Maintenance for the week of December 1:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – December 1
• NA megaservers for patch maintenance – December 3, 3:00AM EST (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 3, 8:00 UTC (3:00AM EST) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – December 1
• NA megaservers for patch maintenance – December 3, 3:00AM EST (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 3, 8:00 UTC (3:00AM EST) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
Community Update – Vengeance Testing & Cyrodiil
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xR3ACTORx✭✭✭ToddIngram wrote: »
Second, if nothing is special about ESO PvP we may as well play other games that have better performance and customer support.
This already happened on Xbox EU after the previous mayhem "test". If I have a look at my friendlist I can see many players who already moved over to other games like BF6 or Helldivers 2. Some are on NMS and never returned since then. I can still remember the deserted mayhem after vengeance when the people left.
Edited by xR3ACTORx on 28 November 2025 04:351 -
DraggimusSoul Shrivenis this some kinda retaliation for everyone laughing at the devs for their really embarrassing gameplay on that pvp stream9
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CaiWenji✭✭✭✭If Scenario 2 were to happen, I will up and quit then and there. No build diversity, no creativity, and most importantly no more fun! The only time I would ever come back is during the Anniversary Jubilee to get my current year's cake and to check again that if Scenario 2 did happen that it was then reverted.4 -
StihlReign✭✭✭✭✭is this some kinda retaliation Vengeance for everyone laughing at the devs for their really embarrassing gameplay on that pvp stream
Oooh, so irresistible...
"O divine art of subtlety and secrecy!
Through you we learn to be invisible, through you inaudible; and hence we can hold the enemy’s fate in our hands.” – Ch. VI, v. 8-9. — Master Sun Tzu
"You haven't beaten me you've sacrificed sure footing for a killing stroke." — Ra's al Ghul
He who is prudent and lies in wait for an enemy who is not, will be victorious — Master Sun Tzu
LoS2 -
Volkster✭✭Is this an example of the decoy effect? You guys offer two choices, with the second one being one no one would rightfully want, so people would be more accepting of the first option.6 -
LarsS✭✭✭✭✭Some numbers.
PC/EU all 3 alliances locked 1-2 hours on prime time on GH, the other campaigns are empty BR may reach 2 bars on on some alliances.
Considering numbers, on GH (120) and 300 on Vengeance. On last test Vengence were on 2 to 3 bars on all alliances (PC/EU) on prime time that is more participants than a locked GH.
There are still new people comming to cyro, but many leave again due to the huge power gap. It is not fun to be killed again and again by top level balls or small scaler groups.
It's up to everyone to guess how long the present pvp in Cyro will survive. To me the future looks bleak, so changes must be introduced.GM for The Daggerfall Authority EU PC2 -
Muizer✭✭✭✭✭
✭ToddIngram wrote: »It's impossible to not know that ZOS always said vengeance was just a test.
That is beside the point. I never said or implied that it was not a test. The difference is that some people just seem to have assumed without evidence that that meant 'for improvements to current cyrodiil'.
A far more consistent reading of the course of events is this:
1) ZOS decided to rebuild Cyrodiil PvP from the ground up, because they could not identify any 'silver bullets' to fix live.
2) In order to do that, they wanted to start with a version that they knew for certain would support the player counts they were aiming for.
3) For that they needed to run a base line test on the live servers
4) As usually new features that go live stay there with only small tweaks, they stressed the 'test' bit to death: don't worry this is not going to stay on live as is!
I don't recall them ever saying it was intended to learn things to apply to current cyrodiil. And frankly as an approach to developing a feature that would make 0 sense. They're at
5) iterate on the functioning basis to make Vengeance more feature rich, all the while continuing to test it for performance and acceptance.
Edited to be more constructive.Edited by Muizer on 28 November 2025 16:42Please stop making requests for game features. ZOS have enough bad ideas as it is!0 -
MorallyBipolar✭✭✭✭I just realized something very important to this discussion.
Vengeance 1 was sold to us as being a test system so they could gather data and improve normal live Cyrodiil.
With this post Jessica is saying ZOS will not be making any effort to improve normal live Cyrodiil at any point in the future and they're developing vengeance to probably replace grey host.
So the statement that vengeance was an effort to improve live Cyrodiil was never a true statement. ....just like we've been pointing out all along.
This.^
ZOS sold us on a "test" that was never a test. Vengeance was always intended to replace Cyrodiil PvP, as seems apparent when reading the OP. The statement that ZOS is never going to try to fix anything in normal live Grey Host is the same as saying vengeance will be the only option going forward at some point next year.
We know ZOS hasn't even been trying to improve performance in Grey Host now. They haven't even tried to limit heal stacking or removing the most offensive proc sets either. So they can't credibly say they've even tried.
