stop with "accomplish a BG" in daily endeavors

Thumbless_Bot · September 10

kiwi_tea wrote: »

100% agree that the system's poor respect for MMR is the issue. And maybe the BGs population is low and ZOS feels that justifies the present system, but imo it suppresses the population because there's no entry-level lobbies. People play once or twice, then decide it's not for them because all the lobbies are filled with first-timers and people who hide or use Arcanist beam vs actual PVP players and builds. If a team doesn't get a few of the latter on it, that team is doomed.

I really think mmr is nothing more than games played and cp level. It's atrocious. Every 8v8 has 3 or 4 sweats and 12 or 13 people in their pve setup because they run bgs every day until they get their xp.

If I happen to be on a team with 7 people who do not know how to block, have never encountered a dark convergence or roa pull, r think that the other player is going to just sit there in an arcanist beam, all of which seems to be 99% of the population, I usually just leave.

peacenote · September 10

Gabriel_H wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

This seems to be another version of the semi-regular debate about ZOS's overarching strategy to entice players to play all aspects of the game

There are 5 options, a mix of various game aspects, so that everyone has endeavours close to their wheelhouse. It's not ZOS trying to encourage people into all aspects, it's because ZOS know not everyone does.

It can be a bit of both.

. And it is.

And you know how I know that? Because if it was truly only about ensuring all players had accessible endeavors, they could all be very basic game play activities that almost everyone does and/or more broadly applicable. Imagine endeavors like.... "Loot 1,000 gold or tel var today." "Complete one achievement." "Use three wayshrines." "Log 30 minutes of playtime today." "Open the Crown Store." "Interact with 6 NPCs." "Visit 5 different areas of Tamriel." "Experience elemental damage in combat today." "Queue up for one activity (Group Finder, Dungeon Finder, ToT, BG all count.)." "Complete 5 repeatable quests." "Participate in any chat today (zone, whisper, etc.)." "Earn one CP level, character level, or alliance rank." "Sprint both on a mount and on foot once." "Preview 3 items in the Crown Store." "Log in more than once today."

There are tons of items like this I can think of, off the top of my head, that could apply to almost all players regardless of the activities they like to enjoy - although I'm sure some of you could argue with even these.

Not only that, but sometimes we do get things like "sell items to merchants" or "gather logs" or "eat three foods" which, even if you weren't going to do those things naturally, are activities that don't require engaging in any specific kind of content to complete. Which means ZOS knows how to make endeavors that are broadly accessible but they purposely put in activities that people might not otherwise try, as carrots. If they wanted them to be more time consuming, they could increase the amount in the endeavors (complete 10 repeatable quests, log an hour of play, etc.) without having to resort to dropping in more specific choices. But, instead, they give us specific wording arranged around content type with some broad ones that are not content specific peppered in once in a while. This is intentional.

DenverRalphy · September 10

Blood_again wrote: »

Currently I play BGs daily. Why are you trying to take out my easy endeavor points for the activity I already do? Just because you don't like your random mates?

When you go random, you get random players in your group.
If you wanna have some good and motivated teammates, just run a premade group.

Also working MMR would be good, if there were many players eager to join BGs.
What you suggest is actually draining the player queue which is really poor already. Meeting with the same people in BGs again and again won't lie.

^^^^^^^^^___________The most sensible comment in this entire thread.

Veinblood1965 · September 11

Jordan_Black wrote: »

I wonder how many people both complain that "BGs are dying" but also protest when the game at large tries to encourage people who don't normally play BGs to try out the feature.

The answer is 49. It's always been 49 and it will always be 49, no more, no less. Hope that helps? Lol

Iriidius · September 11

Ishtarknows wrote: »

Queuing for a BG without any attempt at gearing up for it or not attempting to perform the objectives should be looked upon the same as fake tanking or healing in dungeons. Fake queuing for PvP isn't fair on the rest of your team. Sure, as someone suggested the other team might get a quick, easy win (lucky them) but what about the team you're on?

If ZoS had working MMR system those „fake PvPer“ would just fight other „fake PvPers“ and real PvPers would fight real PvPers not getting useless teammates and everyone could have fun (except the players farming PvErs than zerging the rest).

Iriidius · September 11

Blood_again wrote: »

Currently I play BGs daily. Why are you trying to take out my easy endeavor points for the activity I already do? Just because you don't like your random mates?

When you go random, you get random players in your group.
If you wanna have some good and motivated teammates, just run a premade group.

Also working MMR would be good, if there were many players eager to join BGs.
What you suggest is actually draining the player queue which is really poor already. Meeting with the same people in BGs again and again won't lie.

