JohnRingo wrote: »

(Sigh)

I can sit on the PTS testing whether the Maarselok+MDW or Serpents+BFB version of an 8k dps pressure StamSorc is better at deterministically deleting helpless opponents from an off screen ambush. Do I care which one of these I'd end up using? No. They do the same thing.

A lot of people really enjoy Vengeance. How and why would anyone' want to blame them for this? That's the whole point of the game. And a lot of people who will not PvP anymore at all are playing Vengeance. I was there myself, it was busy. The ill tempered people from GH were there too because they were still whispering their vitriol (I dont care either, I have thick skin). Familiar names and faces as well as the 'purple team' (I was playing mostly AD), so im not sure why everyone is saying people aren't playing it.

None of my Guildies had a bad thing to say about it. I was even grouped with strangers all week over there and they were having fun and enjoying it. It isn't 'just PvE' either, its people I see in BGs and GH too. Its easy to spot them and they stick out like a sore thumb.

The only issue I see is, as others have pointed out is people continually switch alliances if things aren't going their way. Aside from that, I dont really want to offer much of a take on it until after it's over. I was surprised more than anything with how it's going. More to come regarding this.

Vengeance also stripped away my ESO+ subscription, my hours in ESO and my spendings on crown store.

xylena wrote: »

Speak for yourself, GH gets stale for me in about 20 minutes. Speaking of rapidly dying: how do you think those noobs enjoying Vengeance are gonna feel when they come to GH and get instantly deleted over and over and over and over, or when they learn what a "ball group" is...

What does that have to do with Vengeance being dead right now? GH getting stale for you doesn’t mean it gets that way for everyone.

As for the people enjoying Vengeance, let them continue to enjoy Vengeance. I never said I don’t want people to enjoy the game mode. I’m just arguing that it isn’t this monumentally beloved mode that will serve the deathblow to GH for all time.

People want something different. For years now, we've all had to adapt to a few players, namely bombers, ball groups and a couple PvP Guilds having all the power over the game. Power enough to almost make them like having Admin rights, you could say. And now, people are choosing something else, other than to play 'their' little game.

Is it them mad cause they've had their way for so long or is it time that these elitist folks begin to adapt and start to learn the game, much like life itself, is not and never should have been all about them. 1 player, generally speaking an Emp, wiping two factions for several hours and not dying is the sort of thing, along with ball group and PvP Guild Elitism and abuse, is what gets you some Vengeance my friends. This is just like how we all had to 'adapt' and tolerate dealing with them and their passive-aggressive hostility and exploits, for years. Especially hostility towards solo players and others who don't just take a back seat to them and their Guild. We're not going back to that. We are taking the power back, that can include Cyrodiil or it could exclude it altogether.

And so, with all that said, Vengeance is here and now it's time for something different; it has to as things cannot continue as they are. Or you can complain about it and stand in the middle of the desert while the world shifts to something else, anything else other than what we've all had to deal with. And many of us are tired of playing someone else's game and not a game that's for everyone. It's not fair to everyone else and it's not fair to ESO to put a few up on a pedestal for using lazy exploits and being abusive to other players. Make no mistake, my intention is not to punish, but yet, this situation has been so out of control for so long now that fixing it is going to be more painful than it ever should have been.

And quite frankly I am done with shouldering blame and wrath from this whole thing when all I wanted to do was join Cyrodiil and support my faction. I did not ask for what I got so no there will be no shoulder to cry on from this end. Is it the loudest can't handle a challenge now? I just don't see why everyone else has to be punished and put in our place by these folks. It's needs to stop and it's for this reason that Vengeance is long overdue. If you don't like this arrangement then maybe some folks should have been nicer and should have done the right thing, but all they really did was whatever they wanted to do and as much as they could get away with, especially in their treatment of others who were either better players than they or didn't need them or their Guild and they couldn't stand that fact. Some people have to have everything their way.

Regardless of Vengeance success, we will remember; so, it's not just me who feels this way about things.

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

People want something different. For years now, we've all had to adapt to a few players, namely bombers, ball groups and a couple PvP Guilds having all the power over the game. Power enough to almost make them like having Admin rights, you could say. And now, people are choosing something else, other than to play 'their' little game.

