Maintenance for the week of May 11:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – May 11
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – May 11
April 20th Vengeance Only..
-
L_Nici✭✭✭✭✭
✭albertberku wrote: »Wow, how diverse the builds in GH are actually. When it comes to talk everyone plays pure magsorcs and nightblades and stamsorcs and wardens. Interesting that you never see them in any of the PvP zones, when you are actually there. Beng a bad player, i might have not recognised them.
I am not asking for your builds, because i know already what you all play. I am just asking for some proof of what you are saying other than bunch of "trust me bro, we are the pvp ers in this game, but we can't share our secret diverse build and gameplay". Show us. Proove what you say. If i were to count your playtime on DK or subclassed DK with other damage lines this patch, it would be around 98%. Tell us it is wrong, and then ask yourself the same question when you are alone. Let me guess what you will all play with your diverse builds next patch. Werewolf?
Playing 1 hr on pure stamsorc near your castle and then spending whole patch in DK doesnt really count as "i play all builds". You play "all builds" but only when one of the builds again meta is. So, with all the meta changes you of course play all builds, because every patch meta build shifts to something completely different. So you take turns of builds, together and at the exact same time with all your pvp er buddies. This is your "build diversity". Use almost exact same or identical skill lines, and playstyle. Change one glyph from infused to bloodthirsty, use a set that gives 500 weapon dmg instead of 4k pen or a proc one. And then call it theorycrafting. Your build is diverse allright, but not from each other, just between different patches.
Tell me your most played build (just the skill lines) this patch and through the subclass ones prior. Let's be factual here.
That Stasmorc is my most played build. It is my Main with a playtime of 191 Days, 21 Hours and 24 minutes. Most of which in PvP.
DSwing, Hunter, Execute, Momentum, Bound Armaments
Poison Inject, Streak, Dark Deal, Hurricane, Vigor
So not even Crystal Weapon, because it feels clunky af.Edited by L_Nici on 26 April 2026 12:08PC|EU0 -
albertberku✭✭✭✭Ok, you play that build. How many other pure stamsorcs do you see playing when you play?0 -
L_Nici✭✭✭✭✭
✭albertberku wrote: »Ok, you play that build. How many other pure stamsorcs do you see playing when you play?
Stamsorc? Basically none, Stamsorc got not much love over the years, Magsorc is used way more or Subclasses.PC|EU1 -
albertberku✭✭✭✭Yeah that is kinda my point. Well i have not seen a single pure stamsorc last patches. I have seen more than 0 pure magsorcs, but also not more than 10. But i have also not seen more than 10 subclass builds that do not use 3 of those: Assasination, Storm Calling, Aedric Spear, Animal Companions, Grave Lord, Restoring Light. And this patch DK and its Ardent Flame. That is my whole point.Edited by albertberku on 26 April 2026 12:130
-
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭You can literally just look up some YouTube videos to see that not everyone’s built the same in pvp and there’s far more build diversity in Cyrodiil than there is in any trial group lolZos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...5 -
albertberku✭✭✭✭Now we are comparing the PvP build diversity with trial groups? I would expect trial groups to have 0 build diversity. Any number would be higher than 0.
I did this search on Youtube: "eso u49 pvp build". These are the first videos i got:
1 - GodspawnBaca: Animal Companions + Storm Calling + Assasination
2 - Snackie Chan: Pure DK
3 - epic-buttkr: OneShot Pulse Ganker
4 - Kozy: Ardent Flame + Aedric Spear + Storm Calling
5 - NastYyc: Pure DK
6 - Decimus: Pure DK
7 - virtualESO: Ardent Flame + Earthen Heart + Assasination
8 - Scvythe: Pure DK
9 - Pummels: Assasination + Storm Calling + Aedric Spear
10 - Hulk: Ardent Flame + Draconic Power + Storm Calling
11 - Gloomfrost: Pure DK
12 - AnimeBoopz: Pure DK
13 - React Faster: Pure DK
14 - YEK: Pure DK
15 - Boonited: Ardent Flame + Animal Companions + Restoring Light
16 - AdamLad: Pure Magsorc
17 - Mrk: Pure DK
18 - Eman: Pure DK
19 - PelicanXI: Pure DK
20 - Nova Nelson: Pure DK
As i said before, lets stay factual. According to these videos:
60% Pure DK
30% Damage Line/DK Subclass: Ardent Flame, Assasination, Aedric Spear, Storm Calling, Animal Companions.
