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The writing for the upcoming story content - some thoughts on the latest news article
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metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭Well, he's lucky his reputation is already set on both sides: Worm Cultists worship him; Stirk Fellowship members hate him. So, really, it didn't matter what he said; no one was going to change their minds!
If I had been in his place, I'd probably have said something really strange and unexpected just to confuse everyone. I'm a Telvanni, everything is a potential experiment for me.
Yes, but he's an Altmer. He'll never be able to completely shake that. It makes him do things to form at the oddest times.
Well, I freed him, too. But I also sacrificed Lyris, and she came back. So maybe my freeing him didn't take, as it were. Though I do like the idea of spirit Mannimarco roaming Coldharbour and taking a few Azure Plasm plunges.How long have they had to build a place over there? Or maybe they just occupied a Xanmeer.
They also managed to build the pillars of that huge glowing wall within short time. Or who knows, maybe they just teleported a castle? It's not like they never teleported random things before.
Lol...what if they teleported his old place from Coldharbour? I mean, seems nothing is out of reach for their teleports.What did his place in Coldharbour look like? Was it castle-like? I think it might have been. We fell a pretty long way down as we escaped after rescuing Abnur. So, he was already a princess in a castle, and probably, in keeping with the theme, the Worm Cult would have built him another castle. Or dessed up a Xanmeer to look like one. That's my totally and completely serious take on the subject.
That's what it looked like:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/File:ON-place-Castle_of_the_Worm.jpg
I mean...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cinderella_Castle,_Magic_Kingdom_Walt_Disney_World_(2024).jpg
Makes me wonder whether his new castle is still adorned with lots of depictions of almost nude bald human men...
https://images.uesp.net/e/ef/ON-misc-Tower_of_Bones_Wall.jpg
https://images.uesp.net/c/c7/ON-place-Castle_Cistern_02.jpg
Or whether he goes for strange statues of Vanny already. Maybe prototypes for the 100 ft one he created later in Scourg Barrow.
You're making me laugh so much! But I need it; been an anxious sort of day. So yea, basically confirmed: Mannimarco is a princess. I always did wonder about the statuary and wall adornments in his place. Maybe we'll get captured in part 2 and get to have an interesting conversation with Mannimarco. Maybe we can bring up his decorating tastes.
Just...no. I have to draw the line somewhere, and I draw it at Sloads. Freaking overgrown slugs.What I didn't understand about that betrayal is that not only did no one see it coming, once it did happen, no one acted like it was that big of a deal. Azah and the Midconjurer were a bit out of sorts, but when we found Gabrielle and told her, her attitude came across as, "Huh, how about that." No one even wondered why Faranor did it. They just accepted that she was secretly a Worm Cultist all along. Unless I missed something?
They didn't care much about the death in the prologue either. No one really cares for anything anymore, it seems. Maybe emotions are unsafe nowadays, too.
Honestly, compared to them, a certain necromancer seems to be the most lively person in that chapter. He's passionate about what he's doing, at least. Which also doesn't exactly make me hate him (like I seem to be supposed to do), but it actually makes him feel more likeable compared to the rest (as a fictional character, of course)?! But maybe I'm just weird in my stance that what matters most is that a character in a story shows emotions and, well, a distinctive character, no matter if their thoughts and goals are "good" or "evil". If an npc is just some emotionally shallow whatever I couldn't care less.
There was a little bit of emotion at the end, but not nearly enough, considering. I don't think it's weird to want characters to show emotion and be distinctive. One of the reasons I can't stand Rigurt and Lady Laurent is they are so one-note and shallow. What's also bad is that characters that used to have more to them have been turned into emotionally shallow caricatures. I think it says something that we haven't spent pages talking about Azah or any of the other Stirk people the way we have Vanny, Mannimarco, and Wormblood (in both threads).Anyway, quite the zany plot twist indeed if, one by one, the Stirk Fellowship pulled a Faranor.
To see the alliance collapsing would be interesting. And honestly, there would be good reasons for that. And also, a certain someone could try to contribute to it
But I know it won't happen. It's a "we all peacefully get along (except for the faction defined as the evil baddies)" story, after all.
I know, but there should be tensions in the Stirk Fellowship. The three banners war is still going on, isn't it? Those High Isle peace talks got us all of nowhere, right? So then when all the alliances have to come together, even in a common cause, there's bound to be incidents. Some people in the Loremaster's Archive thread have posed questions about the supposed neutrality of the guilds, considering that the crown prince of the Redguards is the interim guild leader and the Mages Guild was being led by another Covenant loyalist. That should be creating tensions.I've been venturing through Coldharbour again lately, and nothing is safe there. So if part of Coldharbour is now on eastern Solstice, it shouldn't be safe there. So you can ask Vanny whatever questions you want, providing you have the appropriate setting!
I have my doubts. It's not 2018 anymore
Well, fire up your time-travel abilities and solve the problem!
I want Vanny as a houseguest so he can finally have a home! And then I'll come rescue your Vanny, and then I'll have two! Then I can watch them try to out-brag one another.
Why can't you ever leave my guests alone?! Vanny of all things, who would be really, really happy, being tied up in a dark cell and having no responsibilities at all! That's basically like being on vacation. For a very long time.
Listen, it's your fault for having such interesting prisoners! If you would only be content to have run of the mill boring people in your basement cells, I wouldn't care. But no, you always have to go for the notable ones.
Ok, then. What have you not tried?
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metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭mdjessup4906 wrote: »Where is this giant statue of vanus you all keep talking about? I want to see.
It's not in game. It's from the UESP site.
Galerion's visage was later captured in a morbid one hundred foot tall statue inside Scourg Barrow, constructed of decayed bodies and bones.[UOL 5]
The UOL (unofficial lore) refers to: Ted Peterson's posts in War of the Wormgod
Considering what it's made of, I'm fine never actually seeing it rendered in game.
Edited by metheglyn on 4 July 2025 05:431 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, I freed him, too. But I also sacrificed Lyris, and she came back. So maybe my freeing him didn't take, as it were. Though I do like the idea of spirit Mannimarco roaming Coldharbour and taking a few Azure Plasm plunges.
Imagine what other wonderous hobbies he could have picked up! Maybe nothing as strange as Vanny's hobbies, but still.
While we're at it: I keep returning to the thought how, if things turned out just a little different, Mannimarco and Vanny could have just stayed together and happily lived according to their, uhm, tendencies in a more socially acceptable and less world-threatening way. It's really tragic. Everyone would be so much happier, especially probably the inhabitants of Nirn who wouldn't have to fear for their lives.Lol...what if they teleported his old place from Coldharbour? I mean, seems nothing is out of reach for their teleports.
Teleportation magic is an odd thing. It could be used to kidnap random people of interest, like Vanny. Or to steal random artifacts. Or Nirn could be merged with Coldharbour by just teleporting random items from Coldharbour to Nirn or the other way round, until everything is the way it should. Maybe I should suggest that. Maybe we should start with smaller things. Animals, plants, furniture? We could swap some Coldharbour rock with a some boring apple tree, or an ogrim with someone's wife.You're making me laugh so much! But I need it; been an anxious sort of day. So yea, basically confirmed: Mannimarco is a princess.
Not only a princess, but the prettiest necromancer princess of whole Nirn and beyond. And because most people don't acknowledge that, he has to make them pay. All of them.I always did wonder about the statuary and wall adornments in his place. Maybe we'll get captured in part 2 and get to have an interesting conversation with Mannimarco. Maybe we can bring up his decorating tastes.
The one relief with the two suffering figures looks quite nice, actually. Well, from an artistic perspective. But all those statues that look more or less the same... There would be a few things to discuss. I'd also want to discuss his poetry, of course.There was a little bit of emotion at the end, but not nearly enough, considering. I don't think it's weird to want characters to show emotion and be distinctive.
If you'd ask me what makes a fictional character interesting, I'd truly say: Passion. Passions of what ever kind, something they strongly strive for, no matter how horrible it might be. Willful characters who do their own thing. People with visions, no matter how big or small (Sotha Sil certainly has a very ambitious vision, but even characters like Revus who don't change much about the world overall are interesting, if they clearly show a distinctive character through personal interests beyond the absolutely common stuff). You rather remember those, not the lukewarm ones who might be "nice" but don't really seem to care much for anything (except maybe for some general "the baddie has to be defeated" stance and having a drink after the big victory, but that's hardly remarkable).What's also bad is that characters that used to have more to them have been turned into emotionally shallow caricatures.
Makes me wonder why, whenever that happens. One could get the feeling that there's generally a misconception that the audience would not appreciate complex things (narrations, characters, riddles,...) and "the easier = the better". I don't think that's true. Not even for a mass market product.I think it says something that we haven't spent pages talking about Azah or any of the other Stirk people the way we have Vanny, Mannimarco, and Wormblood (in both threads).
I think what causes that in case of Mannimarco and Vanny is truly what we saw on Artaeum. That led to a lot of questions, mainly how their early life looked like, what might have made them the way they are, how their relationship to each other looked like (and how things could end that badly - they had been close friends or even more, after all), the time shortly after Artaeum,... Just those few short flashbacks led to so many questions! We never had anything like that for Azah or Skordo or anyone else of the Stirk people, really.I know, but there should be tensions in the Stirk Fellowship. The three banners war is still going on, isn't it? Those High Isle peace talks got us all of nowhere, right? So then when all the alliances have to come together, even in a common cause, there's bound to be incidents. Some people in the Loremaster's Archive thread have posed questions about the supposed neutrality of the guilds, considering that the crown prince of the Redguards is the interim guild leader and the Mages Guild was being led by another Covenant loyalist. That should be creating tensions.
I really want to see some problems show up because of that - but I doubt we will get anything like that in Part 2.
Also, choosing two Covenant people for those roles was a weird decision, isn't it? But maybe they didn't think about that... Because if they did, they would have some npc voice doubts at least, right?Well, fire up your time-travel abilities and solve the problem!
Are you sure you'd want to live in a 2025 formed according to my visions?Listen, it's your fault for having such interesting prisoners! If you would only be content to have run of the mill boring people in your basement cells, I wouldn't care. But no, you always have to go for the notable ones.
Why would I kidnap boring people? That would be a waste of time! And in the worst case, I would end up with individuals like the Breton where I don't really know what to do with them, and nobody wants them back either. It's honestly very dissatisfying and makes me suffer even more than Mannimarco suffers from his idiot cultists!Ok, then. What have you not tried?
I haven't tried shooting a human to one of the moons with a huge cannon. Yet.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭Well, I freed him, too. But I also sacrificed Lyris, and she came back. So maybe my freeing him didn't take, as it were. Though I do like the idea of spirit Mannimarco roaming Coldharbour and taking a few Azure Plasm plunges.
Imagine what other wonderous hobbies he could have picked up! Maybe nothing as strange as Vanny's hobbies, but still.
While we're at it: I keep returning to the thought how, if things turned out just a little different, Mannimarco and Vanny could have just stayed together and happily lived according to their, uhm, tendencies in a more socially acceptable and less world-threatening way. It's really tragic. Everyone would be so much happier, especially probably the inhabitants of Nirn who wouldn't have to fear for their lives.
You don't think, even in that scenario, Mannimarco would have tried for godhood? He might have even succeeded if he had Vanny to help him achieve it. Or are you thinking a Nirn ruled by him would be for the greater good?Lol...what if they teleported his old place from Coldharbour? I mean, seems nothing is out of reach for their teleports.
Teleportation magic is an odd thing. It could be used to kidnap random people of interest, like Vanny. Or to steal random artifacts. Or Nirn could be merged with Coldharbour by just teleporting random items from Coldharbour to Nirn or the other way round, until everything is the way it should. Maybe I should suggest that. Maybe we should start with smaller things. Animals, plants, furniture? We could swap some Coldharbour rock with a some boring apple tree, or an ogrim with someone's wife.
