Official Night Market Feedback Thread

bobdrad · April 30

Are Skirmishes supposed to start at the same time in all instances of a district? That doesn't appear to be happening - in some instances it's not starting at all.

On PS-NA yesterday afternoon I joined a group that was camped on the skirmish spawn point in Sorrow's Friend. In attempting to join them I wound up in a separate instance. Arriving at the spawn point I found the skirmish to be active, but it never spawned for them. Unfortunately before they could travel to me, it deactivated.

Given that we have timers showing the time until the skirmish becomes active for each district, I imagine the intent is to provide some sort of synchrony across instances for skirmish spawns, but that doesn't appear to be working consistently.

Lavia_Frons · April 30

Hynch wrote: »

I get that this is meant to be group content. I get that it's supposed to be challenging. I don't know why it's so punishingly hard though. I play with my wife. We don't expect to be able to kill the bosses. We certainly don't expect to be able to kill the big wandering boss. We do expect to be able to do the quests though. We're decent players that can duo some of the more challenging content, but this was a nightmare. It feels as if the trash mobs were designed to need a tank/healer meta. Coupled with the fact that everything respawns so quickly and death puts you across the zone, it meant we backed out of this event after about an hour. I don't think we will be returning to it either. It's clearly designed for a very narrow audience, which is fine but rather disappointing when it's such a heavily advertised content release.

This was exactly the expectation and experience I had with my partner. We knew we weren't going to be able to kill the bosses or do the trial but we thought we could handle the trash to do the dailies and maybe get some neat rewards. Silly us, we thought we would be able to play even a fraction of the new content.

SerafinaWaterstar · April 30

People have used the GF but had issues with it.

Christerra · April 30

As an extreme introvert, I hate grouping to play the game. I tried going solo..champion 3224, with gold gear (PlagueBreak, Wretched Vitality, and Engine Guardian). I topped that off with Bewitched Sugar Skulls. I could not solo my way through. When I went ahead and joined a group, they were in a different area, and I couldn't teleport to them. Is there a way to do the PVE options and quests w/o joining a group? If so, is it soloable?

Prophet_of_Malacath · April 30

Night Market is a blast.

The fact that it's not designed to be soloed encouraged pro-social behavior. Groups were recruiting on Group Finder. People were resurrecting each other, even if not in the same group, just to pay it forward. People were teaching each other how to engage content, as part of pursuing their own goals. I'd see folks overwhelmed by mobs & a different group then jumps into the fray, rescuing them.
The solo-content was also fun - instead of just powering through everything, I now had a utility for the various stealth gear sets in the game. I can solo some of the district quests, the running & possibly some puzzles. The solo player is forced to strategize.
The rewards so far feel cool - antiquity furnishings are one of my favorite "casual" rewards, just doing content for the chance to farm more.

I'm a little confused about folks claiming it's too hard - even solo, i could often melt some mobs - and it's not difficult to get away. Maybe I'm just built different (pun intended).

I'm still new - so my only issue is figuring out what to farm next.

And as others said, this is possible my favorite zone.

Less world-ending daedric plots where we single-handedly defeat some titanic monsters that should be able to smite us.
More of this "oh, Oblivion is actually dangerous" vibe, especially the environmental effects.

I have optimism that the people who only try smashing through mobs will adjust tactics when they see there are better ways to engage. We can't DPS a sandstorm or gravity!

SerafinaWaterstar · April 30

Prophet_of_Malacath wrote: »

Night Market is a blast.
The fact that it's not designed to be soloed encouraged pro-social behavior. Groups were recruiting on Group Finder. People were resurrecting each other, even if not in the same group, just to pay it forward. People were teaching each other how to engage content, as part of pursuing their own goals. I'd see folks overwhelmed by mobs & a different group then jumps into the fray, rescuing them.

The solo-content was also fun - instead of just powering through everything, I now had a utility for the various stealth gear sets in the game. I can solo some of the district quests, the running & possibly some puzzles. The solo player is forced to strategize.

The rewards so far feel cool - antiquity furnishings are one of my favorite "casual" rewards, just doing content for the chance to farm more.

I'm a little confused about folks claiming it's too hard - even solo, i could often melt some mobs - and it's not difficult to get away. Maybe I'm just built different (pun intended).

I'm still new - so my only issue is figuring out what to farm next.

And as others said, this is possible my favorite zone.
Less world-ending daedric plots where we single-handedly defeat some titanic monsters that should be able to smite us.

More of this "oh, Oblivion is actually dangerous" vibe, especially the environmental effects.