5% Ganker
5% Pure Magsorc
Interestingly these numbers align exactly with my observations in GH. In comparison i would say Vengeance numbers are around 30% NB, 20% Magsorc, 50% rest divided almost equally with one or two classes played a bit less. Since this is PvP, these numbers are the direct representation of the balance between builds one to one.
As the next step i would just list the number of exact same abilities these builds are using. But please don't make me do it.Edited by albertberku on 26 April 2026 13:370 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭albertberku wrote: »Now we are comparing the PvP build diversity with trial groups? I would expect trial groups to have 0 build diversity. Any number would be higher than 0.
Trial groups, dungeons, any pve really. I think it’s a fair comparison since so many on the forums are clearly pve mains and want their “vengeance” on us sweaty pvpers who all use the same godly build that anyone can just slap on and be good at the game.
That build we’re all wearing is 7 piece hundings, btw.Edited by BardokRedSnow on 26 April 2026 12:30Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...2 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Half of them do, the other half is convinced that Spriggan's + Shacklebreaker is some sort of overpowered secret tech that proves how skilled they are.albertberku wrote: »Don't you all play almost the exact same build every patch in GH which is simply the meta of that patch?PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP0 -
reazea✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »to figure out what ZOS needed to do to improve live Cyrodiil.
That bit people seem just to have assumed. Never made any sense though.
It always made sense up until ZOS made the statement there was nothing they could do to fix Cyrodiil. ZOS' origninal statements regarding the purpose of vengeance was specifically and exactly that they were doing vengance tests to see how they could improve live Cyrodiil. ZOS made this statement numerous times, in numerous threads and announcements. And for a decade ZOS vehemently exclaimed they were working on live Cyrodiil performance.
This means ZOS was not putting in the efforts they said they were over all those years and that they were deceptive or flat lied about the purpose of vengeance.
This is what bothers me most about vengeance. It was a lie from the beginning and it appears to be set to replace the reason I log on to play ESO. If ZOS takes away the PvP I purchased the game to play there will be no reason for me to log in anymore, and I've logged in daily for almost 12 years now.4 -
reazea✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »robertlabrie wrote: »It's interesting that the anti-vengeance camp just wants our old campaigns back and the pro-vengeance camp keeps trying to explain why we're wrong and that we should learn to like it.robertlabrie wrote: »It's interesting that the anti-vengeance camp just wants our old campaigns back and the pro-vengeance camp keeps trying to explain why we're wrong and that we should learn to like it.
The anti-vengeance camp doesn’t just want its campaign back. They want to remove Veangence even as an option. If they asked to keep GreyHost side by side with Veangence majority of Vengeance supporters would agree but for some Vengeance haters preventing others from playing Vengeance is more important than getting GreyHost back.
We do not want to remove Vengeance as an option. We want it to be an Option aside ALL regular PvP campaigns. Instead it will be added and 3 of our campaigns will get closed for good. NoCP gone, Standard gone, below 50 gone. Instead we are stuck with CP, Alliance Lock Grey Host for more than double the current population. That will only create huge Queues, preventing us from playing. Vengeance does take something away from us, it doesn't add. Also ZOS focus should have been to fix the actual PvP, not creating a new gamemode.
PCNA in reality 99% of the time u50 campaign has been dead since like clockwork after the Aussie guilds flipped the map to AD for years in a row. Then they moved to NOCP which combined with the already looming AD guilds inevitably flipping the maps nightly killing the campaigns. Then all of these guilds got bored in their own campaign and moved on to greyhost which luckily has the pop to balance them out. The 7day cp campaign turns into overflow hangout spot for ballgroups and 1vX players who hardly even fight each other, being so sweaty made the casual player guilds prefer going to GH or simply not playing.
