[Suggestion] Change Undaunted Dailies to not require specific dungeons

illutian · November 1

It's rather silly that we're punished for doing the Undaunted dailies because of how the Random Dungeon and Specific Dungeon queue appear to work; I get Random queue pops far faster than Specific queue pops. Which implies there's two separate pools.

Instead, why not treat it similar to these Writhing Wall event dailies. Where you pick up a singular quest to complete a dungeon of your choice (ie you can use the Random queue). That rewards a chest that gives you, say, 2 keys. Then there's follow up dailies that, again, task you with finishing any dungeon. But these reward a chest that gives only 1 key. Repeat these follow up quests for however many you wish players to be able to do per day.

This post comes after being in the queue for Graven Deep for over 2hrs, and not once has it popped.
PS: Since this involves a 'game system' (daily quests) I posted this here.

Soarora · November 1

You get random queue pops faster than specific queue pops because there's probably more people queueing specific dungeons than random. You can sometimes tell who determined the dungeon you're in (when you do random) because they'll say they need quest or need a certain piece of gear. People are currently busy with real life, writhing wall, and witches festival and thus may not be doing as many dungeons. Graven Deep is also not very popular (which I don't understand, it's awesome!).

Pledges should not be vague dailies. The specificity of pledges pushes players to try various dungeons and opens opportunity for players who need a veteran or hard mode clear to get seasoned players into a run (the reward being keys). I do agree with a notion that has been brought up a few times, though, and that is giving us another DLC pledge giver. This way, pledge days can be 1 entire DLC at a time.

illutian · November 1

Soarora wrote: »

-snip-

At the very least I wish they'd put those in Specific in with Random. I dropped Specific and went with Random...got a pop in about 20 minutes, as DPS.

...Graven had total around 2hrs 40min.

So it seems to me to be pretty obvious that Specific looks to pair you with others that are specifically looking for that dungeon.

And this isn't unusual. Literally every game I have every played that had a "Random Dungeon Finder" system. Appears to put people, who look for a specific dungeon, into their own queue.

As for rewards....I have like 118 keys. Most of them have come from the Golden Pursuit. I've been playing (off/on) since the game launched. And it specifically comes down to being unable to get 'queue pops' for the Undaunted requested dungeons.

I'm working on Scribing now that I've unlocked all skill trees for subclassing; can finally focus on 'a' character to "finish". So I'm, once again, being reminded of these bottlenecks and wondering why they still exist.

(I know I can use other methods for the scribing glyphs; just looking to maximize the acquisition rate.)

INM · November 1

What nonsense it is? These queues are already combined, specific dungeons take more time because you have a smaller pool of players available - people queued for random or for this specific dungeon for specific queue VS people queued for random or any specific dungeon (basically any group with an open slot).

Turning pledges into "do any dungeon" would turn them into "do FG1" immediately, which mean that finding a group for a specific dungeon in a dungeon finder would be even harder (especially for DLC dungeon). The whole purpose of pledges is to help people to get into a specific dungeon, and the whole purpose of random queue is to help to fill groups looking for a specific dungeon.

illutian · November 3

INM wrote: »

These queues are already combined

people queued for random or for this specific dungeon for specific queue VS people queued for random or any specific dungeon (basically any group with an open slot).

So...you're saying there are two separate queues.

Turning pledges into "do any dungeon" would turn them into "do FG1" immediately, which mean that finding a group for a specific dungeon in a dungeon finder would be even harder (especially for DLC dungeon). The whole purpose of pledges is to help people to get into a specific dungeon, and the whole purpose of random queue is to help to fill groups looking for a specific dungeon.

Back in the day, you'd see a horde of players in Grahtwood's Undaunted camp spamming "LFG [undaunted quest dungeon]". Now you don't.

And I remind you I spent over 2hrs trying to get a specific dungeon for the Undaunted quest. Before giving up and just doing a couple Random Dungeon queues. So the "purpose of pledges is to help people to get into a specific dungeon" is BS.

The game has evolved way beyond what it was when the Undaunted quests were implemented (pretty sure 'at launch' or very near it). - Heck, it's been awhile. But I'm fairly certain they use to award the chests and you'd RNGesus-pray you'd get the item from the set you wanted.

So it's time for the Undaunted dailies to do the same [evolve].

PS: Right now there's 3 others standing in the Grahtwood Undaunted camp...THREE. There would be two dozen or more 'back in the day'; all in /say looking for a group to run the associated dungeons. - Oh, an there's NO ONE in the Group Finder. So "miss me" on that suggestion.