Could easily replace battleground endeavour with one that everyone doing battlegrounds does anyway like cast x ultimates/skills/dodgerolls and you would still without extrawork get your endeavours.

Many PvPer play solobattlegrounds because they do not a premade and it is the only place where you dont have to fight premades and where you get group without recruiting it yourself.

Getting a premade means you must use premade queue fighting against other premades with premadebuilds and voicechat and need those too to compete or otherwise wait longer in queue to get an even worse experience then in solobattleground with randoms.

Randoms should be random player of same Strength and MMR(if fixxed) not a player of total random or lowest skill.

Iriidius · September 11

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

Maybe there just needs to be a vengeance type BG, that way newbies will sort of be on a level playing field.

That way both newbies could have fun and good players not loose for having useless random teammate or get no challenge because opponent has.

Could replace 4v4 that many want remove anyway or create additional.

joshisanonymous · September 11

By the same token, you could complain about dungeon endeavors because it brings PvP players who don't care to set themselves up for PvE into dungeons where they make runs more of a headache than they need to be.

I mean, I get your point, but the idea is obviously to give all types of players endeavors for doing what they would normally want to do anyway. I honestly don't know why a PvE player would choose a PvP endeavor anyway when there are always other options.

Thumbless_Bot · September 11

joshisanonymous wrote: »

By the same token, you could complain about dungeon endeavors because it brings PvP players who don't care to set themselves up for PvE into dungeons where they make runs more of a headache than they need to be.

I mean, I get your point, but the idea is obviously to give all types of players endeavors for doing what they would normally want to do anyway. I honestly don't know why a PvE player would choose a PvP endeavor anyway when there are always other options.

This is a great point. If you queue for pve you should have a build that at least resembles the role you queue in for, even if it's not the best/meta pve build.

The difference is that in the vast majority of dungeons you can get away with an okay build and mechanics can be shared in real time. This isn't the case in pvp. The learning curve is incredible steep in immense. It's the equivalent of dumping a new player into the hardest trial hard mode in beginner zone overland gear. The impact is much greater.

Ishtarknows · September 12

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Ishtarknows wrote: »

Queuing for a BG without any attempt at gearing up for it or not attempting to perform the objectives should be looked upon the same as fake tanking or healing in dungeons. Fake queuing for PvP isn't fair on the rest of your team. Sure, as someone suggested the other team might get a quick, easy win (lucky them) but what about the team you're on?

I disagree. Fake tanking can be solved by using a single skill. Builds are things that require many hours of planning. It's reasonable to expect people have the basic skills. It's not reasonable to expect people have full kits and an total understanding of what they're doing before they have even started. There needs to be room to be bad at the game, especially at the beginning.

The game requires a completely different skill set to PvE vs PvP, it's not as simple as slapping on one skill in the flex spot on your bar.

You don't need a full PvP set up. Having more than 18k health is the bare minimum for starters! Wearing PvE tank gear will give you more than one hit's chance of actually helping your team etc. It's just putting a little bit of effort in. No food and all light armour is akin to griefing.

Dock01 · September 13

Don't get me wrong bg is fully flawed and i can see why people hate it, but you dont have to win for this endeavor. They're just asking you to do 1 bg win or lose, which i have to give credit to zos when credit is due and ya i do bg daily etc so everytime i see this endev popping up i dint even notice i completed it so nooo dont remove it

Blood_again · September 13

Iriidius wrote: »

Blood_again wrote: »

Currently I play BGs daily. Why are you trying to take out my easy endeavor points for the activity I already do? Just because you don't like your random mates?

When you go random, you get random players in your group.
If you wanna have some good and motivated teammates, just run a premade group.

Also working MMR would be good, if there were many players eager to join BGs.
What you suggest is actually draining the player queue which is really poor already. Meeting with the same people in BGs again and again won't lie.

Could easily replace battleground endeavour with one that everyone doing battlegrounds does anyway like cast x ultimates/skills/dodgerolls and you would still without extrawork get your endeavours.

Many PvPer play solobattlegrounds because they do not a premade and it is the only place where you dont have to fight premades and where you get group without recruiting it yourself.

Getting a premade means you must use premade queue fighting against other premades with premadebuilds and voicechat and need those too to compete or otherwise wait longer in queue to get an even worse experience then in solobattleground with randoms.

Randoms should be random player of same Strength and MMR(if fixxed) not a player of total random or lowest skill.

It is great to know what the random should be. I would vote for it, sure.
Now let's get back to the ground and check what we really have in the game.

The queue is poor. Just as a fact.
Making MMR work the way you want will raise the queue time according to your competence level.
Did OP say he had 3 OK players of 12? He would have queue time x4 in a very optimistic scenario.
You can just create a poll how long people are ready to wait in a queue, and whether they are ready to wait four times longer than today.