Give it a try and see how that works out!You're making me laugh so much! But I need it; been an anxious sort of day. So yea, basically confirmed: Mannimarco is a princess.
Not only a princess, but the prettiest necromancer princess of whole Nirn and beyond. And because most people don't acknowledge that, he has to make them pay. All of them.
Can't he at least go a little easy on those who do acknowledge it?I always did wonder about the statuary and wall adornments in his place. Maybe we'll get captured in part 2 and get to have an interesting conversation with Mannimarco. Maybe we can bring up his decorating tastes.
The one relief with the two suffering figures looks quite nice, actually. Well, from an artistic perspective. But all those statues that look more or less the same... There would be a few things to discuss. I'd also want to discuss his poetry, of course.
I wondered if those statues and that relief were supposed to be actual people transformed into stone. People running for their lives, or suffering in agony, and then he transformed them because...well, why not. If you discuss his poetry, make sure to bring up the fact that he called it a rhyming biography, but the rhyming was, shall we say, hard to find.What's also bad is that characters that used to have more to them have been turned into emotionally shallow caricatures.
Makes me wonder why, whenever that happens. One could get the feeling that there's generally a misconception that the audience would not appreciate complex things (narrations, characters, riddles,...) and "the easier = the better". I don't think that's true. Not even for a mass market product.
I wonder if it could also be a case of the time between appearances of the characters in game, and different writers, or several writers working on the same character. It could be hard to maintain a consistent character voice when it's years between appearances by that character, or someone else starts writing for them.I think it says something that we haven't spent pages talking about Azah or any of the other Stirk people the way we have Vanny, Mannimarco, and Wormblood (in both threads).
I think what causes that in case of Mannimarco and Vanny is truly what we saw on Artaeum. That led to a lot of questions, mainly how their early life looked like, what might have made them the way they are, how their relationship to each other looked like (and how things could end that badly - they had been close friends or even more, after all), the time shortly after Artaeum,... Just those few short flashbacks led to so many questions! We never had anything like that for Azah or Skordo or anyone else of the Stirk people, really.
It's true we haven't had a look into these characters' pasts like that, but Skordo, Gabrielle, Walks, and Raz have been in the game since the beginning, and some of them have shown up in more recent content. (Maybe Walks is the only one we don't see after the base game? Struggling to remember if she ever showed up in any of the chapters or fourth quarter DLC). Seems like we should have more to talk about with them, or be more interested in them.I know, but there should be tensions in the Stirk Fellowship. The three banners war is still going on, isn't it? Those High Isle peace talks got us all of nowhere, right? So then when all the alliances have to come together, even in a common cause, there's bound to be incidents. Some people in the Loremaster's Archive thread have posed questions about the supposed neutrality of the guilds, considering that the crown prince of the Redguards is the interim guild leader and the Mages Guild was being led by another Covenant loyalist. That should be creating tensions.
I really want to see some problems show up because of that - but I doubt we will get anything like that in Part 2.
Also, choosing two Covenant people for those roles was a weird decision, isn't it? But maybe they didn't think about that... Because if they did, they would have some npc voice doubts at least, right?
Vanny pretty much just pointed at Azah and said, "You lead the fighters guild for now." He probably didn't consider the political aspect of it, because he likes to think of the two guilds as inherently neutral. Then Gabrielle just sort of picked up Vanny's staff and everyone let her run things. As to whether or not the writers considered the implication of that, I don't know. Certainly doesn't seem like it.
Could it be much worse than the 2025 we've got now?
You wouldn't! That's what I'm saying: it's completely your fault!That would be a waste of time! And in the worst case, I would end up with individuals like the Breton where I don't really know what to do with them, and nobody wants them back either. It's honestly very dissatisfying and makes me suffer even more than Mannimarco suffers from his idiot cultists!
Poor, poor you. You should do like Mannimarco and write a book about it. Better yet, an epic poem!
Do cannons exist in Tamriel? Oh, are you going to invent them? I mean, you could try a trebuchet first, just to cross it off the variable list. At any rate, take good notes so I can read them later!0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You don't think, even in that scenario, Mannimarco would have tried for godhood?
Who knows. Usually, relationships keep one rather busy, especially at that age, so there might not be much time for godhood plans with Vanny demanding attention Also, Vanny might have been a positive influence in the end, over a longer period of time.He might have even succeeded if he had Vanny to help him achieve it.
The question really is who would have corrupted whom in the end.Or are you thinking a Nirn ruled by him would be for the greater good?
Depends on the specifics. The Planemeld sounds a little nonsensical; maybe he could have come up with something else instead?Give it a try and see how that works out!
Okay. Randomly kidnapping people and dropping them off in Coldharbour, and replacing them with daedra... to the surprise or sometimes joy of their family. What could go wrong?!Can't he at least go a little easy on those who do acknowledge it?
Maybe he'll offer us to reign by his side, etc (the same things he probably promises his high-ranked cultists). Or maybe a nice private chamber in his dark Disney castle, at least.I wondered if those statues and that relief were supposed to be actual people transformed into stone. People running for their lives, or suffering in agony, and then he transformed them because...well, why not.
I wondered that too for a moment, but why would they all be bald nude human males (unless of course he hates bald human males for some reason and wants to be reminded of their suffering the whole day) and how would he be able to turn them into stone? If he had that ability, wouldn't he have just used it on us or our allies at some point?If you discuss his poetry, make sure to bring up the fact that he called it a rhyming biography, but the rhyming was, shall we say, hard to find.
I will, but I bet he'll be really upset then.I wonder if it could also be a case of the time between appearances of the characters in game, and different writers, or several writers working on the same character. It could be hard to maintain a consistent character voice when it's years between appearances by that character, or someone else starts writing for them.
That might be a factor, but does it really explain why some characters who were more nuanced suddenly become one-dimensional and less complex? I mean, even if they err about the exact characterization, the new idea of that npc could still be a complex one (even if it doesn't fit the old one)? But it usually isn't.It's true we haven't had a look into these characters' pasts like that, but Skordo, Gabrielle, Walks, and Raz have been in the game since the beginning, and some of them have shown up in more recent content. (Maybe Walks is the only one we don't see after the base game? Struggling to remember if she ever showed up in any of the chapters or fourth quarter DLC). Seems like we should have more to talk about with them, or be more interested in them.
The important factor is not how often they appear but what they're doing (and most of all, whether any of that is remarkable).
Of those few, the one I really like a bit is Gabrielle, and that might be no coincidence because we do know a bit more details about her interests and her way of thinking, not only based on the quests where she's involved, but also on the excavation notes for many antiquity items.
The other ones? All we get seems rather one-dimensional and, well, at least to me not that interesting.Then Gabrielle just sort of picked up Vanny's staff and everyone let her run things.
Weren't we supposed to catch the staff? Maybe Vanny did that with an intention in mind? Then again, I'm happy I don't have to lead that book club now. Too much of a hassle.Could it be much worse than the 2025 we've got now?
Hard to say, as the year isn't over yet.Poor, poor you. You should do like Mannimarco and write a book about it. Better yet, an epic poem!
Nah, I just decided the Breton makes a suitable assistant for the trebuchet experiment. Finally he has found his purpose!@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭
The unanswerable question, alas. Why did we send Ithelia away again? Think of all we could have learned traveling the different paths.
I got the impression the Planemeld was Molag Bal's big idea, and Mannimarco went along with it because it didn't actually matter to him and his plans for godhood. It would be nonsensical for Mannimarco to want to merge Coldharbour and Nirn if what he was really after was being a god. Then again, this revitalized Worm Cult seems to be all about that, so maybe he did want a combo world.
Everything!
You can have my room, in that case. Just cut a hole in the wall, call it a door, and then you'll have a suite. Not that I don't appreciate the offer of a private room, but I don't think he'd let me redecorate, and I really just can't with his aesthetic.I wondered if those statues and that relief were supposed to be actual people transformed into stone. People running for their lives, or suffering in agony, and then he transformed them because...well, why not.
I wondered that too for a moment, but why would they all be bald nude human males (unless of course he hates bald human males for some reason and wants to be reminded of their suffering the whole day) and how would he be able to turn them into stone? If he had that ability, wouldn't he have just used it on us or our allies at some point?
I assumed they were just victims his cultists scooped up for him. Not sure how he might have turned them to stone. Alchemy? Crafted up a potion, they drank it, and turned to stone mid-stride or as they writhed in agony during the transformation? And when it comes to facing off against us, it's that curious plot armor we wear that lets us succeed.
Meh, upset seems to be his default setting, so no harm done.I wonder if it could also be a case of the time between appearances of the characters in game, and different writers, or several writers working on the same character. It could be hard to maintain a consistent character voice when it's years between appearances by that character, or someone else starts writing for them.
That might be a factor, but does it really explain why some characters who were more nuanced suddenly become one-dimensional and less complex? I mean, even if they err about the exact characterization, the new idea of that npc could still be a complex one (even if it doesn't fit the old one)? But it usually isn't.
It's hard to say. That characters have changed, and not for the better in my opinion, seems pretty clear. It's possible it's as simple as different tastes in what makes an enjoyable character.It's true we haven't had a look into these characters' pasts like that, but Skordo, Gabrielle, Walks, and Raz have been in the game since the beginning, and some of them have shown up in more recent content. (Maybe Walks is the only one we don't see after the base game? Struggling to remember if she ever showed up in any of the chapters or fourth quarter DLC). Seems like we should have more to talk about with them, or be more interested in them.
The important factor is not how often they appear but what they're doing (and most of all, whether any of that is remarkable).
Of those few, the one I really like a bit is Gabrielle, and that might be no coincidence because we do know a bit more details about her interests and her way of thinking, not only based on the quests where she's involved, but also on the excavation notes for many antiquity items.
The other ones? All we get seems rather one-dimensional and, well, at least to me not that interesting.
But that's what I meant. For as much and as long as they've been around, we should have learned more about them. There should be more to their characters.
I forgot about Darien earlier, and I think he does have something more to him earlier on. His whole life he's had dreams of the Coloured Rooms (though he doesn't know that's what they are at that point) and you do get the sense it's affected how he acts and approaches life. I think there was also some family strife between him and his father; or, if not strife, than a strained relationship. But really any sense of any of that kind of got thrown out the window when he became Meridia's...what even is he? Champion? Errand boy?
Vanny told us to protect the staff and threw it in our general direction, but I don't think he had anyone in particular in mind. Or maybe he knew Gabrielle was the only one capable of deciphering its vague messages. Who is even leading the book club now? Walks? She has the staff. Maybe that's the staff's real power: whoever holds it leads the guild.
Well, that's a relief! Remember the notes!0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The unanswerable question, alas. Why did we send Ithelia away again? Think of all we could have learned traveling the different paths.
That thought of what we could have seen is somehow depressing.
Buy anyway, if there are different paths for everything, there should be several paths where Vanny got corrupted and also a few where Mannimarco gave up his godhood plans. In the end, there would be no winner. And the main question would be in which timeline we would have ended up.I got the impression the Planemeld was Molag Bal's big idea, and Mannimarco went along with it because it didn't actually matter to him and his plans for godhood. It would be nonsensical for Mannimarco to want to merge Coldharbour and Nirn if what he was really after was being a god. Then again, this revitalized Worm Cult seems to be all about that, so maybe he did want a combo world.
The question is whether he truly wants that or whether he's too uncritical about the norms and expectations imposed by society on necromancing individualsMaybe he truly just wants to be a princess.Everything!
But it's still a charming idea, no?You can have my room, in that case. Just cut a hole in the wall, call it a door, and then you'll have a suite. Not that I don't appreciate the offer of a private room, but I don't think he'd let me redecorate, and I really just can't with his aesthetic.