Is it them mad cause they've had their way for so long or is it time that these elitist folks begin to adapt and start to learn the game, much like life itself, is not and never should have been all about them. 1 player, generally speaking an Emp, wiping two factions for several hours and not dying is the sort of thing, along with ball group and PvP Guild Elitism and abuse, is what gets you some Vengeance my friends. This is just like how we all had to 'adapt' and tolerate dealing with them and their passive-aggressive hostility and exploits, for years. Especially hostility towards solo players and others who don't just take a back seat to them and their Guild. We're not going back to that. We are taking the power back, that can include Cyrodiil or it could exclude it altogether.

And so, with all that said, Vengeance is here and now it's time for something different; it has to as things cannot continue as they are. Or you can complain about it and stand in the middle of the desert while the world shifts to something else, anything else other than what we've all had to deal with. And many of us are tired of playing someone else's game and not a game that's for everyone. It's not fair to everyone else and it's not fair to ESO to put a few up on a pedestal for using lazy exploits and being abusive to other players. Make no mistake, my intention is not to punish, but yet, this situation has been so out of control for so long now that fixing it is going to be more painful than it ever should have been.

And quite frankly I am done with shouldering blame and wrath from this whole thing when all I wanted to do was join Cyrodiil and support my faction. I did not ask for what I got so no there will be no shoulder to cry on from this end. Is it the loudest can't handle a challenge now? I just don't see why everyone else has to be punished and put in our place by these folks. It's needs to stop and it's for this reason that Vengeance is long overdue. If you don't like this arrangement then maybe some folks should have been nicer and should have done the right thing, but all they really did was whatever they wanted to do and as much as they could get away with, especially in their treatment of others who were either better players than they or didn't need them or their Guild and they couldn't stand that fact. Some people have to have everything their way.

Regardless of Vengeance success, we will remember; so, it's not just me who feels this way about things.

tl;dr

That's fine. If you have no time for me then I won't bother wasting anymore of my time either. The problem is not going to just go away just because you want me to go away. If I can't get 5 minutes, then don't expect another 5/10 years of no change and those of us who do put the time in to provide feedback continuing to be ignored and treated like this. Not in Cyrodiil.

Why you quote my entire post if you're not willing to read it?

L_Nici wrote: »

Its not just that they disable Grey Host in that week once more, but also with Update 50 and the big PvP reward system, the first 30!!!! ranks are basically Vengeance only rewards. They keep forcing it onto us, they do not listen, that the majority of PvP players do not want Vengeance. Its just PvE people liking it, because then they can just jump in, change nothing and be good at it.
When Vengeance PvE rules for Trifecta btw? I don't want to change my build for that and I expect to be able to do it with absolutely no effort, thank you.

It will be interesting to see, and I doubt they will track metrics, though they should, when vengeance comes out, what the peak population is, and how long it takes to obtain the rewards so you never have to log into vengeance again. they would see the population swan dive off a cliff. Instead people will just queue for grey host & use a timer on their phone to prevent time outs. once the majority of the people have the rewards, should they care about them, the amount of available players to kill in vengeance will likely drastically decrease providing it to be a worse experience than grey host. this fills me with joy.

The only thing good about vengeance is the re-usable camps.

.

albertberku wrote: »

Don't you all play almost the exact same build every patch in GH which is the simply the meta of that patch?

Congrats, you are in the lucky 99% of GH players with your very own theorycrafted build!

no.... and its so cringe seeing yall repeat this lie here.

if that were the case there wouldn't be so many puggles getting farmed, and complaining about it here. And trust me, for every one of us farming you, theres even better players that can and have farmed us.

Imagine if cross-platform were happening right now. What do you think the que time to GH would look like then? What differences would you see in Vengeance?

Yeah of course you won't post it. I dont need a research to know, i have eyes, death recaps and combat logs. Now continue your talk about build diversity in GH. That is all i am going to add about this topic.

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

No, because I don't play it.

So all this hate and you've never even played it.

Before Vengeance came out I was a hater. I thought it sounded as dumb as No Proc Ravenwatch. But after playing it I saw the potential. Will it live up to that? Idk, it hasn't yet.

I did on the first test, for an hour, then never bothered to again. It was a zerg fest, and judging from the pictures of the campaign score and the map being all red every time I go in to see it, it still is.

And judging from my friends list going from almost 30 every day online out of 100 to under 7, I'm not the only one. People don't need to invest hours of time to decide what they like, they will simply not play it, and the game dies.

I encourage Zos to remember this with so many game developers trying the same thing, telling customers "just try it please" instead of listening to what they want in the first place. The game dies, and thats it.

Also considering most of the vengeance enjoyers stop playing themselves after a day or two, it doesn't seem like I'm missing out much.

