Would you be okay with Subclassing being rolled back?

Pixiepumpkin

Yes. I think it would be best for the game if subclassing was removed.

MIAMI wrote: »

I think it was a costly mistake and that it should be reverted. This is making the game something it isn't and it will make balancing even more complicated. people voting no only because it won't happen should be removed from the poll

Not to mention that many of the "No" voters have a...personal stake at risk.

RebornV3x

No. Despite any problems with subclassing, I think it's better if it stays and its issues get addressed.

I actually like sub classing very much I think the way they rolled it out just putting it out there with little thought is a problem and not having a double exp event for months so that we could level the skill lines relatively quicker is my only complaint.

Treeshka

No. Despite any problems with subclassing, I think it's better if it stays and its issues get addressed.

Builds have been made. World records have been taken. Reverting it would only remove fun.

Ulvich

Yes. I think it would be best for the game if subclassing was removed.

Yeah, especially in Cyrodiil.

Rampeal

No. Despite any problems with subclassing, I think it's better if it stays and its issues get addressed.

No, it is a step in the right direction, that being said it does need some work. For example: maybe make it so you can only pick one other class rather than multiple. Another good step would be to increase the resource cost of using skills or reduce the damage a subclass skill does.

GloatingSwine

Partially. I think subclassing should be more limited and situational (only 1 skill line, no passives, only on PVE, etc.)

I don't think the toothpaste is going to go back into the tube.

I do think it should be limited to one swapped skill line at a time.

Runswithtrees

No. Despite any problems with subclassing, I think it's better if it stays and its issues get addressed.

I like making elemental builds. So i love Sub Classing. In reference to PVP Everyryone has a different "Meta" build, yet everyone claims a different build is the OP build. Thats called balance. When no one really knows what's best....thats when the game gets fun in my opinion. PVE needs more boss/monster bonuses spread out to add unique builds that still meet the DPS requirements for content.

CoronHR

No. Despite any problems with subclassing, I think it's better if it stays and its issues get addressed.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

CoronHR wrote: »

i think the cat's out of the bag and there's no going back.

that said, i hate the idea that we'll never get a new class, because with subclassing, that idea seems dead. so, if we had to do it all over again, i'd say no to subclassing and yes to a new class, but i just think it's too late

What exactly is the logic that subclassing means no new classes? That doesn't add up.

well, idk, it just seems unlikely now. maybe in a couple of years we'll have a new class? but i'm thinking -- why would zos release a new class? how would that work? a class that would immediately be subclassed? a class that would be a pure class that we'd play for a while, but would struggle to perform similarly as a subclass build? i feel like there are a lot of sticky points now to having a new class. they could release a new class, idk. but it immediately brings a lot of questions to my mind about how it would mix with subclassing. anyway, i'm sure there's an argument to be made that they'll of course release a new class, i just don't see it as being likely.

James-Wayne

No. Despite any problems with subclassing, I think it's better if it stays and its issues get addressed.

I asked for subclassing about 7 years ago (although my original idea was grander) so I dont want it removed. Do some class lines need rework so they are worth taking, yes but subclassing provides greater build flexibility which I love. Next we need to remove choosing your class from the new character menu and build as you go.

The Elder Scrolls was always meant to be play how you want and subclassing gets us a step closer to that.

VvwvenomwvV

Other

Subclassing has been fun. It's allowed more freedom to make your character as you see fit. As Abnur Tharn once said, "We'll make a Necromancer out of you yet." We'll, it took ten years, but it finally happen.

Zos is trying to add content and do their best to balance things out. Subclassing is the biggest change in the game so far. There is no going back. That being said, Eso can continue to evolve. I'm in the mindset of making things better, not nerfing everything into the dirt. Over-nerfing things leaves the player feeling disinterested in the game.

Class identity is a focus some people like because it's how the game was for 10 years. You still have to choose one skill line from the class you are on, and not two skill lines from a different class, but instead only one. An example: Sorc, Nightblade, Templar. The problem was that Zos allowed players to choose any combination of skill lines. People are choosing all three dps, etc. A more balanced approach might have been to only allow a swap of dps for dps, healing for healing, and tanking for tanking skill lines. That's in the past, so how do we move forward?

