Update on Custom PC Drive Installs at Root Level

ZOS_Kevin · September 24

Hi Everyone. We have discovered an issue impacting custom installations of ESO on the root folder of a drive. If you have actively selected to install ESO at the root level on a drive (eg. C:\ or E:\), not in the default install ZeniMax Online sub-folder as recommended (or any named sub-folder), and attempt to uninstall ESO using "Uninstall", it will uninstall the full contents of the drive. Users who installed using the default settings or who placed ESO in a sub-folder of a drive are not affected by this. This will affect a minor number of users who have actively made that choice when installing ESO and we are working to provide a fix as soon as possible. In the meantime, if you have ESO installed on the root of a drive, you may use the following steps to avoid the root drive issues while we work on an official fix.Currently, we have a few quick fixes for anyone currently with ESO installed on a root drive.

Manual removal: You can select the Launcher folder, the uninstaller, and the eso game folder if the game is fully installed and press Shift+Delete. This will essentially delete everything as though you ran the uninstaller.
Move to a subfolder: If you are not planning to uninstall, you can move the Launcher Folder, Uninstaller, and the game folder into a new folder on the drive. Within this newly created folder, select the Launcher folder and uninstaller and press Shift + Delete. This will leave only the ESO game folder left. You can now run the installer and select your new folder created in the first step as your file path. This will not only reinstall the patcher, it will recognize the old ESO game folder and you will not need to re-install the full game.

The team has tested these steps to make sure your drives are safe while working on an official fix. If you have been impacted or have any logistical questions, please place a ticket with customer service. We recognize how frustrating this issue can be, and we truly appreciate your patience as we work on a solution. While the problem stems from installations set up outside the recommended standard default, we're committed to providing a fix to ensure everything runs smoothly .

duagloth · September 25

Lol this is insane. How potentially bad this can be.

silky_soft · September 25

Suprised pikachu face.

Techwolf_Lupindo · September 25

Love the fact that the Steam client will allow you to add more drives and install games there. Each game can be install into a different drive. The Steam client will even allow you to move installed games to different drives or storage area without downloading the 200GB game again. Unlike the ZOS installer that INSIST on re-downloading the game even though you have a copy of the cache files you downloaded off someone else GigiBit internet and sneakernet the files via USB flash drive to ones home that only has 1MegBit DSL internet service.

Note that running the game itself and playing in world uses less then 1 megabit speed and normally 38 kilobits. That about dial-up speeds there. Max dial up speeds was 58 kilobits.

Parrot1986 · September 25

I get that is a non standard install but to say the issue stems from people doing it is a bit harsh. Something has changed or not been done zos side to allow them to wipe the drive instead of uninstalling the game. Comes off like passing the buck and it’s user error solely.

CameraBeardThePirate · September 25

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

While the problem stems from installations set up outside the recommended standard default, we're committed to providing a fix to ensure everything runs smoothly .

No offense, but this is a joke.

Are you seriously trying to blame others for this? Steam and other storefronts/launchers specifically allow you to choose any folder you want during installation.

Heck for other Elder Scrolls titles, it can even be beneficial to install them on your root folder for automated modding purposes.

Some people have specific drives for gaming, and thus have no need for sub folders.

Saying the problem "stemmed from user error" is blatantly trying to shift the blame when this is 100% on the fault of the launcher itself. Anything less than "Sorry guys, we messed up" is pretty ridiculous.

Maitsukas · September 25

If my ESO is set up as follows (on an external SSD after copying from a different PC), then it should be okay like that?

E:
- Games
  - The Elder Scrolls Online
    - Launcher
    - The Elder Scrolls Online
    - The Elder Scrolls Online PTS
    - uninstall

Destai · September 25

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

We recognize how frustrating this issue can be, and we truly appreciate your patience as we work on a solution.

Can we get an actual apology?

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

While the problem stems from installations set up outside the recommended standard default, we're committed to providing a fix to ensure everything runs smoothly .

This feels more like the problem stems from the original design not accounting for an installation being removed from a drive on every computer.

Varana · September 25

Maitsukas wrote: »

If my ESO is set up as follows (on an external SSD after copying from a different PC), then should it be okay like that?
E:
Games
The Elder Scrolls Online
Launcher

The Elder Scrolls Online

The Elder Scrolls Online PTS

uninstall

Yes, that is okay.

This refers to installs like

E:
- Launcher
- The Elder Scrolls Online
- The Elder Scrolls Online PTS
- uninstall

code65536 · September 25

Parrot1986 wrote: »

I get that is a non standard install but to say the issue stems from people doing it is a bit harsh. Something has changed or not been done zos side to allow them to wipe the drive instead of uninstalling the game. Comes off like passing the buck and it’s user error solely.

This is absolutely a case of user error.

If you want to install ESO to your Z drive, you do so by installing it to "Z:\eso", and that's totally fine. And I would expect that 99% of people installing ESO onto a secondary drive are doing it this way. But if you install it to "Z:\", then that's just you pointing a gun at your foot and wondering why you are feeling pain.