If the campaigns are dead are we really losing much when Veng replaces them? 90% of people already sit in ques for greyhost or give up and go into bgs for the night. Atleast there is the slight benefit that the uber casual and new players have an entry point in pvp since for years u50 and nocp have been non functional. If anything it frees up que in GH.
They probably learned they cant fix live pvp because its entirely dependent on all of the proc event functions that are disabled with modern item sets, status effect, poisons, weapon enchants, passives, cp, etc. This is why the loadout perk system was made to only modify your permanent character sheet. Design wise they would have to trim ALOT of fat and then limit themselves in ways like maybe only one proc passive per class on the last unlocked bonus. Maybe only ults get crazy effects. Either way it needs to be split from PvE, then you are talking whether to design from the ground up or designing from the top down by untyng a decade long knotted ball of code.
ZOS built it, they can fix it. It's a lie to say they can't do anything to fix live cyrodiil.
Thank you. You're just stating the obvious, but the obvious seems to be escaping many participating in this discussion.2 -
reazea✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They're not getting rid of GH. What are you guys so worried about?
You don't know this to be true. You know what they've said, but what's that worth now that we know vengeance was never a test? And that we now know all those years they said they were working on improving performance that they were, well, who knows what they were doing, but they never improved performance EXCEPT when they replaced the server hardware...which, ironically, improved performance even though they said it wouldn't.4 -
reazea✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If the intent was to let new players learn the ins and outs of pvp in a build-neutral environment, then why change all the skills and seige? Equipment and maybe multiclassing should be the only variables locked down.
The way things are, if someone plays Vengeance for a while and then decides to give GH a try, they're going to feel like they're in a different game entirely.
Exactly. The argument that vengeance is a good intro to live cyro PvP is not a valid argument.2 -
reazea✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭JustLovely wrote: »The elephant in the room nobody is talking about:
If ZOS can't make normal live Cyrodiil work properly they can't make vengeance work properly either.
I mean if a team that doesn't know about pvp develops a pvp mode of course it attracts players that don't know about pvp.
It does seem that it's the same people that call ToT PvP are developing vengeance.5 -
moderatelyfatman✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭JustLovely wrote: »The elephant in the room nobody is talking about:
If ZOS can't make normal live Cyrodiil work properly they can't make vengeance work properly either.
I mean if a team that doesn't know about pvp develops a pvp mode of course it attracts players that don't know about pvp.
It does seem that it's the same people that call ToT PvP are developing vengeance.
By the same measure: there's better PvP in this forum than in Vengeance.4 -
reazea✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭moderatelyfatman wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »The elephant in the room nobody is talking about:
If ZOS can't make normal live Cyrodiil work properly they can't make vengeance work properly either.
I mean if a team that doesn't know about pvp develops a pvp mode of course it attracts players that don't know about pvp.
It does seem that it's the same people that call ToT PvP are developing vengeance.
By the same measure: there's better PvP in this forum than in Vengeance.
Agreed.1 -
Vulkunne✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Half of them do, the other half is convinced that Spriggan's + Shacklebreaker is some sort of overpowered secret tech that proves how skilled they are.albertberku wrote: »Don't you all play almost the exact same build every patch in GH which is simply the meta of that patch?
You forgot Sellstrix. I know today all everyone cares about is meta and procs but for a long time what you have there was bread and butter. That's actually the makings of a decent WW build.
And yes, it's still a good setup, though its mainly for burst and dots. It's easy to proc and have a computer do the work for you but that kind of setup would only be used by someone with real skill and confidence tbh.
Back in the day players would have actual 'fights' with setups like this. Nowadays it's just about kills and there is no fight to be found, only AP but none for you and none for me.
Edited by Vulkunne on 27 April 2026 01:17Today Victory is mine. Long live the Empire.0 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »That screenshot of a dead Vengeance with one faction way out in front factors into the point I was trying to make yesterday perfectly.