Vengeance has been a betrayal of the PvP community from the onset. I'll never trust ZOS to be honest about anything going forward.1 -
MorallyBipolar✭✭✭✭[snip]
That's what I'll be doing. As will the only PvP guild still hanging on that I play with daily.
None of us will be playing vengeance now or ever again. If vengeance becomes mandated ESO may as well not even exist for us.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 28 November 2025 19:371 -
AngelA10S115✭✭Some more questions:
-What will happen to the other Cyrodiil campaigns in both scenario 1 and scenario 2? Will they keep existing, be removed, something else?
-How many resources have been spent over the years to try and get Cyrodiil working as intended? And will these resources now get allocated to more content/features, or will you still try to fix Cyrodiil going forward?
-Could a cause of the lag in Cyrodiil be the Imperial City still being linked to Cyrodiil? In the IC we still get messages about the scrolls/gates/etc in Cyrodiil there, even though the two should no longer be linked.
-What will happen in scenario 1 if due to playernumbers both vengeance and grey host end up with unhealthy/unsustainable populations? basically showing neither PvP mode was populair enough to begin with. (asking as some players are expressing boycotts for certain modes)
-You stated that in survey test 1 many players expressed their like for vengeance, was vengeance liked by enough players to have a healthy permanent/sustainable population for that mode?
There are players who enjoy vengeance, and you are actively trying to keep vengeance from them/have ZOS remove vengeance from the game. Which is just as bad as players who want your beloved Cyrodiil closed/removed! The more options for gameplay, the more players who can happily play what they want, and the more players who can play the modes that they want to play. Growing both the game and it's population.This statement from ZOS makes it clear those of us who despise vengeance and will never play any version of vengeance have only one option now:
We have to boycott participation in all vengeance going forward and hope ZOS figures out vengeance is a fail in every way.
This is absolutely the correct course of action at this point.
Besides that, boycotting vengeance will actually have the opposite effect. If enough grey host players go to vengeance, causing both vengeance and grey host to have unhealthy/unsustainable populations, the entire future of PvP in this game will be at risk. Making it seem like neither vengeance nor grey host have a place in this game's future, and I'm guessing you do not want that either.
I'll put it this way. If you tell a veteran PvP player that a decade of gear, CP, and build investment is now worthless under the Vengeance rule set, it’s the gaming equivalent of telling a long-term investor that their portfolio of ten years has suddenly gone to zero. The reaction is obvious: anger, disbelief, and a sense of being robbed. That player is probably NOT feeling cooperative.
So tell players who don't have 300 hours in PvP, optimized gear, and a high level not to even think about touching PvP. Like any game, if there isn't a constant flow of players, the game dies. everyone needs the opportunity to face any other player. Currently, if you don't have a meta build, you're more useless than a rock.2 -
xR3ACTORx✭✭✭AngelA10S115 wrote: »So tell players who don't have 300 hours in PvP, optimized gear, and a high level not to even think about touching PvP. Like any game, if there isn't a constant flow of players, the game dies. everyone needs the opportunity to face any other player. Currently, if you don't have a meta build, you're more useless than a rock.
Every pvp veteran started at zero.
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Major_Mangle✭✭✭✭✭AngelA10S115 wrote: »Some more questions:
-What will happen to the other Cyrodiil campaigns in both scenario 1 and scenario 2? Will they keep existing, be removed, something else?
-How many resources have been spent over the years to try and get Cyrodiil working as intended? And will these resources now get allocated to more content/features, or will you still try to fix Cyrodiil going forward?
-Could a cause of the lag in Cyrodiil be the Imperial City still being linked to Cyrodiil? In the IC we still get messages about the scrolls/gates/etc in Cyrodiil there, even though the two should no longer be linked.
-What will happen in scenario 1 if due to playernumbers both vengeance and grey host end up with unhealthy/unsustainable populations? basically showing neither PvP mode was populair enough to begin with. (asking as some players are expressing boycotts for certain modes)
-You stated that in survey test 1 many players expressed their like for vengeance, was vengeance liked by enough players to have a healthy permanent/sustainable population for that mode?
There are players who enjoy vengeance, and you are actively trying to keep vengeance from them/have ZOS remove vengeance from the game. Which is just as bad as players who want your beloved Cyrodiil closed/removed! The more options for gameplay, the more players who can happily play what they want, and the more players who can play the modes that they want to play. Growing both the game and it's population.This statement from ZOS makes it clear those of us who despise vengeance and will never play any version of vengeance have only one option now:
We have to boycott participation in all vengeance going forward and hope ZOS figures out vengeance is a fail in every way.
This is absolutely the correct course of action at this point.