How could we fill the queue more?
ZoS try, but you and OP want quality, not quantity, right?
There is an option: attract people to BG community, play with them in a group, teach them. As a result, you might have fun and get more new competent pvp players at the same time.

In a real world we have a situation quite as you said: the player doesn't create a group, doesn't attract new players to BGs and does nothing to raise the competence of the existing ones.
No, the player just runs random and wants the game to cater to him many good players there. Also please make those bad players do not join my BGs, because they spoil my game, yes

Somehow it doesn't work this way. Any guess why?

katanagirl1 · September 14

I understand OP’s compIaint. PvE players have stated that they explicitly do not do anything during these BGs to get credit. In my book that is not participating and wish there was a way to not give them credit. They should get in there with their PvE gear and skills and do the best they can. Unless they get a CTR match it will be over in 5-10 minutes and that’s certainly tolerable for them even if losing badly.

That’s the real problem with this.

Techwolf_Lupindo · September 14

This is why I don't play BattleGrounds. It would take over 20 plus BG to complete this one task.

Ticket number: 250313-000518

AcadianPaladin · September 14

@katanagirl1 I agree. I stated early in this thread that I simply don't do BGs because I don't enjoy PvP. 10 or 15 endeavor seals is nothing compared to the lack of courtesy required to join a BG group and not make a solid effort to help your group, regardless of your skill or equipment. Seems to me that common courtesy to other players is a big part of the problem OP highlights. Even worse, I think, than queuing for a group dungeon as a fake tank or fake healer.

Vampryss · September 14

aaaand, it's players like OP that I don't engage in BG's. It's too serious and takes all the fun out of just trying to play. I've tried to learn how to play, and have been met with nothing but hostility in the BG arena. So I stopped trying and avoid BG's altogether.

Gabriel_H · September 15

Techwolf_Lupindo wrote: »

This is why I don't play BattleGrounds. It would take over 20 plus BG to complete this one task.

Ticket number: 250313-000518

Avoid 8 v 8 - Relic Capture is terrible for points.
Spec a good group heal.
Spam it.
Get 2,000 pts.

Islyn · September 15

Xarc wrote: »

You know why ?

because MOST OF PEOPLE DONT CARE PVP and :
- RUIN every BG
- dont have any PVP skill, just here for daily, they die on one shot, litterally

Everytime this is the same scenario. PLEASE STOP .

Or change it to "WIN a BG", maybe that will motivate them to jump into the arena and play a little more seriously?

And yet we have PVP people in DLC vet dungeons, with bows doing less dps than my raid geared healer, or s&b who don't actually TAUNT and tank.

*MANY* PVP people are the most hypocritical ever - play PVE like utter tosh, and then have the *nerve* to complain having to handle the same consequence?

Also: I know more REALLY HIGH cp urn farmers than any others that high, and I was an active end game trial raider for YEARS.

No offence - but it is a game - roll with it and just carry them, or requeue; same as we have to when someone wrecks our pledges.

Xarc · September 15

Islyn wrote: »

And yet we have PVP people in DLC vet dungeons, with bows doing less dps than my raid geared healer, or s&b who don't actually TAUNT and tank.

not sure but, real pvp players dont even use bows to farm VET dlc dungeons. You met people you decided there were pvp players but theses kind of dudes are oneshot in cyrodiil. And in BG they spam bow from the edge of the spawn point... We fighting the same thing, man.

Blood_again wrote: »

The queue is poor. Just as a fact.
Making MMR work the way you want will raise the queue time according to your competence level.
Did OP say he had 3 OK players of 12? He would have queue time x4 in a very optimistic scenario.
[...]

How could we fill the queue more?
ZoS try, but you and OP want quality, not quantity, right?
There is an option: attract people to BG community, play with them in a group, teach them. As a result, you might have fun and get more new competent pvp players at the same time.

I'll tell you: if I had some kind of MMR score, displayed somewhere in the HUD, for example if the mmr is divided into league 1 to 5 where your MMR points make you move from one league to another, and if I know that I'm in league 1 and that I can't go higher, I wouldn't be against always playing against the same 15 players, I would accept it much more easily than there, while I sometimes play with people who are obviously setting foot in BG for the first time.

BG isn't Cyrodiil. I'm not a BG teacher. It's not my job to teach others how to play.

But the problem is what I said in the first post. Bringing players who never practice BG is a good thing, but don't force others to team up with them if the level gap is too big. Especially since they don't even come to fight and even less to win, they are just there to "participate in a BG" to get their endeavor.