I asked a question about the definition of skill in this game’s PVP, and the reason is because of a thought I have every single time pro-Vengeance people bring up the boilerplate argument of the mode requiring more skill, and so-called veteran PVP players not being able to keep up without being carried by sets or whatever other cope they come up with. However, here’s my question:
If you have so much skill, what’s stopping you from bringing it to GH and making the most out of PVP?
See, I asked the initial question about the definition of skill because I wanted to see if any one of the Vengeance enjoyers could actually tell me what skills make them successful in Vengeance, and more importantly, whether or not those skills could be applied to GH.
But that image of a half-dead campaign utterly dominated by one faction tells me that it’s not about skill. It’s about taking the easy win. You don’t get scores like that without everyone flipping over to the winning faction to zerg surf. Real skill means fighting the zerg, staying on the underdog faction, and finding good fights.
Instead, we’re getting avalanches of players flipping the map, PvDooring their way to victory, and thinking that’s how Cyrodiil should be for everyone. And it’s got two bars at maximum while GH would be pop locked on all factions at this very moment.
I was under the impression PvP was all about the zerg. Nothing else really matters.
0 -
Iriidius✭✭✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »I popped in rq to see how the Vengeance was Coming along:
And here's how the last Greyhost campaign went:
Despite all the chest pounding and boasting in this thread from the Vengeance fans, it is on day two already a dead campaign. Everyone is seemingly just logging in on their ep toons to take everything, so much that while ep is over 4K points already, everyone else is under 1k. Thats pretty telling. And yes I know it resets early, even with the math incorporating this, this is really really bad, and in fact if it wasnt regularly resetting, the difference would be even greater.
This campaign is actually deader than Ravenwatch and Blackreach, impressive. And Zos decided to halt our very competitive, very active Greyhost pvp, for this. Pvers claim they want Vengeance yet not enough of them are saying this to make the campaign function, much less make it competitive.
Give it a rest Zos, and focus again on Greyhost. This is ridiculous.BardokRedSnow wrote: »I popped in rq to see how the Vengeance was Coming along:
And here's how the last Greyhost campaign went:
Despite all the chest pounding and boasting in this thread from the Vengeance fans, it is on day two already a dead campaign. Everyone is seemingly just logging in on their ep toons to take everything, so much that while ep is over 4K points already, everyone else is under 1k. Thats pretty telling. And yes I know it resets early, even with the math incorporating this, this is really really bad, and in fact if it wasnt regularly resetting, the difference would be even greater.
This campaign is actually deader than Ravenwatch and Blackreach, impressive. And Zos decided to halt our very competitive, very active Greyhost pvp, for this. Pvers claim they want Vengeance yet not enough of them are saying this to make the campaign function, much less make it competitive.
Give it a rest Zos, and focus again on Greyhost. This is ridiculous.BardokRedSnow wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »
So all this hate and you've never even played it.BardokRedSnow wrote: »No, because I don't play it.
Before Vengeance came out I was a hater. I thought it sounded as dumb as No Proc Ravenwatch. But after playing it I saw the potential. Will it live up to that? Idk, it hasn't yet.
I did on the first test, for an hour, then never bothered to again. It was a zerg fest, and judging from the pictures of the campaign score and the map being all red every time I go in to see it, it still is.
And judging from my friends list going from almost 30 every day online out of 100 to under 7, I'm not the only one. People don't need to invest hours of time to decide what they like, they will simply not play it, and the game dies.
I encourage Zos to remember this with so many game developers trying the same thing, telling customers "just try it please" instead of listening to what they want in the first place. The game dies, and thats it.
Also considering most of the vengeance enjoyers stop playing themselves after a day or two, it doesn't seem like I'm missing out much.
Dedicated Greyhost players play every single day, at least in one time block, especially primetime. Vengeance will never be that, it hasn't been since the first test once everyone realized that zerging is 99 percent of the game mode and nothing else.
Cyrodiil PVP in general is a zerg fest. It doesn't matter what mode it is.
There's zerging players, and then there's zerging empty keeps.
