ADarklore wrote: »

They've said time and time again... NO. That's why they implemented subclassing, because class change would be too difficult to implement for the outdated system that ESO is built upon.

Well, I think they have proven it is actually quite easy now because of subclassing. They need only allow all three trees to be changed, which by extension provides the mastery tree. Then change the class title and allow the character to wear different Infinite Archive gear.

I don't know why they don't just get rid of classes now and have all 'class trees' as something obtained in game with a lore friendly quest. Have the title of your class something that dynamically changes base on what trees you have assigned.

Radiate77 wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

They've said time and time again... NO. That's why they implemented subclassing, because class change would be too difficult to implement for the outdated system that ESO is built upon.

Well, I think they have proven it is actually quite easy now because of subclassing. They need only allow all three trees to be changed, which by extension provides the mastery tree. Then change the class title and allow the character to wear different Infinite Archive gear.

I don't know why they don't just get rid of classes now and have all 'class trees' as something obtained in game with a lore friendly quest. Have the title of your class something that dynamically changes base on what trees you have assigned.

So exactly how Subclassing should have been?

How has it ever made sense that we wake up as a Soul Shriven and immediately start acquiring skills with zero inspiration? No Trainer like in previous TES games, inadequate tutorials on ability synergy, ect…

Clearly you've never woken up in a dungeon shooting cliff racers out of your arms before.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8359267#Comment_8359267

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

The devs have said for a while that Class was the one immutable part of a character and that looking into Class change tokens was not on the table. They even referenced that in the reveal for Subclassing as a way for players to customize their characters in lieu of a Class change.

This is correct. It's not to say it could never happen. But there are a TON of moving parts to a class change token we need to get it right without negatively impacting your characters. So it's not on the table right now. Subclassing does not have to touch as many legacy systems as class change token would.

that was the last ZOS update on it, in 2025

Rather than class change, I would love it if more progress was carried over to alts. Specifically all the skill points and discovered Wayshrines. Those feel like they should be account-wide. It's a 1 time experience that doesn't need to be repeated. I would even go so far as to say certain skill lines should be fully leveled on alts. Like Undaunted, Mages Guild, Psiljic. It wouldn't be a big deal if they weren't so tedious and repetitive to level those. If a skill line level can be purchased in the crown store, it's obvious ZOS is believes there isn't value or entertainment in leveling those skill lines multiple times.

I get why class change tokens aren't a thing but all of these would be a huge QoL improvement.

While class change would be nice, I'd prefer they just remove the limits on subclassing, for example you have to have a class tree of your own class slotted - that's one of my biggest gripes of it. I'd have so much more fun with my 20 characters, mixing all 3 to all sorts of builds, if that limit wasn't in place.

Yeah that way I can class change all of my other unapproved classes into DK or Sorc which should be the only two real classes that aren't just for role playing. Great idea

why not just allow us to subclass all three bars to a complete class, lets be honest here - thats what subclassing should have been not the weird mess we got which honestly is harder to implement the a complete class change, and that just fact

Imagine the questline beginning like this.

A courier approaches your character in whichever city they frequent most.

There is no dramatic fanfare and no crowd gathering around them. The courier simply steps forward and offers a sealed letter with a subtle, deliberate gesture.

No explanation.

No hint of what awaits.

Just enough to make the player wonder:

The letter bears the symbol of the character's own class.

It directs them to a place they have never previously been invited to enter.

Every class has its own cultural space:

• Templars: a sunlit cloister, banners of gold and white, incense drifting from braziers
• Sorcerers: a storm-lit observatory, crystals humming with arcane resonance
• Nightblades: a shadowed atrium, candles flickering against carved obsidian
• Dragonknights: a volcanic forge-hall, embers drifting like fireflies
• Wardens: a living grove-sanctum, roots forming natural archways
• Necromancers: a cold reliquary, bone-white lanterns illuminating ancient sigils
• Arcanists: a spiralling green-ink library, glyphs drifting like fireflies

Your character enters, and the representatives of their class stand waiting.

They speak of the player's accomplishments throughout Tamriel.

The battles they have survived.

The people they have protected.

The knowledge they have gathered.

However, recognition is not the same as mastery.

The head of the order explains that the player has used the abilities of their class for years, but using power and understanding its traditions are not necessarily the same thing.