I have optimism that the people who only try smashing through mobs will adjust tactics when they see there are better ways to engage. We can't DPS a sandstorm or gravity!

You appear to be playing something different to the majority posting here.🤣

CameraBeardThePirate · April 30

bobdrad wrote: »

Are Skirmishes supposed to start at the same time in all instances of a district? That doesn't appear to be happening - in some instances it's not starting at all.

On PS-NA yesterday afternoon I joined a group that was camped on the skirmish spawn point in Sorrow's Friend. In attempting to join them I wound up in a separate instance. Arriving at the spawn point I found the skirmish to be active, but it never spawned for them. Unfortunately before they could travel to me, it deactivated.

Given that we have timers showing the time until the skirmish becomes active for each district, I imagine the intent is to provide some sort of synchrony across instances for skirmish spawns, but that doesn't appear to be working consistently.

Idk what the keybind is on console, but there's a scoreboard type thing for the Night Market that you can open and one of the pages there has a cooldown for each of the Skirmishes. They seem to spawn one at a time every 30 minutes.

CameraBeardThePirate · April 30

Christerra wrote: »

As an extreme introvert, I hate grouping to play the game. I tried going solo..champion 3224, with gold gear (PlagueBreak, Wretched Vitality, and Engine Guardian). I topped that off with Bewitched Sugar Skulls. I could not solo my way through. When I went ahead and joined a group, they were in a different area, and I couldn't teleport to them. Is there a way to do the PVE options and quests w/o joining a group? If so, is it soloable?

You're using Plaguebreak? Are you aware that Plaguebreak does not work in PvE? It's a PvP only set. You should be able to teleport to players in your group by right clicking anyone's name then clicking travel to player. It will take you to the same Night Market instance. You then need to figure out which district they're in either by asking or just looking for the group member marker on the doors of the districts.

Lavia_Frons · April 30

Ingel_Riday wrote: »

Your game isn't a different beast anymore, ZOS. You've turned Elder Scrolls Online into a second job. In the past month alone, you've given me a FOMO battlepass chorelist (that I can pay real money to have permanent access to... except that my tome points are still FOMO because HAR HAR), a FOMO event, a FOMO Golden Pursuit chorelist, and now a FOMO event that is a "public dungeon 12-person trial" fusion that COMES WITH ANOTHER FOMO GOLDEN PURSUIT CHORELIST. Of course, the new FOMO Golden Pursuit chorelist does not sync up with the FOMO battlepass chorelist in any way, shape, or form. Because why would it? My time is too delicous, apparently. Gobble gobble.

This x100.

I am beyond bummed that the Golden Pursuit is tied exclusively to the unplayable NM. That was plain cruel.

"Play your way" "No FOMO" unless of course you want the neat skin then you HAVE TO PLAY the extremely difficult content we made for a very niche audience. But no FOMO guys. I don't understand the decisions you all made with the NM and Golden Pursuits. I know I'm new to ESO/MMOs but I have never felt more punished by a game than I did with yesterdays content drops.

My partner and I would have been more than happy to grind away killing trash in the NM so we could get the Gold Pursuit skin. But you won't even let us do that much!

Tandor · April 30

At any normal time I'm a great supporter of options, not least in respect of difficulty levels.

This is not a normal time, however, in that we know the ZOS team has been significantly reduced in size and that the amount of new content is therefore impacted. At such a time it is even more important that such new content as is viable is aimed at the widest possible range of players, and that means implementing difficulty level options.

This new content is clearly out of the reach of many players, perhaps even most. The others may argue from their veteran BIS dungeon and trial experience with thousands of CPs that you can just run Group Finder and it's all a doddle, but that isn't what many players are used to doing or want to do, and many are simply low level or casual. Their loss for sure, but also ZOS's loss too as they assuredly want their content creation to be widely used and acclaimed.

No rational player wants the Night Market switched from its present focus to a more casual one, but everyone would benefit if it was given some difficulty options as they'd all be able to play it then, their way. And ZOS would benefit too.

z32 · April 30

Vaqual wrote: »

Making just the absolutely minimal effort of engaging with the Group Finder completely avoids most of the complaints and frustrations I have seen on the forums. In the game I have seen little to no complaints.

I tried GF yesterday in the evening when most players are online (PC/NA). 4 groups were listed, 3 groups had just 1 player in it and the last one had 3 players with the name of the group "we are completely confused". I heard no complains either, because zone had no players, there was no one to make complains, chat is dead. So no, GF is not working either.

Prophet_of_Malacath · April 30

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Prophet_of_Malacath wrote: »

I have optimism that the people who only try smashing through mobs will adjust tactics when they see there are better ways to engage. We can't DPS a sandstorm or gravity!

