Guild bid info being shsred seems to have been the reason for Guild history being locked down till the 16th.
This would not be an issue if they removed guild traders and went to Market Boards

This being an endeavor 2nd day in a row is a cherry on top.

sPark101 wrote: »

Luckily there are ten thousand other tading guilds out there for the players that get cut.

Hello,

Yes, finding a place in a nice and decent trading guild is pretty easy.

For your information, you should also know that there are only 288 merchants available for a total of 144,000 players every week.

I highly doubt that there are still 144,000 of us playing every day per server... This is one more reason to resolve this issue as quickly as possible, because trade guilds in TESO are the most viable groups of people in the game.

Translated with DeepL.com (free version) I'm testing it, it seems better than Google Translate.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, just following up here. We posted an update message here regarding guild history. Our team is working to resolve the issue, however, this cannot be hotfixed. The team is currently working on other ways to help while we work to resolve the issue. If we have any additional updates, we'll follow up in the linked thread above.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Due to an issue where guild trader bidding history was visible to those without the appropriate guild permissions, we are temporarily turning off ALL guild history information. Unfortunately the fix for this issue cannot be hotfixed, so it will go out at the next earliest possible time: the incremental patch for PC on Sept. 15 and for consoles on Sept. 16.

Thank you all for your patience and understanding.

Skills not firing, taunts not working, but hey we'll fix the least important part of the game. Is that about right?

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hello! Great question. We checked with the Dev team on this, and the answer is yes. Guild trader bidding is working and it is safe to bid on them for your trading guilds.

Thank you for your prompt reply, I already feel much better

I will pass this information on to my colleagues.



*DeeplTrad

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Sorry for asking you directly Jessica, but you're more on the ball than most. I've looked back through the last five pages on this topic (currently all pages when posting this comment) of comments, but not read every comment thoroughly. I know my guild isn't the only one that's been hit by a scumbag member taking advantage of the guild blackout to clear our guild bank of anything that can be sold for even one gold to an in-game merchant.

Like many other GMs, I've had to temporarily revoke all bank access (deposit and withdrawal) to make sure people aren't donating stuff just to have it snatched by a dickhead. But too late really as one of our members is a turd, and I don't know who. Not only are they are turd, but they deliberately took advantage of a Zos-caused error in order to make less than 15k.

I want to know who that person is. The reason I want to know is because I want to blacklist that person from our guild, and also let the GMs of the other four guilds I'm in know, so they can blacklist them too. Even in low-stress guilds like mine, it's really frustrating to have the history hidden.

My guild is deliberately casual but honest. I've put thousands of hours into this game, including hundreds of hours into creating a guildhall that has everything and is convenient for all members. Someone in my guild is a bank-robbing jerk and I want to know who, in order to ban them, blacklist them, and warn other GMs I know of their GT.

So what I'm asking is, A) Fix the guild history blackout soon please, and Restore all guild history. I get that neither of those are your job, but you're the person we speak to, to maybe speak to someone else. And the info has to be somewhere in the files. I ask because I love this game. I've spent literally thousands of hours playing this game, and haven't regretted a single minute of it. But it's things like this that make me hate it.

If you can help, thank you

If you can't, thanks anyway. If you can't help, pass it on to someone who can please. And whether you can help or not, I and many others do appreciate what you do.

My wife is on PS5 and I'm on PS4 and have 600 mbs network speed. There is no history available to either of is, including players joinng. I invite people often to our guild yet the history says last invite was almost 2 weeks ago. Worse, we both get terriible lag and stutter beginning last year that we never had. Also loading screens in our houses, delves, and dungeons. People say sets are broken. I suggest the servers are broken.

Pops_ND_Irish wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Pops_ND_Irish wrote: »

Guild bid info being shsred seems to have been the reason for Guild history being locked down till the 16th.
This would not be an issue if they removed guild traders and went to Market Boards

That's like destroying the house and rebuilding a new one because the water pipes broke.

Completely different.
Guild traders couldn't control the market anymore that's why they would complain.
A market board would be good for everyone

Guild traders do not 'control the market', competition between guild traders does, which is one of the reasons why prices have been substantially reduced (one of the most dramatic examples being White-Gold War Torte which went from being substantially profitable to selling really close to/below cost).