These 2 cherrypicket Screenshots are not really comparable.
While Grey Host score is over a duration of 20 days, Vengeance score from screenshot doesnt cover even one day but only 12 hours. Factions often hold map at different times of the day, but if you play only in the evening you will only see the score of EP taking the map at noon but not of DC taking it at night and AD in early morning because score resets at noon. EP emperors didnt last for more than a few hours before getting dethroned.
It is also nonsense to compare Vengeance score with GreyHost rather than with the campaigns it is supposed to replace. GreyHost has only a third of Vengeance capacity but majority of Cyrodiils playerbase and is therefore easy to fill. If a faction has more players they dont fit into GreyHost and have to play Cyrodiil in other campaign or not at all.
Vengeance has the players and unbalance from queue and other campaigns too.
GreyHost having faction scores so close together is extremely rare either.
Vengeance also didn’t receive low pop and low score bonus yet, otherwise for each of them DC and AD would have received 150% more score and 110% more ap which would have motivated more players on these factions to play and the score would be similar or better than in BR/RW.
The problem is not normalized stats but missing low pop/score bonus and unreachable pop cap.PC EU0 -
LadyGP✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Posting this here since this has been a very active thread and I'm sure will get some devs attention:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8464907/#Comment_8464907LadyGP/xCatGuy
PC/NA
Having network issues? Discconects? DM me and I will help you troubleshoot with PingPlotter to figure out what is going on.0 -
Iriidius✭✭✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: ».albertberku wrote: »Don't you all play almost the exact same build every patch in GH which is the simply the meta of that patch?
Congrats, you are in the lucky 99% of GH players with your very own theorycrafted build!
no.... and its so cringe seeing yall repeat this lie here.
if that were the case there wouldn't be so many puggles getting farmed, and complaining about it here. And trust me, for every one of us farming you, theres even better players that can and have farmed us.
Those pugs get told their opinion doesnt matter because they are not PvP players when they ask for changes in PvP but if it fits your agenda they are still used as proof for build diversity.
A build is not viable if it handicaps you so much you get farmed. Most pugs just dont use the Meta build because they don’t have it because unlike Vengeance you don’t get it automatically but have to find out and farm first.PC EU0 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭
✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »I popped in rq to see how the Vengeance was Coming along:
And here's how the last Greyhost campaign went:
Despite all the chest pounding and boasting in this thread from the Vengeance fans, it is on day two already a dead campaign. Everyone is seemingly just logging in on their ep toons to take everything, so much that while ep is over 4K points already, everyone else is under 1k. Thats pretty telling. And yes I know it resets early, even with the math incorporating this, this is really really bad, and in fact if it wasnt regularly resetting, the difference would be even greater.
This campaign is actually deader than Ravenwatch and Blackreach, impressive. And Zos decided to halt our very competitive, very active Greyhost pvp, for this. Pvers claim they want Vengeance yet not enough of them are saying this to make the campaign function, much less make it competitive.
Give it a rest Zos, and focus again on Greyhost. This is ridiculous.BardokRedSnow wrote: »I popped in rq to see how the Vengeance was Coming along:
And here's how the last Greyhost campaign went:
Despite all the chest pounding and boasting in this thread from the Vengeance fans, it is on day two already a dead campaign. Everyone is seemingly just logging in on their ep toons to take everything, so much that while ep is over 4K points already, everyone else is under 1k. Thats pretty telling. And yes I know it resets early, even with the math incorporating this, this is really really bad, and in fact if it wasnt regularly resetting, the difference would be even greater.
This campaign is actually deader than Ravenwatch and Blackreach, impressive. And Zos decided to halt our very competitive, very active Greyhost pvp, for this. Pvers claim they want Vengeance yet not enough of them are saying this to make the campaign function, much less make it competitive.
Give it a rest Zos, and focus again on Greyhost. This is ridiculous.BardokRedSnow wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »
So all this hate and you've never even played it.BardokRedSnow wrote: »No, because I don't play it.
