Is there any chance at all that we could get a class change token?

FelisCatus · August 4

It feels strange that we can change our character’s sex, alliance, and even race, yet we still cannot change class. Subclassing is a welcome addition and gives us more freedom to mix and match abilities, but it also reinforces the idea that classes are largely collections of skills and spells that can be learned or forgotten.

My main issue is that I created my Dragonknight back in 2015, long before Arcanist existed. I have played that character for years, but I have never particularly enjoyed the Dragonknight class. The recent changes were good, but I would still much rather play my main as an Arcanist.

Subclassing does not fully solve this because class bonuses, class-specific sets, and other restrictions still tie the character to their original class.

I know class change tokens have been requested on the official forums for years, and I would genuinely love to see them added. I have alts, but I do not really use them. They are all levelled and geared, but I have no connection to them like I do with my main. Nearly all of my progress, PvP rank, history, achievements, and attachment are tied to my main character. Starting over on another character would not feel the same.

I simply feel that the character I have invested in for more than a decade would suit a different class far better.

ADarklore · August 4

They've said time and time again... NO. That's why they implemented subclassing, because class change would be too difficult to implement for the outdated system that ESO is built upon.

richo262 · August 4

ADarklore wrote: »

They've said time and time again... NO. That's why they implemented subclassing, because class change would be too difficult to implement for the outdated system that ESO is built upon.

Well, I think they have proven it is actually quite easy now because of subclassing. They need only allow all three trees to be changed, which by extension provides the mastery tree. Then change the class title and allow the character to wear different Infinite Archive gear.

I don't know why they don't just get rid of classes now and have all 'class trees' as something obtained in game with a lore friendly quest. Have the title of your class something that dynamically changes base on what trees you have assigned.

Radiate77 · August 4

richo262 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

They've said time and time again... NO. That's why they implemented subclassing, because class change would be too difficult to implement for the outdated system that ESO is built upon.

Well, I think they have proven it is actually quite easy now because of subclassing. They need only allow all three trees to be changed, which by extension provides the mastery tree. Then change the class title and allow the character to wear different Infinite Archive gear.

I don't know why they don't just get rid of classes now and have all 'class trees' as something obtained in game with a lore friendly quest. Have the title of your class something that dynamically changes base on what trees you have assigned.

So exactly how Subclassing should have been?

How has it ever made sense that we wake up as a Soul Shriven and immediately start acquiring skills with zero inspiration? No Trainer like in previous TES games, inadequate tutorials on ability synergy, ect…

richo262 · August 4

Radiate77 wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

They've said time and time again... NO. That's why they implemented subclassing, because class change would be too difficult to implement for the outdated system that ESO is built upon.

Well, I think they have proven it is actually quite easy now because of subclassing. They need only allow all three trees to be changed, which by extension provides the mastery tree. Then change the class title and allow the character to wear different Infinite Archive gear.

I don't know why they don't just get rid of classes now and have all 'class trees' as something obtained in game with a lore friendly quest. Have the title of your class something that dynamically changes base on what trees you have assigned.

So exactly how Subclassing should have been?

How has it ever made sense that we wake up as a Soul Shriven and immediately start acquiring skills with zero inspiration? No Trainer like in previous TES games, inadequate tutorials on ability synergy, ect…

Clearly you've never woken up in a dungeon shooting cliff racers out of your arms before.

Arfaelwen · August 4

Put it here and you get my immediate upvote: https://elderscrollsonline-feedback.featureupvote.com

LunaFlora · August 4

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8359267#Comment_8359267

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

The devs have said for a while that Class was the one immutable part of a character and that looking into Class change tokens was not on the table. They even referenced that in the reveal for Subclassing as a way for players to customize their characters in lieu of a Class change.

This is correct. It's not to say it could never happen. But there are a TON of moving parts to a class change token we need to get it right without negatively impacting your characters. So it's not on the table right now. Subclassing does not have to touch as many legacy systems as class change token would.

that was the last ZOS update on it, in 2025

agelonestar · August 4

I agree with the OP - and I know this was one of the drivers for Subclassing.

I'd still like to change the base class of one or two of my characters.

s3dulo · August 4

Rather than class change, I would love it if more progress was carried over to alts. Specifically all the skill points and discovered Wayshrines. Those feel like they should be account-wide. It's a 1 time experience that doesn't need to be repeated. I would even go so far as to say certain skill lines should be fully leveled on alts. Like Undaunted, Mages Guild, Psiljic. It wouldn't be a big deal if they weren't so tedious and repetitive to level those. If a skill line level can be purchased in the crown store, it's obvious ZOS is believes there isn't value or entertainment in leveling those skill lines multiple times.

I get why class change tokens aren't a thing but all of these would be a huge QoL improvement.

BretonMage · August 5

Anything that would make it easier to replicate your main would be a good alternative to a class change token. Having tried to replicate my character, the things I struggled with most were undiscovered wayshrines and lost crafting knowledge. I'd also have liked to more easily replicate her appearance in the character creator.

PurpleScroll · August 5

While class change would be nice, I'd prefer they just remove the limits on subclassing, for example you have to have a class tree of your own class slotted - that's one of my biggest gripes of it. I'd have so much more fun with my 20 characters, mixing all 3 to all sorts of builds, if that limit wasn't in place.

jm42 · August 5

richo262 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

They've said time and time again... NO. That's why they implemented subclassing, because class change would be too difficult to implement for the outdated system that ESO is built upon.

Well, I think they have proven it is actually quite easy now because of subclassing. They need only allow all three trees to be changed, which by extension provides the mastery tree. Then change the class title and allow the character to wear different Infinite Archive gear.

I don't know why they don't just get rid of classes now and have all 'class trees' as something obtained in game with a lore friendly quest. Have the title of your class something that dynamically changes base on what trees you have assigned.

because going through the absolute slog of lvling your 6th alt, you are tempted to buy skill lines from crownstore. that is your answer

XVestigeXx · August 5

Yeah that way I can class change all of my other unapproved classes into DK or Sorc which should be the only two real classes that aren't just for role playing. Great idea

starkerealm · August 5

richo262 wrote: »

Well, I think they have proven it is actually quite easy now because of subclassing.

