“Joining Encounter in Progress” should have a confirmation check

Reverb · September 21

The “Joining Encounter in Progress” port to dungeon bosses should have a confirmation check. Groups should be able to let their speedrunner die alone, without the certainty that their group will port in to help.

With a confirmation check, people who do want to skip the entire dungeon and get pulled from boss to boss can, and people who don’t want to don’t have to.

Frayton · September 21

No because there's a solution to this built in to the game - make your own group.

ESO_player123 · September 21

I do not like speedrunners too. But many speedrunneers can solo the dungeons, and that could potentially leave some new players that are not familiar with this whole thing unable to complete the dungeon.

scrappy1342 · September 21

choices are good. "they can make their own group" goes both ways. the speedrunners can also make their own groups, and you see it very often during this event. lots of guild posts about farming boxes. i'm not big on speed running, but for this event, i welcome the free port to the boss to get it done and over with

gamergirldk · September 21

Just need to be removed altogether.

SilverBride · September 21

I was in a group yesterday and called out that there was a chest. I unlocked it but was pulled into an encounter in progress before I could loot it. A minute later I saw another chest that I called out but once again I was pulled away before I could loot it.

After the run I was able to run back and loot both chests before being removed from the dungeon. I was irritated that they didn't wait the few seconds it takes to unlock a chest but I took satisfaction in the fact that I was the only one that benefitted from these chests.

Frayton · September 21

scrappy1342 wrote: »

"they can make their own group" goes both ways.

True but speedrunners aren't the ones constantly complaining and making posts here about people who go too slow.

Vonnegut2506 · September 21

Frayton wrote: »

scrappy1342 wrote: »

"they can make their own group" goes both ways.

True but speedrunners aren't the ones constantly complaining and making posts here about people who go too slow.

That's because they don't have time to type up posts; they are too busy fake queueing and speedrunning dungeons.

ESO_player123 · September 21

gamergirldk wrote: »

Just need to be removed altogether.

I actually prefer being pulled to the boss to standing before the closed gates before the boss area because I was a tad slow.

spartaxoxo · September 21

Yeah it should work the same as the invitation for accepting a queue. Give people a few seconds to look whatever is in front of them before yanking them away from it. Don't make them decide instantly, let them hide it and loot it, then go to their notifications and accept it. Basic courtesy.

Reverb · September 21

ESO_player123 wrote: »

gamergirldk wrote: »

Just need to be removed altogether.

I actually prefer being pulled to the boss to standing before the closed gates before the boss area because I was a tad slow.

Then you’d be able to say Yes to the confirmation check.

ESO_player123 · September 22

Reverb wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

gamergirldk wrote: »

Just need to be removed altogether.

I actually prefer being pulled to the boss to standing before the closed gates before the boss area because I was a tad slow.

Then you’d be able to say Yes to the confirmation check.

My reply was for the proposition to remove the "Join the encounter" feature altogether. As in I prefer what we have now to not having it at all.

My replay to your suggestion is #3 in this thread.

whitecrow · September 22

SilverBride wrote: »

I was in a group yesterday and called out that there was a chest. I unlocked it but was pulled into an encounter in progress before I could loot it. A minute later I saw another chest that I called out but once again I was pulled away before I could loot it.

Yeah, that's not right. Mechanics should favor those playing as intended.

Hapexamendios · September 22

gamergirldk wrote: »

Just need to be removed altogether.

No, I'd rather be pulled in.

AzuraFan · September 22

I don't mind it at all. Sometimes I'm lagging behind or maybe even took a wrong turn, so I'm glad when I get pulled into the encounter. I've been in the situation where I've seen a chest or I didn't have a chance to loot the last mob, but no biggie.

I'd like it less if we had to wait a while because a group member or two were taking their time looting every crate and talking to every (non-essential) NPC. That's guildie/group finder stuff.

Having said that, I'm not fond of speedrunners. I'd much rather progress at a decent clip, killing everything along the way. But a pug is a pug. You roll with what you get, and if you can't do that, don't queue.

kargen27 · September 22

I still think the answer should be if everything doesn't die then no credit for finishing the dungeon. Maybe 97% of everything should have to die for those occasions when something gets stuck in a wall. This won't help with the event because the speed runners want the loot from the final boss not the reward for dungeon completion.
Maybe make bosses immune to attack until all the fodder on the way to the boss is dead. I am not on the side of speed runners when it comes to pugs. My point of view is players join to experience the dungeon and forcing them to skip parts takes away from why the group was formed.
Most the time if you do want to speed run skipping everything just announce in zone chat that you are about to do quick runs and you can fill your group with players that don't mind the skip to the end.

katanagirl1 · September 22

SilverBride wrote: »

I was in a group yesterday and called out that there was a chest. I unlocked it but was pulled into an encounter in progress before I could loot it. A minute later I saw another chest that I called out but once again I was pulled away before I could loot it.