Furthermore trader bids have not gone down proportionally which means that we are engaged on a race to the bottom to see who runs out of gold first (many established guilds already have at least on PC/EU).

A market board would do what it has done in pretty much every MMO that has one (until or if the devs really get hands on with the matter): allow RMT - for which game accounts are just a consumable therefore can engage in questionable practices with little concern - to control the supply and pricing of every single desirable item (to their profit and in detriment of everyone else's experience).

There seems to be a serious disconnect here, where players not engaged in trading perceive those who are as some kind of 'parasites bleeding the game dry' where actual trading guilds have to rely on all sorts of 'fundraisers' (raffles etc) or the GMs and officers 'digging into their pockets' (or both in many cases) to keep the guilds going as the 'income' from sales tax and the much appreciated donations come nowhere near covering the cost of the weekly trader bids.

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, just following up here. We posted an update message here regarding guild history. Our team is working to resolve the issue, however, this cannot be hotfixed. The team is currently working on other ways to help while we work to resolve the issue. If we have any additional updates, we'll follow up in the linked thread above.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Due to an issue where guild trader bidding history was visible to those without the appropriate guild permissions, we are temporarily turning off ALL guild history information. Unfortunately the fix for this issue cannot be hotfixed, so it will go out at the next earliest possible time: the incremental patch for PC on Sept. 15 and for consoles on Sept. 16.

Thank you all for your patience and understanding.

Skills not firing, taunts not working, but hey we'll fix the least important part of the game. Is that about right?

Yes.

But also no.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8366553/#Comment_8366553

It was correct when I wrote it. And it had been days without any acknowledgement from ZOS, unlike the this.

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Player habit determines footfall.

Accessibility and convenience determines player footfall because of how all guilds operate.

ApoAlaia wrote: »

The developers are the only ones that can - and do, there are systems upon systems in the game designed to influence player habit - meaningfully achieve this.

As I said, ZOS have played their part by where they have placed guild traders and by limiting each NPC to one guild only.

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Footfall determines any given trader's desirability, and desirability determines bidding behaviour.

Again, accessibility and convenience determines player footfall.

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Trading guilds are just groups of players whose behaviour is determined by the systems in place.

People are not mindless zombies. They have made a conscious choice on bidding. They could have decided that rather than bidding for the "best spot" but ignored that and instead employed advertising and lower prices to attract customers. Announcing sales on certain types of goods, or free joins for those who spend over a certain amount, or other promotional offers - like real world and online stores operate.

ApoAlaia wrote: »

What you infer is that we either operate outside the system's influence or that we have means to exert meaningful influence on the system. Or both.

I infer nothing. I'm simply stating reality.

ApoAlaia wrote: »

I find this to be an illusion. The only way for this to be true would be to operate outside the permitted parameters of the system, which very few are prepared to do because of the very clear chance of negative consequences.

As opposed to the current situation of people complaining about their guilds shutting down? Sounds like negative consequences to operating within the system, without considering how to augment it.

ZOS designed a basic outline of a system. It is the trading guilds who have then attempted to exploit the weaknesses of that system for their advantage; meaning the larger guilds push out the smaller competition. While it is only a video game, the economy is based on real-world principles - supply and demand - and like the real world it needs regulation or forward thinkers to be break down barriers to entry.

ApoAlaia wrote: »

And accessibility and convenience (where the traders are placed in relation to the wayshrine and the crafting area, and whether the crafting area is 'desirable' or not) is determined by ZOS, therefore ZOS by design informs player behaviour therefore habit therefore footfall.

We are just arguing semantics here.

Player behaviour can be influenced by more than just convenience. That isn't semantics, it's reality. As I said, ZOS are partially to blame because they decided placements, but guilds can make that placement irrelevent if they so choose - they choose not to.

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Guild traders do not 'control the market', competition between guild traders does, which is one of the reasons why prices have been substantially reduced (one of the most dramatic examples being White-Gold War Torte which went from being substantially profitable to selling really close to/below cost).

etc...

You are absolutely right, your vision reflects reality.