No. Subclassing is a really simple, kludgy thing, under the hood.

It suspends one of your class lines, and enables another. This has been technically possible... at least since Summerset, and probably since launch. (So far as it goes, you can just add skill lines to a character. There's no technical reason, I'm aware of, that requires the removal of skill lines to support subclassing, that was probably a balance decision.)

Character class gets deeper into the database than just your skill lines.

So, in the database, you can make a Dragon Knight with Shadow, Siphon, and Assassination. But, they're still a Dragon Knight, and actually getting the database to update so that it thinks they're a Nightblade is much harder.

SugaComa · August 5

why not just allow us to subclass all three bars to a complete class, lets be honest here - thats what subclassing should have been not the weird mess we got which honestly is harder to implement the a complete class change, and that just fact

Tandor · August 5

LunaFlora wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8359267#Comment_8359267

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

The devs have said for a while that Class was the one immutable part of a character and that looking into Class change tokens was not on the table. They even referenced that in the reveal for Subclassing as a way for players to customize their characters in lieu of a Class change.

This is correct. It's not to say it could never happen. But there are a TON of moving parts to a class change token we need to get it right without negatively impacting your characters. So it's not on the table right now. Subclassing does not have to touch as many legacy systems as class change token would.

that was the last ZOS update on it, in 2025

Since when half the development team has been laid off, making it even more unlikely that something as involved and time consuming as this will ever be implemented.

SugaComa · August 5

The Scriptorium of Lost Arts

A story-driven proposal for earning full class changes on an existing character

Imagine the questline beginning like this.

The Invitation Arrives Quietly, but with Weight

A courier approaches your character in whichever city they frequent most.

There is no dramatic fanfare and no crowd gathering around them. The courier simply steps forward and offers a sealed letter with a subtle, deliberate gesture.

“You are requested at the Hall of your Order.

Your presence is required for a matter of… tradition.”

No explanation.

No hint of what awaits.

Just enough to make the player wonder:

What have I done to deserve this?

The letter bears the symbol of the character's own class.

It directs them to a place they have never previously been invited to enter.

Entering the Native Class Hall

Every class has its own cultural space:

Templars: a sunlit cloister, banners of gold and white, incense drifting from braziers
Sorcerers: a storm-lit observatory, crystals humming with arcane resonance
Nightblades: a shadowed atrium, candles flickering against carved obsidian
Dragonknights: a volcanic forge-hall, embers drifting like fireflies
Wardens: a living grove-sanctum, roots forming natural archways
Necromancers: a cold reliquary, bone-white lanterns illuminating ancient sigils
Arcanists: a spiralling green-ink library, glyphs drifting like fireflies

Your character enters, and the representatives of their class stand waiting.

They speak of the player's accomplishments throughout Tamriel.

The battles they have survived.

The people they have protected.

The knowledge they have gathered.

However, recognition is not the same as mastery.

The head of the order explains that the player has used the abilities of their class for years, but using power and understanding its traditions are not necessarily the same thing.

Before the order will reveal why the player has been summoned, they must prove that they understand each of their class's three disciplines independently.

The Three Trials

The player is given one solo quest for each native class skill line.

During each trial, every unrelated combat skill is temporarily unavailable.

The player may use only abilities belonging to the single skill line currently being studied.

A Templar undertaking the Aedric Spear trial, for example, would not have access to Dawn's Wrath, Restoring Light, weapon skills or guild abilities.

The encounter would be designed specifically around the identity of Aedric Spear.

It should not simply be a normal fight with fewer buttons.

The player may need to:

Use a particular ability to interrupt a ritual
Recognise when to defend rather than attack
Control enemies without killing them
Protect an ally through careful positioning
Maintain a summoned creature or class effect
Respond to mechanics using the intended purpose of that discipline

Each trial becomes a lesson.

The player experiences the strengths, limitations and rhythm of that skill line without relying upon the rest of their build to compensate for it.

At the end of each trial, the player is awarded a unique lore book furnishing containing the teachings of that discipline.

Completing all three trials earns three books representing the complete foundations of the player's native class.

A Place for the Books

The order explains that these volumes are not trophies.

They are fragments of a much older tradition and must be preserved together.

The player is asked to locate a scholar or craftsperson capable of creating a suitable display.

During the investigation, the player encounters the first reference to an old legend:

The Scriptorium of Lost Arts

The Scriptorium is said to have preserved the teachings of every recognised combat tradition.

Some stories describe it as a school.

Others describe it as a library.

A few claim it was neither.

Its location has been lost, and most scholars dismiss it as a symbolic story created to warn against the misuse of knowledge.

The player follows scattered references through libraries, ruins and forgotten records.

Eventually, they find an old volume containing what appears to be the location of the Scriptorium.

They travel there.

Nothing remains.

There is no hidden library and no forgotten school.

Instead, the player finds the remains of an earlier expedition.

Among the abandoned equipment and collapsed stonework are:

A damaged furniture plan
A torn fragment of an unfamiliar map
Evidence that somebody reached the site before them

The furniture plan depicts an ornate display constructed to hold exactly three books.

The player takes the plan to the person waiting at the site: perhaps a scholar whose family has pursued the legend for generations, or a custodian charged with protecting what little remains of its history.

The design is damaged, but it can be restored.

Several unusual components are missing.

The Search for the Materials

The player must explore Tamriel to locate the materials needed to construct the display.

These should not simply be ordinary crafting ingredients.

Each component has a connection to the player's class.

A Templar display might require sun-blessed metal recovered from an abandoned chapel.

A Sorcerer display might need crystal charged during a violent magical storm.

A Warden display might require living wood freely given by an ancient grove.

The player gathers the components, restores the plan and crafts the furnishing.