Before the order will reveal why the player has been summoned, they must prove that they understand each of their class's three disciplines independently.

The player is given one solo quest for each native class skill line.

During each trial, every unrelated combat skill is temporarily unavailable.

The player may use only abilities belonging to the single skill line currently being studied.

A Templar undertaking the Aedric Spear trial, for example, would not have access to Dawn's Wrath, Restoring Light, weapon skills or guild abilities.

The encounter would be designed specifically around the identity of Aedric Spear.

It should not simply be a normal fight with fewer buttons.

The player may need to:

• Use a particular ability to interrupt a ritual
• Recognise when to defend rather than attack
• Control enemies without killing them
• Protect an ally through careful positioning
• Maintain a summoned creature or class effect
• Respond to mechanics using the intended purpose of that discipline

Each trial becomes a lesson.

The player experiences the strengths, limitations and rhythm of that skill line without relying upon the rest of their build to compensate for it.

At the end of each trial, the player is awarded a unique lore book furnishing containing the teachings of that discipline.

Completing all three trials earns three books representing the complete foundations of the player's native class.

The order explains that these volumes are not trophies.

They are fragments of a much older tradition and must be preserved together.

The player is asked to locate a scholar or craftsperson capable of creating a suitable display.

During the investigation, the player encounters the first reference to an old legend:

The Scriptorium is said to have preserved the teachings of every recognised combat tradition.

Some stories describe it as a school.

Others describe it as a library.

A few claim it was neither.

Its location has been lost, and most scholars dismiss it as a symbolic story created to warn against the misuse of knowledge.

The player follows scattered references through libraries, ruins and forgotten records.

Eventually, they find an old volume containing what appears to be the location of the Scriptorium.

They travel there.

Nothing remains.

There is no hidden library and no forgotten school.

Instead, the player finds the remains of an earlier expedition.

Among the abandoned equipment and collapsed stonework are:

• A damaged furniture plan
• A torn fragment of an unfamiliar map
• Evidence that somebody reached the site before them

The furniture plan depicts an ornate display constructed to hold exactly three books.

The player takes the plan to the person waiting at the site: perhaps a scholar whose family has pursued the legend for generations, or a custodian charged with protecting what little remains of its history.

The design is damaged, but it can be restored.

Several unusual components are missing.

The player must explore Tamriel to locate the materials needed to construct the display.

These should not simply be ordinary crafting ingredients.

Each component has a connection to the player's class.

A Templar display might require sun-blessed metal recovered from an abandoned chapel.

A Sorcerer display might need crystal charged during a violent magical storm.

A Warden display might require living wood freely given by an ancient grove.

The player gathers the components, restores the plan and crafts the furnishing.

Once placed inside the player's home, the three class books fit perfectly into it.

When the final volume is inserted, the player hears a faint mechanical click.

A hidden drawer opens beneath the books.

Inside is:

• A recess shaped like the emblem of the player's class
• A damaged version of that emblem
• The map fragment recovered from the expedition

The order recognises the broken emblem but cannot explain why it was hidden within the display.

The player has completed the trials of their own class, yet the mystery has only grown.

The markings on the broken emblem point towards another class tradition.

The player is sent to locate its teachers.

They are not welcomed as an equal.

They enter as a student.

The new order acknowledges the player's reputation but makes it clear that previous accomplishments grant no mastery of their discipline.

The player must begin again.

They undertake three new solo quests, each centred upon one of that class's skill lines.

Only the skill line being studied may be used during each trial.

A Templar studying Sorcery would separately learn:

• Dark Magic
• Daedric Summoning
• Storm Calling

The player receives temporary access to the relevant abilities only within the training quest.

They must learn the timing, movement and purpose of each discipline before completing its trial.

Every completed skill line awards another lore book furnishing.

Once all three disciplines have been mastered, the player receives another display plan.

The materials required for this display are connected to the history and identity of that class, sending the player into another exploration journey.

When the new display is crafted and its three books are placed inside, another secret drawer opens.

It contains:

• Another broken emblem
• Another piece of the map
• A clue leading towards the next class tradition

The pattern is now impossible to ignore.

Someone deliberately separated these teachings.

Someone concealed the emblems.

Someone divided the map and hid each fragment behind proof of class mastery.

The player continues travelling between the hidden halls of each class.