You appear to be playing something different to the majority posting here.🤣

I feel ya - but there's always a selection bias that a happy audience won't complain, whereas those who feel "this is not for me" are upset.

If we demand every challenge be beaten by the lowest common denominator of brute force - then brute force is the only gameplay that will matter. This is why everything tends to operate on damage versus armor versus healing. It happens in Battlegrounds, where people will ignore the Objective in favor of just killing other players who maybe aren't interested in Death Match.

So it feels like a necessary growing pain - that if ZOS is going to offer more enriching confrontations, not beholding to DPS/HP/Armor - then it needs to not give mindless DPS a free pass. Doesn't matter if its mobs or natural disasters in the environment, it's good to show players "your sword, no matter how big, can't kill gravity or parry disease" so that we're more situationally aware.

I also killed a bunch of things, without issue - it's mostly the bosses I think need a group.

baldylox · April 30

my only real feedback is on questing in the zones. some of the circles for locations are not working. example. i have 2/3 for ink-parched and keep running around to the 3 circles to trigger a 3rd and it never triggers.

would be super cool if you could jump between BOTH safe zones off the pads or once on top being able to use a portal to the other one. some times its really tiring to rekill all the mobs in a path with randos in a group. too many deaths, too slow.

didnt know about the pieces for the dungeon needed to be done each time. thats gonna be rough for pub randos.

CameraBeardThePirate · April 30

Tandor wrote: »

At any normal time I'm a great supporter of options, not least in respect of difficulty levels.

This is not a normal time, however, in that we know the ZOS team has been significantly reduced in size and that the amount of new content is therefore impacted. At such a time it is even more important that such new content as is viable is aimed at the widest possible range of players, and that means implementing difficulty level options.

This new content is clearly out of the reach of many players, perhaps even most. The others may argue from their veteran BIS dungeon and trial experience with thousands of CPs that you can just run Group Finder and it's all a doddle, but that isn't what many players are used to doing or want to do, and many are simply low level or casual. Their loss for sure, but also ZOS's loss too as they assuredly want their content creation to be widely used and acclaimed.

No rational player wants the Night Market switched from its present focus to a more casual one, but everyone would benefit if it was given some difficulty options as they'd all be able to play it then, their way. And ZOS would benefit too.

Again, I am a PvPer. I've literally never had a PvE build apart from an oakensoul heavy attack builds and a one bar beam build with crafted gear. I do not do vet trials, I rarely do vet dungeons and typically struggle through them.

I was able to do all the night market content in a PvP build via the group finder. People are genuinely acting like the content is harder than it is.

Yes, you're going to die in the Night Market. But guess what? There's literally 0 penalty. Respawn, use the 10 seconds of invincibility and flight you have to travel back to the encounter.

If by some stroke of bad luck, the PUG group you joined can't complete something, drop group and join another. Better yet, drop group and START a new group finder so that there are now 2 groups tackling the content.

Soarora · April 30

Lavia_Frons wrote: »

Ingel_Riday wrote: »

Your game isn't a different beast anymore, ZOS. You've turned Elder Scrolls Online into a second job. In the past month alone, you've given me a FOMO battlepass chorelist (that I can pay real money to have permanent access to... except that my tome points are still FOMO because HAR HAR), a FOMO event, a FOMO Golden Pursuit chorelist, and now a FOMO event that is a "public dungeon 12-person trial" fusion that COMES WITH ANOTHER FOMO GOLDEN PURSUIT CHORELIST. Of course, the new FOMO Golden Pursuit chorelist does not sync up with the FOMO battlepass chorelist in any way, shape, or form. Because why would it? My time is too delicous, apparently. Gobble gobble.

This x100.

I am beyond bummed that the Golden Pursuit is tied exclusively to the unplayable NM. That was plain cruel.

"Play your way" "No FOMO" unless of course you want the neat skin then you HAVE TO PLAY the extremely difficult content we made for a very niche audience. But no FOMO guys. I don't understand the decisions you all made with the NM and Golden Pursuits. I know I'm new to ESO/MMOs but I have never felt more punished by a game than I did with yesterdays content drops.

My partner and I would have been more than happy to grind away killing trash in the NM so we could get the Gold Pursuit skin. But you won't even let us do that much!

Points at the skins from veteran trial completions… points at the skins from dungeon challengers… points at the personalities from dungeon challengers… points at the mounts from trial trifectas… points at the furnishings from trial hard modes… it’s not like this is the first and only skin that requires grouping…?