Once placed inside the player's home, the three class books fit perfectly into it.

When the final volume is inserted, the player hears a faint mechanical click.

A hidden drawer opens beneath the books.

Inside is:

A recess shaped like the emblem of the player's class
A damaged version of that emblem
The map fragment recovered from the expedition

The order recognises the broken emblem but cannot explain why it was hidden within the display.

The player has completed the trials of their own class, yet the mystery has only grown.

Following the Next Clue

The markings on the broken emblem point towards another class tradition.

The player is sent to locate its teachers.

They are not welcomed as an equal.

They enter as a student.

The new order acknowledges the player's reputation but makes it clear that previous accomplishments grant no mastery of their discipline.

The player must begin again.

They undertake three new solo quests, each centred upon one of that class's skill lines.

Only the skill line being studied may be used during each trial.

A Templar studying Sorcery would separately learn:

Dark Magic
Daedric Summoning
Storm Calling

The player receives temporary access to the relevant abilities only within the training quest.

They must learn the timing, movement and purpose of each discipline before completing its trial.

Every completed skill line awards another lore book furnishing.

Once all three disciplines have been mastered, the player receives another display plan.

The materials required for this display are connected to the history and identity of that class, sending the player into another exploration journey.

When the new display is crafted and its three books are placed inside, another secret drawer opens.

It contains:

Another broken emblem
Another piece of the map
A clue leading towards the next class tradition

The pattern is now impossible to ignore.

Someone deliberately separated these teachings.

Someone concealed the emblems.

Someone divided the map and hid each fragment behind proof of class mastery.

Learning Every Tradition

The player continues travelling between the hidden halls of each class.

Every order feels culturally distinct.

The player does not simply unlock abilities from a menu.

They enter the spaces where those traditions are taught, learn their philosophies and experience their mechanics through purpose-built quests.

Each class contributes:

Three solo skill-line trials
Three lore book furnishings
One specialised book display
One broken class emblem
One fragment of the lost map

By the end of this journey, the player has experienced every class in a meaningful but controlled way.

They have not yet changed class.

They have not mixed skill lines.

They have simply demonstrated that they are capable of understanding each complete tradition.

Their home has gradually become a physical archive of everything they have learned.

Displays occupy different walls and rooms.

Each contains three books.

Each contains a hidden drawer.

Each protects another damaged emblem and another fragment of the same mystery.

The Map Becomes Whole

When the final collection is completed, the hidden mechanisms within the displays begin responding to one another.

The drawers open.

The map fragments glow.

When brought together, they form a single route leading to a location absent from modern records.

The completed inscription contains a warning:

“All knowledge may be preserved.

Only the knowledge of the mark you carry may be known.”

The player follows the map to a concealed ruin associated with the lost Scriptorium.

At its entrance stand the Keepers of Knowledge.

Each Keeper embodies one of the class traditions the player has studied.

The player prepares for a battle.

The Keepers do not attack.

They begin to move.

The Dance of Knowledge

This encounter is not a conventional fight.

It is a dance.

Each Keeper performs movements based upon the lessons taught during the earlier skill-line trials.

The player must recognise the sequence and respond correctly.

They may need to:

Enter a protective area at the correct moment
Step away from a growing field of energy
Mirror the movement of a Keeper
Use the ability associated with a particular lesson
Protect one Keeper from another
Recognise the visual language of each class
Complete the sequence without attempting to overpower it

The earlier quests were secretly teaching the player this routine.

Every mechanic has already been introduced.

Every movement has already been practised.

The player is not being tested on damage output.

They are being tested on whether they remember what each tradition taught them.

Matching the first sequence grants passage deeper into the ruin.

Each level introduces a more complex dance involving additional classes.

At the final level, all the Keepers participate.

The player must recognise every tradition and complete the full sequence.

When the dance ends, the Keepers step aside.

The player is allowed to enter the final chamber.

The Final Blueprint

At the centre of the chamber stands an ancient crafting station.

Beside it lies a blueprint and a single piece of unfamiliar material.

The blueprint describes an ornate cabinet.

Nothing in the design explains why it was hidden behind such elaborate trials.

The Keepers offer no answer.

The cabinet can only be crafted at this station, using the material found within the chamber.

The player constructs it.

At first, it appears disappointing.

It is beautiful, but it is still only a cabinet.

Its dark wood is crossed by intricate metallic inlays. Their colours shift with an iridescent glow whenever moonlight enters through the opening in the chamber roof.

The player waits.

Nothing happens.

There is no burst of power.

No secret compartment opens.

No ancient voice speaks.

The player takes the cabinet home.

Something Fits

Back inside the player's home, the cabinet still appears incomplete.

While examining it, the player notices that one of the class-book displays appears to match a recessed section within its frame.

They remove the display from the wall and slide it into the cabinet.

It fits perfectly.

A sound comes from deep inside.

A cog attempts to turn.

Then stops.

The player senses a faint energy.

They retrieve a second display and slide it into another opening.

More clicking.

More movement.

Something inside the cabinet begins to awaken.

The player starts gathering every completed display from wherever they have placed them throughout the house.

One by one, they are fitted into the structure.

The cabinet expands as each piece locks into position.

Hidden panels shift.

Metallic inlays connect.

The colours begin flowing between the displays.

The broken emblems glow within their drawers.

With every addition, the sound of turning gears becomes stronger.

The player inserts the final class display.

The entire structure comes alive.

The broken emblems repair themselves.

The iridescent lines blaze across the cabinet.

The separate displays are revealed to have always been pieces of a single ancient mechanism.

A name appears across its surface for the first time:

THE ARCHIVARIUS

The legends were true.

Whoever restores the Archivarius is granted access to the knowledge preserved within it.

But the warning remains:

Only the knowledge of the mark you carry may be known.

The First Exchange

As the player approaches, energy begins to emanate from their body.

The colour and effects represent their original class.

A Templar might glow with warm golden light.