I don't like skulls that much either, especially if it's thousands of them; I told you I'm not too fond of people. Although if they're dead they don't annoy me with stupid chatter, at least So maybe it's not that bad...I assumed they were just victims his cultists scooped up for him. Not sure how he might have turned them to stone. Alchemy? Crafted up a potion, they drank it, and turned to stone mid-stride or as they writhed in agony during the transformation? And when it comes to facing off against us, it's that curious plot armor we wear that lets us succeed.
I think the Ayleids had methods for something like that, so... But anyway, somehow I'm wondering now whether the 100 ft statue he created of Vanny later was truly made from decaying corpses or from... hundreds of stone statues of bald nude human men. That was probably more horrifying or maybe also a tad more embarrassing so the author of that story rather reported corpses and bones instead.Meh, upset seems to be his default setting, so no harm done.
But what if he starts sobbing or even crying? If I see a crying mer, I have to protect that poor helpless little thing! Stupid instincts. Nothing helps.I forgot about Darien earlier, and I think he does have something more to him earlier on. His whole life he's had dreams of the Coloured Rooms (though he doesn't know that's what they are at that point) and you do get the sense it's affected how he acts and approaches life. I think there was also some family strife between him and his father; or, if not strife, than a strained relationship. But really any sense of any of that kind of got thrown out the window when he became Meridia's...what even is he? Champion? Errand boy?
Puppet.Vanny told us to protect the staff and threw it in our general direction, but I don't think he had anyone in particular in mind. Or maybe he knew Gabrielle was the only one capable of deciphering its vague messages. Who is even leading the book club now? Walks? She has the staff. Maybe that's the staff's real power: whoever holds it leads the guild.
Then we should probably be glad that it hasn't fallen into the hands of the Worm Cult. Yet.Well, that's a relief! Remember the notes!
If he makes it to the moon, I'm sure you'll hear gossip about it anyway!@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I got the impression the Planemeld was Molag Bal's big idea, and Mannimarco went along with it because it didn't actually matter to him and his plans for godhood. It would be nonsensical for Mannimarco to want to merge Coldharbour and Nirn if what he was really after was being a god. Then again, this revitalized Worm Cult seems to be all about that, so maybe he did want a combo world.
The question is whether he truly wants that or whether he's too uncritical about the norms and expectations imposed by society on necromancing individualsMaybe he truly just wants to be a princess.
While I do believe he does want the adulation that a princess often receives, I'm still not sure how much of the cultists' recent work was their own efforts to ingratiate themselves with Molag Bal, and how much of it was down to Mannimarco's supposed secret plan in case of disaster. What if he considers the Writhing Wall a shocking waste of souls? Although, I don't really know what he was doing with all those souls he took from everyone in the base game. He seemed to just be stockpiling them. At one point he had Tharn inspecting them as a form of torturous busy work, but I don't know that he was using them for much else.
Charming is not the word I would have chosen. I think you need someone like Cadwell to truly appreciate your design aims.You can have my room, in that case. Just cut a hole in the wall, call it a door, and then you'll have a suite. Not that I don't appreciate the offer of a private room, but I don't think he'd let me redecorate, and I really just can't with his aesthetic.
I don't like skulls that much either, especially if it's thousands of them; I told you I'm not too fond of people. Although if they're dead they don't annoy me with stupid chatter, at least So maybe it's not that bad...
You'll have plenty of time to get used to it. I have a feeling that once you are a "guest" of Mannimarco, your visit will be of long duration.I assumed they were just victims his cultists scooped up for him. Not sure how he might have turned them to stone. Alchemy? Crafted up a potion, they drank it, and turned to stone mid-stride or as they writhed in agony during the transformation? And when it comes to facing off against us, it's that curious plot armor we wear that lets us succeed.
I think the Ayleids had methods for something like that, so... But anyway, somehow I'm wondering now whether the 100 ft statue he created of Vanny later was truly made from decaying corpses or from... hundreds of stone statues of bald nude human men. That was probably more horrifying or maybe also a tad more embarrassing so the author of that story rather reported corpses and bones instead.
Lol...when decaying corpses and bones are the less upsetting option. Ugh, that statue.
Ah, your one weakness! Just don't look directly at him when you talk to him; then you won't see him crying, and you won't feel compelled to help.Vanny told us to protect the staff and threw it in our general direction, but I don't think he had anyone in particular in mind. Or maybe he knew Gabrielle was the only one capable of deciphering its vague messages. Who is even leading the book club now? Walks? She has the staff. Maybe that's the staff's real power: whoever holds it leads the guild.
Then we should probably be glad that it hasn't fallen into the hands of the Worm Cult. Yet.
Maybe the staff is like the one ring, and has a certain sentience and will of its own, and will do anything to get back to its master, including disposing of whoever currently has it. I don't think the average worm cultist would stand a chance.
Gossip...I could spread the gossip. I want the details of the experiment! Or is this your way of telling me you don't share such information? Or that you don't bother with notes at all?0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭While I do believe he does want the adulation that a princess often receives, I'm still not sure how much of the cultists' recent work was their own efforts to ingratiate themselves with Molag Bal, and how much of it was down to Mannimarco's supposed secret plan in case of disaster. What if he considers the Writhing Wall a shocking waste of souls? Although, I don't really know what he was doing with all those souls he took from everyone in the base game. He seemed to just be stockpiling them. At one point he had Tharn inspecting them as a form of torturous busy work, but I don't know that he was using them for much else.
Maybe he just has to do that, because that's what evil necromancers do!
And that's actually a good point to take this discussion back to a more serious level - and back to writing, most of all: I somehow dislike how generally, in media, there often seems to be a rather narrow idea of how "good" and "bad" characters are supposed to be - how they have to be portrayed, what they should be interested in, what they are doing, which character traits they're supposed to have, etc. And that goes beyond tropes. And yes, I'm fully aware that this is no new thing. Still, I wish narrations would be more open when it comes to that. And evil characters' actions should make sense within the narration and don't just serve the purpose of signaling "This is an evil wizard!", whether they actually make sense or not. I'd like to see characters being treated as individual people foremost when writing them, not already created having "the good character" or "the baddie" in mind. And I'd like to see more variety there, too. Less keeping to formulas, less adherence to expectations (I see how clear characterizations make sense in children's stories or fairytales - there doesn't have to be a big philosophical background about why the evil witch wants to eat Hänsel and Gretel - but I think that an adult fantasy narration like TES, with its huge scope spanning a whole cosmos and several eras of possible cultural development can be more complex). And I would like to see new aspects come up, and yes, I'd prefer them to be possibly thought-evoking and maybe even challenging some prejudiced beliefs. Even in mass media, I think this is possible.
Same goes for topics: Right now, there seem to be ideas about which things may be or even have to be adressed and/or challenged, and things that are not allowed to be challenged. We even seem to have some kind of "okay kind of evil" sentiment nowadays, with assassins or nowadays even serial killers being "cool" somehow, while there's also a very narrow idea about what's okay in that regard and what not. I mean, it's nothing new either, pirates are often positive or fascinating figures in literature, while real life pirates were not exactly the nicest people to be around, generally speaking. And there are also other different groups who have been highly romanticized in media despite their real life counterparts having been less nice or heroic. And honestly, I don't even mind that in some regards; I also enjoyed reading Treasure Island as a kid (I think that was basically the novel that started the romantisation of piratry in 1883). But in the end, these are basically just new tropes or moral rules (about what one "can" write about positively and what not), no actual freedom from limitation in exploring all kinds of topics.
Or maybe I'm truly expecting too much, I don't know? Maybe I just have a different thing in mind for this game than what it is supposed to be (or become)? Makes me think of that live-action ad video a few weeks ago, that one with the average modern people being teleported to Tamriel. Not sure if I misinterpret it, but to me it seemed to have the notion of "Forget your stressful/boring/depressing real life and do powerful/extraordinary/heroic things in Tamriel!" - and honestly, for me, this is not the motivation for playing ESO. Well, I want to do interesting things in ESO, of course, but I don't want to be heroic or powerful, and most of all it's not escapism (in the original sense of the word) for me. I'm not unhappy about my real life, I don't seek refuge in fiction. I do, see and read interesting things in real life, and I just want to extend that to another fictional world - that's why I enjoy TES, and that's what I want to see from a TES game. So my focus is exploring a hopefully complex, interesting and consistant fictional world, learning about its cultures and traditions, the same way I also enjoy learning about the real world and its different facets (although my usual day in the real world is less dangerous and murderous, of course, and, well, maybe not as riddled with encounters with dragons and cultists summoning beings destroying the whole universe or so).
And with it might come different expectations, contrary expectations even? Because with my interest in seeing a meaningful and "realistic" fictional world, I don't want safety. Funny or heartwarming quests are fine, they're naturally part of a world - but dark, unsettling or even outright horrible aspects are also naturally part of a believable world, so I want to see those, too (even more so if they've already been established as a part of TES lore earlier). Not only see them, I might want to explore such a topic on a deeper level - it's only fiction, it's not causing actual harm, after all, so it's basically a harmless way to contemplate some topics.
I think "safety" is generally a strange thing. We already discussed it elsewhere (shortly - I want to continue it here, because I feel it fits this thread more): "Safety" has always been a topic with media, mostly when it comes to restricting the use of some media types or topics for some age groups. Let's take violence as an example: Age restrictions disallow kids to have access to gory, brutal media. And I can understand this. Kids don't have the maturity yet to truly understand differences between fiction and the real world. Also, they imitate things they see (think of martial arts movies, for example; kids will often roleplay what they've seen with their friends afterwards and mimic the motions of the fighters they saw in the movie, etc - I did that in that age, all my friends did it, there was a bit of a martial arts craze in the late 1980's and early til mid 1990's). Young humans, as well as all young animals actually, learn and try to make sense of the world by imitating what they see, by trying out, experiencing, and understanding in the process. So yes, for media violence it's important to consider that it should be avoided that kids see it and get influenced in their behaviour by that - until a person has reached the age (or mental maturity) to process the topic responsibly.
But what I see nowadays are demands to extend this to anyone. Labeling some topics "unsafe" and then deciding they should not be depicted or discussed. And that's a thing I disagree with. I get that some people might find some topics difficult, but why does that justify limitations for everyone else? An adult person should be able and granted the agency to make their own decision whether they want to engage with some topic or not. Give them "warnings" or notes so they can make their choice, that's okay of course, but what bothers me is that I sometimes get the feeling that some people think it might be their right to decide over my head whats "good" for me and what I should be able to think about or engage with in a narration. This feels restrictive and, honestly, also a little respectless, considering I'm an adult who has the mental capacities to decide these things for himself. And I'm not blaming authors or studios here for avoiding topics then, because they are probably just trying to minimize the risk of a "scandal", I rather see the problem in people who make "scandals" out of media that depicts topics they dislike - or depicts them in a way they dislike, even if it's just part of a fictional foreign world and not meant as an endorsement of the depicted acts in any way.Charming is not the word I would have chosen. I think you need someone like Cadwell to truly appreciate your design aims.
I honestly think about doing something like that in housing now. Some cozy mix between a Tamrielic style and daedric styles - although I think that unfortunately, we don't have much of latter in terms of furnishings? A few deadlands things, but I don't like those that much actually, and it's a rather limited selection.You'll have plenty of time to get used to it. I have a feeling that once you are a "guest" of Mannimarco, your visit will be of long duration.
That's awesome; can't have enough time for discussing poetry!Lol...when decaying corpses and bones are the less upsetting option. Ugh, that statue.
Honestly, I had been wondering now what those statues of loin-clothed bald individuals reminded me of. It was not Rodin's Porte de l'Enfer (or Gate of Hell), it wasn't the huge monument near the entrance of Père Lachaise cemetery in Paris either,... Maybe I'll remember at some point.Ah, your one weakness! Just don't look directly at him when you talk to him; then you won't see him crying, and you won't feel compelled to help.