Arunei · April 30

I got COVID recently so I haven't had the energy or motivation to get on and test the NM yet. I haven't even had the energy to post on the forums. But reading through the feedback thread, I'm disappointed. I had heard ZOS nerfed the difficulty after the PTS testing, but it must have been by about 1% since it seems to have pretty much not changed at all.

The stream at the start of the year that the NM was gone into detail about specifically said this Zone would be difficult, yes, but also said that grouping would be encouraged, not required. They also specifically said that the Zone was for experienced solo players as well, because I've seen a number of people say "oh but it was advertised as a group Zone!". It was advertised as a Zone you could solo if you were experienced but it would be easier if you grouped, NOT as a Zone that's ONLY meant to be done in groups.

I think people who CAN solo this and don't think there's a problem because of it (and don't want it nerfed any to make it more accessible) need to keep some things in mind.

1) They are exceptions, not the norm, for what the average person in this game can do. Like the people who can solo Dragons are. I remember years ago Rich I think it was had been interviewed or something? I'm certain it was mentioned that a majority of players hadn't gotten Dungeon achieves, and that the average DPS was 10k or less or something along those lines. I searched for a while but couldn't find the article/letter, it MIGHT have been the thing about U35 I believe it was. They were supposed to release an article explaining the changes they'd made but I couldn't find squat on that either.

There was the interview in which Rich mentioned a majority of people finding Overland itself as too hard. The devs have access to numbers and other data we don't, and if that data shows the average player is having issues with Overland, they're REALLY going to struggle with how hard the NM is. Even if they're grouping, if they have crud Gear or no CP or Attributes that are all over the place or any other number of things, they're still going to die a lot.

2) Grouping doesn't help if you're still able to get mowed down in a couple of seconds and it takes longer than that to burn trash mobs. And when you do die, as others have pointed out you get split from your group. A majority of people would be PUGing, what do you propose people do when they can no longer do the content because they can't get back to their group? Or can't even do the content at all because they die so quickly?

3) Things can be hard without being impossible to solo. Again, this Zone was advertised as something that experienced players could solo and NOT only as something strictly for groups. I mentioned over and over during the PTS testing that sure, make the Zone around the same difficulty as a Vet DLC dungeon. What we got is a Zone where the basic trash mobs have the health and strength of HM Vet bosses or something. It LITERALLY did not need to be THIS hard.

4) Going kind of hand in hand with the last point, Challenge Difficulty exists for the rest of Overland. People who enjoy challenge don't need to rely on the NM for that. Given that there are wings of the Night Den that REQUIRE you to do stuff in the NM, they really do need to tone this down so people can actually get the wings unlocked. It won't hurt anything if people can actually DO things, but it will hurt if they can't, which leads to my final point.

5) They've said that if the NM is popular enough that it'll become a permanent thing (which I assume means it'll come back every few months and not that it'll stay permanently open). However, with the way it is now, I genuinely don't think it's going to be anywhere near popular enough for them to keep around after the initial three runs they'll HAVE to do for everyone to have a chance of getting each Faction's stuff. Unless they actually plan on keeping it permanent regardless...

At any rate, if people aren't able to do basic quests to get Favor for buying things and can't do the tasks needed to upgrade the Night Den to unlock the wings, they're not going to bother messing with the NM. What's the point when even on solid builds you can't burn down trash because they're all damage sponges and do damage equivalent of a small nuke?

=

There's an easy way to fix this that doesn't make it TOO easy but at least makes it doable for the people this was advertised as BEING for, aka experienced solo players. Lower the health of trash packs and adjust the damage a little. Make it so people have to play smart and avoid high damage but can burn the mobs down quickly enough to avoid that dangerous damage. Because as it is people generally won't be able to survive that damage long enough to get through the health of these things.

Edits: Typos and formatting goof.

coop500 · April 30

Soarora wrote: »

Lavia_Frons wrote: »

Ingel_Riday wrote: »

Your game isn't a different beast anymore, ZOS. You've turned Elder Scrolls Online into a second job. In the past month alone, you've given me a FOMO battlepass chorelist (that I can pay real money to have permanent access to... except that my tome points are still FOMO because HAR HAR), a FOMO event, a FOMO Golden Pursuit chorelist, and now a FOMO event that is a "public dungeon 12-person trial" fusion that COMES WITH ANOTHER FOMO GOLDEN PURSUIT CHORELIST. Of course, the new FOMO Golden Pursuit chorelist does not sync up with the FOMO battlepass chorelist in any way, shape, or form. Because why would it? My time is too delicous, apparently. Gobble gobble.

This x100.