A few changes I'd like to see are:
1. Racial Ultimate. This would give identity to the race you've chosen and be really fun to have.
2. Make all Mythic items a stand alone item that doesn't take the place of your other pieces. Take for example Rakhat's. It's a shoulder piece. Guess what...you can't run a monster set with it.
3. Make Monster sets better. This could be solved by making the switch to the mythic have a separate slot, like a relic.
4. Add new armor sets that are worth using. Many new sets do almost exactly the same thing as other older sets, except they are worse than the old sets.
5. There are a lot of old, outdated sets that are completely useless. These seriously need a rework.
6. Vampire and werewolf needs some serious love.
7. Add cleave back to the lightning staff. Putting cleave behind a pay wall ( the Arcanist beam ) is not how everyone wants to play PvE.
8. Make all staff types have a toggle between aoe and single target. A flamethrower and snow machine would be fun!
9. Guild structure needs some work. As new zones have been added over 10 years, having to search 300 traders for an item is not fun. Everyone should have the ability to sell and buy with ease.
10. Server stability. Crashes and lag still persist.
11. Nightmare mode for dungeons. A scroll you read at the beginning of the dungeon that makes all adds and boses much harder.
12. Special rewards for completing Nightmare mode, like updated / perfected gear from the dungeon, including the monster set.
13. Cyrodiil needs a major update.

Whatever the future holds for Eso, I'm sure Zos will continue to make great content for us to play.

Lixiviant

No. Despite any problems with subclassing, I think it's better if it stays and its issues get addressed.

Nope. With some of the nerfs that have happened over the years, I can finally bring some of my builds out of retirement.

Overamera

Yes. I think it would be best for the game if subclassing was removed.

I would even want it to go back to before hybrid. I also believe this poll doesn't show exactly what eso players want. It only shows what current players that sticked around for subclass votes for. When it comes to PvP players, when hybridization came half my friend list stopped playing. When sublcass came then half my friend list stopped playing again.

SerafinaWaterstar

No. Despite any problems with subclassing, I think it's better if it stays and its issues get addressed.

10 year player here & find subclassing great fun.

As I have 20-odd characters, have been playing around with some & it’s made them much more enjoyable to play.

Yes, there is a meta - but then there is always a meta, so who cares?

And if it allows people to access bits of the game they felt they couldn’t previously? GOOD.
Not fond of elites.

heaven13

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

10 year player here & find subclassing great fun.

As I have 20-odd characters, have been playing around with some & it’s made them much more enjoyable to play.

Yes, there is a meta - but then there is always a meta, so who cares?

And if it allows people to access bits of the game they felt they couldn’t previously? GOOD.
Not fond of elites.

You don't have to be "elite" to want to play through harder content. And if you want to prog through some of the hardest content in the game, it's not elite to want to have options regarding your build (having at least a couple builds that are within a few percentage difference of each other) to do that content.

I think what this thread showcases is that it's not subclassing itself that's the problem. It's that it was delivered without cleaning house first. And the attitude and disconnect of the devs between "we know it [subclassing] will be unbalanced but we're totally okay with releasing it that way" and "we can't change food/potions because it'll be unbalanced" leaves a lot of mistrust and doubt that there will be any follow through to actually make subclassing well-rounded and a choice vs just an ever revolving door of flavor of the patch. And given that arcanist was top way before subclassing and remains top with subclassing, further sours people who do NOT want to beam but want to prog harder content because it doesn't look like that's changing or being balanced any time soon.

Ragnarok0130

Yes. I think it would be best for the game if subclassing was removed.

I think subclassing has been a net negative on the end game community but I'm a realist and do not believe that subclassing will ever be removed no matter how many balance and class identity issues it has created. Perhaps ZoS could create a setting where subclassing is disabled in trials and PVP and it runs on a separate leader boards? Beyond that I'm not sure how subclassing can actually be addressed. We also have the issue that pure classes are far behind subclassed builds and that is the most important issue to be addressed that could possibly temper the large negative effect subclassing has had on end game activities.

katanagirl1

Pointless to vote on this one, like others said it’s here and won’t be removed.