But what if he tricks me to look?Maybe the staff is like the one ring, and has a certain sentience and will of its own, and will do anything to get back to its master, including disposing of whoever currently has it.
I'm glad I did not catch it then.Gossip...I could spread the gossip. I want the details of the experiment! Or is this your way of telling me you don't share such information?
That truly depends on the outcome.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭While I do believe he does want the adulation that a princess often receives, I'm still not sure how much of the cultists' recent work was their own efforts to ingratiate themselves with Molag Bal, and how much of it was down to Mannimarco's supposed secret plan in case of disaster. What if he considers the Writhing Wall a shocking waste of souls? Although, I don't really know what he was doing with all those souls he took from everyone in the base game. He seemed to just be stockpiling them. At one point he had Tharn inspecting them as a form of torturous busy work, but I don't know that he was using them for much else.
Maybe he just has to do that, because that's what evil necromancers do!
And that's actually a good point to take this discussion back to a more serious level - and back to writing, most of all: I somehow dislike how generally, in media, there often seems to be a rather narrow idea of how "good" and "bad" characters are supposed to be - how they have to be portrayed, what they should be interested in, what they are doing, which character traits they're supposed to have, etc. And that goes beyond tropes. And yes, I'm fully aware that this is no new thing. Still, I wish narrations would be more open when it comes to that. And evil characters' actions should make sense within the narration and don't just serve the purpose of signaling "This is an evil wizard!", whether they actually make sense or not. I'd like to see characters being treated as individual people foremost when writing them, not already created having "the good character" or "the baddie" in mind. And I'd like to see more variety there, too. Less keeping to formulas, less adherence to expectations (I see how clear characterizations make sense in children's stories or fairytales - there doesn't have to be a big philosophical background about why the evil witch wants to eat Hänsel and Gretel - but I think that an adult fantasy narration like TES, with its huge scope spanning a whole cosmos and several eras of possible cultural development can be more complex). And I would like to see new aspects come up, and yes, I'd prefer them to be possibly thought-evoking and maybe even challenging some prejudiced beliefs. Even in mass media, I think this is possible.
It is possible. One example that comes to mind right away is the Marvel Movies. Over however many movies and years, they had an ongoing story arc that culminated in the final two movies. The main villain of that long story arc was Thanos, and he wasn't cast in the mold of evil for evil's sake. He had deeper characterization and motivation for why he was doing what he did, and his actions could actually spark debate about their morality. Of course he was defeated in the end--superhero movies and all that. But, to the point, there's no doubt those movies were the least fringe you could get in entertainment, were wildly popular, and were not simplistic in terms of morality. They even had that kind of nuance with the self-contained stories in the individual movies, too.
Seems like a lot of the time in the game they choose the more overtly "evil" villains for us to go up against, such as Molag Bal or Mehrunes Dagon. If I understand lore correctly, daedric princes are incapable of being anything other than what they are, so Dagon is always going to want to destroy/wage war. That adds a constraint in how any encounter with them can go, and I'd just as soon not have them popping up all over the place, but they are a big part of the world, so.... As for the non-daedric villains we get, I think they have tried to write more complex ones, or give them more complex motivations. The Ascendant Lord started out pretty good and I could even relate to his reasoning, but then he took a turn into world domination by the end that was deeply unsatisfying. I guess if the story goes that we always have to win, the villain is going to become monstrous because that's the expectation? I don't know. I wouldn't mind a story ending where we don't outright win. Either it's a draw, or the world is even slightly worse off than it was before we started in on our heroics. Would that go over well with the majority of the player base? I have no idea.Or maybe I'm truly expecting too much, I don't know? Maybe I just have a different thing in mind for this game than what it is supposed to be (or become)? Makes me think of that live-action ad video a few weeks ago, that one with the average modern people being teleported to Tamriel. Not sure if I misinterpret it, but to me it seemed to have the notion of "Forget your stressful/boring/depressing real life and do powerful/extraordinary/heroic things in Tamriel!" - and honestly, for me, this is not the motivation for playing ESO. Well, I want to do interesting things in ESO, of course, but I don't want to be heroic or powerful, and most of all it's not escapism (in the original sense of the word) for me. I'm not unhappy about my real life, I don't seek refuge in fiction. I do, see and read interesting things in real life, and I just want to extend that to another fictional world - that's why I enjoy TES, and that's what I want to see from a TES game. So my focus is exploring a hopefully complex, interesting and consistant fictional world, learning about its cultures and traditions, the same way I also enjoy learning about the real world and its different facets (although my usual day in the real world is less dangerous and murderous, of course, and, well, maybe not as riddled with encounters with dragons and cultists summoning beings destroying the whole universe or so).
I'd have to watch the ad again, but my impression of it was: doesn't matter what you do for your real life--everyone can have fun in Tamriel. Basically a repetition of the "you belong here" marketing. Were the people all bored and stressed? It could have been "escape from drudgery" marketing as well. My motivation for playing ESO varies. Usually I'm just looking for some fun in a world I like, but sometimes it is a bit of an escape for me. I'm not going to go into it here, but it has provided me with a place to be when certain aspects of my life were overwhelming.
I don't think you're expecting too much, because the game has been what you wanted from it, and there's really no reason it can't be that again, or still. Obviously we'll see if that happens, but if it doesn't I don't think the problem will have been your expectations.I think "safety" is generally a strange thing. We already discussed it elsewhere (shortly - I want to continue it here, because I feel it fits this thread more): "Safety" has always been a topic with media, mostly when it comes to restricting the use of some media types or topics for some age groups. Let's take violence as an example: Age restrictions disallow kids to have access to gory, brutal media. And I can understand this. Kids don't have the maturity yet to truly understand differences between fiction and the real world. Also, they imitate things they see (think of martial arts movies, for example; kids will often roleplay what they've seen with their friends afterwards and mimic the motions of the fighters they saw in the movie, etc - I did that in that age, all my friends did it, there was a bit of a martial arts craze in the late 1980's and early til mid 1990's). Young humans, as well as all young animals actually, learn and try to make sense of the world by imitating what they see, by trying out, experiencing, and understanding in the process. So yes, for media violence it's important to consider that it should be avoided that kids see it and get influenced in their behaviour by that - until a person has reached the age (or mental maturity) to process the topic responsibly.
There might be cultural differences at work here, but from what I see, there's less concern about exposing kids to violence than there is about exposing them to anything to do with sexuality/gender roles and similar topics. Oh, and what is referred to as "language," meaning of course the curse words.But what I see nowadays are demands to extend this to anyone. Labeling some topics "unsafe" and then deciding they should not be depicted or discussed. And that's a thing I disagree with. I get that some people might find some topics difficult, but why does that justify limitations for everyone else? An adult person should be able and granted the agency to make their own decision whether they want to engage with some topic or not. Give them "warnings" or notes so they can make their choice, that's okay of course, but what bothers me is that I sometimes get the feeling that some people think it might be their right to decide over my head whats "good" for me and what I should be able to think about or engage with in a narration. This feels restrictive and, honestly, also a little respectless, considering I'm an adult who has the mental capacities to decide these things for himself. And I'm not blaming authors or studios here for avoiding topics then, because they are probably just trying to minimize the risk of a "scandal", I rather see the problem in people who make "scandals" out of media that depicts topics they dislike - or depicts them in a way they dislike, even if it's just part of a fictional foreign world and not meant as an endorsement of the depicted acts in any way.
I don't have much to add at this point other than that I agree. Instead of just bypassing media or content they don't prefer, groups set out on a crusade to restrict it from everyone. There's been a big deal over here about public libraries having the audacity to have books on the shelves that deal with certain topics (usually related to LGBTQ+ subject matter) and they're cloaking it in the "protect the children" theme, but the books aren't in the children's section at all: they just happen to exist in the library. So instead of just letting parents and caregivers monitor what their own children have access to, groups are intent on restricting everyone's access. It's infuriating.Charming is not the word I would have chosen. I think you need someone like Cadwell to truly appreciate your design aims.
I honestly think about doing something like that in housing now. Some cozy mix between a Tamrielic style and daedric styles - although I think that unfortunately, we don't have much of latter in terms of furnishings? A few deadlands things, but I don't like those that much actually, and it's a rather limited selection.
I think there might be a fair amount of craftable furnishings labeled "daedric". They're probably hard to find, though, because we don't have a searchable crafting table for furniture. Then there are some antiquities you can find in Coldharbour, like the daedric pillar of torment, or the void crystal anomaly. And the luxury furnishing vendor likely has a few daedric weeks, but where they are in the rotation I don't know.
I'm sure you're much too canny to be tricked like that.
Lol...well, maybe I should attend the experiment. Do you allow observers?0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seems like a lot of the time in the game they choose the more overtly "evil" villains for us to go up against, such as Molag Bal or Mehrunes Dagon. If I understand lore correctly, daedric princes are incapable of being anything other than what they are, so Dagon is always going to want to destroy/wage war. That adds a constraint in how any encounter with them can go, and I'd just as soon not have them popping up all over the place, but they are a big part of the world, so....
They all have positive as well as negative aspects and actually it is mentioned in lore at times that Tamriel's cultures are aware of this and have different interpretations; it's just that the stories we actually see then always focus on world-ending catastrophe, and if we see someone having a more neutral or even positive view, then it's usually some weird cultist. The only exception we saw for a long time was Dunmer society with their concept of the "Good Daedra" (which still pertains even if they switched to Tribunal worship by now), and now we have the Solstice Altmer, but that's also a little thwarted by giving them a morally questionable background of having been necromancers once, so there's the notion of "they might still be hiding something now" (same with Ayleid daedra worship - we know of it, but at the same time, Ayleids are usually depicted as morally twisted and cruel).As for the non-daedric villains we get, I think they have tried to write more complex ones, or give them more complex motivations. The Ascendant Lord started out pretty good and I could even relate to his reasoning, but then he took a turn into world domination by the end that was deeply unsatisfying.
Indeed it was. It looked promising at the beginning!I guess if the story goes that we always have to win, the villain is going to become monstrous because that's the expectation? I don't know.
It would feel more tragic if we had to defeat the villain "for the greater good" even if their goals might have been somehow comprehensible to us. Of course that needs more nuance and is more complicated to write than just having a clear black/white or hero/baddie scheme.I wouldn't mind a story ending where we don't outright win. Either it's a draw, or the world is even slightly worse off than it was before we started in on our heroics. Would that go over well with the majority of the player base? I have no idea.
I wouldn't mind that.I'd have to watch the ad again, but my impression of it was: doesn't matter what you do for your real life--everyone can have fun in Tamriel.
At least if you're an office worker, a barista, a soccer player, or some guy sitting on a train.Were the people all bored and stressed? It could have been "escape from drudgery" marketing as well.
Okay, I rewatched it; it seems to be about imagining oneself in a more exciting situation - the guy on the train suddenly sits on a gallopping horse, the barista makes potions instead of coffee, and the office lady becomes a thief/rogue or so (which leads to questions what company she's supposed to be working for). The soccer player seems to be dreaming of hacking the players of the other team with a huge axe or so (shouldn't he be happy he can earn his living by doing a sport he probably enjoys?).I don't think you're expecting too much, because the game has been what you wanted from it, and there's really no reason it can't be that again, or still. Obviously we'll see if that happens, but if it doesn't I don't think the problem will have been your expectations.
I'm honestly curious what changes we might see in the near future, if we see any. I don't want to focus too much on that topic in this thread here, but you've also probably become aware of the other MMO project of ZOS having been canceled. I really hope that at least some of the staff (if not everyone) that had been relocated to that project might make their return to ESO. I read that the second loremaster who was in charge of the lore and writing department between Morrowind and Summerset was part of that new team. If he returns to the ESO writing team and gets a free hand in his writing, we might see more of that old style again, and that would be something I'd very much appreciate.There might be cultural differences at work here, but from what I see, there's less concern about exposing kids to violence than there is about exposing them to anything to do with sexuality/gender roles and similar topics. Oh, and what is referred to as "language," meaning of course the curse words.