A Sorcerer might crackle with faint static energy.

A Dragonknight might shed drifting sparks.

The Archivarius recognises the class mark currently carried by the player.

The emblem of that class shines within its open drawer.

The player places the emblem into its resting slot.

The drawer closes.

The light surrounding the player is pulled into the Archivarius.

Their class abilities disappear.

Their class skill lines become hidden.

For a moment, the player is without a class.

They try to pull the drawer open, but the mechanism resists.

Then another compartment moves.

A different emblem falls from the Archivarius and lands upon the floor.

The player picks it up.

The room changes.

Lighting, sound and visual effects erupt around the character, representing the identity of the new class.

Lightning crawls across the walls.

Arcane crystals resonate.

A distant storm answers.

The player pins the restored brooch firmly to their garment.

All three skill lines belonging to the new class reveal themselves.

The player has not equipped a single foreign skill line.

They have not created a hybrid.

They have assumed one complete class identity.

The message appears:

You are now a Sorcerer.

How the Class Change Would Work

The Archivarius would become a functional housing furnishing.

Every class the player has mastered would be represented by a complete emblem stored within it.

However, only one emblem may ever leave the Archivarius.

The emblem currently carried by the player determines their full active class.

The player may equip only one class emblem.
Additional emblems cannot be carried in the inventory.
They cannot be placed in the normal bank.
They remain stored within the Archivarius.
Class changes can therefore happen only inside the player's home.
The player cannot change class in a dungeon, trial, arena, town, Cyrodiil or before a boss encounter.

To change again, the player must return home.

They place their current emblem back into the Archivarius and withdraw another.

The character keeps everything unrelated to class:

Achievements
Quest completion
Skill points
Crafting knowledge
Mount training
Alliance Rank
Wayshrines
Exploration
Guild skill lines
Antiquities
Story progression

Only the three active class skill lines change.

Class sets respond to the emblem currently carried.

A character wearing the Sorcerer emblem is treated as a complete Sorcerer.

Their Templar abilities are hidden, and Templar-specific class effects are inactive until they return home and reclaim that emblem.

This would allow players to experience every full class without abandoning a character into whom they may have invested thousands of hours.

It would also preserve class identity.

The player may learn every tradition.

They may restore every emblem.

They may hold the knowledge of every class within their home.

But when they leave that home, they must commit to one complete class.

Learn Every Tradition.

Carry Only One Mark.

Dagoth_Rac · August 5

I was not here 19 years ago when ZOS began working on ESO. But clearly your choice of class is embedded and tangled into the database and code at a very deep level. My guess is that it is related to the other very noticeable design pain point: the inability to have PC-NA and PC-EU characters available on PTS at same time. They always wipe and start fresh with one or the other. So clearly there are database integrity issues with primary and foreign key conflicts across megaservers. I am guessing something similar is going on with classes. That certain database keys are assumed unique within a class but not across classes. And untangling database key conflicts on legacy systems is some of the hardest stuff in data science.

FelisCatus · August 6

starkerealm wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

Well, I think they have proven it is actually quite easy now because of subclassing.

No. Subclassing is a really simple, kludgy thing, under the hood.

It suspends one of your class lines, and enables another. This has been technically possible... at least since Summerset, and probably since launch. (So far as it goes, you can just add skill lines to a character. There's no technical reason, I'm aware of, that requires the removal of skill lines to support subclassing, that was probably a balance decision.)

Character class gets deeper into the database than just your skill lines.

So, in the database, you can make a Dragon Knight with Shadow, Siphon, and Assassination. But, they're still a Dragon Knight, and actually getting the database to update so that it thinks they're a Nightblade is much harder.

The obvious workaround, then, would be to let players hide all three of their original class skill lines and replace them with three others.

Another option would be to use a system similar to the Werewolf or Vampire transformations. Changing class could transform your available skills and class identity, while the database still records your underlying class as something like Dragonknight.

In practical terms, you would effectively be playing the new class even if the underlying database entry had not changed. The main complication I can see would be class-specific content, particularly the Infinite Archive sets, which would need some way of determining which class should apply. However if the game has sets that can track your vampire stages like Vampire Lord than it may not be a huge issue after all.

Gagoimaliu · August 7

Is there a single MMO out there that lets you change your class? DCUO? I think that one lets you, otherwise, it's not a thing, FFXIV? that's two, out of how many mmos are around.

It's possible in theory, but it all depends on whether ZOS has the knowledge or the manpower needed to do it, since they need so much time to untangle the entire crossplay thing. The other issue of course is that certain people could just change their class to the meta, and then change it back or keep changing it over and over. So either you have to make it like two class changes per character and that's it, or have a cooldown of like a year between changes

Erickson9610 · August 7

Gagoimaliu wrote: »

Is there a single MMO out there that lets you change your class? DCUO? I think that one lets you, otherwise, it's not a thing, FFXIV? that's two, out of how many mmos are around.

It's possible in theory, but it all depends on whether ZOS has the knowledge or the manpower needed to do it, since they need so much time to untangle the entire crossplay thing. The other issue of course is that certain people could just change their class to the meta, and then change it back or keep changing it over and over. So either you have to make it like two class changes per character and that's it, or have a cooldown of like a year between changes

How is it anyone's business how many times a player decides to buy a Class Change Token for their characters?

If a player wants to keep changing their Class — let them. They're spending money which goes towards keeping the servers up. Some players continually change their faction with Alliance Change Tokens each campaign, so there's at least precedent for the impact Class Change Tokens would have.

Remember that anyone can create a new character of the meta Class each patch, for free. The reason we want to be able to change the Class of our characters is because we value the characters themselves — maybe the Class is no longer a good fit for them, or we don't want to lose the progress or name associated with that character.

FelisCatus · August 7

Gagoimaliu wrote: »

Is there a single MMO out there that lets you change your class? DCUO? I think that one lets you, otherwise, it's not a thing, FFXIV? that's two, out of how many mmos are around.