I just think it shows that we have come to the point where this can’t really be a game for both casual and end-game players anymore. The ones rolling out subclassing had no idea how it would affect the playerbase and that it would split them down the middle and create a gap even bigger than what was already there. They have no clue how end-game activities are run on the live servers and the requirements that groups have for running content and they still refuse to listen.

Serious_Angel

No. Despite any problems with subclassing, I think it's better if it stays and its issues get addressed.

To this day, I have yet to encounter any actual issue with sub-classing others state. I have found absolute no one from my perspective, which is PVE predominantly or 95% of all the time of me adventuring Nirn all these years.

Considering similar subjects raised at Steam Community, one of my responses is the following:

I am sorry, but... I adore the sub-classing opportunity...

The hero and me set the first step exploring together the Universe with Nirn in ineffably magnificent... The Elder Scrolls Online... in 2016, and I have never yet parted the path of the hero, and I am not going to. In other words, for around 16,000 hours in the title and counting, there's only 1 character on my entire account, and she is a Breton Sorcerer ✨

To have the option to discover new skills and continue the adventure with the hero I've been with for all those years... is a dear miracle... since I cannot even imagine any start of a new adventure... No... sorry, there's only one hero I know!

I've also been maintaining a few public self-developed add-ons, and I just got used to it all the way it all is, including the current level of the character/hero she has gained already... with so much time invested into... There's already more than 100,000 screenshots, too...

Please accept... my sincere... heartfelt appreciation and gratitude... dear ingenious, absolutely marvelous Developers, Artists, and Community... for such a relief... for the indescribably awesome opportunity to discover new and experiment with magick and keep the current state of the life I know... and trust to...

Thank you... from the depths of my heart...

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3575260430 (The Elder Scrolls Online (preview of more than 100,000 screenshots)...)

Source

BardokRedSnow

Partially. I think subclassing should be more limited and situational (only 1 skill line, no passives, only on PVE, etc.)

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I didn't build and play exclusively a DK for 8 years to be using arcanist and warden skills.

Ive been a DK main since launch, this 1000.
I could put up with pretty much any change to the meta, DK is up one minute then down the next two years back and forth. But this straight up murdered all enthusiasm I had to keep playing. And seems to have done so for most of my friends and long time contacts.

Destai

Yes. I think it would be best for the game if subclassing was removed.

I could live with it being rolled back. But I don't think it'd happen, or that it would solve the underlying problems. I also think subclassing has created a no-win situation between ZOS and some players.

I saw this coming, but there was an initial excitement followed by me realizing I just don't like most classes. Eventually, I realized that I wanted a simple rotation and that was either Jabs or Beams, with some original classes flavoring.

Aliniel

Yes. I think it would be best for the game if subclassing was removed.

35% voting for "Yes" confirms how devastating this feature was for the game. Three (two?) patches since it was released and still not even a semblance of balancing changes in sight. There were always skills that were frowned upon and generally not used. Now, they are never going to be used because you can simply swap them out.
Not to mention how some passives are locked to classes (e.g., Stormcalling passive for extra Attack/Spell Power).
Class identity is utterly shattered. Why do we even have classes anymore?
Everyone is running the same thing - arcanist beam or sorcerer pets with HA build.
This catering to casual players has finally destroyed the game.
The question remains how long it will take for it to fully bleed dry.

DoofusMax

Other

I'm in the vast minority with "other" here, but subclassing seems to be ZOS "fix" for the lack of a class change mechanic, so that part is kinda good. I'm not among them, but there are many players out there who are very attached to their one character while I'm very attached to all of mine (variety is a spice of life, and all that). I'm also in the "thumbs up" group because they did the mechanic at no additional real-money cost to the player, unlike race-change, outfit change, name-change, alliance-change, etc.

I'm less than enthused about dropping the mechanic under the idea that it will be rebalanced later and I'm absolutely not good with the loss of class character and flavor. All my characters are being back to pure-class builds and I intend to keep them that way. At this point, subclassing becoming necessary for content completion will be a red line for me, but that's a future problem.