Okay, so let me elaborate on why this is dumb. When you install something to "Z:\eso", you're saying "hey, everything in "Z:\eso" is for you to use. And similarly, when you install to the drive's root, i.e., "Z:\", you're saying that the entire drive is for whatever you're installing. It is common practice for an uninstaller to just delete everything in their installation path. This isn't a ZOS or ESO thing. This is how most installers for most software work. So if you install to "Z:\", then you shouldn't be surprised if the uninstaller nukes the drive, because that's what you told it to do.

I want to emphasize this again: this isn't an ESO thing. Do this with another piece of software, and you will likely run into the exact same problem.

Okay, but is there something that ZOS could have done differently here?

Option 1: Don't nuke the install path, only delete things selectively. Yea, there are some installers out there that do this, but this approach has problems. First, as a software dev, this approach means that your installer needs a list of every file that is yours. This could be hundreds or thousands of files. This list needs to be kept up to date as updates to your software changes the file roster. It means that uninstalling isn't a simple job of "delete our folder", but is now a slower process of deleting hundreds or thousands of files individually. And sometimes things get left over, and users complain about how the uninstall wasn't clean. There's a reason why only a minority of uninstallers work this way.
Option 2: Don't let the user point the gun at their feet. If the user tries to install to "Z:\", then either put up a message saying that isn't allowed, or quietly fix the user's request and change it to "Z:\eso"

So this is 100% a case of user error, with the blame split between the user making that error and ZOS not putting in guardrails to prevent the user from making that error. But it is absolutely user error.

shadoza · September 25

code65536 wrote: »

Parrot1986 wrote: »

I get that is a non standard install but to say the issue stems from people doing it is a bit harsh. Something has changed or not been done zos side to allow them to wipe the drive instead of uninstalling the game. Comes off like passing the buck and it’s user error solely.

This is absolutely a case of user error.

If you want to install ESO to your Z drive, you do so by installing it to "Z:\eso", and that's totally fine. And I would expect that 99% of people installing ESO onto a secondary drive are doing it this way. But if you install it to "Z:\", then that's just you pointing a gun at your foot and wondering why you are feeling pain.

Okay, so let me elaborate on why this is dumb. When you install something to "Z:\eso", you're saying "hey, everything in "Z:\eso" is for you to use. And similarly, when you install to the drive's root, i.e., "Z:\", you're saying that the entire drive is for whatever you're installing. It is common practice for an uninstaller to just delete everything in their installation path. This isn't a ZOS or ESO thing. This is how most installers for most software work. So if you install to "Z:\", then you shouldn't be surprised if the uninstaller nukes the drive, because that's what you told it to do.

I want to emphasize this again: this isn't an ESO thing. Do this with another piece of software, and you will likely run into the exact same problem.

Okay, but is there something that ZOS could have done differently here?
Option 1: Don't nuke the install path, only delete things selectively. Yea, there are some installers out there that do this, but this approach has problems. First, as a software dev, this approach means that your installer needs a list of every file that is yours. This could be hundreds or thousands of files. This list needs to be kept up to date as updates to your software changes the file roster. It means that uninstalling isn't a simple job of "delete our folder", but is now a slower process of deleting hundreds or thousands of files individually. And sometimes things get left over, and users complain about how the uninstall wasn't clean. There's a reason why only a minority of uninstallers work this way.

Option 2: Don't let the user point the gun at their feet. If the user tries to install to "Z:\", then either put up a message saying that isn't allowed, or quietly fix the user's request and change it to "Z:\eso"

So this is 100% a case of user error, with the blame split between the user making that error and ZOS not putting in guardrails to prevent the user from making that error. But it is absolutely user error.

Why would the software team need a list of every file? Just delete the files that were on the install list.
The uninstall execution can look for the ESO folder, if it finds it uninstall it, otherwise ask what path to take.

Radiate77 · September 25

+1 for Console gaming.

Frayton · September 25

Wow this is bad.

Operativ · September 26

code65536 wrote: »

Parrot1986 wrote: »

I get that is a non standard install but to say the issue stems from people doing it is a bit harsh. Something has changed or not been done zos side to allow them to wipe the drive instead of uninstalling the game. Comes off like passing the buck and it’s user error solely.

This is absolutely a case of user error.

(snip)

I'm with you on this one, and I support what ZeniMax passed in this one. This is definitely user error.

Many people born after a certain date have had Computer Basics lessons since primary school, and this is absolutely covered there (or later on in the equivalent of a middle school, or high school). Do NOT touch the root "/" directory. If a person doesn't comprehend the basic knowledge of how to use a tool they have, then they either should catch up on the fundamentals, or use it at their own discretion without putting any blame on the others.

Well done on attempting to make a fix for this one, ZOS. Most other software companies would just ignore this and proclaim "works as intended, won't fix as its user error".

Durnik · September 26

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi Everyone. We have discovered an issue impacting custom installations of ESO on the root folder of a drive. If you have actively selected to install ESO at the root level on a drive (eg. C:\ or E:\), not in the default install ZeniMax Online sub-folder as recommended (or any named sub-folder), and attempt to uninstall ESO using "Uninstall", it will uninstall the full contents of the drive.

