chokehold wrote: »

Frankly, I would probably quit and not look back if subclassing was removed now.

You dont need to lie here they are not gonna chanhe it back anyway. And even IF, you would accept it like the good customers we all are and accept all the stuff being done to us 😘

johnjetau wrote: »

Besides PVP sub-classing isn't a issue for any other aspect of this game.
If you still want a "pure" class you can still have one and it won't effect your game play.
Just say what this is really about and that's PVP.

wont effect your gameplay except that pure classes are weaker 😂

I would say temporarily roll it back and rework it through pts cycles then reintroduce it to live when it’s actually ready, instead of “testing in prod” as it were.

CoronHR wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

CoronHR wrote: »

i think the cat's out of the bag and there's no going back.

that said, i hate the idea that we'll never get a new class, because with subclassing, that idea seems dead. so, if we had to do it all over again, i'd say no to subclassing and yes to a new class, but i just think it's too late

What exactly is the logic that subclassing means no new classes? That doesn't add up.

well, idk, it just seems unlikely now. maybe in a couple of years we'll have a new class? but i'm thinking -- why would zos release a new class? how would that work? a class that would immediately be subclassed? a class that would be a pure class that we'd play for a while, but would struggle to perform similarly as a subclass build? i feel like there are a lot of sticky points now to having a new class. they could release a new class, idk. but it immediately brings a lot of questions to my mind about how it would mix with subclassing. anyway, i'm sure there's an argument to be made that they'll of course release a new class, i just don't see it as being likely.

I totally agree with your comment here. What would a new class mean anymore? Just a shell to subclass with no identity.
New classes have always been strong at the start but it would not be fair on all other pure classes that have been nerfed to have a new pure class suddenly be the strongest.

Recent wrote: »

CoronHR wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

CoronHR wrote: »

i think the cat's out of the bag and there's no going back.

that said, i hate the idea that we'll never get a new class, because with subclassing, that idea seems dead. so, if we had to do it all over again, i'd say no to subclassing and yes to a new class, but i just think it's too late

What exactly is the logic that subclassing means no new classes? That doesn't add up.

well, idk, it just seems unlikely now. maybe in a couple of years we'll have a new class? but i'm thinking -- why would zos release a new class? how would that work? a class that would immediately be subclassed? a class that would be a pure class that we'd play for a while, but would struggle to perform similarly as a subclass build? i feel like there are a lot of sticky points now to having a new class. they could release a new class, idk. but it immediately brings a lot of questions to my mind about how it would mix with subclassing. anyway, i'm sure there's an argument to be made that they'll of course release a new class, i just don't see it as being likely.

I totally agree with your comment here. What would a new class mean anymore? Just a shell to subclass with no identity.
New classes have always been strong at the start but it would not be fair on all other pure classes that have been nerfed to have a new pure class suddenly be the strongest.

I will say that Subclassing does open one fun door for a new Class: each Class can now be considered as a set of three skill lines, so a new Class is essentially adding three interchangeable lines players could use. The biggest complaint we had before was that a new Class meant needing to start a new character, but now you totally could take those lines on an existing character (or build a new one if you’re me and totally want to make a new character for it). This also means that they wouldn’t need to add new character slots if they don’t have the data space for it, even though I do think they should.

There are a lot of fun ideas, but I do like the idea of a Dwemer Artificer with lines for summoning automata, traps and grenades, and tonal magic. It’d fit very nicely in the lore, offer tantalizing hints to the greatest series mystery without solving a thing, and also would allow players to further play with their builds. One of the most common requests from players is a “Bard” class like in D&D, except that’s not really a thing in the TES series, and a Class requires three lines and the capability to do all roles… but taking a single line of Tonal Magic to Subclass in might be exactly what people have in mind…

I’ll admit - I want a new Class more than anything. 2025 was a year of disappointment, and really only a new Class that I could explore would get me excited enough to throw down money for next year.

My big issue though is the fact that the current game balance is so appallingly bad, that adding anything new would just be adding gasoline to the fire. But I also don’t think the game could afford another year of nothing new while they balance things, considering how this year was received.

ESO_player123 wrote: »

JaxontheUnfortunate wrote: »

I would say temporarily roll it back and rework it through pts cycles then reintroduce it to live when it’s actually ready, instead of “testing in prod” as it were.

That would be terrible. People spent time leveling skill lines.

People also spent time playing this game the way its been before subclassing for over a decade. This is a poor argument.

Yes. After thousands of hours in this game, almost all achievements and cp 3600 I stopped playing the game. All my chars with different classes feel useless now.

Honestly, I think you can enjoy subclassing and still understand how it - in its current condition - is bad for the game such that you can take the position that it should be rolled back. The further narrowing of metas, the lack of combat balance in both PVE and PVP, the fact that it renders alternative characters pretty much useless unless you want a character of a different race. These are all things players typically DON'T like in the long run.