Before Vengeance came out I was a hater. I thought it sounded as dumb as No Proc Ravenwatch. But after playing it I saw the potential. Will it live up to that? Idk, it hasn't yet.
I did on the first test, for an hour, then never bothered to again. It was a zerg fest, and judging from the pictures of the campaign score and the map being all red every time I go in to see it, it still is.
And judging from my friends list going from almost 30 every day online out of 100 to under 7, I'm not the only one. People don't need to invest hours of time to decide what they like, they will simply not play it, and the game dies.
I encourage Zos to remember this with so many game developers trying the same thing, telling customers "just try it please" instead of listening to what they want in the first place. The game dies, and thats it.
Also considering most of the vengeance enjoyers stop playing themselves after a day or two, it doesn't seem like I'm missing out much.
Dedicated Greyhost players play every single day, at least in one time block, especially primetime. Vengeance will never be that, it hasn't been since the first test once everyone realized that zerging is 99 percent of the game mode and nothing else.
Cyrodiil PVP in general is a zerg fest. It doesn't matter what mode it is.
There's zerging players, and then there's zerging empty keeps.
These 2 cherrypicket Screenshots are not really comparable.
While Grey Host score is over a duration of 20 days, Vengeance score from screenshot doesnt cover even one day but only 12 hours. Factions often hold map at different times of the day, but if you play only in the evening you will only see the score of EP taking the map at noon but not of DC taking it at night and AD in early morning because score resets at noon. EP emperors didnt last for more than a few hours before getting dethroned.
It is also nonsense to compare Vengeance score with GreyHost rather than with the campaigns it is supposed to replace. GreyHost has only a third of Vengeance capacity but majority of Cyrodiils playerbase and is therefore easy to fill. If a faction has more players they dont fit into GreyHost and have to play Cyrodiil in other campaign or not at all.
Vengeance has the players and unbalance from queue and other campaigns too.
GreyHost having faction scores so close together is extremely rare either.
Vengeance also didn’t receive low pop and low score bonus yet, otherwise for each of them DC and AD would have received 150% more score and 110% more ap which would have motivated more players on these factions to play and the score would be similar or better than in BR/RW.
The problem is not normalized stats but missing low pop/score bonus and unreachable pop cap.
Don’t see how posting screenshots of the first few days of Vengeance is cherry picking. I would say that if @BardokRedSnow was championing Vengeance and posted screenshots of the weekend when Vengeance was the only PvP open, then yea I’d agree.Edited by SneaK on 29 April 2026 13:58"IMO"Aldmeri Dominion1 Nightblade - 1 Templar - 7 Hybrid Mutt Abominations1 -
Iriidius✭✭✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »I popped in rq to see how the Vengeance was Coming along:
And here's how the last Greyhost campaign went:
Despite all the chest pounding and boasting in this thread from the Vengeance fans, it is on day two already a dead campaign. Everyone is seemingly just logging in on their ep toons to take everything, so much that while ep is over 4K points already, everyone else is under 1k. Thats pretty telling. And yes I know it resets early, even with the math incorporating this, this is really really bad, and in fact if it wasnt regularly resetting, the difference would be even greater.
This campaign is actually deader than Ravenwatch and Blackreach, impressive. And Zos decided to halt our very competitive, very active Greyhost pvp, for this. Pvers claim they want Vengeance yet not enough of them are saying this to make the campaign function, much less make it competitive.
Give it a rest Zos, and focus again on Greyhost. This is ridiculous.BardokRedSnow wrote: »I popped in rq to see how the Vengeance was Coming along:
And here's how the last Greyhost campaign went:
Despite all the chest pounding and boasting in this thread from the Vengeance fans, it is on day two already a dead campaign. Everyone is seemingly just logging in on their ep toons to take everything, so much that while ep is over 4K points already, everyone else is under 1k. Thats pretty telling. And yes I know it resets early, even with the math incorporating this, this is really really bad, and in fact if it wasnt regularly resetting, the difference would be even greater.