It's possible in theory, but it all depends on whether ZOS has the knowledge or the manpower needed to do it, since they need so much time to untangle the entire crossplay thing. The other issue of course is that certain people could just change their class to the meta, and then change it back or keep changing it over and over. So either you have to make it like two class changes per character and that's it, or have a cooldown of like a year between changes

I don't think "only a couple of MMOs let you change class" is a particularly strong argument against it. How many other games do it doesn't really tell us whether ESO can do it, because every MMO handles character data and classes differently.

The crossplay comparison doesn't really prove much either. Untangling platform/network infrastructure is a completely different technical problem from changing a character's class and resetting or converting the relevant skill lines. Unless we know how ESO stores that data internally, neither of us can really use crossplay development time as evidence that a class change is especially difficult.

And the "people would just swap to the meta" problem already exists. People level alts, subclass, change races, respec skills and CP, swap gear, and move to whatever class is currently strongest. A class-change token would mainly reduce the amount of repetitive leveling required. If ZOS wanted to discourage constant swapping, they could simply attach a cost, a reasonable cooldown, or other restrictions to it. There's no obvious reason it would need to be "two changes per character forever" or a one-year cooldown.

There are legitimate arguments against class changes, such as class identity, possible complications with class-specific progression, and whether the development effort is worth it, but "most MMOs don't do it" and "people might chase the meta" don't really demonstrate that it can't or shouldn't be done.

ZOS_Kevin · August 7

LunaFlora wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8359267#Comment_8359267

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

The devs have said for a while that Class was the one immutable part of a character and that looking into Class change tokens was not on the table. They even referenced that in the reveal for Subclassing as a way for players to customize their characters in lieu of a Class change.

This is correct. It's not to say it could never happen. But there are a TON of moving parts to a class change token we need to get it right without negatively impacting your characters. So it's not on the table right now. Subclassing does not have to touch as many legacy systems as class change token would.

that was the last ZOS update on it, in 2025

Thanks for sharing this. Going to echo that this is even more the case. This system is most likely not going to get touched until class refresh is complete. And even then, the amount of legacy systems that classes are tied into would require a mammoth amount of time to weed through. Not saying it won't happen, but there are bigger things to work on and finish before we can get to this.

Galatherys · August 7

FelisCatus wrote: »

It feels strange that we can change our character’s sex, alliance, and even race, yet we still cannot change class. Subclassing is a welcome addition and gives us more freedom to mix and match abilities, but it also reinforces the idea that classes are largely collections of skills and spells that can be learned or forgotten.

My main issue is that I created my Dragonknight back in 2015, long before Arcanist existed. I have played that character for years, but I have never particularly enjoyed the Dragonknight class. The recent changes were good, but I would still much rather play my main as an Arcanist.

Subclassing does not fully solve this because class bonuses, class-specific sets, and other restrictions still tie the character to their original class.

I know class change tokens have been requested on the official forums for years, and I would genuinely love to see them added. I have alts, but I do not really use them. They are all levelled and geared, but I have no connection to them like I do with my main. Nearly all of my progress, PvP rank, history, achievements, and attachment are tied to my main character. Starting over on another character would not feel the same.

I simply feel that the character I have invested in for more than a decade would suit a different class far better.

There’s a way around the lack of class change ability that I’m doing with my Templar main - Buy an appearance change token then use that to follow your chosen character’s exact specs (build, facial structure, voice etc) then take pics of these details to use as references to create a ‘new’ character that’s identical to the original in every way except the core class.

So character wise, he’s exactly the same guy…He just can’t seem to remember where most of the wayshrines are and is somehow a far less adept rider lol

Erickson9610 · August 7

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8359267#Comment_8359267

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

The devs have said for a while that Class was the one immutable part of a character and that looking into Class change tokens was not on the table. They even referenced that in the reveal for Subclassing as a way for players to customize their characters in lieu of a Class change.

This is correct. It's not to say it could never happen. But there are a TON of moving parts to a class change token we need to get it right without negatively impacting your characters. So it's not on the table right now. Subclassing does not have to touch as many legacy systems as class change token would.

that was the last ZOS update on it, in 2025

Thanks for sharing this. Going to echo that this is even more the case. This system is most likely not going to get touched until class refresh is complete. And even then, the amount of legacy systems that classes are tied into would require a mammoth amount of time to weed through. Not saying it won't happen, but there are bigger things to work on and finish before we can get to this.

I'm glad to hear there's a chance it'll happen some day! I'd love to see these bigger systems and projects (such as Crossplay and the Class Refresh) finished first, but I'd absolutely appreciate a Class Change Token if it's ever fully realized!

TX12001rwb17_ESO · August 8

If you can change two skill lines with subclassing why is it that changing one more is somehow impossible? that is all a class change would be, why does it matter what the database says?

Erickson9610 · August 8

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

If you can change two skill lines with subclassing why is it that changing one more is somehow impossible? that is all a class change would be, why does it matter what the database says?

I don't know the full extent of how deeply your Class affects legacy systems, but I can list a few things that would not be changed even if you could swap your 3 Class lines for 3 of the same other Class:

When you defeat an enemy player in Cyrodiil, their base Class determines if they progress your "Kill x <Class>s" quest, as well as related Achievements which award dyes.
Certain leaderboards in ranked content have the option to sort by base Class. The Infinite Archive's leaderboard no longer does this, though.
Your base Class determines which Class Sets you can use, as well as which associated styles you can wear. Notably, you can't equip these styles on Companions even if they're of the appropriate Class, likely because of the same restriction.
Your base Class determines how characters in story content respond to you. One great example of this is Zerith-var's introductory quest, in which you have unique dialogue options if your base Class is Necromancer. I know there's an encounter in West Weald which is similar to that, too.
Swapping your three Class lines for the same other Class would not give you the Class Mastery line for that other Class. This is because the game hides the Class Mastery line (determined by your base Class) if you are Subclassing at all, which you would be doing to replace your three base Class skill lines.
The effect of Scribing's "Class Flourish" script is determined by your base Class and the particular Grimoire it is scribed to.