Every order feels culturally distinct.

The player does not simply unlock abilities from a menu.

They enter the spaces where those traditions are taught, learn their philosophies and experience their mechanics through purpose-built quests.

Each class contributes:

• Three solo skill-line trials
• Three lore book furnishings
• One specialised book display
• One broken class emblem
• One fragment of the lost map

By the end of this journey, the player has experienced every class in a meaningful but controlled way.

They have not yet changed class.

They have not mixed skill lines.

They have simply demonstrated that they are capable of understanding each complete tradition.

Their home has gradually become a physical archive of everything they have learned.

Displays occupy different walls and rooms.

Each contains three books.

Each contains a hidden drawer.

Each protects another damaged emblem and another fragment of the same mystery.

When the final collection is completed, the hidden mechanisms within the displays begin responding to one another.

The drawers open.

The map fragments glow.

When brought together, they form a single route leading to a location absent from modern records.

The completed inscription contains a warning:

The player follows the map to a concealed ruin associated with the lost Scriptorium.

At its entrance stand the Keepers of Knowledge.

Each Keeper embodies one of the class traditions the player has studied.

The player prepares for a battle.

The Keepers do not attack.

They begin to move.

This encounter is not a conventional fight.

It is a dance.

Each Keeper performs movements based upon the lessons taught during the earlier skill-line trials.

The player must recognise the sequence and respond correctly.

They may need to:

• Enter a protective area at the correct moment
• Step away from a growing field of energy
• Mirror the movement of a Keeper
• Use the ability associated with a particular lesson
• Protect one Keeper from another
• Recognise the visual language of each class
• Complete the sequence without attempting to overpower it

The earlier quests were secretly teaching the player this routine.

Every mechanic has already been introduced.

Every movement has already been practised.

The player is not being tested on damage output.

They are being tested on whether they remember what each tradition taught them.

Matching the first sequence grants passage deeper into the ruin.

Each level introduces a more complex dance involving additional classes.

At the final level, all the Keepers participate.

The player must recognise every tradition and complete the full sequence.

When the dance ends, the Keepers step aside.

The player is allowed to enter the final chamber.

At the centre of the chamber stands an ancient crafting station.

Beside it lies a blueprint and a single piece of unfamiliar material.

The blueprint describes an ornate cabinet.

Nothing in the design explains why it was hidden behind such elaborate trials.

The Keepers offer no answer.

The cabinet can only be crafted at this station, using the material found within the chamber.

The player constructs it.

At first, it appears disappointing.

It is beautiful, but it is still only a cabinet.

Its dark wood is crossed by intricate metallic inlays. Their colours shift with an iridescent glow whenever moonlight enters through the opening in the chamber roof.

The player waits.

Nothing happens.

There is no burst of power.

No secret compartment opens.

No ancient voice speaks.

The player takes the cabinet home.

Back inside the player's home, the cabinet still appears incomplete.

While examining it, the player notices that one of the class-book displays appears to match a recessed section within its frame.

They remove the display from the wall and slide it into the cabinet.

It fits perfectly.

A sound comes from deep inside.

A cog attempts to turn.

Then stops.

The player senses a faint energy.

They retrieve a second display and slide it into another opening.

More clicking.

More movement.

Something inside the cabinet begins to awaken.

The player starts gathering every completed display from wherever they have placed them throughout the house.

One by one, they are fitted into the structure.

The cabinet expands as each piece locks into position.

Hidden panels shift.

Metallic inlays connect.

The colours begin flowing between the displays.

The broken emblems glow within their drawers.

With every addition, the sound of turning gears becomes stronger.

The player inserts the final class display.

The entire structure comes alive.

The broken emblems repair themselves.

The iridescent lines blaze across the cabinet.

The separate displays are revealed to have always been pieces of a single ancient mechanism.

A name appears across its surface for the first time:

The legends were true.

Whoever restores the Archivarius is granted access to the knowledge preserved within it.

But the warning remains:

As the player approaches, energy begins to emanate from their body.

The colour and effects represent their original class.

A Templar might glow with warm golden light.

A Sorcerer might crackle with faint static energy.

A Dragonknight might shed drifting sparks.

The Archivarius recognises the class mark currently carried by the player.

The emblem of that class shines within its open drawer.

The player places the emblem into its resting slot.

The drawer closes.