This campaign is actually deader than Ravenwatch and Blackreach, impressive. And Zos decided to halt our very competitive, very active Greyhost pvp, for this. Pvers claim they want Vengeance yet not enough of them are saying this to make the campaign function, much less make it competitive.
Give it a rest Zos, and focus again on Greyhost. This is ridiculous.BardokRedSnow wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »
So all this hate and you've never even played it.BardokRedSnow wrote: »No, because I don't play it.
Before Vengeance came out I was a hater. I thought it sounded as dumb as No Proc Ravenwatch. But after playing it I saw the potential. Will it live up to that? Idk, it hasn't yet.
I did on the first test, for an hour, then never bothered to again. It was a zerg fest, and judging from the pictures of the campaign score and the map being all red every time I go in to see it, it still is.
And judging from my friends list going from almost 30 every day online out of 100 to under 7, I'm not the only one. People don't need to invest hours of time to decide what they like, they will simply not play it, and the game dies.
I encourage Zos to remember this with so many game developers trying the same thing, telling customers "just try it please" instead of listening to what they want in the first place. The game dies, and thats it.
Also considering most of the vengeance enjoyers stop playing themselves after a day or two, it doesn't seem like I'm missing out much.
Dedicated Greyhost players play every single day, at least in one time block, especially primetime. Vengeance will never be that, it hasn't been since the first test once everyone realized that zerging is 99 percent of the game mode and nothing else.
Cyrodiil PVP in general is a zerg fest. It doesn't matter what mode it is.
There's zerging players, and then there's zerging empty keeps.
These 2 cherrypicket Screenshots are not really comparable.
While Grey Host score is over a duration of 20 days, Vengeance score from screenshot doesnt cover even one day but only 12 hours. Factions often hold map at different times of the day, but if you play only in the evening you will only see the score of EP taking the map at noon but not of DC taking it at night and AD in early morning because score resets at noon. EP emperors didnt last for more than a few hours before getting dethroned.
It is also nonsense to compare Vengeance score with GreyHost rather than with the campaigns it is supposed to replace. GreyHost has only a third of Vengeance capacity but majority of Cyrodiils playerbase and is therefore easy to fill. If a faction has more players they dont fit into GreyHost and have to play Cyrodiil in other campaign or not at all.
Vengeance has the players and unbalance from queue and other campaigns too.
GreyHost having faction scores so close together is extremely rare either.
Vengeance also didn’t receive low pop and low score bonus yet, otherwise for each of them DC and AD would have received 150% more score and 110% more ap which would have motivated more players on these factions to play and the score would be similar or better than in BR/RW.
The problem is not normalized stats but missing low pop/score bonus and unreachable pop cap.
Don’t see how posting screenshots of the first few days of Vengeance is cherry picking. I would say that if @BardokRedSnow was championing Vengeance and posted screenshots of the weekend when Vengeance was the only PvP open, then yea I’d agree.
99% of the time the score in GreyHost is not as close as on Bardoks picture.
Vengeance Screenshot covers only half a day. When the other factions dominate Vengeance the other half of the day and reach a similar score as pact at end of 1 day campaign it wont be visible on bardoks screenshot covers only half the day.
If you take score from a 12 hour periods in
Blackreach and Ravenwatch that Vengeance is supposed to replace you might find many that are loopsided just as much or even more than Vengeance and in GreyHost, but rather than those Bardoknrather uses an exceptionally balanced score of a campaign that Vengeance isnt even supposed to replace.PC EU0 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭…BardokRedSnow wrote: »I popped in rq to see how the Vengeance was Coming along:
And here's how the last Greyhost campaign went:
Despite all the chest pounding and boasting in this thread from the Vengeance fans, it is on day two already a dead campaign. Everyone is seemingly just logging in on their ep toons to take everything, so much that while ep is over 4K points already, everyone else is under 1k. Thats pretty telling. And yes I know it resets early, even with the math incorporating this, this is really really bad, and in fact if it wasnt regularly resetting, the difference would be even greater.