That indeed seems to be a cultural difference. Swearing is seen as inappropriate here, but not as too horrible, so there's no idea anyone would need protection from it (it's more a question of manners then being seen as harmful). As for nudity, I live in the country that invented naturism (with the philosophical background that the exposure of the body to sun, water and wind is natural and healthy, so regular contact with the elements in a direct way, without clothing, is considered beneficial), so that's really nothing people here worry about much. The main aspect people are concerned about is violence.
I can still remember how astounded I was when I saw content warning labels for the first time, with warnings for "alcohol reference", "suggestive humour" and "profanity" - those are seen as just normal aspects of everyday life here (not necessarily as mannerly, but still), so people here would not understand why a media content warning is needed for things you might just see while walking around outside. We respect these cultural differences of course, the general stance is if you're a guest somewhere, you'd adapt to their norms; I'm just saying that many people here aren't aware at all that these topics might be taboo elsewhere, because here, they're not.I think there might be a fair amount of craftable furnishings labeled "daedric". They're probably hard to find, though, because we don't have a searchable crafting table for furniture. Then there are some antiquities you can find in Coldharbour, like the daedric pillar of torment, or the void crystal anomaly. And the luxury furnishing vendor likely has a few daedric weeks, but where they are in the rotation I don't know.
Ah, right, I forgot about some of the luxury furnishings. Generally, I think there aren't that much different ones, though. And not much that might qualify as normal furniture, probably.Lol...well, maybe I should attend the experiment. Do you allow observers?
I might need a few more assistants.
Edited by Syldras on 6 July 2025 02:27@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭Seems like a lot of the time in the game they choose the more overtly "evil" villains for us to go up against, such as Molag Bal or Mehrunes Dagon. If I understand lore correctly, daedric princes are incapable of being anything other than what they are, so Dagon is always going to want to destroy/wage war. That adds a constraint in how any encounter with them can go, and I'd just as soon not have them popping up all over the place, but they are a big part of the world, so....
They all have positive as well as negative aspects and actually it is mentioned in lore at times that Tamriel's cultures are aware of this and have different interpretations; it's just that the stories we actually see then always focus on world-ending catastrophe, and if we see someone having a more neutral or even positive view, then it's usually some weird cultist. The only exception we saw for a long time was Dunmer society with their concept of the "Good Daedra" (which still pertains even if they switched to Tribunal worship by now), and now we have the Solstice Altmer, but that's also a little thwarted by giving them a morally questionable background of having been necromancers once, so there's the notion of "they might still be hiding something now" (same with Ayleid daedra worship - we know of it, but at the same time, Ayleids are usually depicted as morally twisted and cruel).
So what would a positive aspect of Molag Bal be? Seems like one of the corners of the House of Troubles wouldn't have much that could be spun as positive. But I am genuinely curious how anything related to him could be seen as positive according the peoples of Tamriel.Were the people all bored and stressed? It could have been "escape from drudgery" marketing as well.
Okay, I rewatched it; it seems to be about imagining oneself in a more exciting situation - the guy on the train suddenly sits on a gallopping horse, the barista makes potions instead of coffee, and the office lady becomes a thief/rogue or so (which leads to questions what company she's supposed to be working for). The soccer player seems to be dreaming of hacking the players of the other team with a huge axe or so (shouldn't he be happy he can earn his living by doing a sport he probably enjoys?).
I guess making potions might be more exciting than making coffee. Couldn't say from experience, since I don't drink coffee. The soccer player does seem to be the odd one out as far as an exciting career goes. I would think being a professional soccer player is plenty exciting, though it's true they don't allow axes in the game play.I don't think you're expecting too much, because the game has been what you wanted from it, and there's really no reason it can't be that again, or still. Obviously we'll see if that happens, but if it doesn't I don't think the problem will have been your expectations.
I'm honestly curious what changes we might see in the near future, if we see any. I don't want to focus too much on that topic in this thread here, but you've also probably become aware of the other MMO project of ZOS having been canceled. I really hope that at least some of the staff (if not everyone) that had been relocated to that project might make their return to ESO. I read that the second loremaster who was in charge of the lore and writing department between Morrowind and Summerset was part of that new team. If he returns to the ESO writing team and gets a free hand in his writing, we might see more of that old style again, and that would be something I'd very much appreciate.
I was aware of it, and the layoffs that also occurred. I have no idea if the people who were working on the canceled project could or would return to ESO or what that would mean for the game if they did. I'm not familiar with the person you mentioned, but that time in ESO certainly did have some good writing and stories. Here's hoping for the best!I think there might be a fair amount of craftable furnishings labeled "daedric". They're probably hard to find, though, because we don't have a searchable crafting table for furniture. Then there are some antiquities you can find in Coldharbour, like the daedric pillar of torment, or the void crystal anomaly. And the luxury furnishing vendor likely has a few daedric weeks, but where they are in the rotation I don't know.
Ah, right, I forgot about some of the luxury furnishings. Generally, I think there aren't that much different ones, though. And not much that might qualify as normal furniture, probably.
Yeah, the daedric stuff tends to be more ritual focused, I think. Or torment adjacent. But now I'm curious if there are any "normal" daedric furnishings. I'll have to trawl through my patterns and find out.
Ah, I'll decline that particular role. I don't want to go to the moon.
0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So what would a positive aspect of Molag Bal be? Seems like one of the corners of the House of Troubles wouldn't have much that could be spun as positive. But I am genuinely curious how anything related to him could be seen as positive according the peoples of Tamriel.
I mean, the House of Troubles is also known as the Testing Gods, which isn't an entirely negative way of viewing them, assigning to them the spiritual purpose to keep the Dunmer/Chimer people strong and alert through the various problems they cause.
Other than that the people who venerate him seem to focus on his attributes, interpreting them in a positive way, so his brutality might be seen as a sign of strength and power (I think there's something like that in the beliefs of the Reachmen), his dominance as a symbol for leadership, possibly his scheming as a symbol of cunning (like the Dunmer interpret Mephala positively in that regard). Then I think it's entirely possible that certain professions do the same thing, like assassins taking him as a positive example because murder lies in his domain, and, obviously, slave hunters or traders might do the same with his domination/slavery aspect.
And then we have the Witches of Molag Bal who worship him as the Schemer Princess, which is obviously what Mannimarco is aspiring to as his successor:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Invocation_of_AzuraI guess making potions might be more exciting than making coffee. Couldn't say from experience, since I don't drink coffee.
I think it probably depends very much on the potions, and the coffee.I was aware of it, and the layoffs that also occurred. I have no idea if the people who were working on the canceled project could or would return to ESO or what that would mean for the game if they did. I'm not familiar with the person you mentioned, but that time in ESO certainly did have some good writing and stories. Here's hoping for the best!
He wrote all the dialogues for Sotha Sil, so... If we might get back on that level, that might lead to another golden era for ESO, at least from my point of view. I mean, there are also other aspects than lore and stories that are important for a game, of course, but it would be a step into the right direction, and at least the story-focussed part of the player base (or potential player base) would certainly become more interested in this game again if that happened (at least I know quite some people who were mostly story- and lore-focussed and left within the past few years because they didn't enjoy the writing anymore, finding it too simple and clichéd and lacking the seriousness of earlier stories, but who would certainly give it another try if there's a return to how it was between, let's say, base game and Summerset). And maybe the same could happen to other aspects of the game, given that some devs who were relocated around 2018 might return now.Yeah, the daedric stuff tends to be more ritual focused, I think. Or torment adjacent. But now I'm curious if there are any "normal" daedric furnishings. I'll have to trawl through my patterns and find out.
Deadlands style has wardrobes, tables and chairs, I think also a few bookshelves, but I wanted to go for Coldharbour style. And the only things I can think of there are some lanterns, a bookshelf, but other than that mostly ritual stuff and urns, I think. Of course a sarcophagus might serve as a table, and there's also a throne, but it is a little limited.Ah, I'll decline that particular role. I don't want to go to the moon.
Maybe you know a few Khajiit who would be interested?@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭So what would a positive aspect of Molag Bal be? Seems like one of the corners of the House of Troubles wouldn't have much that could be spun as positive. But I am genuinely curious how anything related to him could be seen as positive according the peoples of Tamriel.
I mean, the House of Troubles is also known as the Testing Gods, which isn't an entirely negative way of viewing them, assigning to them the spiritual purpose to keep the Dunmer/Chimer people strong and alert through the various problems they cause.
Other than that the people who venerate him seem to focus on his attributes, interpreting them in a positive way, so his brutality might be seen as a sign of strength and power (I think there's something like that in the beliefs of the Reachmen), his dominance as a symbol for leadership, possibly his scheming as a symbol of cunning (like the Dunmer interpret Mephala positively in that regard). Then I think it's entirely possible that certain professions do the same thing, like assassins taking him as a positive example because murder lies in his domain, and, obviously, slave hunters or traders might do the same with his domination/slavery aspect.
And then we have the Witches of Molag Bal who worship him as the Schemer Princess, which is obviously what Mannimarco is aspiring to as his successor:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Invocation_of_Azura
I guess my view of positive is a little less flexible than theirs. Or, more precisely, the things they see as positive I do not. But that does all make sense, and I guess they don't have to necessarily be worshippers of Molag Bal to find some of his traits positive.
That lore book touches on something I've thought about before: that Azura seems to be unique among the daedric princes in that she actually cares about her worshippers. I wonder how well she would work as a main character in a story, akin to how we interacted with Mora but he wasn't the one we had to "beat". I also like the fluidity of that book, referring to all the princes the author worshipped over time as she, which fits with the idea that the daedra aren't necessarily one or the other, a concept that's been part of their lore for a long time but rarely gets referenced in writings about them.I was aware of it, and the layoffs that also occurred. I have no idea if the people who were working on the canceled project could or would return to ESO or what that would mean for the game if they did. I'm not familiar with the person you mentioned, but that time in ESO certainly did have some good writing and stories. Here's hoping for the best!
He wrote all the dialogues for Sotha Sil, so... If we might get back on that level, that might lead to another golden era for ESO, at least from my point of view. I mean, there are also other aspects than lore and stories that are important for a game, of course, but it would be a step into the right direction, and at least the story-focussed part of the player base (or potential player base) would certainly become more interested in this game again if that happened (at least I know quite some people who were mostly story- and lore-focussed and left within the past few years because they didn't enjoy the writing anymore, finding it too simple and clichéd and lacking the seriousness of earlier stories, but who would certainly give it another try if there's a return to how it was between, let's say, base game and Summerset). And maybe the same could happen to other aspects of the game, given that some devs who were relocated around 2018 might return now.
I would really love it if we could get back to that style of story and writing. Of course, even if some of those people did return, it would take awhile for any of their efforts to show up in the game. I don't know how far in advance ZOS works on content, but I think the next season is already well underway.Yeah, the daedric stuff tends to be more ritual focused, I think. Or torment adjacent. But now I'm curious if there are any "normal" daedric furnishings. I'll have to trawl through my patterns and find out.
Deadlands style has wardrobes, tables and chairs, I think also a few bookshelves, but I wanted to go for Coldharbour style. And the only things I can think of there are some lanterns, a bookshelf, but other than that mostly ritual stuff and urns, I think. Of course a sarcophagus might serve as a table, and there's also a throne, but it is a little limited.
Do the achievement furnishing vendors sell anything that would work? I always forget they exist.
I could ask around. They might not be willing to choose between the moons, though, for fear of giving offense.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That lore book touches on something I've thought about before: that Azura seems to be unique among the daedric princes in that she actually cares about her worshippers. I wonder how well she would work as a main character in a story, akin to how we interacted with Mora but he wasn't the one we had to "beat".