Besides that, boycotting vengeance will actually have the opposite effect. If enough grey host players go to vengeance, causing both vengeance and grey host to have unhealthy/unsustainable populations, the entire future of PvP in this game will be at risk. Making it seem like neither vengeance nor grey host have a place in this game's future, and I'm guessing you do not want that either.
I'll put it this way. If you tell a veteran PvP player that a decade of gear, CP, and build investment is now worthless under the Vengeance rule set, it’s the gaming equivalent of telling a long-term investor that their portfolio of ten years has suddenly gone to zero. The reaction is obvious: anger, disbelief, and a sense of being robbed. That player is probably NOT feeling cooperative.
So tell players who don't have 300 hours in PvP, optimized gear, and a high level not to even think about touching PvP. Like any game, if there isn't a constant flow of players, the game dies. everyone needs the opportunity to face any other player. Currently, if you don't have a meta build, you're more useless than a rock.
If you expect to be on par with veterans as a new player in a 10 y/o + mmo, I don´t know what to say really. It´s some crazy entitlement to expect to be able to compete with people who has spend years playing this game.
P.S You know how you improve at a game?
You talk/interact with people, you play the game, you invest time into the game and stop treating the game like a single player game and eventually you will improve as long as you put the time and effort into it.Edited by Major_Mangle on 28 November 2025 19:11Ps4 EU 2016-2020
PC/EU: 2020 -2 -
xR3ACTORx✭✭✭alternatelder wrote: »
Dumbing down of gameplay mechanics over the time. Same strategy. Everyone knows ZOS is basically functioning as a holding for Bethesda.Edited by xR3ACTORx on 28 November 2025 19:170 -
dinokstrunz✭✭✭✭✭
✭Surprised you're still full steam ahead with vengeance. It's unwarranted. Just keep Cyrodiil as is, remove empty campaigns, go ahead with the smaller new feature planned for 2026.1 -
ZOS_IcymodGreetings,
As we've removed a few comments that were trolling and petitions/protests, this is a friendly reminder that comments need to adhere to our Community Rules to avoid thread derailment.- Petitions and Protests: We do not allow petitions or protests on our forums. Due to the fact that both promote the use of demands and replies that consist of “/signed” or little else, we feel that neither encourage nor allow for meaningful and constructive discussion. Instead of using a petition or protest, we recommend presenting your thoughts as a request or suggestion so everyone in the community can discuss it.
- Trolling or Baiting: The act of trolling is defined as something that is created for the intent to provoke conflict, shock others, or to elicit a strong negative or emotional reaction. It’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread, and find another discussion to participate in instead. It is also not constructive or helpful to publicly call out others and accuse them of trolling, or call them a troll—please refrain from doing so. If you genuinely believe someone is trolling, please report the post or thread to the ESO Team, and leave it at that.
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Frooke✭✭✭Let’s be realistic: a lag-free Cyrodiil is never going to work the way it is. The solution is to either shrink the map and reduce the population, or move to a fully capped system like Vengeance. Otherwise, we’ll always have this unfixable lag. Reducing Cyrodiil doesn’t solve the ballgroup problem — it might even make it worse, because they would dominate more easily. This could be avoided if group sizes were limited to a maximum of 4 players, but I prefer the idea of a Vengeance-style mode with precisely balanced classes (which is very far from what we currently have). If the classes were well balanced and we had a minimal customization option, it would already be fun, but the balance just doesn’t work0 -
AngelA10S115✭✭Major_Mangle wrote: »AngelA10S115 wrote: »Some more questions:
-What will happen to the other Cyrodiil campaigns in both scenario 1 and scenario 2? Will they keep existing, be removed, something else?
-How many resources have been spent over the years to try and get Cyrodiil working as intended? And will these resources now get allocated to more content/features, or will you still try to fix Cyrodiil going forward?
-Could a cause of the lag in Cyrodiil be the Imperial City still being linked to Cyrodiil? In the IC we still get messages about the scrolls/gates/etc in Cyrodiil there, even though the two should no longer be linked.
-What will happen in scenario 1 if due to playernumbers both vengeance and grey host end up with unhealthy/unsustainable populations? basically showing neither PvP mode was populair enough to begin with. (asking as some players are expressing boycotts for certain modes)
-You stated that in survey test 1 many players expressed their like for vengeance, was vengeance liked by enough players to have a healthy permanent/sustainable population for that mode?
There are players who enjoy vengeance, and you are actively trying to keep vengeance from them/have ZOS remove vengeance from the game. Which is just as bad as players who want your beloved Cyrodiil closed/removed! The more options for gameplay, the more players who can happily play what they want, and the more players who can play the modes that they want to play. Growing both the game and it's population.This statement from ZOS makes it clear those of us who despise vengeance and will never play any version of vengeance have only one option now:
We have to boycott participation in all vengeance going forward and hope ZOS figures out vengeance is a fail in every way.