This campaign is actually deader than Ravenwatch and Blackreach, impressive. And Zos decided to halt our very competitive, very active Greyhost pvp, for this. Pvers claim they want Vengeance yet not enough of them are saying this to make the campaign function, much less make it competitive.
Give it a rest Zos, and focus again on Greyhost. This is ridiculous.BardokRedSnow wrote: »I popped in rq to see how the Vengeance was Coming along:
And here's how the last Greyhost campaign went:
Despite all the chest pounding and boasting in this thread from the Vengeance fans, it is on day two already a dead campaign. Everyone is seemingly just logging in on their ep toons to take everything, so much that while ep is over 4K points already, everyone else is under 1k. Thats pretty telling. And yes I know it resets early, even with the math incorporating this, this is really really bad, and in fact if it wasnt regularly resetting, the difference would be even greater.
This campaign is actually deader than Ravenwatch and Blackreach, impressive. And Zos decided to halt our very competitive, very active Greyhost pvp, for this. Pvers claim they want Vengeance yet not enough of them are saying this to make the campaign function, much less make it competitive.
Give it a rest Zos, and focus again on Greyhost. This is ridiculous.BardokRedSnow wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »
So all this hate and you've never even played it.BardokRedSnow wrote: »No, because I don't play it.
Before Vengeance came out I was a hater. I thought it sounded as dumb as No Proc Ravenwatch. But after playing it I saw the potential. Will it live up to that? Idk, it hasn't yet.
I did on the first test, for an hour, then never bothered to again. It was a zerg fest, and judging from the pictures of the campaign score and the map being all red every time I go in to see it, it still is.
And judging from my friends list going from almost 30 every day online out of 100 to under 7, I'm not the only one. People don't need to invest hours of time to decide what they like, they will simply not play it, and the game dies.
I encourage Zos to remember this with so many game developers trying the same thing, telling customers "just try it please" instead of listening to what they want in the first place. The game dies, and thats it.
Also considering most of the vengeance enjoyers stop playing themselves after a day or two, it doesn't seem like I'm missing out much.
Dedicated Greyhost players play every single day, at least in one time block, especially primetime. Vengeance will never be that, it hasn't been since the first test once everyone realized that zerging is 99 percent of the game mode and nothing else.
Cyrodiil PVP in general is a zerg fest. It doesn't matter what mode it is.
There's zerging players, and then there's zerging empty keeps.
These 2 cherrypicket Screenshots are not really comparable.
While Grey Host score is over a duration of 20 days, Vengeance score from screenshot doesnt cover even one day but only 12 hours. Factions often hold map at different times of the day, but if you play only in the evening you will only see the score of EP taking the map at noon but not of DC taking it at night and AD in early morning because score resets at noon. EP emperors didnt last for more than a few hours before getting dethroned.
It is also nonsense to compare Vengeance score with GreyHost rather than with the campaigns it is supposed to replace. GreyHost has only a third of Vengeance capacity but majority of Cyrodiils playerbase and is therefore easy to fill. If a faction has more players they dont fit into GreyHost and have to play Cyrodiil in other campaign or not at all.
Vengeance has the players and unbalance from queue and other campaigns too.
GreyHost having faction scores so close together is extremely rare either.
Vengeance also didn’t receive low pop and low score bonus yet, otherwise for each of them DC and AD would have received 150% more score and 110% more ap which would have motivated more players on these factions to play and the score would be similar or better than in BR/RW.
The problem is not normalized stats but missing low pop/score bonus and unreachable pop cap.
Don’t see how posting screenshots of the first few days of Vengeance is cherry picking. I would say that if @BardokRedSnow was championing Vengeance and posted screenshots of the weekend when Vengeance was the only PvP open, then yea I’d agree.
99% of the time the score in GreyHost is not as close as on Bardoks picture.
Well yea, I mentioned this several times. The reason it's like this now is because the DK refresh brought back tons of players who left due to subclassing, and those that left even well before that. As well as new players we've seen that have never pvp'd before.
I also stated it was a shame to see all that returning interest betrayed one month after the update for an entire week of yet another vengeance test. They killed their own momentum and didn't have to.Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0