I am beyond bummed that the Golden Pursuit is tied exclusively to the unplayable NM. That was plain cruel.

"Play your way" "No FOMO" unless of course you want the neat skin then you HAVE TO PLAY the extremely difficult content we made for a very niche audience. But no FOMO guys. I don't understand the decisions you all made with the NM and Golden Pursuits. I know I'm new to ESO/MMOs but I have never felt more punished by a game than I did with yesterdays content drops.

My partner and I would have been more than happy to grind away killing trash in the NM so we could get the Gold Pursuit skin. But you won't even let us do that much!

Points at the skins from veteran trial completions… points at the skins from dungeon challengers… points at the personalities from dungeon challengers… points at the mounts from trial trifectas… points at the furnishings from trial hard modes… it’s not like this is the first and only skin that requires grouping…?

All permanent rewards you can work towards and plan for, not a timed grindy crapshoot FOMO disaster

Tandor · April 30

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

At any normal time I'm a great supporter of options, not least in respect of difficulty levels.

This is not a normal time, however, in that we know the ZOS team has been significantly reduced in size and that the amount of new content is therefore impacted. At such a time it is even more important that such new content as is viable is aimed at the widest possible range of players, and that means implementing difficulty level options.

This new content is clearly out of the reach of many players, perhaps even most. The others may argue from their veteran BIS dungeon and trial experience with thousands of CPs that you can just run Group Finder and it's all a doddle, but that isn't what many players are used to doing or want to do, and many are simply low level or casual. Their loss for sure, but also ZOS's loss too as they assuredly want their content creation to be widely used and acclaimed.

No rational player wants the Night Market switched from its present focus to a more casual one, but everyone would benefit if it was given some difficulty options as they'd all be able to play it then, their way. And ZOS would benefit too.

Again, I am a PvPer. I've literally never had a PvE build apart from an oakensoul heavy attack builds and a one bar beam build with crafted gear. I do not do vet trials, I rarely do vet dungeons and typically struggle through them.

How many CPs do you have?

twisttop138 · April 30

Tandor wrote: »

At any normal time I'm a great supporter of options, not least in respect of difficulty levels.

This is not a normal time, however, in that we know the ZOS team has been significantly reduced in size and that the amount of new content is therefore impacted. At such a time it is even more important that such new content as is viable is aimed at the widest possible range of players, and that means implementing difficulty level options.

This new content is clearly out of the reach of many players, perhaps even most. The others may argue from their veteran BIS dungeon and trial experience with thousands of CPs that you can just run Group Finder and it's all a doddle, but that isn't what many players are used to doing or want to do, and many are simply low level or casual. Their loss for sure, but also ZOS's loss too as they assuredly want their content creation to be widely used and acclaimed.

No rational player wants the Night Market switched from its present focus to a more casual one, but everyone would benefit if it was given some difficulty options as they'd all be able to play it then, their way. And ZOS would benefit too.

As someone who enjoys the market and thinks the difficulty is fine, all for a vet and normal mode. Let's get everyone in here.

Soarora · April 30

coop500 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Lavia_Frons wrote: »

Ingel_Riday wrote: »

Your game isn't a different beast anymore, ZOS. You've turned Elder Scrolls Online into a second job. In the past month alone, you've given me a FOMO battlepass chorelist (that I can pay real money to have permanent access to... except that my tome points are still FOMO because HAR HAR), a FOMO event, a FOMO Golden Pursuit chorelist, and now a FOMO event that is a "public dungeon 12-person trial" fusion that COMES WITH ANOTHER FOMO GOLDEN PURSUIT CHORELIST. Of course, the new FOMO Golden Pursuit chorelist does not sync up with the FOMO battlepass chorelist in any way, shape, or form. Because why would it? My time is too delicous, apparently. Gobble gobble.

This x100.

I am beyond bummed that the Golden Pursuit is tied exclusively to the unplayable NM. That was plain cruel.

"Play your way" "No FOMO" unless of course you want the neat skin then you HAVE TO PLAY the extremely difficult content we made for a very niche audience. But no FOMO guys. I don't understand the decisions you all made with the NM and Golden Pursuits. I know I'm new to ESO/MMOs but I have never felt more punished by a game than I did with yesterdays content drops.

My partner and I would have been more than happy to grind away killing trash in the NM so we could get the Gold Pursuit skin. But you won't even let us do that much!

Points at the skins from veteran trial completions… points at the skins from dungeon challengers… points at the personalities from dungeon challengers… points at the mounts from trial trifectas… points at the furnishings from trial hard modes… it’s not like this is the first and only skin that requires grouping…?