The light surrounding the player is pulled into the Archivarius.

Their class abilities disappear.

Their class skill lines become hidden.

For a moment, the player is without a class.

They try to pull the drawer open, but the mechanism resists.

Then another compartment moves.

A different emblem falls from the Archivarius and lands upon the floor.

The player picks it up.

The room changes.

Lighting, sound and visual effects erupt around the character, representing the identity of the new class.

Lightning crawls across the walls.

Arcane crystals resonate.

A distant storm answers.

The player pins the restored brooch firmly to their garment.

All three skill lines belonging to the new class reveal themselves.

The player has not equipped a single foreign skill line.

They have not created a hybrid.

They have assumed one complete class identity.

The message appears:

The Archivarius would become a functional housing furnishing.

Every class the player has mastered would be represented by a complete emblem stored within it.

However, only one emblem may ever leave the Archivarius.

The emblem currently carried by the player determines their full active class.

• The player may equip only one class emblem.
• Additional emblems cannot be carried in the inventory.
• They cannot be placed in the normal bank.
• They remain stored within the Archivarius.
• Class changes can therefore happen only inside the player's home.
• The player cannot change class in a dungeon, trial, arena, town, Cyrodiil or before a boss encounter.

To change again, the player must return home.

They place their current emblem back into the Archivarius and withdraw another.

The character keeps everything unrelated to class:

• Achievements
• Quest completion
• Skill points
• Crafting knowledge
• Mount training
• Alliance Rank
• Wayshrines
• Exploration
• Guild skill lines
• Antiquities
• Story progression

Only the three active class skill lines change.

Class sets respond to the emblem currently carried.

A character wearing the Sorcerer emblem is treated as a complete Sorcerer.

Their Templar abilities are hidden, and Templar-specific class effects are inactive until they return home and reclaim that emblem.

This would allow players to experience every full class without abandoning a character into whom they may have invested thousands of hours.

It would also preserve class identity.

The player may learn every tradition.

They may restore every emblem.

They may hold the knowledge of every class within their home.

But when they leave that home, they must commit to one complete class.

starkerealm wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

Well, I think they have proven it is actually quite easy now because of subclassing.

No. Subclassing is a really simple, kludgy thing, under the hood.

It suspends one of your class lines, and enables another. This has been technically possible... at least since Summerset, and probably since launch. (So far as it goes, you can just add skill lines to a character. There's no technical reason, I'm aware of, that requires the removal of skill lines to support subclassing, that was probably a balance decision.)

Character class gets deeper into the database than just your skill lines.

So, in the database, you can make a Dragon Knight with Shadow, Siphon, and Assassination. But, they're still a Dragon Knight, and actually getting the database to update so that it thinks they're a Nightblade is much harder.

The obvious workaround, then, would be to let players hide all three of their original class skill lines and replace them with three others.

Another option would be to use a system similar to the Werewolf or Vampire transformations. Changing class could transform your available skills and class identity, while the database still records your underlying class as something like Dragonknight.

In practical terms, you would effectively be playing the new class even if the underlying database entry had not changed. The main complication I can see would be class-specific content, particularly the Infinite Archive sets, which would need some way of determining which class should apply. However if the game has sets that can track your vampire stages like Vampire Lord than it may not be a huge issue after all.

Gagoimaliu wrote: »

Is there a single MMO out there that lets you change your class? DCUO? I think that one lets you, otherwise, it's not a thing, FFXIV? that's two, out of how many mmos are around.

It's possible in theory, but it all depends on whether ZOS has the knowledge or the manpower needed to do it, since they need so much time to untangle the entire crossplay thing. The other issue of course is that certain people could just change their class to the meta, and then change it back or keep changing it over and over. So either you have to make it like two class changes per character and that's it, or have a cooldown of like a year between changes

How is it anyone's business how many times a player decides to buy a Class Change Token for their characters?

If a player wants to keep changing their Class — let them. They're spending money which goes towards keeping the servers up. Some players continually change their faction with Alliance Change Tokens each campaign, so there's at least precedent for the impact Class Change Tokens would have.

Remember that anyone can create a new character of the meta Class each patch, for free. The reason we want to be able to change the Class of our characters is because we value the characters themselves — maybe the Class is no longer a good fit for them, or we don't want to lose the progress or name associated with that character.