In more here-and-now terms, I don't have much of a problem with the subclassing mechanic itself, but I think the power spike could have been greatly diminished by limiting the number of skill points which could put into subclass skill passives.On the flip side of that, the horses have already bolted and patching in such a limitation later will produce much weeping and wailing about nerfing, so I don't see a whole lot of room to maneuver for ZOS. I think the good points generally outweigh the bad, but there are enough bad see it as a deeply flawed mechanic.

fizzybeef

Yes. I think it would be best for the game if subclassing was removed.

@Zos this is ownly representive but a good example how subclassing splitted the community.
People despite it! Do something please

shadyjane62

Yes. I think it would be best for the game if subclassing was removed.

I would like everything rolled back to the day before U35.

MrGarlic

No. Despite any problems with subclassing, I think it's better if it stays and its issues get addressed.

NO

I am now able to improve my warden with better skills, but still be a warden.

Recent

Other

I put other here is why:

It would not be fair on players that have worked hard to level up subclass skill lines to 50 and make new

Being a genx gamer I'm used to the grind in gaming and used to earning something for it to mean something to me. I dont expect everything to be given to me easily.

I have to admit I did not like subclassing at first, I was so against it cos it overwhelmed me. Now I find it fun but something has to be adjusted.

Racial passives need to be changed and races should just be cosmetic no passives. Racial Passives should become like separate skillines or something of that nature.

ESO_player123

No. Despite any problems with subclassing, I think it's better if it stays and its issues get addressed.

Recent wrote: »

I put other here is why:

It would not be fair on players that have worked hard to level up subclass skill lines to 50 and make new builds and such.
HOWEVER!!
I do worry about new players having to play different classes and levelling them all to 50 to be able to have the subclass skill lines from those classes. I see players begging for BRP runs so they can power level their first character cos they want to get to endgame fast. This game seems to be forcing players to take more time levelling BUT the younger generation of players are zoomers that want speed , want it all now cos they are in a rush.

Being a genx gamer I'm used to the grind in gaming and used to earning something for it to mean something to me. I dont expect everything to be given to me easily.

I have to admit I did not like subclassing at first, I was so against it cos it overwhelmed me. Now I find it fun but something has to be adjusted.

Racial passives need to be changed and races should just be cosmetic no passives. Racial Passives should become like separate skillines or something of that nature.

You do not need to have an alt with a skill line leveled to 50 to be able to subclass that skill line on your main. I thought that was the case, but I was able to swap Dark magic to Aedric Spear on PCEU on my sorc despite not having a Templar there (in fact, that sorc is the only toon there).

chokehold

No. Despite any problems with subclassing, I think it's better if it stays and its issues get addressed.

Frankly, I would probably quit and not look back if subclassing was removed now. I have multiple characters in all classes, and it has made each of them better and more enjoyable for me. After spending hundreds of hours rebuilding, testing and playing each of them, having it all simply go away now would be a huge disappointment. Especially if it all went away for no reason better than "I don't want to do it, so I don't want anyone else to do it either." On the other hand, I do think ZOS should spend some quality time with each class to make each of them more playable for players who don't want to subclass even accepting that the pure class will never be as strong or versatile. The last thing they need is to start nerfing things again and make everything less playable and less fun.

Vonnegut2506

No. Despite any problems with subclassing, I think it's better if it stays and its issues get addressed.

It will be rolled back about the same time they revert jabs and flurry to the old animations and get rid of hybridization.

Recent

Other

Thank you for pointing that out. Cos I play all classes i didnt realise this. I edited my answer to reflect this.
I honestly am subclassing every skill line to 50 so I dont have to go back and level anything again hopefully lol
Ive finished off all public dungeons for the skill point and skyshard on all my alts So they have enough skill points to buy passives and such.
Big job but like I said im used to grinding but not something i want to do often. If they change subclassing now i'll be mortified haha

percept

Hell yea get rid of it. I started playing almost 2 months ago and I hate it.

Everything's cookie cutter. All you see is beams man