After the run I was able to run back and loot both chests before being removed from the dungeon. I was irritated that they didn't wait the few seconds it takes to unlock a chest but I took satisfaction in the fact that I was the only one that benefitted from these chests.

I got pulled while looting a chest yesterday too, I almost had it unlocked when it happened. I stopped trying to open them after that. I got lucky, one player went offline after the last boss but stayed in group so I was able to take my time looting chests. I had the new addon so I could check all chest and heavy sack locations.

I still say the last player should be able to do things like chests and lorebooks without getting booted.

SilverBride · September 22

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I still say the last player should be able to do things like chests and lorebooks without getting booted.

I agree. We should have at least 15 minutes for things like this that we don't have time for while still grouped.

Orbital78 · September 22

The chest thing can be annoying, also breaking quests. I was surprised and it seems like they fixed some of the og dungeon quests like Selene's at least partially. I got pulled into the 2nd boss and it updated from the previous part.

I think things are fine the way they are, at least you should get credit/loot from the boss this way. It can help the slower folks too that can't keep up. I am guilty of using this, especially with fake tanks that are basically no role.

Islyn · September 22

Frayton wrote: »

scrappy1342 wrote: »

"they can make their own group" goes both ways.

True but speedrunners aren't the ones constantly complaining and making posts here about people who go too slow.

*CONSTANTLY* is it? Because no, it isn't constantly.

Also, if you weren't wildly exaggerating and it were? It would imply that the OP's complaint has merit - if as YOU state, so many others share that pov - vs the very few, again according to you, who prefer speedrunning.

Then the onus would be on the skipper to get their own group.

Or do you *actually* think it's more logical that people doing the dungeon as designed need to just shut up, than people queueing as tank and just doing whatever?

How does that make sense to you? Apply that faulty logic to anything else, you see where it fails.

Not just talking about the event, either.

More people may well be complaining about speedrunners robbing them of the chests, finishing encounters, etc idk I didn't take a poll; but that doesn't make their pov invalid, or wrong.

Islyn · September 22

SilverBride wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I still say the last player should be able to do things like chests and lorebooks without getting booted.

I agree. We should have at least 15 minutes for things like this that we don't have time for while still grouped.

And if the dungeon in longer open chests often time out and disappear, as well.

aetherix8 · September 22

Reverb wrote: »

The “Joining Encounter in Progress” port to dungeon bosses should have a confirmation check. Groups should be able to let their speedrunner die alone, without the certainty that their group will port in to help.

With a confirmation check, people who do want to skip the entire dungeon and get pulled from boss to boss can, and people who don’t want to don’t have to.

No thank you.

AzuraFan wrote: »

I'd like it less if we had to wait a while because a group member or two were taking their time looting every crate and talking to every (non-essential) NPC. That's guildie/group finder stuff.

100% this.

It seems many players fail to understand how a speedrunner's brain works. Let's have a quick look:

The main objective of a speedrunner is to reach "activity complete" as fast as possible and move on.

If you think that a speedrunner will take their time to create their own group with a fitting description via the group finder tool or zone/guild chat, and then wait for like-minded players to join, you're wrong and you will be disappointed.

If you think that a speedrunner will take their time to check the group finder tool for speedrunning groups, or wait for one to pop up, you're wrong and you will be disappointed.

A typical speedrunner will click on dungeon finder > specific dungeon > scroll down > queue.

If you think that a speedrunner will take their time to loot every chest, every container and talk to every NPC, or wait for you to do so, you're wrong and you will be disappointed.

A typical speedrunner assumes that if you have time to loot every container, check every corner of a dungeon, and talk to every NPC, then naturally you have time to create your own group via group finder or zone/guild chat, and wait for like-minded players to join.

A typical speedrunner may force a lock of a chest, but only if it's very much on the way. And even in such a case it isn't guaranteed.

One of the reasons the group finder tool was introduced is to help separate speedrunners from all the other players. A speedrunner assumes that dungeon finder is the best adapted tool for their needs.

That said, if you get a speedrunner in your group finder pug, where you've clearly indicated that you want to take your time, then IMO it isn't a speedrunner but a troll/griefer and you should report them. A typical speedrunner has no time and no interest in ruining other player's group finder activity.