I think she would work well in that role. But of course something Dunmer-focused would make most sense for that kind of story (we know Azura still watches over Morrowind and in a way cares for its people, despite not being worshipped anymore by the majority of Dunmer right now), and I don't think that the players want to return to Morrowind that early.
As for the "problem" of Tribunal worship being the prevalent thing in Morrowind at this given time - first of all, the story could focus on Ashlanders or Temple dissidents, but also: There's not such a hard split between daedra worship and Tribunal worship as many people seem to think. The Tribunal gods are seen as the successors of the Good Daedra, but the new gods are still seen as basically being the image of the earlier gods. The connection is never denied, especially Vivec gets compared (in a positive way) to Mephala all the time.
In general, I wouldn't want the Daedric Princes to be humanized too much, though. I don't want to see them quarreling like mere mortals. I know that this concept of deities also existed in some cultures in the real world (think about all the things the deities of Ancient Greece are supposed to have done according to mythology), but the Daedric Princes are not like that according to all the lore we got so far, so that would be not really convincing if it suddenly changed to that now. Actually I already found the depictions in the Necrom story a bit too mundane. There should be something otherworldly to them, something that shows they are not that similar to living mortal beings at all.I also like the fluidity of that book, referring to all the princes the author worshipped over time as she, which fits with the idea that the daedra aren't necessarily one or the other, a concept that's been part of their lore for a long time but rarely gets referenced in writings about them.
Strictly seen, they have no form at all. They're energy that can manifest as anything they wish, be it a creaking door, a golden indrik, a black poodle or a dish of gryphon sausages. Some seem to have a preference about how they wish to manifest, like Azura who usually manifest as female, or Hermaeus Mora who prefers... something less human. Others seem to be more fluid, like Boethia who shows up in a male humanoid form as often as in a female one. Or maybe just chooses the one that seems more practical in that moment.I would really love it if we could get back to that style of story and writing. Of course, even if some of those people did return, it would take awhile for any of their efforts to show up in the game. I don't know how far in advance ZOS works on content, but I think the next season is already well underway.
It's really a good question. But I hope there will be more story content in the future, so if we don't see such a change at the end of this year or in the next year, maybe the year after that. Although it's generally an interesting question now of course whether there will be a general change in the planned release schedule now. Maybe the "season" concept doesn't get received as well as expected? Or maybe, if they might have more staff available for ESO again now, another concept might feel more reasonable again?Do the achievement furnishing vendors sell anything that would work? I always forget they exist.
Yes, I always forget about those too... I'd have to go check tomorrow or so. Or maybe wait a little and get more gold first. I spent a lot on houses a few days ago, now that they're on discount during the eventI could ask around. They might not be willing to choose between the moons, though, for fear of giving offense.
Well, I could choose for them, then it's a surprise. People like surprises, don't they?@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭That lore book touches on something I've thought about before: that Azura seems to be unique among the daedric princes in that she actually cares about her worshippers. I wonder how well she would work as a main character in a story, akin to how we interacted with Mora but he wasn't the one we had to "beat".
I think she would work well in that role. But of course something Dunmer-focused would make most sense for that kind of story (we know Azura still watches over Morrowind and in a way cares for its people, despite not being worshipped anymore by the majority of Dunmer right now), and I don't think that the players want to return to Morrowind that early.
As for the "problem" of Tribunal worship being the prevalent thing in Morrowind at this given time - first of all, the story could focus on Ashlanders or Temple dissidents, but also: There's not such a hard split between daedra worship and Tribunal worship as many people seem to think. The Tribunal gods are seen as the successors of the Good Daedra, but the new gods are still seen as basically being the image of the earlier gods. The connection is never denied, especially Vivec gets compared (in a positive way) to Mephala all the time.
In general, I wouldn't want the Daedric Princes to be humanized too much, though. I don't want to see them quarreling like mere mortals. I know that this concept of deities also existed in some cultures in the real world (think about all the things the deities of Ancient Greece are supposed to have done according to mythology), but the Daedric Princes are not like that according to all the lore we got so far, so that would be not really convincing if it suddenly changed to that now. Actually I already found the depictions in the Necrom story a bit too mundane. There should be something otherworldly to them, something that shows they are not that similar to living mortal beings at all.
We did get a little bit of Azura (or Azurah, as the Khajiit call her) in Zerith-Var's story. Not so much an appearance as just more of how she interacts with her worshippers. And of course she's around in a few quests, both in base game and the Morrowind chapter. But she was never made a big deal out of like some of the others. Anyway, I agree if she did play a starring role, it would work best with a Dunmer-centric focus. I wouldn't mind more Morrowind and Dunmer content, but that's just me. Everyone has their own preferred races and regions they want to see featured.
In the Daedric War story arc, we got to see an uneasy collaboration between three of the princes, and I got the impression that was an unusual thing; that the princes rarely "work together" (and, actually, at least two of the three were planning a betrayal of the others in that case). Meridia and Molag Bal seem to be the most outwardly antagonistic towards one another. But generally it seems that they pretty much prefer the solo life, reigning over their domains, and working their plans alone. I never got the idea that any of them liked any of the others. Azura once called Molag Bal her "vulgar peer" (at least I think she was the one who said that). It wasn't until Necrom and that story where we saw Mora holding meetings and making pronouncements that I was aware they ever all got together in a council-like manner (well, except for the famous Coldharbour Compact, but that was Sil bringing them to the meeting, not something they devised). So, yeah, having them suddenly interacting a lot (similar to the Greek pantheon) would be a bit odd.I also like the fluidity of that book, referring to all the princes the author worshipped over time as she, which fits with the idea that the daedra aren't necessarily one or the other, a concept that's been part of their lore for a long time but rarely gets referenced in writings about them.
Strictly seen, they have no form at all. They're energy that can manifest as anything they wish, be it a creaking door, a golden indrik, a black poodle or a dish of gryphon sausages. Some seem to have a preference about how they wish to manifest, like Azura who usually manifest as female, or Hermaeus Mora who prefers... something less human. Others seem to be more fluid, like Boethia who shows up in a male humanoid form as often as in a female one. Or maybe just chooses the one that seems more practical in that moment.
I knew they weren't restricted to their forms, but they do tend to be rather consistent with them when they interact with mortals. It certainly would create a lot of tension if they had the habit of showing up in any form--you'd never know if a thing was just a thing, or actually a daedric prince.I would really love it if we could get back to that style of story and writing. Of course, even if some of those people did return, it would take awhile for any of their efforts to show up in the game. I don't know how far in advance ZOS works on content, but I think the next season is already well underway.
It's really a good question. But I hope there will be more story content in the future, so if we don't see such a change at the end of this year or in the next year, maybe the year after that. Although it's generally an interesting question now of course whether there will be a general change in the planned release schedule now. Maybe the "season" concept doesn't get received as well as expected? Or maybe, if they might have more staff available for ESO again now, another concept might feel more reasonable again?
I do really wonder how the "season" format will play out and be received. This first one doesn't feel that much different from a chapter, so it's hard to say. But if this does allow them to be more flexible, as they said, that could be a good thing. I wouldn't mind smaller, more contained stories if they were done well (and appropriately priced). I really didn't like having the dungeons and story bundled in this season. I never purchase dungeons, because they are always part of ESO+. But that's neither here nor there.Do the achievement furnishing vendors sell anything that would work? I always forget they exist.
Yes, I always forget about those too... I'd have to go check tomorrow or so. Or maybe wait a little and get more gold first. I spent a lot on houses a few days ago, now that they're on discount during the event
I had to stop buying houses because I've already got several I haven't finished decorating. And the final morphing collectible for this year is going to be a large house, so that'll be another big one to fill up. Sometimes those big places are too big. I have no idea what to do with Sword-singer's Redoubt. It was my furniture warehouse before the vault existed.
I have a strong suspicion that there are very few people who would enjoy one of your surprises.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I wouldn't mind more Morrowind and Dunmer content, but that's just me. Everyone has their own preferred races and regions they want to see featured.
If we look at the empty spots that remain on the map now, there's definitely still a lot of Morrowind they could do And Skyrim and Hammerfell; as well as a bit of Cyrodiil and Black Marsh, I think.In the Daedric War story arc, we got to see an uneasy collaboration between three of the princes, and I got the impression that was an unusual thing; that the princes rarely "work together" (and, actually, at least two of the three were planning a betrayal of the others in that case). Meridia and Molag Bal seem to be the most outwardly antagonistic towards one another. But generally it seems that they pretty much prefer the solo life, reigning over their domains, and working their plans alone. I never got the idea that any of them liked any of the others. Azura once called Molag Bal her "vulgar peer" (at least I think she was the one who said that). It wasn't until Necrom and that story where we saw Mora holding meetings and making pronouncements that I was aware they ever all got together in a council-like manner (well, except for the famous Coldharbour Compact, but that was Sil bringing them to the meeting, not something they devised).
And that's the reason why I was rather sceptical about that part of the story, as it didn't really fit what we saw in lore before. Also, their conversation seemed mundane somehow? I don't think that's the best decision if you want to keep beings feel alien, mysterious, dangerous and eldritch.
Generally, that was one of my main "problems" with Necrom: The announcement promised us a Lovecraftian theme for the year, but there was nothing creepy or mysterious about the story at all! That's what Lovecraft is about, not just random tentacles (Now I remember my first speculations I had about Necrom, just after the very first announcement... I honestly had forgotten about those already; anyway, now I remember again that also back then, I had been a bit disappointed because my ideas were more more detailed than what we actually got then). Anyway, a realm can't feel eerie and mysterious if you traverse it like the local shopping mall, and a creature will not feel scary and unfathomable if it talks to you like the friendly neighbour next door.I knew they weren't restricted to their forms, but they do tend to be rather consistent with them when they interact with mortals. It certainly would create a lot of tension if they had the habit of showing up in any form--you'd never know if a thing was just a thing, or actually a daedric prince.
I'd actually find that fun somehow. And I can think of at least three dozens of absurd situations now.I do really wonder how the "season" format will play out and be received. This first one doesn't feel that much different from a chapter, so it's hard to say. But if this does allow them to be more flexible, as they said, that could be a good thing. I wouldn't mind smaller, more contained stories if they were done well (and appropriately priced). I really didn't like having the dungeons and story bundled in this season. I never purchase dungeons, because they are always part of ESO+. But that's neither here nor there.
I agree with that. But at the same time I also hope it won't end with selling storylines completely seperately at some point. I mean, okay, in a way they already did that with the crown store companions last year, although those of course have a bit more functionality beyond their storyline. But I'd find it sad somehow if you'd really have to buy all kinds of questlines seperately. And it would probably get much more expensive for the player in total then, too.I had to stop buying houses because I've already got several I haven't finished decorating. And the final morphing collectible for this year is going to be a large house, so that'll be another big one to fill up.
Oh, I don't mind having a few empty ones immediately available even if I haven't finished an older project yet. A few bigger houses are more like an ongoing project for me anyway, I add whatever fits over the years (I also do have a few houses, usually smaller ones, that are completely finished, though).Sometimes those big places are too big. I have no idea what to do with Sword-singer's Redoubt. It was my furniture warehouse before the vault existed.
Often the furnishing limit is much too low for the huge houses. Even worse with plots of land, since if you build your own buildings, these will already take up a few hundred slots until just the structure is finished, without any actual furniture having yet been placed at all.I have a strong suspicion that there are very few people who would enjoy one of your surprises.
The Bosmer usually likes them.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake1 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I wouldn't mind more Morrowind and Dunmer content, but that's just me. Everyone has their own preferred races and regions they want to see featured.
If we look at the empty spots that remain on the map now, there's definitely still a lot of Morrowind they could do And Skyrim and Hammerfell; as well as a bit of Cyrodiil and Black Marsh, I think.