It's certainly not impossible to implement Class Change Tokens, but it would take a lot of effort to make that change and then to bug test all of the systems across the entire game to ensure nothing breaks.

It doesn't help that it's so low priority right now, but we've seen requests for this for years, even after Subclassing was introduced, so it's only a matter of time.

Personofsecrets · August 8

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8359267#Comment_8359267

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

The devs have said for a while that Class was the one immutable part of a character and that looking into Class change tokens was not on the table. They even referenced that in the reveal for Subclassing as a way for players to customize their characters in lieu of a Class change.

This is correct. It's not to say it could never happen. But there are a TON of moving parts to a class change token we need to get it right without negatively impacting your characters. So it's not on the table right now. Subclassing does not have to touch as many legacy systems as class change token would.

that was the last ZOS update on it, in 2025

Thanks for sharing this. Going to echo that this is even more the case. This system is most likely not going to get touched until class refresh is complete. And even then, the amount of legacy systems that classes are tied into would require a mammoth amount of time to weed through. Not saying it won't happen, but there are bigger things to work on and finish before we can get to this.

I guess that's good that it's maybe a possibility. In my case, I feel like the only class that I've played in a deacde was so upended by the class refresh that I'm not even sure if it's great for the roll that I typically play.

The class refreshes shouldn't be so identity altering. They shouldn't outright get rid of parts of the classes, their playstyles, and themes that have existed for a decade. Since I feel that happened with DK, I want the option to be something else. It's not like the only character that I've played exists any longer, so there wouldn't be an attachment barrier to changing what I do except for not wanting to put thousands of the repeat hours into making the shift.

I don't even fully understand the need for a "refresh" like what was foisted on DK. Simple balance changes could have gone a long way. Now the class skills look poor too. IDGI. Is everyone going to have several non-obvious skills that have random bursts of light or is it just DK that get's that good fortune? Give back the reflect - that form of identity was bad to the bone. Give DK a cleanse "through fire." How was that not obvious for a stand your ground character? I could complain all day about the DK, but will stop here.

FelisCatus · August 8

Galatherys wrote: »

FelisCatus wrote: »

It feels strange that we can change our character’s sex, alliance, and even race, yet we still cannot change class. Subclassing is a welcome addition and gives us more freedom to mix and match abilities, but it also reinforces the idea that classes are largely collections of skills and spells that can be learned or forgotten.

My main issue is that I created my Dragonknight back in 2015, long before Arcanist existed. I have played that character for years, but I have never particularly enjoyed the Dragonknight class. The recent changes were good, but I would still much rather play my main as an Arcanist.

Subclassing does not fully solve this because class bonuses, class-specific sets, and other restrictions still tie the character to their original class.

I know class change tokens have been requested on the official forums for years, and I would genuinely love to see them added. I have alts, but I do not really use them. They are all levelled and geared, but I have no connection to them like I do with my main. Nearly all of my progress, PvP rank, history, achievements, and attachment are tied to my main character. Starting over on another character would not feel the same.

I simply feel that the character I have invested in for more than a decade would suit a different class far better.

There’s a way around the lack of class change ability that I’m doing with my Templar main - Buy an appearance change token then use that to follow your chosen character’s exact specs (build, facial structure, voice etc) then take pics of these details to use as references to create a ‘new’ character that’s identical to the original in every way except the core class.

So character wise, he’s exactly the same guy…He just can’t seem to remember where most of the wayshrines are and is somehow a far less adept rider lol

That works if the only thing you care about is the character's appearance, but it doesn't really solve the issue I was talking about.

My attachment to my main isn't just his face, name or general character concept. It's the fact that over a decade of progression is attached to that specific character - PvP ranks, achievements, quest history, exploration, skill progress, motifs, recipes, crafting knowledge, mount training, antiquities progress and all the other little bits of character history that accumulate over thousands of hours.

I could recreate him visually as an Arcanist and pretend he's the same character, but mechanically he wouldn't be. I'd effectively be starting a new character wearing my old character's skin.

That's exactly why I'd like a class change token. I don't want a different character who looks identical to my main. I want my actual main, with all of his history intact, to be able to change class.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8359267#Comment_8359267

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

The devs have said for a while that Class was the one immutable part of a character and that looking into Class change tokens was not on the table. They even referenced that in the reveal for Subclassing as a way for players to customize their characters in lieu of a Class change.

This is correct. It's not to say it could never happen. But there are a TON of moving parts to a class change token we need to get it right without negatively impacting your characters. So it's not on the table right now. Subclassing does not have to touch as many legacy systems as class change token would.

that was the last ZOS update on it, in 2025

Thanks for sharing this. Going to echo that this is even more the case. This system is most likely not going to get touched until class refresh is complete. And even then, the amount of legacy systems that classes are tied into would require a mammoth amount of time to weed through. Not saying it won't happen, but there are bigger things to work on and finish before we can get to this.

I guess that's good that it's maybe a possibility. In my case, I feel like the only class that I've played in a deacde was so upended by the class refresh that I'm not even sure if it's great for the roll that I typically play.

The class refreshes shouldn't be so identity altering. They shouldn't outright get rid of parts of the classes, their playstyles, and themes that have existed for a decade. Since I feel that happened with DK, I want the option to be something else. It's not like the only character that I've played exists any longer, so there wouldn't be an attachment barrier to changing what I do except for not wanting to put thousands of the repeat hours into making the shift.

I don't even fully understand the need for a "refresh" like what was foisted on DK. Simple balance changes could have gone a long way. Now the class skills look poor too. IDGI. Is everyone going to have several non-obvious skills that have random bursts of light or is it just DK that get's that good fortune? Give back the reflect - that form of identity was bad to the bone. Give DK a cleanse "through fire." How was that not obvious for a stand your ground character? I could complain all day about the DK, but will stop here.