All permanent rewards you can work towards and plan for, not a timed grindy crapshoot FOMO disaster

To be honest, I thought it was also an achievement reward like how the style pages in the pursuit are also obtainable from the vendors. Heres a thought (and feedback)… re-add the skin in as a reward in a future night market with a new achievement tied to it.

coop500 · April 30

My final comment on the subject, as beyond this point, the data will speak for itself one way or another:

Note: This post is also directed to the devs. @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

And when I say elites, I'm specifying the players that are running around to every thread berating anyone who says the Night Market is too hard, and making threads and comments about people being 'cry babies' about it, and even calling for the devs to silence them.

What do the elites gain from enforcing simple trash enemies to be impossible to beat by casual players?
They have all the bosses, and they have a trial and a dungeon. But they need the ENTIRE place just for themselves instead.

All the people here are asking is to be able to beat the trash enemies. Does having 2-shot trash enemies mean THAT much to the elite community? Does gatekeeping the casuals from the Night Market mean that much to you guys?

Nobody is even asking for it to become braindead overland difficulty, there is a BALANCE between these two things, something that's actually doable by the average player, without needing babysitters. It doesn't mean they have to fall over in two hits, that's not what anyone is asking for.

Just the ability to beat them comfortably for those who are newer to the game, more casual, maybe have disabilities or whatever. Sure, they won't likely be doing the trial or dungeon, or beating the bosses, but that's okay! They could at least do the dailies, and that's what most of us reasonable people are asking for, and that's not taking away the entire Night Market from you guys. Its just making the mind numbing part (trash packs) not a gate from 80% or more of the playerbase.

A good group bulldozes these trash packs anyway, you guys likely wont even notice a difference if the devs toned these down by just 20-30%, but those who are struggling to even take part will defo notice, and actually be able to play instead of just leaving.

The ESO community needs empathy, and it needs it now.

TLDR: Toning back the trash enemies so casual/disabled players can do the daily quests of the Night Market doesn't take the whole event away, as you still have all the bosses a trial and a dungeon. The trash mobs also don't need to be reduced to 2shot overland mobs, but just a healthy 20-30% nerf to their HP and damage. There's a happy medium, casual players aren't your enemy, they're just asking to be able to play in the new event even a little bit.

CameraBeardThePirate · April 30

Tandor wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

At any normal time I'm a great supporter of options, not least in respect of difficulty levels.

This is not a normal time, however, in that we know the ZOS team has been significantly reduced in size and that the amount of new content is therefore impacted. At such a time it is even more important that such new content as is viable is aimed at the widest possible range of players, and that means implementing difficulty level options.

This new content is clearly out of the reach of many players, perhaps even most. The others may argue from their veteran BIS dungeon and trial experience with thousands of CPs that you can just run Group Finder and it's all a doddle, but that isn't what many players are used to doing or want to do, and many are simply low level or casual. Their loss for sure, but also ZOS's loss too as they assuredly want their content creation to be widely used and acclaimed.

No rational player wants the Night Market switched from its present focus to a more casual one, but everyone would benefit if it was given some difficulty options as they'd all be able to play it then, their way. And ZOS would benefit too.

Again, I am a PvPer. I've literally never had a PvE build apart from an oakensoul heavy attack builds and a one bar beam build with crafted gear. I do not do vet trials, I rarely do vet dungeons and typically struggle through them.

How many CPs do you have?

Dude you are missing the forest for the trees. It doesnt really matter how much CP one has if their style of gameplay can vary completely. Acting like someone with high CP is automatically going to have an easy time in NM is just as bad as gatekeeping those with low CP from joining groups. Champ points don't even add that much these days anyways since the CP2.0 rework.

The point is that there is an ingame feature that allows you to join a PUG group. The Night Market is designed to be completed by PUG groups. It has very few coordinated mechanics, and just needs someone holding aggro and someone tossing around some heals. You can be CP 200 in crafted gear, join a PUG, and get carried through. You may die, you may get stuck at times, but if I can do it in a PvP build with horrible rotation skills with a PUG, anyone should be able to do it with a PUG.

Lavia_Frons · April 30

coop500 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Lavia_Frons wrote: »

Ingel_Riday wrote: »

Your game isn't a different beast anymore, ZOS. You've turned Elder Scrolls Online into a second job. In the past month alone, you've given me a FOMO battlepass chorelist (that I can pay real money to have permanent access to... except that my tome points are still FOMO because HAR HAR), a FOMO event, a FOMO Golden Pursuit chorelist, and now a FOMO event that is a "public dungeon 12-person trial" fusion that COMES WITH ANOTHER FOMO GOLDEN PURSUIT CHORELIST. Of course, the new FOMO Golden Pursuit chorelist does not sync up with the FOMO battlepass chorelist in any way, shape, or form. Because why would it? My time is too delicous, apparently. Gobble gobble.