I know a lot of people wanted Hammerfell this year. Well, a lot of forum people. I wonder if they do intend to eventually fill out the map, or if they'll have us go someplace outside of Tamriel that isn't just another realm of oblivion.In the Daedric War story arc, we got to see an uneasy collaboration between three of the princes, and I got the impression that was an unusual thing; that the princes rarely "work together" (and, actually, at least two of the three were planning a betrayal of the others in that case). Meridia and Molag Bal seem to be the most outwardly antagonistic towards one another. But generally it seems that they pretty much prefer the solo life, reigning over their domains, and working their plans alone. I never got the idea that any of them liked any of the others. Azura once called Molag Bal her "vulgar peer" (at least I think she was the one who said that). It wasn't until Necrom and that story where we saw Mora holding meetings and making pronouncements that I was aware they ever all got together in a council-like manner (well, except for the famous Coldharbour Compact, but that was Sil bringing them to the meeting, not something they devised).
And that's the reason why I was rather sceptical about that part of the story, as it didn't really fit what we saw in lore before. Also, their conversation seemed mundane somehow? I don't think that's the best decision if you want to keep beings feel alien, mysterious, dangerous and eldritch.
Generally, that was one of my main "problems" with Necrom: The announcement promised us a Lovecraftian theme for the year, but there was nothing creepy or mysterious about the story at all! That's what Lovecraft is about, not just random tentacles (Now I remember my first speculations I had about Necrom, just after the very first announcement... I honestly had forgotten about those already; anyway, now I remember again that also back then, I had been a bit disappointed because my ideas were more more detailed than what we actually got then). Anyway, a realm can't feel eerie and mysterious if you traverse it like the local shopping mall, and a creature will not feel scary and unfathomable if it talks to you like the friendly neighbour next door.
I was disappointed with the Necrom announcement because I don't like Mora, didn't want to go to Apocrypha, and I have no use for Lovecraft. But I love Morrowind and Dunmer and the chance to learn more about their lore drew me in and I figured I'd just grit my teeth and get through the Apocrypha and Mora stuff. I found Apocrypha unsettling enough visually; actually, I could only play in the green half in small chunks of time, because that color scheme actually made me nauseous. But physical unpleasantness aside, the place was eerie enough for me. Not as dangerous as it's always bigged up to be, and the insanity quotient wasn't as high as I thought it would be, but still fairly creepy.
Mora himself didn't seem as creepy as he did in encounters past; he actually came across a bit like an absent-minded librarian who couldn't manage to handle the ruffians who were messing up the shelved books. A librarian with a penchant for policy meetings.I knew they weren't restricted to their forms, but they do tend to be rather consistent with them when they interact with mortals. It certainly would create a lot of tension if they had the habit of showing up in any form--you'd never know if a thing was just a thing, or actually a daedric prince.
I'd actually find that fun somehow. And I can think of at least three dozens of absurd situations now.
It would also help explain how people are always getting tricked by daedric princes. You'd think the general population would be more on their guard when it came down to it, but if their teakettle tempts them with a deal, I could see them falling for it.I do really wonder how the "season" format will play out and be received. This first one doesn't feel that much different from a chapter, so it's hard to say. But if this does allow them to be more flexible, as they said, that could be a good thing. I wouldn't mind smaller, more contained stories if they were done well (and appropriately priced). I really didn't like having the dungeons and story bundled in this season. I never purchase dungeons, because they are always part of ESO+. But that's neither here nor there.
I agree with that. But at the same time I also hope it won't end with selling storylines completely seperately at some point. I mean, okay, in a way they already did that with the crown store companions last year, although those of course have a bit more functionality beyond their storyline. But I'd find it sad somehow if you'd really have to buy all kinds of questlines seperately. And it would probably get much more expensive for the player in total then, too.
That's the thing. If a season is only a few months, but you have to pay twenty dollars for it, it might seem like an ok price until you add up how many seasons were in the year and how much you paid in total and then find it was somehow double the price of what you used to pay for a chapter. So I'm a little wary of the season system, and what they'll be charging for it. And also how ESO+ fits into it. We just don't have enough information about it yet.Sometimes those big places are too big. I have no idea what to do with Sword-singer's Redoubt. It was my furniture warehouse before the vault existed.
Often the furnishing limit is much too low for the huge houses. Even worse with plots of land, since if you build your own buildings, these will already take up a few hundred slots until just the structure is finished, without any actual furniture having yet been placed at all.
I managed to fill up my Psijic Villa pretty well, I think, but I did run up against the furnishing limit. I don't know that I'm ever actually done with any of my houses, though, because sometimes I'll want to go in and change something up, especially if I find a new furnishing pattern that works well for the house. I've never bought an empty plot; I really don't have the desire to build structures. I just want to make them look nice for my characters.
Yes, but he's not the recipient of them, is he? He's more like a co-conspirator, or at least an observer.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I know a lot of people wanted Hammerfell this year. Well, a lot of forum people.
I too had hoped for Hammerfell, actually. There was some rumour, I think, early in the year about the 2025's location being some tropical island - or just tropical location? Honestly I can't even remember anymore where it was coming from. Were those Brazilian Carnival feather outfits already released at that point? Anyway, I can remember people talking about some tropical location, island or not, on this forum. And since we're still missing portions of Hammerfell, and there was that random encounter with those philosophers from the School of Julianos in Abibon-Gora in the last chapter, I thought we might get that region - Hammerfell's Western coast, maybe the mainland, maybe an island. Or maybe Cybiades, the place Azandar is claiming to be from. I found that idea fun.
Now I think they might do some tie-in thing with TES6 when it finally releases? At least it might work as an ad; something like "Explore Hammerfell in a different era in ESO", maybe even with a related prequel storyline, basically.
I'm not disappointed we got Solstice instead, by the way. It's just the quality of the writing I'm critical about - and less the general outline (the construction of the chapter's main quest as a story outline wasn't bad in itself at all), more the execution and the details: the many text repetitions, weird questions the player character has to ask, sometimes rather clichéd depictions, logic mistakes (the big final...), lore contradictions (Sanguine, Sithis),... well, we've discussed it in this very thread in detail.I wonder if they do intend to eventually fill out the map, or if they'll have us go someplace outside of Tamriel that isn't just another realm of oblivion.
I think, if they continue releasing new zones, at some point they would fill out Tamriel completely. Plus a few more daedric realms. And honestly, I'd love to travel to Pyandonea at some point. I think that's also the most probable location if they ever leave Tamriel (especially since they began to introduce more neutral and friendly Maormer characters now instead of limiting them all to hostile enemy type npcs). Akavir, on the other hand? Certainly not, no matter how interesting it is.I was disappointed with the Necrom announcement because I don't like Mora, didn't want to go to Apocrypha, and I have no use for Lovecraft. But I love Morrowind and Dunmer and the chance to learn more about their lore drew me in and I figured I'd just grit my teeth and get through the Apocrypha and Mora stuff.
Whether one enjoys that type of story or not, I found it strange that they evoked such clear expectations, by calling the chapter's main theme "Lovecraftian" and even "cosmic horror" - and then there's none of that. Or actually just the superficial style, the meme-ified idea, basically - tentacles, strange creatures, something about secret knowledge - but it lacked the expected depth. That's like announcing a romantic love story and there's nothing about love in the story, just lots of pink flowering trees in the landscape. Like a facade, but nothing beyond that. And that's something I see rather critically, no matter what the topic is supposed to be.I found Apocrypha unsettling enough visually; actually, I could only play in the green half in small chunks of time, because that color scheme actually made me nauseous. But physical unpleasantness aside, the place was eerie enough for me. Not as dangerous as it's always bigged up to be, and the insanity quotient wasn't as high as I thought it would be, but still fairly creepy.
I actually found it rather interesting to explore. But I'm a fossil collector, so I found the whole "primordial ocean" theme with huge ammonites and ancient oceanic plants awesome, of course.Mora himself didn't seem as creepy as he did in encounters past; he actually came across a bit like an absent-minded librarian who couldn't manage to handle the ruffians who were messing up the shelved books. A librarian with a penchant for policy meetings.
He certainly wasn't written the way you'd want to write a being that is supposed to be perceived as eldritch and incomprehensible.It would also help explain how people are always getting tricked by daedric princes. You'd think the general population would be more on their guard when it came down to it, but if their teakettle tempts them with a deal, I could see them falling for it.
I think I'd be especially sceptical if my tea kettle started talking to me, but I don't know much about ordinary people, so...That's the thing. If a season is only a few months, but you have to pay twenty dollars for it, it might seem like an ok price until you add up how many seasons were in the year and how much you paid in total and then find it was somehow double the price of what you used to pay for a chapter. So I'm a little wary of the season system, and what they'll be charging for it. And also how ESO+ fits into it. We just don't have enough information about it yet.
And not only that, the story part of some season could be rather small, with the main focus on other aspects - so if the only thing of it that interests you is the story, you have the choice between paying an unreasonable price for only a few hours of quest content, or not buying it, but missing that story content and lore completely then (Unless it becomes a free part of the base game at some point?). For someone interested in the lore, this is rather unsatisfying.I've never bought an empty plot; I really don't have the desire to build structures. I just want to make them look nice for my characters.
I've built my own small fortress on the Deadlands one that was an event reward, and I've bought the thing in Coldharbour with the intention to build a temple on it, but I haven't done much with that one yet.Yes, but he's not the recipient of them, is he? He's more like a co-conspirator, or at least an observer.
Of course he also gets surprises sometimes! Would be unfair if the Bosmer would get none of that, while everyone else does, no?@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I know a lot of people wanted Hammerfell this year. Well, a lot of forum people.
I too had hoped for Hammerfell, actually. There was some rumour, I think, early in the year about the 2025's location being some tropical island - or just tropical location? Honestly I can't even remember anymore where it was coming from. Were those Brazilian Carnival feather outfits already released at that point? Anyway, I can remember people talking about some tropical location, island or not, on this forum. And since we're still missing portions of Hammerfell, and there was that random encounter with those philosophers from the School of Julianos in Abibon-Gora in the last chapter, I thought we might get that region - Hammerfell's Western coast, maybe the mainland, maybe an island. Or maybe Cybiades, the place Azandar is claiming to be from. I found that idea fun.
Now I think they might do some tie-in thing with TES6 when it finally releases? At least it might work as an ad; something like "Explore Hammerfell in a different era in ESO", maybe even with a related prequel storyline, basically.
I'm not disappointed we got Solstice instead, by the way. It's just the quality of the writing I'm critical about - and less the general outline (the construction of the chapter's main quest as a story outline wasn't bad in itself at all), more the execution and the details: the many text repetitions, weird questions the player character has to ask, sometimes rather clichéd depictions, logic mistakes (the big final...), lore contradictions (Sanguine, Sithis),... well, we've discussed it in this very thread in detail.
I don't participate much in the speculation of what's coming next; generally I just wait for the announcement. I've noticed the forum population tends to have a fairly accurate guess when it comes to upcoming settings, so I did think, based on the past speculation successes, that we would be seeing Hammerfell. I would have been fine with that. Mainly the reason I specified the forum population is that this is pretty much the only place I see/read ESO news, so I wouldn't have much idea what people were speculating on outside of the forums.I wonder if they do intend to eventually fill out the map, or if they'll have us go someplace outside of Tamriel that isn't just another realm of oblivion.
I think, if they continue releasing new zones, at some point they would fill out Tamriel completely. Plus a few more daedric realms. And honestly, I'd love to travel to Pyandonea at some point. I think that's also the most probable location if they ever leave Tamriel (especially since they began to introduce more neutral and friendly Maormer characters now instead of limiting them all to hostile enemy type npcs). Akavir, on the other hand? Certainly not, no matter how interesting it is.