Dedicated Greyhost players play every single day, at least in one time block, especially primetime. Vengeance will never be that, it hasn't been since the first test once everyone realized that zerging is 99 percent of the game mode and nothing else.

Cyrodiil PVP in general is a zerg fest. It doesn't matter what mode it is.

SirAxen wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

No, because I don't play it.

So all this hate and you've never even played it.

Before Vengeance came out I was a hater. I thought it sounded as dumb as No Proc Ravenwatch. But after playing it I saw the potential. Will it live up to that? Idk, it hasn't yet.

I did on the first test, for an hour, then never bothered to again. It was a zerg fest, and judging from the pictures of the campaign score and the map being all red every time I go in to see it, it still is.

And judging from my friends list going from almost 30 every day online out of 100 to under 7, I'm not the only one. People don't need to invest hours of time to decide what they like, they will simply not play it, and the game dies.

I encourage Zos to remember this with so many game developers trying the same thing, telling customers "just try it please" instead of listening to what they want in the first place. The game dies, and thats it.

Also considering most of the vengeance enjoyers stop playing themselves after a day or two, it doesn't seem like I'm missing out much.

Dedicated Greyhost players play every single day, at least in one time block, especially primetime. Vengeance will never be that, it hasn't been since the first test once everyone realized that zerging is 99 percent of the game mode and nothing else.

Cyrodiil PVP in general is a zerg fest. It doesn't matter what mode it is.

There's zerging players, and then there's zerging empty keeps.

Poss wrote: »

Skill issue

Why did you even clip this? Judging from the title, this was sent straight to the forums too lol

The classic “I died in Cyrodiil pls fix ZoS”

Now watch the video where he threatens to report someone on the ENEMY faction for bashing him or not knowing Toppling Charge does.

DK hits hard and that's a totally rational thing to say this patch, but people playing victim more than they actually play ESO is something that I've seen too much from people on this game.

I don't mind the Vengeance "test" going on but I've never seen such a hostile casual community on the game and it's honestly starting to drive me away from it as someone who enjoys both sides of content.

albertberku wrote: »

Yeah of course you won't post it. I dont need a research to know, i have eyes, death recaps and combat logs. Now continue your talk about build diversity in GH. That is all i am going to add about this topic.

This isn't the nicest way to ask someone for their build, but my advice try slotting Vigor.

Wow, how diverse the builds in GH are actually. When it comes to talk everyone plays pure magsorcs and nightblades and stamsorcs and wardens. Interesting that you never see them in any of the PvP zones, when you are actually there. Beng a bad player, i might have not recognised them.

I am not asking for your builds, because i know already what you all play. I am just asking for some proof of what you are saying other than bunch of "trust me bro, we are the pvp ers in this game, but we can't share our secret diverse build and gameplay". Show us. Proove what you say. If i were to count your playtime on DK or subclassed DK with other damage lines this patch, it would be around 98%. Tell us it is wrong, and then ask yourself the same question when you are alone. Let me guess what you will all play with your diverse builds next patch. Werewolf?

Playing 1 hr on pure stamsorc near your castle and then spending whole patch in DK doesnt really count as "i play all builds". You play "all builds" but only when one of the builds again meta is. So, with all the meta changes you of course play all builds, because every patch meta build shifts to something completely different. So you take turns of builds, together and at the exact same time with all your pvp er buddies. This is your "build diversity". Use almost exact same or identical skill lines, and playstyle. Change one glyph from infused to bloodthirsty, use a set that gives 500 weapon dmg instead of 4k pen or a proc one. And then call it theorycrafting. Your build is diverse allright, but not from each other, just between different patches.

Tell me your most played build (just the skill lines) this patch and through the subclass ones prior. Let's be factual here.

I am saying that it is fine and i understand it and you are right 100%. I dont expect that there should be a build diversity since there is always a clear meta in ESO PvP. And if you dont play the meta, you are in very disadvantage. I understand this and have nothing against it. But why there is a talk about the "build diversity in GH" then? What kind of build diversity are we talking about here?

With how unbalanced everything is how can we expect build diversity in GH? For build diversity to exist in PvP, all builds have to perform similarly. Will this ever be possible in ESO PvP?

So, just in terms of build diversity, the most likely outcome is that Vengeance will have more build diversity than GH, because it will be more controlled with perks, loadouts and classes. And builds will be more balanced in comparison to each other just due to this single fact. Hence, people wont be punished that hard when playing a different build or playstyle.