Soarora · November 3

illutian wrote: »

PS: Right now there's 3 others standing in the Grahtwood Undaunted camp...THREE. There would be two dozen or more 'back in the day'; all in /say looking for a group to run the associated dungeons. - Oh, an there's NO ONE in the Group Finder. So "miss me" on that suggestion.

There's two events going on right now and passives are bugged and damage is bugged and animations look wonky and it was just a major holiday. I'm also experiencing a dead night time Grahtwood and queue which isn't particularly normal. It's probably an outlier and people will come back when writhing wall is done.

INM · November 4

illutian wrote: »

So...you're saying there are two separate queues.

There are 2 separate queues that draw from the same pool of players, is that a hard concept to grasp? 2 players queues for veteran Graven Deep, 2 players queued for veteran random -> 4 players ended up in a single group.

illutian wrote: »

The game has evolved way beyond what it was when the Undaunted quests were implemented (pretty sure 'at launch' or very near it). - Heck, it's been awhile. But I'm fairly certain they use to award the chests and you'd RNGesus-pray you'd get the item from the set you wanted.

So it's time for the Undaunted dailies to do the same [evolve].

PS: Right now there's 3 others standing in the Grahtwood Undaunted camp...THREE. There would be two dozen or more 'back in the day'; all in /say looking for a group to run the associated dungeons. - Oh, an there's NO ONE in the Group Finder. So "miss me" on that suggestion.

Kinda, ZoS killed pledges, veteran players don't do pledges anymore since there is nothing interesting for them, plus curating key drops (meaning shortening the lifespan of pledges), plus DLC dungeons requiring plus/purchase, plus target audience change, plus general population decline. Pledges are outlived their purposes and ZoS didn't provide any alternatives aside from occasional events and random dungeons. Changing pledges to "do any dungeon" will just make it worse. They need to give new purpose to pledges. Would be good to implement some cosmetic rewards you can buy with keys or something like that.

BTW, speaking of random dungeon, you can clearly see how they evolved. Their purpose was to populate groups in need. Now it's fake-fiesta and "I'm out of here if DLC dungeon"

illutian · November 5

INM wrote: »

-snip so people can keep track-

These queues are already combined, specific dungeons take more time because you have a smaller pool of players available - people queued for random or for this specific dungeon for specific queue VS people queued for random or any specific dungeon (basically any group with an open slot).

I read this to say people using Random are not being mixed with people using Specific. The use of "verse" is used to denote separate outcomes/options/choices/sides.

----

In practice, it shouldn't take any longer to get a Random queue as it does to get a Specific queue.

ex: You don't care what dungeon you get; just want to run one. I care, because I have a specific quest for one. So I queue up for single dungeon, while you queue up for 'any'. Why doesn't the system put you in the group forming around my specific selection.
...like Specific should get priority. Because 'Random' doesn't care what dungeon.

They need to give new purpose to pledges.

Only if they change it so you can get the keys from "do any dungeon" quests. Why am I stuck on that? Because why aren't people running Pledges anymore? Because no one needs them. What do you think will happen once the 'new stuff' is acquired?
...we're just moving the Finish Line to keep the current iteration viable.

Changing pledges to "do any dungeon" will just make it worse.

HOW?! How the flimmings does it get WORSE than NOT GETTING TO FINISH THE QUEST IN THE FIRST PLACE. Is Zos going to start deleting my keys if they change the Undaunted pledge to "do any dungeon"????

peacenote · November 5

illutian wrote: »

Changing pledges to "do any dungeon" will just make it worse.

HOW?! How the flimmings does it get WORSE than NOT GETTING TO FINISH THE QUEST IN THE FIRST PLACE. Is Zos going to start deleting my keys if they change the Undaunted pledge to "do any dungeon"????

LOL. Funny.

I think, silly as this may sound, it depends on the reason one decided to do the quest to begin with.

Some people do the pledge quest specifically for the rewards of the quest, be it transmutes or XP or Undaunted XP or keys. For those individuals, theoretically they may not care which dungeon and your point makes perfect sense.