This is absolutely the correct course of action at this point.
Besides that, boycotting vengeance will actually have the opposite effect. If enough grey host players go to vengeance, causing both vengeance and grey host to have unhealthy/unsustainable populations, the entire future of PvP in this game will be at risk. Making it seem like neither vengeance nor grey host have a place in this game's future, and I'm guessing you do not want that either.
I'll put it this way. If you tell a veteran PvP player that a decade of gear, CP, and build investment is now worthless under the Vengeance rule set, it’s the gaming equivalent of telling a long-term investor that their portfolio of ten years has suddenly gone to zero. The reaction is obvious: anger, disbelief, and a sense of being robbed. That player is probably NOT feeling cooperative.
So tell players who don't have 300 hours in PvP, optimized gear, and a high level not to even think about touching PvP. Like any game, if there isn't a constant flow of players, the game dies. everyone needs the opportunity to face any other player. Currently, if you don't have a meta build, you're more useless than a rock.
If you expect to be on par with veterans as a new player in a 10 y/o + mmo, I don´t know what to say really. It´s some crazy entitlement to expect to be able to compete with people who has spend years playing this game.
P.S You know how you improve at a game?
You talk/interact with people, you play the game, you invest time into the game and stop treating the game like a single player game and eventually you will improve as long as you put the time and effort into it.
Skill and statistical advantage are very different things. If a veteran and a new player face off in a match where only skill matters, the new player will obviously be humiliated, but might still be able to do something. However, in TESO, if an unoptimized player faces someone with a PvP setup, they simply won't be able to do anything. The new player could attack them all day without their opponent even moving and simply not do any damage.
Also, are you seriously saying that if you haven't played hundreds of hours, you shouldn't participate in PvP? Not everyone wants to invest hundreds of hours in the game just to try PvP, but that's okay. I understand that you like the current PvP system. The problem is that, if things continue this way, it's going to disappear, and to prevent that, we need more people to be able to enjoy PvP.2 -
LastN0vemberSoul ShrivenI’ve played in Cyrodiil since 2016 and I sincerely hope that Grayhost can stay. I’m curious if it’s possible to understand if and how coding errors and bugs are being looked at from the base engine level as some of the glitches that come from sustained combat. Things like 40k day duration debuffs, 0s left debuffs that get stuck, perma YB healing orb synergy glitches, weird lag load screens at Nikel and Sejanus, the colloquial Ash till you Crash acknowledgement of weird and sad play ending server 307 booted and Q inducing pain. Or the map bugs that let you fall through the floor or phase into buildings where you have to pray to get out of combat to use the unstuck feature. Or why we need 20 something UDP/TCP/ ports open to facilitate connection and reduce packet loss. It just seems like even underneath it all there’s some kind of fundamental issue of getting data from / to client hosts and server performance showing red flags. I get the desire to pull everything away and put it back but are we really solving the problem or asking the wrong questions?
Subclassing has been fun but unfortunately it has led to the top 80% of high damage output / best builds being less than a handful of meta builds and cookie cutter combos that lead to players getting bursted down. While you can hone skills to a degree it seems strange that damage sets are always getting nerfed or skills adjusted and changed but the tank sets and comp play continue to allow nearly unkillable individuals to troll the map or ball groups to mercilessly control the map and faction play. Sure vengeance makes this impossible but it seems to do so without keeping the parts of ESO that make it unique and special. Isn’t there a way to do both? are we willing to actually do the work for that? Are we surveying ALL players to get their feedback or just cherry picking what we want to see?
I hope the devs see just how much time and energy players put into GH, for some it’s quite literally their day job. All we’d really want is to patch the same bugs we’ve complained about for years instead of reinventing the wheel and taking away what we love.1 -
Erickson9610✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes. Trust is gone. I really hope TES6 and FO5 won't be messed up.
Why should we expect those games at all? ESO is the future of The Elder Scrolls the way FO76 is the future of Fallout. And we already know how the latest singleplayer RPG from Bethesda turned out.PC/NA — Lone Werewolf, the EP Templar Werewolf
Werewolf Should be Allowed to Sneak
Please give us Werewolf Skill Styles (for customizing our fur color), Grimoires/Scribing skills (to fill in the holes in our builds), and Companions (to transform with).0 -
alternatelder✭✭✭✭✭
✭alternatelder wrote: »
Dumbing down of gameplay mechanics over the time. Same strategy. Everyone knows ZOS is basically functioning as a holding for Bethesda.
Zenimax media is the parent company for Bethesda and Zenimax Online Studios...Zos likely will have no part in ES6 or Fo5.0