This x100.

I am beyond bummed that the Golden Pursuit is tied exclusively to the unplayable NM. That was plain cruel.

"Play your way" "No FOMO" unless of course you want the neat skin then you HAVE TO PLAY the extremely difficult content we made for a very niche audience. But no FOMO guys. I don't understand the decisions you all made with the NM and Golden Pursuits. I know I'm new to ESO/MMOs but I have never felt more punished by a game than I did with yesterdays content drops.

My partner and I would have been more than happy to grind away killing trash in the NM so we could get the Gold Pursuit skin. But you won't even let us do that much!

Points at the skins from veteran trial completions… points at the skins from dungeon challengers… points at the personalities from dungeon challengers… points at the mounts from trial trifectas… points at the furnishings from trial hard modes… it’s not like this is the first and only skin that requires grouping…?

All permanent rewards you can work towards and plan for, not a timed grindy crapshoot FOMO disaster

Exactly. Thank you Coop.

I'm not talking about trials I'm talking about the Golden Pursuit.

I'm happy to work and progress for things I want and accept the things I can't work towards. But even during Whitestrake’s Mayhem Event (which I don't participate in) I can make progress on the Golden Pursuit. I can barely do jack this month in the Golden Pursuit and it feels like a punishment because I don't want to/can't do the NM.

The fact that they keep saying crap like "getting rid of FOMO" and then pull a stunt like this is rubbing salt in the wound.

SerafinaWaterstar · April 30

@CameraBeardThePirate

Yes, you're going to die in the Night Market. But guess what? There's literally 0 penalty. Respawn, use the 10 seconds of invincibility and flight you have to travel back to the encounter.

There is a penalty so stop saying there isn’t. It’s not fair or correct.

You can’t always get back to the encounter in time & then have to deal with the mobs. Alone.

And then there is uncertainty that you will get the drop from the boss if not back in time.

So if you are trying to get the correct drops so you can progress through to get the items you want or access further stuff, then, yes, there is s penalty for dying.

But if you are just running round killing stuff & don’t care about that, then dying is fine.

shadoza · April 30

Disappointing. I find the NM disappointing.
I could say more but the dev team isn't going to care what a solo player thinks so there is no point to elaborate.

Psyphiman · April 30

I love the werewolf potions in the Sorrow’s Friend zone. I was able to kill 75 enemies solo. This is a great approach to making the zone more playable for solo players. Don’t nerf the mobs, just give limited buffs to the player that allow them to do everything but kill bosses.

Defatank · April 30

We are making progress....

I just wonder how much longer it will take for obvious suggestions and advice that has been given not only from myself but from other numerous sources of players that are truly invested in the best interest of ESO's development before we "get it right".

