other classes.
And you say, "We cannot/should not violate the foundations of the game". What foundations?! We've already been ignoring those for so long. We can include roles in this discussion as well as the game's core design, but that would be another discussion that probably goes nowhere.

And this is an Elder Scrolls Online game, not some other game, as you said. But this is NOT an Elder Scrolls game anymore. It hasn't been for a long time. We traded all of that for a DPS only game.

Personally i like hybridization to be reversed it was better before.

I strongly dislike hybridisation and like some others wish it would be reversed, but sadly they are doubling down on this in the upcoming patch, so that is a pipe dream at this point.

It does not make any thematic sense for stamina to create magical effects. Because I dislike it so much, I avoid it in my roleplay (all but one of my characters have roleplay builds exclusively) as much as possible.

I don't know if this post is satirical, but either way, I would like to keep the magicka and stamina bars as they are. At least as it is, we still have the option of using both in thematically appropriate ways, even if it is not at all meta (or possibly even effective).

(Edit for typo.)

The original post is a little tongue in cheek in concept. The post points out the premise that Hybridization and Subclassing are wrong and should be reverted 100%. In fact, this poster believes these two things are one of the biggest factors that have and will continue to kill this great game.

The irony of the post is that, as some have pointed out in the comments...magicka and stamina are clearly separate, and should be so in a high fantasy game like eso. However, the game continues down this spiral of giving away alls skills to everyone.

Prior to hybrid/subclassing, each class was essentially 3-4 different classes depending upon the *choices* and path a player chose to pursue. Those attribute and skill choices could be changed at a shrine. It all worked. And, most importantly, magicka and stamina were separate. Magicka having more magicka class morphs, while stam had more weapons use vs only a staff for mag. It balanced out that way and it worked with stam, tank, mag, heal distinction.

Hybrid and Sublass destroyed these choices, interesting builds. Now it is all dumbed down to nothing. MMO players in the end like distinction, choices, build paths, etc. Plus, combat is now a mess. ESO claimed last year that they were not releasing a chapter, and were going to balance and focus on game mechanics, even pvp. Then...Subclassing. A cheap quest re-selling the same skill to everyone. And...it created a bigger mess...no balance, no game mech...it went the opposite direction.

AdonisJorge wrote: »

No, it would cease to be an Elder Scrolls game if that happened. Stamina and Magicka have existed since at least TES III: Morrowind

Actually, the division into stamina and mana appeared back in the arena, so this is the foundation of the entire series.

Sabre wrote: »

ESO could be further simplified by eliminating Stamina and Magicka by combining them into 1 simple 'Power Bar'. The stamina distinction of block, sprint, dodge roll, etc should no longer unfairly favor 'stamina' over magicka as a resource since many other elements of the system no longer respect a clear distinction between these two resources.

NO, just no.

I say: remove the health pool instead, we are a vestige spirit anyhow, why should we be dying

I would have liked to see the hybridization move in a direction where all skills (Items on your skill bar) use magicka, but feats (sprinting, sneaking, blocking, etc) use stamina, but not the outright consolidation of the 2 resources.

I think that ship has long sailed though. It would be too large of an effort for the current development team and it wouldn't really improve gameplay in a way that would be universally liked.

At this point, the community should just pitch for minor adjustments to outliers and not complete restructuring, as I don't have very much confidence in any major change coming without a lot of bugs and unintended side effects that will never get addressed.

Welcome to the problem with satire: a lot of people don’t understand it’s satire.

I’m not a giant fan of hybridization, and I think it’s gone overboard. There is a reason to have some skills cost magicka and others cost stam, but this desire to make everyone be able to do anything with any build really makes the two resource bars feel meaningless.

I’ve always been of the opinion that if a skill is magical in nature (i.e. summoning things or casting spells, like most Class skills), then it should cost magicka. A more physical skill (i.e. actual attacks without spell effects, like most non-staff weapon skills) should cost stamina. If you want to be a barbarian, then logically you should not be an archmage and vice versa.

After all, look at the number of people going on about “but but but look how it was done in the previous Elder Scrolls games!!!” above. Why not apply this same logic? Or did I miss the game that let you cast a fireball using your stamina instead of magicka?

The current Werewolf arguments of “I want to make a mag werewolf!” just seem strange since werewolves in the series have always had stamina-based power attacks and you weren’t able to cast spells. But now the idea of being expected to focus stamina for your werewolves (even the concept of having a stam-based armory loadout for your normally mag-based wizard) is meeting a lot of resistance. I could just as well point out the ridiculousness of a stamina-based beam of magic (Fatecarver), or a stamina-based fire breath.

I doubt it will ever change at this point, but personally I wish that they’d remove this “coat based on max resource” idea and make a decision of “does it look like a spell or not?” And if you want to power through with spells, you should be based on mag. A stam character should them focus on melee (or bow) attacks and mobility and blocking.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Welcome to the problem with satire: a lot of people don’t understand it’s satire.

I’m not a giant fan of hybridization, and I think it’s gone overboard. There is a reason to have some skills cost magicka and others cost stam, but this desire to make everyone be able to do anything with any build really makes the two resource bars feel meaningless.

I’ve always been of the opinion that if a skill is magical in nature (i.e. summoning things or casting spells, like most Class skills), then it should cost magicka. A more physical skill (i.e. actual attacks without spell effects, like most non-staff weapon skills) should cost stamina. If you want to be a barbarian, then logically you should not be an archmage and vice versa.

After all, look at the number of people going on about “but but but look how it was done in the previous Elder Scrolls games!!!” above. Why not apply this same logic? Or did I miss the game that let you cast a fireball using your stamina instead of magicka?

The current Werewolf arguments of “I want to make a mag werewolf!” just seem strange since werewolves in the series have always had stamina-based power attacks and you weren’t able to cast spells. But now the idea of being expected to focus stamina for your werewolves (even the concept of having a stam-based armory loadout for your normally mag-based wizard) is meeting a lot of resistance. I could just as well point out the ridiculousness of a stamina-based beam of magic (Fatecarver), or a stamina-based fire breath.

I doubt it will ever change at this point, but personally I wish that they’d remove this “coat based on max resource” idea and make a decision of “does it look like a spell or not?” And if you want to power through with spells, you should be based on mag. A stam character should them focus on melee (or bow) attacks and mobility and blocking.

To be fair, most skills look magical in nature, I can't think of a single class skill that doesn't look like magic, so I rather stay in that grey area for cost than locking all stamina builds behind weapon skills. (Which are also kinda magicky visually, to be fair.)

I think when you're at the point where you can fire a green beam of light and having it cost stamina, hybridization ends up making more sense than not. The major problem with hybridization that I keep seeing being brought up is diversification which I think can be remedied in other ways, making more types of weapons relevant would be a good start.

And Magicka and Stamina are still pretty relevant for the fact you need to build around your sustain, I rather it to be that way than to go: "Oh, you can't run that skill because it costs magicka, get this weaker version that is almost identical visually and costs stamina instead."