Ardriel · September 22

Reading this, you might think that a lot of players suffer from “speed runners.” The fact is, however, that when I use the random dungeon finder, I experience speed runs in 80 out of 100 cases. Even on vet. So it's a minority of players who are upset about the gaming behavior of the absolute majority. I think people who have a problem with speedrunners should start their own groups. Not the other way around.
That aside, I don't think a confirmation check is necessary. For me personally, that wouldn't be beneficial. I am often pulled into the fight as a tank, even with my consent and also as dd or healer. You can easily skip obstacles and useless trash like this. Often, you are also pulled into the fight in trials after you joined a group which is already waiting at the boss. This already results in a loss of time = loss of dps, and as a tank, every second counts when bosses are not taunted. A confirmation check would just be another unnecessary delay.

trem3c · September 22

scrappy1342 wrote: »

choices are good. "they can make their own group" goes both ways. the speedrunners can also make their own groups, and you see it very often during this event. lots of guild posts about farming boxes. i'm not big on speed running, but for this event, i welcome the free port to the boss to get it done and over with

My experience is that the mix is usually 3 to 1, being 3 players who want to kill all the bosses (IOW play the damn dungeon) and get all possible XP and loot (within reason) and 1 speedrunner. The other day had a speedy who claimed we were finishing the dungeon faster because of him. LOL. We kicked him.

spartaxoxo · September 22

trem3c wrote: »

scrappy1342 wrote: »

choices are good. "they can make their own group" goes both ways. the speedrunners can also make their own groups, and you see it very often during this event. lots of guild posts about farming boxes. i'm not big on speed running, but for this event, i welcome the free port to the boss to get it done and over with

My experience is that the mix is usually 3 to 1, being 3 players who want to kill all the bosses (IOW play the damn dungeon) and get all possible XP and loot (within reason) and 1 speedrunner. The other day had a speedy who claimed we were finishing the dungeon faster because of him. LOL. We kicked him.

My experience is that there's usually one that wants to go fast, two that literally could not care less either way, and then maybe 1 that takes issue with it. Votes to kick speed runners usually fail for that reason.

Gabriel_H · September 22

This is not technically possible without a fundamental re-write to combat mechanics, loot mechanics, and aggro mechanics.

It would also kill non-joining players in a few dungeons. FH 1st boss springs to mind.

Major_Mangle · September 22

People seem to forget why it was implemented in the first place. It was a measure aimed to prevent people from sitting at an entrance at a dungeon/trial without participating but still getting credit for the achievement. While carries in PvE isn´t against ToS (as long as the payment is with in-game currency), I can understand why ZOS wouldn´t want people to simply "not participate" in encounters as a way to bypass the potential risks. Personally the joining encounter is a convenience tool for me, if I want to take my time or explore a dungeon/trial I´ll go the mile to make my own group.

OutLaw_Nynx · September 22

No thank you.

I believe that if you wish to stroll through the dungeon to loot, admire the scenery or do the story and be guaranteed to complete it, you should make your own group.

I never expect people in random group finder to listen to me or care if I need something.

frogthroat · September 22

aetherix8 wrote: »

A typical speedrunner will click on dungeon finder > specific dungeon > scroll down > queue.

Specific dungeon? In this scenario, what would be the speedrunner's motivation for running the dungeon?

Shawn_PT · September 22

How about a "Joining Encounter in Progress" pull where it pulls the people who are ahead into the mob fight happening in the back?

Or even better. It applies to both players and mobs, and suddenly the group has one boss and 100 smaller and elite enemies to fight all at the same time

wolfie1.0. · September 22

Ardriel wrote: »

Reading this, you might think that a lot of players suffer from “speed runners.” The fact is, however, that when I use the random dungeon finder, I experience speed runs in 80 out of 100 cases. Even on vet. So it's a minority of players who are upset about the gaming behavior of the absolute majority. I think people who have a problem with speedrunners should start their own groups. Not the other way around.
That aside, I don't think a confirmation check is necessary. For me personally, that wouldn't be beneficial. I am often pulled into the fight as a tank, even with my consent and also as dd or healer. You can easily skip obstacles and useless trash like this. Often, you are also pulled into the fight in trials after you joined a group which is already waiting at the boss. This already results in a loss of time = loss of dps, and as a tank, every second counts when bosses are not taunted. A confirmation check would just be another unnecessary delay.

One that speed runners can put up with. Because of the suggested options regarding the issue its the least intrusive. Or would you prefer the other extreme where there are 4 person plate mechanics or walls that require all group members to be present.

Surely a 10 to 15 second warning is fast enough. If nothing else it will allow speed runners to restore resources.

I saw one speed runner get so far ahead of themselves that they engaged the boss without and stamina to block and got one shotted somewhat comically a while back.

As for grouping. Ya a lot of people speed run. But its like 1 or 2 in a group where it happens.

Personally, when I encounter speed runners I just go with the flow and get summoned it. I also may not do my best dps or healing when it happens. I figure if they are in such a rush to get to places that they wanna not wait for me, then they can do most of the work.

The only time I really mind is if I want a speed run clear and I get a speed runner in those groups. Mainly because in many of the newer dungeons to get the clear you need to kill all of the mobs for it to count. And speed runners like to skip mobs and bosses if they can.