In the sense of combat as I have stated months and years ago.... Simply adding more HP to monsters to make them "more difficult" is not a proper way to develop and create content. The short answer here and you are being told again ZOS is that combat should be balanced in a manner where the player does not feel like they are "God mode" the entire time and not challenged what so ever and the same is the opposite of where players feel like they should "avoid" combat because they know they're going to get wrecked in .5 seconds of entering combat. Combat should feel like I need to actually pay attention to what is going on in front of me, use abilities at my disposal to do the "dance" of combat in dealing damage and staying alive in a dynamic form and not a static form of a "rotation". If your team can thread the needle I am talking about where combat is a balanced enjoyable form of "fun" in the sense that I am not a mindless zombie running around the world mashing a series of buttons simply because "its time to hit that button" but also whenever I choose to engage ANY enemy in the game world I am greeted with a feeling that the enemy absolutely has the potential to take my player down if I dont dedicate some level of focus in what I am doing. The next target in this design is the amount of "time" involved for each interaction of combat. So just exactly what is the "perfect" amount of time in combat? Well that depends. If I am just roaming around stonefalls fighting random beetles that combat time probably needs to be pretty short, but because they're beetles they're not dangerous right? Wrong. You could absolutely make that combat interaction just as fun and threatening with a short amount of time required for that combat. Versus going into a fight of me versus 8 monsters at once and I spend 3 minutes fighting them only to realize there is another 8 monsters 10 feet away thats going to be another 3 minutes of fighting. Your problem with both of these scenarios currently is the beetles I smack once and off to the next beetle and its honestly pretty pointless to interact with it and not fun and I just run around that beetle and carry on to whatever I am doing. Where as your 8 monsters that I have to dedicate 3 min of fighting to and eventually can kill them off seems to long winded of a fight and I am about to spend the next 30 min of my life trying to cover a small section of the map only for them to respawn behind me and that also becomes of thing that I am going to figure out a way to avoid that combat altogether (sneaking around / vampire stage 4) and get to my target. Both scenarios are not "fun". How do we fix this? Scaling. Give the monsters enough health by default so that if 1 player decides to interact then that 1 player can kill the monsters and have a fun interaction of combat where they cant just waltz in and get whatever loot they want and be a mindless zombie but the combat is actually fun and engaging and at the end of the combat they're left with the feeling of "that was fun". Versus if you have 10 people who choose to jump in and fight monsters they adjust to that influx of numerous players in combat with them and maybe even a new set of combat dynamics get thrown into the mix because its not a single player attacking them, but the point here is 1 player or 10 players all trying to kill the target should have similar experiences in the combat of something being "fun" and everyone is paying attention to what they're doing and not being stuck with this "just press the buttons because its time to press the buttons" and the monsters will eventually die. Now onto the next part that I know some of you will start hollering "Night Market is GROUP content". Yes I agree GROUP content is absolutely necessary in the game and rewards should reflect the such for putting together a GROUP to do GROUP content. These encounters are absolutely intended to have numerous players engaging the encounters and all contributing to the effort of surviving and becoming victorious over whatever the encounter is. Should a solo player be able to go in by himself and complete any and all GROUP content? Short answer is No, that is why its GROUP content. Where I feel like the hiccup is in the Night Market is a good chunk of it is group content, but I literally dont see anyone else in the vast majority of the area. I have a much better chance of seeing someone standing in the palace afk than I do dynamically running into someone fighting monsters. I can probably count on 1 hand right now the number of people I have dynamically seen in the "group" areas of the night market. Yea I could absolutely start a group up and get people to go in there with me, but its not a forced setting like you would see with like a dungeon finder system. So if we're going to leave it open and just let people waltz in and continue to bash their head against mobs that they need 3+ minutes of constant interaction just to get the most basic adds down you probably need to litter the place with real players who can all contribute to fighting them and make the content more bearable OR force a queue system that will party people up with a common goal in mind and a sense of direction. Because what you have right now is just the wild west of chaos of people running in all cardinal directions doing different things when they do manage to see other players. On top of that you end up with the issue of to many people being in one spot killing something and these really powerful monsters die within seconds of spawning, again proving my point of needing a scalable system which leaves players with a positive combat experience after the fight is over with.

TL;DR: Combat needs to be reworked across the board with scalability to make simple encounter and difficult encounters engaging and fun.

Next the "rewards". All I'm going to really say with this is I truly though that there would be some "different" rewards depending on my choice of faction and honestly there isn't. They all 3 have the exact same rewards with the exception of a helm and shoulders. If you're going to go through the trouble of making a full system of factions and dicing things up and there suppose to be a sense of "choice" at least make it feel like there truly is a difference in what I am choosing. Honestly I feel like the Night Market would have been better off with no factions being involved and then having 1 vendor with the rewards and then you can choose 1 of 3 helm / shoulders that you like and then buy the other stuff that all 3 vendors have.

I could easily go on about other items of suggestion but I've been on my soapbox long enough I'll go back to my hole and wait patiently for the light bulb to come on

I still love you ZOS

and ESO

Thank you,
Defatank

kind_hero · April 30

I have tried the Night Market for a bit, and checked the 3 zones doing the first quest.

My opinion is that trash mobs are to hard, and this makes the zone a pass for those who like to play solo or just can't find a group when they have time to play. By this, I don't mean that everything else should be easier... maybe it's fine for bosses to be hard, and to require groups, that's okay. But the NM is pretty off limits for solo players, which wasn't the way this content was announced.

The Night Market seems to be interesting enough, and it would be interesting to explore, but it seems it was designed more towards the people who complained that overland and the game was to easy. I believe the NM has enough challenges for those kind of players, however the solo players are left out.

The house is a big plus, especially because it comes with a few innovations, like the treasury and the guild vault. I would like to see these features as upgrades in other existing houses too.

Right now, I am not a big fan of the Night Market because of the difficulty for solo players.

Threemoons · April 30

Too hard and too chaotic. Nothing here for solo players; unless you are part of a zerg group it's impossible.

Lugaldu · April 30

21h at a Friday evening on day two and there is not a single player in the Night Market - how are we supposed to get here anyhing done or enjoy anything?