Yes, it is fun to be overpowered - for a time. But when there is no challenge left in the game, the devs will need to take a hard look at how they make content. Without some severe balancing choices, you can expect to see bosses with frequent health gating mechanics, or insane healing mechanics, or disgusting amounts of health so that the encounter is not over in 30 seconds, increased use of one-hit-kill mechanics to further simulate difficulty, Teleporting bosses that are difficult to hit, or bosses with phases that feature a massive amount of hard to kill minions. Nobody really enjoys these kinds of mechanics, but with unchecked powercreep, you can expect these kinds of changes - and that is just in the PVE realm.

The alternative is to bring subclassing more into balance, which is going to make all of the fun builds you guys are enjoying right now much weaker. Will you still enjoy subclassing then?

Subclassing is awesome as a concept, but the way its implemented makes the game feels somewhat half baked. Subclasses should add onto what a class already provides instead of replacing what isn't used.

To accomplish such a thing, I think that subclassing could be remade to interact with the scribing system now that its a base game feature. The idea is that the skill line chosen as a characters subclass would grant them signature and affix scripts based on effects from the skill lines abilities instead of giving them the actual skills themselves. These scripts could then be scribed onto class skills to replace their signature or affix scripts to further customize the character.

Since abilities from different skill lines provide unique effects (signature scripts) and sometimes provide named buffs and debuffs (affix scripts), normal class skills can be enhanced with these effects to suit certain roles. The signature and affix scripts gained from the subclass have to be eligible to be scribed onto a certain class skill though. scripts gained from a skill lines ultimate abilities can only be scribed onto ultimate abilities, healing effects can't be scribed onto damage skills, spammables can't get crazy named buffs, and so on. The skills themselves will still have the same base function though, you can't turn a damage over time skill into a spammable using such a system since only signature and affix scripts can be scribed to class skills.
Such a system would also enable classes to gain signature and affix scripts from their own skill lines to scribe onto other skills in the class to further empower themselves, thus making "pure classes" viable. eg: A Necromancer could take their Grave Lord skill line as their subclass to be able t have Grave Lord effects on Living Death, Bone Tyrant or even other Grave Lord skills to round out their preferred build and playstyle.

This idea obviously requires a lot more refinement and thought put into it for balancing purposes and implementation, but I think that having subclasses be a part of scribing could create more build variety and interesting playstyles while still maintaining the classic class system somewhat.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

JaxontheUnfortunate wrote: »

I would say temporarily roll it back and rework it through pts cycles then reintroduce it to live when it’s actually ready, instead of “testing in prod” as it were.

That would be terrible. People spent time leveling skill lines.

People also spent time playing this game the way its been before subclassing for over a decade. This is a poor argument.

And their gameplay style has not been deleted. So, no, it's not. Live service games change. They trend towards balance not removal of major systems. It's reasonable to expect subclassing to better balanced, imo. But, I very seriously doubt they would disrespect players by removing it.

They nerfed multiple classes day one to make subclassing more appealing if you want to stay at the top of your game... this is a disingenuous take. It may not be "deleted" but you can't roll back a built in concept, that is class identity, that's existed since the game was conceived. Saying that their playstyle isnt deleted when people decide who they'll play with in the case of pve based on their playstyle, and in the case of pvp you need to stay competitive by being current on new features, is just blindly ignoring the social aspect of the game. You can choose to ignore the changes, but that doesn't mean doing so is viable or enjoyable. For many who wish to play with others, or enjoy pvp, this does actually effectively delete their playstyle, a part of that is the effectiveness of what you're doing. Ignoring that aspect of the game is straight up lying about the nature of it, especially in an mmo. Few wanna play a pure DK or Nightblade when it means getting stomped in pvp because you dont wanna press and hold beam, all because zos doesn't know what to do with their game or how to balance it. Ive been a DK since beta on every account, I think that people who have been with this game for over a decade take precedent, and the dying player count suggests the same.

Live service games change is an irrelevant comment, games change period, the changes aren't supposed to alienate the main playerbase youve had over a decade and change the core of what that game was, and pretty much every time it does, that live service game dies. Helldivers is a good example of that, every time they make a bad change people stop playing till its fixed. Difference is Arrowhead listens to their fanbase and fixes their issues.

Discussing whether they will or not delete subclassing isn't really important either. I doubt they will which is why I voted the way I did, but they absolutely should, or severely nerf the concept entirely like weaken the subclass skills and passives compared to them being used by the actual class.

If WoW didn't even do this, not sure why they thought they should. They didn't even let scripts breathe before throwing in such a game altering feature.

ESO, fix multiclassing.

You ruined my non pet sorcerer, and basically told me to ... off and play some other classes skill lines.

I have a full line up of all the classes to lvl 50, I play them when I want too. My sorcerer was my first class and my favorite from beta. Now, I don't want to play my sorcerer so much and am really unhappy with how my sorerer is messed up. So, I now barely log and hope you will fix this mess soon.