As I said earlier, there are only 288 of us active in trade, and the game only offers 144,000 places in these guilds.
Out of more than 850,000 guilds created on the EU, that's very few.
They don't realize that the base game offered 146 merchants for only 73,000 players, and at the time we only did one "bid". Investing a crazy amount of money was essential to survive. Then we were able to hold 10 "bids", which not only gave small guilds several chances to win a merchant, but also allowed mafia guilds to multiply their chances of gaining even more power over the weaknesses of the game.
Add to that all the new areas where locations are not conducive to trade, and the latest one in particular is a real scandal. Trade is not promoted or valued.

Today, with the loss of the number of player buyers, we have to use what we have spent years saving to make up for the losses week after week.

Some guilds in the most beautiful areas do not ask their members for contributions. We all know what they are used for, and the real money they earn would be better off in Zos's pocket to improve the game. But... nothing is being done, and the guilds that are doing a great job are disappearing day by day.

I dream of a city, a unique area, that would be halfway between an market board and the current merchant guild system.
Where each guild with more than 200 members (for example) could have a merchant there every week. The single bid would only be used to position the merchant in the city, and the location could not be the same from one week to the next, without too many constraints between the first and last positions. The number of locations could be increased very easily: 10 houses in a neighborhood, 5 floors, and 10 merchants per floor would already give us 500 merchant locations. And if we did that in just 10 neighborhoods, we would have 5,000.

We can adjust the numbers however we want, but we're only at 288 so far, and a lot of guild management, player, and energy skills are being lost because of a mark of possibility... and managing a trade guild is one of the most difficult and rewarding exercises in this game, in my opinion.

GM for 11 years, of a “clean” merchant guild.

I hope the translation is correct.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

Kazren wrote: »

Well here we are on Sept 15 and the patch did not fix the issue. What is going on? I'm still totally not sure what to list things for, so they're just all sitting in my bank.

Likely because the Consoles patch isn't until tomorrow on the 16th. When all platforms are patched, they will flip the switch.

The update today fixed it, and there were no issues loading the missing history. I enjoy trading, so this was pretty essential for my gaming experience.

Freezbeez wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Guild traders do not 'control the market', competition between guild traders does, which is one of the reasons why prices have been substantially reduced (one of the most dramatic examples being White-Gold War Torte which went from being substantially profitable to selling really close to/below cost).

etc...

You are absolutely right, your vision reflects reality.

As I said earlier, there are only 288 of us active in trade, and the game only offers 144,000 places in these guilds.
Out of more than 850,000 guilds created on the EU, that's very few.
They don't realize that the base game offered 146 merchants for only 73,000 players, and at the time we only did one "bid". Investing a crazy amount of money was essential to survive. Then we were able to hold 10 "bids", which not only gave small guilds several chances to win a merchant, but also allowed mafia guilds to multiply their chances of gaining even more power over the weaknesses of the game.
Add to that all the new areas where locations are not conducive to trade, and the latest one in particular is a real scandal. Trade is not promoted or valued.

Today, with the loss of the number of player buyers, we have to use what we have spent years saving to make up for the losses week after week.

Some guilds in the most beautiful areas do not ask their members for contributions. We all know what they are used for, and the real money they earn would be better off in Zos's pocket to improve the game. But... nothing is being done, and the guilds that are doing a great job are disappearing day by day.

I dream of a city, a unique area, that would be halfway between an market board and the current merchant guild system.
Where each guild with more than 200 members (for example) could have a merchant there every week. The single bid would only be used to position the merchant in the city, and the location could not be the same from one week to the next, without too many constraints between the first and last positions. The number of locations could be increased very easily: 10 houses in a neighborhood, 5 floors, and 10 merchants per floor would already give us 500 merchant locations. And if we did that in just 10 neighborhoods, we would have 5,000.

We can adjust the numbers however we want, but we're only at 288 so far, and a lot of guild management, player, and energy skills are being lost because of a mark of possibility... and managing a trade guild is one of the most difficult and rewarding exercises in this game, in my opinion.

GM for 11 years, of a “clean” merchant guild.

I hope the translation is correct.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

I get what you are saying. But one issue i have with your comments is that demand for the ability to sell items is actually quite low right now. At least on PC-NA. I run a guild with a regular trader. I have over 100+ empty slots for people. Of the people in my guild roughly only 60% actually sell stuff regularly and reliably.

If my guild is any reflection on what the economy looks like then we coild probably ditch 20 to 30 traders and see absolutely zero impact to the economy.

I would be happy to be proven wrong about that btw.