Since this is a technical issue, this needs an edit to be technically correct.

Looking at the last part of the last sentence, it either means...
1. .... it will DELETE all your data on the drive, regardless of it being ESO data, the OS, or your kids pictures.
2. .... it will UNINTSALL all applications installed in the root of that drive, not just ESO.

lillybit · September 26

shadoza wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Parrot1986 wrote: »

I get that is a non standard install but to say the issue stems from people doing it is a bit harsh. Something has changed or not been done zos side to allow them to wipe the drive instead of uninstalling the game. Comes off like passing the buck and it’s user error solely.

This is absolutely a case of user error.

If you want to install ESO to your Z drive, you do so by installing it to "Z:\eso", and that's totally fine. And I would expect that 99% of people installing ESO onto a secondary drive are doing it this way. But if you install it to "Z:\", then that's just you pointing a gun at your foot and wondering why you are feeling pain.

Okay, so let me elaborate on why this is dumb. When you install something to "Z:\eso", you're saying "hey, everything in "Z:\eso" is for you to use. And similarly, when you install to the drive's root, i.e., "Z:\", you're saying that the entire drive is for whatever you're installing. It is common practice for an uninstaller to just delete everything in their installation path. This isn't a ZOS or ESO thing. This is how most installers for most software work. So if you install to "Z:\", then you shouldn't be surprised if the uninstaller nukes the drive, because that's what you told it to do.

I want to emphasize this again: this isn't an ESO thing. Do this with another piece of software, and you will likely run into the exact same problem.

Okay, but is there something that ZOS could have done differently here?
Option 1: Don't nuke the install path, only delete things selectively. Yea, there are some installers out there that do this, but this approach has problems. First, as a software dev, this approach means that your installer needs a list of every file that is yours. This could be hundreds or thousands of files. This list needs to be kept up to date as updates to your software changes the file roster. It means that uninstalling isn't a simple job of "delete our folder", but is now a slower process of deleting hundreds or thousands of files individually. And sometimes things get left over, and users complain about how the uninstall wasn't clean. There's a reason why only a minority of uninstallers work this way.

Option 2: Don't let the user point the gun at their feet. If the user tries to install to "Z:\", then either put up a message saying that isn't allowed, or quietly fix the user's request and change it to "Z:\eso"

So this is 100% a case of user error, with the blame split between the user making that error and ZOS not putting in guardrails to prevent the user from making that error. But it is absolutely user error.

Why would the software team need a list of every file? Just delete the files that were on the install list.
The uninstall execution can look for the ESO folder, if it finds it uninstall it, otherwise ask what path to take.

That's the point. It has asked what path to take and the answer was Z: so everything in Z: is considered the install.

Operativ wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Parrot1986 wrote: »

I get that is a non standard install but to say the issue stems from people doing it is a bit harsh. Something has changed or not been done zos side to allow them to wipe the drive instead of uninstalling the game. Comes off like passing the buck and it’s user error solely.

This is absolutely a case of user error.

(snip)

I'm with you on this one, and I support what ZeniMax passed in this one. This is definitely user error.

Many people born after a certain date have had Computer Basics lessons since primary school, and this is absolutely covered there (or later on in the equivalent of a middle school, or high school). Do NOT touch the root "/" directory. If a person doesn't comprehend the basic knowledge of how to use a tool they have, then they either should catch up on the fundamentals, or use it at their own discretion without putting any blame on the others.

Well done on attempting to make a fix for this one, ZOS. Most other software companies would just ignore this and proclaim "works as intended, won't fix as its user error".

It's not just people born after a certain date. My primary school got one computer in my last year that was to be "ooohhed" over and not in any way touched. Later schools had a few more but not so many that lessons on how to use them were available. But even I know that installing something directly on the root is a bad idea!

The install automatically comes up with a recommended directory so you'd have to deliberately delete that to put it in the root; if you've made that choice it's really on you.

Durnik · September 26

Regardless if folks decide to put something at the root level of the drive (very common for 2nd drives), the fact that the ESO uninstall DELETES EVERYTHING ON THE DRIVE is negligent programming. Let's try to blame the victim less and remember where the problem began.

ZOS_Kevin · September 26

Just updating here. The team has a fix in review for this now. We are just making sure it passes review and then will figure out a date for the fix itself.

Reverb · 12:45AM

Operativ wrote: »

I'm with you on this one, and I support what ZeniMax passed in this one. This is definitely user error.

Many people born after a certain date have had Computer Basics lessons since primary school

It needs said that this is true of people only born after a certain year and also before a certain year. Idk what year that is exactly, but most new college grads I’ve worked with in the last 4-5 years have almost no computer literacy.

Not only do they not know where they saved their document to, they don’t understand the concept that the information exists somewhere, in a location, on the computer. Basic directory or folder structure is a completely foreign concept. They’ve only ever worked on chromebooks and mobile devices.