I actually disagree pretty strongly on the DK refresh. Of all the original classes, I think Dragonknight was one of the classes that most needed a refresh. It was designed around how ESO played over a decade ago, and parts of its kit had become increasingly dated compared with newer classes like Arcanist and even the later redesign philosophy used elsewhere.

The original DK also had a slightly confused identity. Fire, earth and draconic abilities all make perfect sense together. Then you had poison increasingly bolted onto the stamina side of the class, which never really felt particularly "Dragonknight" to me. Poison/noxious nature magic would make far more thematic sense on Warden, while Warden having such a large ice identity has always struck me as similarly strange.

Ideally, I'd rather the classes had stronger and more immediately recognisable themes:

Dragonknight: fire, magma, earth, draconic power - heavy, brutal, close-range elemental warfare.
Warden: nature, animals, plants, poison and natural toxins - essentially ESO's druid/ranger archetype.
Sorcerer: lightning, storms, Daedric summoning and raw arcane magic.
Nightblade: shadow, blood, assassination, siphoning and illusion.
Templar: solar/light magic, restoration and martial holy-magic themes.
Necromancer: death, corpses, spirits, decay and cold/grave magic. If somebody needs a stronger frost identity, cold fits death considerably better than it fits a nature class.
Arcanist: Apocrypha, forbidden knowledge, runes, tentacles and eldritch magic.

I do think they should add more classes.

Obviously there can be overlap, but I think every class should have a strong central fantasy rather than accumulating unrelated damage types simply because the game needed a stamina morph somewhere.

That's why I prefer the refreshed DK. To me it feels more like a Dragonknight, not less. Fire, stone, chains, magma, wings and draconic abilities are an extremely coherent identity, and bringing the mechanics and visuals closer to how modern ESO classes are designed was overdue.

I can understand somebody preferring individual old abilities, and obviously balance or particular skill changes can be criticised, but I don't agree that preserving a 2014-era design simply because it existed for a decade is necessarily preserving the class's identity. In some respects, the old DK had accumulated mechanics that actually diluted that identity.

If anything, I'd like ZOS to go further with this philosophy across the other older classes - modernise the gameplay while making each class more thematically distinct, rather than changing things simply for the sake of changing them.

And on the "RIP Dragonknight 2014-2025" point, I just don't see it that way. The Dragonknight is still there. I'd argue the refresh stripped away some of the cruft it accumulated over the years and brought it closer to what a class called Dragonknight should actually be.

The second one is deliberately a bit more substantive because their post invites an actual argument rather than just a correction.

Personofsecrets · 12:51AM

FelisCatus wrote: »

Galatherys wrote: »

FelisCatus wrote: »

It feels strange that we can change our character’s sex, alliance, and even race, yet we still cannot change class. Subclassing is a welcome addition and gives us more freedom to mix and match abilities, but it also reinforces the idea that classes are largely collections of skills and spells that can be learned or forgotten.

My main issue is that I created my Dragonknight back in 2015, long before Arcanist existed. I have played that character for years, but I have never particularly enjoyed the Dragonknight class. The recent changes were good, but I would still much rather play my main as an Arcanist.

Subclassing does not fully solve this because class bonuses, class-specific sets, and other restrictions still tie the character to their original class.

I know class change tokens have been requested on the official forums for years, and I would genuinely love to see them added. I have alts, but I do not really use them. They are all levelled and geared, but I have no connection to them like I do with my main. Nearly all of my progress, PvP rank, history, achievements, and attachment are tied to my main character. Starting over on another character would not feel the same.

I simply feel that the character I have invested in for more than a decade would suit a different class far better.

There’s a way around the lack of class change ability that I’m doing with my Templar main - Buy an appearance change token then use that to follow your chosen character’s exact specs (build, facial structure, voice etc) then take pics of these details to use as references to create a ‘new’ character that’s identical to the original in every way except the core class.

So character wise, he’s exactly the same guy…He just can’t seem to remember where most of the wayshrines are and is somehow a far less adept rider lol

That works if the only thing you care about is the character's appearance, but it doesn't really solve the issue I was talking about.

My attachment to my main isn't just his face, name or general character concept. It's the fact that over a decade of progression is attached to that specific character - PvP ranks, achievements, quest history, exploration, skill progress, motifs, recipes, crafting knowledge, mount training, antiquities progress and all the other little bits of character history that accumulate over thousands of hours.

I could recreate him visually as an Arcanist and pretend he's the same character, but mechanically he wouldn't be. I'd effectively be starting a new character wearing my old character's skin.

That's exactly why I'd like a class change token. I don't want a different character who looks identical to my main. I want my actual main, with all of his history intact, to be able to change class.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8359267#Comment_8359267

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

The devs have said for a while that Class was the one immutable part of a character and that looking into Class change tokens was not on the table. They even referenced that in the reveal for Subclassing as a way for players to customize their characters in lieu of a Class change.

This is correct. It's not to say it could never happen. But there are a TON of moving parts to a class change token we need to get it right without negatively impacting your characters. So it's not on the table right now. Subclassing does not have to touch as many legacy systems as class change token would.

that was the last ZOS update on it, in 2025

Thanks for sharing this. Going to echo that this is even more the case. This system is most likely not going to get touched until class refresh is complete. And even then, the amount of legacy systems that classes are tied into would require a mammoth amount of time to weed through. Not saying it won't happen, but there are bigger things to work on and finish before we can get to this.

I guess that's good that it's maybe a possibility. In my case, I feel like the only class that I've played in a deacde was so upended by the class refresh that I'm not even sure if it's great for the roll that I typically play.

The class refreshes shouldn't be so identity altering. They shouldn't outright get rid of parts of the classes, their playstyles, and themes that have existed for a decade. Since I feel that happened with DK, I want the option to be something else. It's not like the only character that I've played exists any longer, so there wouldn't be an attachment barrier to changing what I do except for not wanting to put thousands of the repeat hours into making the shift.