Daoin · September 15

even if it were j

Vampryss wrote: »

aaaand, it's players like OP that I don't engage in BG's. It's too serious and takes all the fun out of just trying to play. I've tried to learn how to play, and have been met with nothing but hostility in the BG arena. So I stopped trying and avoid BG's altogether.

take some advice, dont be the one in the crowd to follow suit and start taking BG's too seriosly. if someone pm's you with trash chat, trash chat them back and play on. i cannot really say in present day BG's if it is as easy to just queue till your happy, but one persons trash chat is another persons group to join in the old ones, if i could claim a penny for everytime i wish i could see someones face with the replies i was forced to send i would be a rich player but i always got the outcomes i wanted, but yeah anything i do now is in offline mode to help others with the temptation of trying a pm in my direction

rage on folks

moderatelyfatman · September 15

Xarc wrote: »

You know why ?

because MOST OF PEOPLE DONT CARE PVP and :
- RUIN every BG
- dont have any PVP skill, just here for daily, they die on one shot, litterally

Everytime this is the same scenario. PLEASE STOP .

Or change it to "WIN a BG", maybe that will motivate them to jump into the arena and play a little more seriously?

They should change it to 'Get Farmed Repeatedly in a BG'. At least that's achievable.

Blood_again · September 17

Xarc wrote: »

I'll tell you: if I had some kind of MMR score, displayed somewhere in the HUD, for example if the mmr is divided into league 1 to 5 where your MMR points make you move from one league to another, and if I know that I'm in league 1 and that I can't go higher, I wouldn't be against always playing against the same 15 players, I would accept it much more easily than there, while I sometimes play with people who are obviously setting foot in BG for the first time.

I guess you're in minority on that point, because you can play with those 15 only when at least a half are online and queuing... But well, ZoS might create a separate queue for that league.
Also, if you are near league 1 and so lonely wolf, do you play 8v8 or 4v4 randoms? 4v4 competitive randoms have way more competent players, if you ask me. Is it possible that you are not amused with your mates just because you entered the wrong room?

Xarc wrote: »

BG isn't Cyrodiil. I'm not a BG teacher. It's not my job to teach others how to play.

But the problem is what I said in the first post. Bringing players who never practice BG is a good thing, but don't force others to team up with them if the level gap is too big. Especially since they don't even come to fight and even less to win, they are just there to "participate in a BG" to get their endeavor.

Why take it as a job? It is an opportunity to change the situation a little, when you don't like it.
It doesn't even require stopping grumbling about how bad it is all

Depends on what you really want. If you want more competent players, you can bring them in with your activity. If you want to isolate, to play with your somekind of elite club, well you might better ask for private BGs feature. Something like duels+

Xarc · September 17

Blood_again wrote: »

Why take it as a job? It is an opportunity to change the situation a little, when you don't like it.
It doesn't even require stopping grumbling about how bad it is all

Depends on what you really want. If you want more competent players, you can bring them in with your activity. If you want to isolate, to play with your somekind of elite club, well you might better ask for private BGs feature. Something like duels+

I've been playing Cyrodiil since 2014. I led LFG groups for 5-6 years and then in zone chat. But there's nothing more annoying than leading randoms who don't know anything. I know what it's like. So, like many, I stopped and ended up playing solo or solo in a group.

many players don't even read chat
even if they read, nobody is listening
who AM I to tell other what to do ?

That's also why I play BG. I wanted something different.
I want something other than having to play PvP teacher. That's the whole point of BG for me: I log in, play for 5-15 minutes, I get my xp & my fun, and that's it, and then repeat with another character.
And, before you tell me: no, losing is not fun for me.

In ESO, there are two types of people: those who do PvP, and those who don't.

To get back to the original topic, that's exactly it. There are people who just want a free endeavor, who know nothing about PvP, and who, because of the bad system implemented by ZOS, ruin the game for other players.

Blood_again · September 17

Xarc wrote: »

who AM I to tell other what to do ?

Respect to your experience.
As for this question... you just told me who you are, and it sounded respectable enough

Good advice in non-toxic way is never odd.
A good piece of advice that is untold, it is up to you.
A good piece of advice that was told but ignored, it is up to them.

Xarc wrote: »

In ESO, there are two types of people: those who do PvP, and those who don't.

To get back to the original topic, that's exactly it. There are people who just want a free endeavor, who know nothing about PvP, and who, because of the bad system implemented by ZOS, ruin the game for other players.

I don't agree. Being fed of teaching newcomers years ago, you might rationalize it as "there are such types of people". In a closer look you might see people on different stages of the learning curve.
I've seen plenty of times that simple "whatever you do, please do it on flag" turned the round. Not always, but...
Being silent in game is a choice, not a destiny.