Some people want to run a specific dungeon for something they'll get inside the dungeon (gear drops, skill point, achievement, simply getting to see it or try a build adjustment against a certain boss, etc.) and for those people, they will sometimes choose to do the pledge for that dungeon because they know on a pledge day, more people will be theoretically running that dungeon and the queue will be shorter. For those people, the reward of the quest is a side bonus, but the purpose of doing the pledge on the day of the pledge has more to do with running that specific dungeon, and for those people, making the quests to be generic will make the scenario of trying to gather a group together for a specific dungeon much worse.

I have been around since beta, which I say not as a flex but just for context, and most of the time, I am in group number two. I have plenty of keys and the pledge rotation is a way to nudge me into running a certain dungeon today over another. So from that perspective, the generic quest is unlikely to be something I go out of my way to grab. Literally even the mechanics of how pledges work now.. I go and grab three, which I can knock out back-to-back ... vs. how it would likely work.. go pick up one generic quest, run a dungeon, go back, pick it up again.. that "feels" very annoying and probably I wouldn't do it at all. Part of what I like about the pledges is the "three at once"

I hear you on the pain point you've raised for sure. This is just a little bit of perspective on why the suggestion might not be ideal for everyone. And, as others have mentioned, there are so many other problems that impact the various dungeon queue issues that what seems simple is a tough problem to tackle. I know I have a bit of fear that the devs will set out to solve one problem with the dungeon queues/pledges (shorten queues, address the lack of tanks, address the complaints of people not wanting to get DLCs in the random queue, address speed runners, address fake roles, etc. etc.) and it will have unintended consequences for players who are enjoying the content or features in a different way. I try to say hopeful but I've seen this too many times lately.

katanagirl1 · November 6

peacenote wrote: »

illutian wrote: »

Changing pledges to "do any dungeon" will just make it worse.

HOW?! How the flimmings does it get WORSE than NOT GETTING TO FINISH THE QUEST IN THE FIRST PLACE. Is Zos going to start deleting my keys if they change the Undaunted pledge to "do any dungeon"????

LOL. Funny.

I think, silly as this may sound, it depends on the reason one decided to do the quest to begin with.

Some people do the pledge quest specifically for the rewards of the quest, be it transmutes or XP or Undaunted XP or keys. For those individuals, theoretically they may not care which dungeon and your point makes perfect sense.

Some people want to run a specific dungeon for something they'll get inside the dungeon (gear drops, skill point, achievement, simply getting to see it or try a build adjustment against a certain boss, etc.) and for those people, they will sometimes choose to do the pledge for that dungeon because they know on a pledge day, more people will be theoretically running that dungeon and the queue will be shorter. For those people, the reward of the quest is a side bonus, but the purpose of doing the pledge on the day of the pledge has more to do with running that specific dungeon, and for those people, making the quests to be generic will make the scenario of trying to gather a group together for a specific dungeon much worse.

I have been around since beta, which I say not as a flex but just for context, and most of the time, I am in group number two. I have plenty of keys and the pledge rotation is a way to nudge me into running a certain dungeon today over another. So from that perspective, the generic quest is unlikely to be something I go out of my way to grab. Literally even the mechanics of how pledges work now.. I go and grab three, which I can knock out back-to-back ... vs. how it would likely work.. go pick up one generic quest, run a dungeon, go back, pick it up again.. that "feels" very annoying and probably I wouldn't do it at all. Part of what I like about the pledges is the "three at once"

I hear you on the pain point you've raised for sure. This is just a little bit of perspective on why the suggestion might not be ideal for everyone. And, as others have mentioned, there are so many other problems that impact the various dungeon queue issues that what seems simple is a tough problem to tackle. I know I have a bit of fear that the devs will set out to solve one problem with the dungeon queues/pledges (shorten queues, address the lack of tanks, address the complaints of people not wanting to get DLCs in the random queue, address speed runners, address fake roles, etc. etc.) and it will have unintended consequences for players who are enjoying the content or features in a different way. I try to say hopeful but I've seen this too many times lately.

I agree with you on several points. Even though I have been around for almost the whole time the game has been on console, I rarely run pledges because I don’t have a pre-made group to run them. So when pledges come up for specific dungeons that I might want to get some gear from, I will sometimes run them, or if I need keys. I also do them on new characters if I need skill points. Occasionally I will run random normals on new characters for the XP but that is much more rare than any other circumstance.

I usually grab all three pledges even though I don’t think I will do them all, if I have wait in queue for 20-30 minutes for each one I only get one done but if someone in the group wants to run more then I will.

Queueing for a specific dungeon that is not the pledge is pointless. You could spend the whole day waiting for a group.