I don't even fully understand the need for a "refresh" like what was foisted on DK. Simple balance changes could have gone a long way. Now the class skills look poor too. IDGI. Is everyone going to have several non-obvious skills that have random bursts of light or is it just DK that get's that good fortune? Give back the reflect - that form of identity was bad to the bone. Give DK a cleanse "through fire." How was that not obvious for a stand your ground character? I could complain all day about the DK, but will stop here.

I actually disagree pretty strongly on the DK refresh. Of all the original classes, I think Dragonknight was one of the classes that most needed a refresh. It was designed around how ESO played over a decade ago, and parts of its kit had become increasingly dated compared with newer classes like Arcanist and even the later redesign philosophy used elsewhere.

The original DK also had a slightly confused identity. Fire, earth and draconic abilities all make perfect sense together. Then you had poison increasingly bolted onto the stamina side of the class, which never really felt particularly "Dragonknight" to me. Poison/noxious nature magic would make far more thematic sense on Warden, while Warden having such a large ice identity has always struck me as similarly strange.

Ideally, I'd rather the classes had stronger and more immediately recognisable themes:

Dragonknight: fire, magma, earth, draconic power - heavy, brutal, close-range elemental warfare.
Warden: nature, animals, plants, poison and natural toxins - essentially ESO's druid/ranger archetype.
Sorcerer: lightning, storms, Daedric summoning and raw arcane magic.
Nightblade: shadow, blood, assassination, siphoning and illusion.
Templar: solar/light magic, restoration and martial holy-magic themes.
Necromancer: death, corpses, spirits, decay and cold/grave magic. If somebody needs a stronger frost identity, cold fits death considerably better than it fits a nature class.
Arcanist: Apocrypha, forbidden knowledge, runes, tentacles and eldritch magic.

I do think they should add more classes.

Obviously there can be overlap, but I think every class should have a strong central fantasy rather than accumulating unrelated damage types simply because the game needed a stamina morph somewhere.

That's why I prefer the refreshed DK. To me it feels more like a Dragonknight, not less. Fire, stone, chains, magma, wings and draconic abilities are an extremely coherent identity, and bringing the mechanics and visuals closer to how modern ESO classes are designed was overdue.

I can understand somebody preferring individual old abilities, and obviously balance or particular skill changes can be criticised, but I don't agree that preserving a 2014-era design simply because it existed for a decade is necessarily preserving the class's identity. In some respects, the old DK had accumulated mechanics that actually diluted that identity.

If anything, I'd like ZOS to go further with this philosophy across the other older classes - modernise the gameplay while making each class more thematically distinct, rather than changing things simply for the sake of changing them.

And on the "RIP Dragonknight 2014-2025" point, I just don't see it that way. The Dragonknight is still there. I'd argue the refresh stripped away some of the cruft it accumulated over the years and brought it closer to what a class called Dragonknight should actually be.

The second one is deliberately a bit more substantive because their post invites an actual argument rather than just a correction.

DK is definitely a relic of the past. I'll just give one example, but there are many. Dynamic ultimate generation change. DK sustain being based off of using it's ultimate means that the very old ultimate generation change already began to chip away at DK power and identity. - Status agreed -

DK definitely has an identity issue. The examples include a number of skills that have radically changed over time, sometimes multiple times; Flames of Oblivion, Ash Cloud, Inhale, Reflective Scales, Stonefist, Whip and probably other skills, if I remember correctly, have all been pretty radically changed. The only additional comments that I think are useful here are that there is nothing inherent about the idea "Dragon Knight" that means "earth" elemental effects must be involved. Earth effects aren't even a real status in the game. The refresh also introduced radical changes. The maintaining of earth themed abilities while killing off poison effects which were probably meant to be part of that Earth magic idea as well as the huge changes done by the refresh are just a continuation of the classes identity crisis. So I think that we have another - Status agreed - I just have this additional observation.

That's good that you like the new DK. I dislike the DK for a few reasons. Thematically, I don't really care a whole lot. A theme only get's one so far. Gameplay wise, the DK is totally different. The primary way that I enjoyed DK was tanking in PVE. The way that I tanked enjoyed the use of Igneous shield to generate alot of value. That's just gone now. Instead the class is shoe horned into using a skill with a 4 second cool down, core of flame. I don't like that change. Core of flame, though great for resources over all is a more greedy skill generally speaking. So I don't feel good casting the ability and I really don't feel good needing the ability. I can say similar things for PvP which I dabble in. The most valuable thing to do is play as greedy as possible with resources and spame Core of Flame. I don't like the maintenance required by the skill. Additionally, that and the Incinerate proc have shifted DK to being a burst/combo class. I don't even have room on my bar for Fiery Breath or Burning Embers anymore. I've loved dotting up players for years, but doing so has become more and more ineffective over time as players have great cleanses or shields that don't care about the dots. Now DK is a "stand your ground" class (because it has no escape mechanism) that relies on... burst combo? I dislike having to setup this combo all of the time. Not to mention that what I point out here is meant to show yet another bad point for "identity."

So I'm not sure that we have a point of agreement on those comments, but I don't think that means there is a point of disagreement. We just have different experiences and maybe care about different things. I'll just like to comment that what is identity if a class can just be totally morphed one day by some game designer. Well, identity is nothing at that point in my opinion. It's at least not something built upon the lived experiences of all players. And if said designer can rebuild a class in a way that excludes long time users, then I don't think identity really matters to them. Sums in an Excel sheet and ticking off boxes from some meeting notes are what is being focussed on at that point.

Usureki · 6:00AM

ADarklore wrote: »

They've said time and time again... NO. That's why they implemented subclassing, because class change would be too difficult to implement for the outdated system that ESO is built upon.

As a guy involved in programming I always find this kind of reasoning funny. If ESO codebase is in such a miserable state that implementing class change would be that difficult, then it is a reason itself to be refactored and remedied. Programming is not magic, there are no mystical laws making stuff impossible, it's quite the opposite.