I've wondered if us going to Pyandonea could work, considering what Tamriel's general relationship with the Maomer has been. It's the same question I come up against when people request Maomer as a playable race: how would that work? Wouldn't our arrival on Pyandonea be seen more like invasion than exploration? Maomer running about on Solstice is one thing, since the island seems to have had regular trade with Pyandonea and not with Tamriel, but to my mind it's quite a leap from that to the Maomer treating us visiting Pyandonea as anything other than suspicious at best and hostile at worst. I wouldn't think they had yet forgotten the visit from the former Green Lady.I was disappointed with the Necrom announcement because I don't like Mora, didn't want to go to Apocrypha, and I have no use for Lovecraft. But I love Morrowind and Dunmer and the chance to learn more about their lore drew me in and I figured I'd just grit my teeth and get through the Apocrypha and Mora stuff.
Whether one enjoys that type of story or not, I found it strange that they evoked such clear expectations, by calling the chapter's main theme "Lovecraftian" and even "cosmic horror" - and then there's none of that. Or actually just the superficial style, the meme-ified idea, basically - tentacles, strange creatures, something about secret knowledge - but it lacked the expected depth. That's like announcing a romantic love story and there's nothing about love in the story, just lots of pink flowering trees in the landscape. Like a facade, but nothing beyond that. And that's something I see rather critically, no matter what the topic is supposed to be.
Yeah, I can see how it didn't live up to that particular hype.I found Apocrypha unsettling enough visually; actually, I could only play in the green half in small chunks of time, because that color scheme actually made me nauseous. But physical unpleasantness aside, the place was eerie enough for me. Not as dangerous as it's always bigged up to be, and the insanity quotient wasn't as high as I thought it would be, but still fairly creepy.
I actually found it rather interesting to explore. But I'm a fossil collector, so I found the whole "primordial ocean" theme with huge ammonites and ancient oceanic plants awesome, of course.
Even though I didn't much care for the visuals, I do think they were well done.Mora himself didn't seem as creepy as he did in encounters past; he actually came across a bit like an absent-minded librarian who couldn't manage to handle the ruffians who were messing up the shelved books. A librarian with a penchant for policy meetings.
He certainly wasn't written the way you'd want to write a being that is supposed to be perceived as eldritch and incomprehensible.
Part of that comes down to necessity--he can't be too incomprehensible if we're going to do chores for him. But even his depiction in that chapter was different from the couple other times I'd come across him in game. I still didn't like him, but he wasn't as off-putting as I'd found him before. Mostly, he came across to me as insufferable rather than unknowable.It would also help explain how people are always getting tricked by daedric princes. You'd think the general population would be more on their guard when it came down to it, but if their teakettle tempts them with a deal, I could see them falling for it.
I think I'd be especially sceptical if my tea kettle started talking to me, but I don't know much about ordinary people, so...
I probably would be, too, but I don't live in Tamriel where weird magic stuff is always going on. Mostly I meant they wouldn't expect someone as grand as a daedric prince to be their teakettle. They might think it was something akin to a reckless explorer trapped in a bottle.That's the thing. If a season is only a few months, but you have to pay twenty dollars for it, it might seem like an ok price until you add up how many seasons were in the year and how much you paid in total and then find it was somehow double the price of what you used to pay for a chapter. So I'm a little wary of the season system, and what they'll be charging for it. And also how ESO+ fits into it. We just don't have enough information about it yet.
And not only that, the story part of some season could be rather small, with the main focus on other aspects - so if the only thing of it that interests you is the story, you have the choice between paying an unreasonable price for only a few hours of quest content, or not buying it, but missing that story content and lore completely then (Unless it becomes a free part of the base game at some point?). For someone interested in the lore, this is rather unsatisfying.
I agree. If it comes down to waiting until the next season for the content to be added to ESO+, for example, I might well be experiencing the game at a delayed pace.
I'll be completely honest with you here: I wasn't aware the term "fair" ever came up in your calculations. I'd also be astounded to learn that these surprises you supposedly give the Bosmer were along the same lines as the ones you bestow on everyone else. 0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mainly the reason I specified the forum population is that this is pretty much the only place I see/read ESO news, so I wouldn't have much idea what people were speculating on outside of the forums.
I rarely, very rarely (like once every few months if I'm wondering about something specific), have a look at the ESO Reddit or the official Twitter channel, but other than that, I'm mostly here.I've wondered if us going to Pyandonea could work, considering what Tamriel's general relationship with the Maomer has been. It's the same question I come up against when people request Maomer as a playable race: how would that work? Wouldn't our arrival on Pyandonea be seen more like invasion than exploration? Maomer running about on Solstice is one thing, since the island seems to have had regular trade with Pyandonea and not with Tamriel, but to my mind it's quite a leap from that to the Maomer treating us visiting Pyandonea as anything other than suspicious at best and hostile at worst. I wouldn't think they had yet forgotten the visit from the former Green Lady.
No matter how plausible it is from a lore perspective, I could see some "There had been a cultural change, it's just the way it is now" reasoning before the release of that content. I honestly think introducing more positive Maormer characters in the latest content was the first step in that direction.Part of that comes down to necessity--he can't be too incomprehensible if we're going to do chores for him. But even his depiction in that chapter was different from the couple other times I'd come across him in game. I still didn't like him, but he wasn't as off-putting as I'd found him before. Mostly, he came across to me as insufferable rather than unknowable.
Honestly, I would find interacting with some very strange, incomprehensible creature quite interesting. Can't be worse than daily "human" interaction - maybe more educational, too.I probably would be, too, but I don't live in Tamriel where weird magic stuff is always going on. Mostly I meant they wouldn't expect someone as grand as a daedric prince to be their teakettle. They might think it was something akin to a reckless explorer trapped in a bottle.
I guess I'd still take it to the Temple or some experienced mage - if I wasn't one myself - to have it checked before I interact with that thing. Of course, many people of Tamriel are less cautious.I agree. If it comes down to waiting until the next season for the content to be added to ESO+, for example, I might well be experiencing the game at a delayed pace.
That would be my plan if the seasons offer too little story content for me. A pity still, of course, but the more important question is how many people would still buy the pass then, because if it would reduce revenue to a notable extent, they'd probably change the concept once more. But it's hard to say, really.I'll be completely honest with you here: I wasn't aware the term "fair" ever came up in your calculations. I'd also be astounded to learn that these surprises you supposedly give the Bosmer were along the same lines as the ones you bestow on everyone else.
Only the best for the Bosmer.
But back to the topic of writing: Isn't it, from the narrational perspective alone, a little unfortunate that they release Scribing for everyone now, while Vanny is imprisoned? Because the very first scribing quest npc you talk to mentions having just been sent by Vanny because some very important discovery has been made... Which is rather doubtful. I mean, Vanny making any discoveries right now. Or informing his Guild about... anything, really. I truly don't believe he's in any position to do these things at the moment. Unless he has videotelephony in his cell, that is.
Of course, generally, I hope he's not just in some musty cold cell. Not even only for his sake, but because anything else would be more interesting. I'm thinking a bit about a situation where Mannimarco might try to win him over. How about a private chamber in his castle instead of a dark cell? Basically a "kept in a gilded cage" situation - presented all kinds of luxuries (to the extent that's possible at that place), but still a prisoner. Of course, subjected to many attempts of corruption. No matter whether he's receptive for it or not, it just gives more narrative options instead of just having him sit somewhere in the dark, doing nothing.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I've wondered if us going to Pyandonea could work, considering what Tamriel's general relationship with the Maomer has been. It's the same question I come up against when people request Maomer as a playable race: how would that work? Wouldn't our arrival on Pyandonea be seen more like invasion than exploration? Maomer running about on Solstice is one thing, since the island seems to have had regular trade with Pyandonea and not with Tamriel, but to my mind it's quite a leap from that to the Maomer treating us visiting Pyandonea as anything other than suspicious at best and hostile at worst. I wouldn't think they had yet forgotten the visit from the former Green Lady.
No matter how plausible it is from a lore perspective, I could see some "There had been a cultural change, it's just the way it is now" reasoning before the release of that content. I honestly think introducing more positive Maormer characters in the latest content was the first step in that direction.
It could well be; I think going to Pyandonea is a very popular wish among the player base. I know they could probably work out some reason; after all, they figured out how to open Summerset to the masses. I just don't know how much I could accept that the Maomer are cool with us tramping around on Pyandonea now. I wouldn't want just a repeat of the Summerset vibe, where some Altmer were snotty to us and dismissive. And if the quests were the standard, "Hey, help me!" while they were sneering at me, it'd be harder to rationalize why my character would bother. But it is possible they could write a compelling story why we're going to Pyandonea and why the Maomer are ok with that.Part of that comes down to necessity--he can't be too incomprehensible if we're going to do chores for him. But even his depiction in that chapter was different from the couple other times I'd come across him in game. I still didn't like him, but he wasn't as off-putting as I'd found him before. Mostly, he came across to me as insufferable rather than unknowable.
Honestly, I would find interacting with some very strange, incomprehensible creature quite interesting. Can't be worse than daily "human" interaction - maybe more educational, too.
Well, to each their own! I get my fill of incomprehensible behavior in real life people.But back to the topic of writing: Isn't it, from the narrational perspective alone, a little unfortunate that they release Scribing for everyone now, while Vanny is imprisoned? Because the very first scribing quest npc you talk to mentions having just been sent by Vanny because some very important discovery has been made... Which is rather doubtful. I mean, Vanny making any discoveries right now. Or informing his Guild about... anything, really. I truly don't believe he's in any position to do these things at the moment. Unless he has videotelephony in his cell, that is.
Of course, generally, I hope he's not just in some musty cold cell. Not even only for his sake, but because anything else would be more interesting. I'm thinking a bit about a situation where Mannimarco might try to win him over. How about a private chamber in his castle instead of a dark cell? Basically a "kept in a gilded cage" situation - presented all kinds of luxuries (to the extent that's possible at that place), but still a prisoner. Of course, subjected to many attempts of corruption. No matter whether he's receptive for it or not, it just gives more narrative options instead of just having him sit somewhere in the dark, doing nothing.
It's all part of the continuity conundrum when everything happens at once until it doesn't anymore. I'm glad time is finally progressing and that we're getting an actual story sequel where content order matters (to some degree; I mean, you can still play Solstice without having done the main quest in the base game). So Vanny has to be both currently captured and yet still leading the guild in past content. I wonder how many people there are who are doing the scribing quest for the first time and have already played the Solstice content and are paying attention to the continuity details.
I would think the narrative perspective a little more odd if they hadn't already done things like this so many times in the past. (If you do Elsweyr before the main quest, you experience Abnur's mysterious end of Elsweyr fate, but then later pal around with him in whatever harbourage cave your faction has access to).
But as to Vanny's current situation, I could see a scenario where Mannimarco tries to get him to join up, as it were. And perhaps Vanny uses that to the best of his advantage. I would expect Vanny to have learned something by the time we eventually rescue him, and it would be more interesting if he learned it by playing a deep game with Mannimarco rather than just overhearing loose-lipped cultists having a little chat outside his cell.
As for Vanny communicating with the guild while captured, maybe he's treating them to that same bizarre projection we saw, where his eyeballs and teeth are the most visible part of him. But nobody has mentioned it specifically because it's weird, and they aren't sure what to make of it. They probably think the old man has gone and lost it for good this time.1 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It could well be; I think going to Pyandonea is a very popular wish among the player base. I know they could probably work out some reason; after all, they figured out how to open Summerset to the masses. I just don't know how much I could accept that the Maomer are cool with us tramping around on Pyandonea now. I wouldn't want just a repeat of the Summerset vibe, where some Altmer were snotty to us and dismissive. And if the quests were the standard, "Hey, help me!" while they were sneering at me, it'd be harder to rationalize why my character would bother. But it is possible they could write a compelling story why we're going to Pyandonea and why the Maomer are ok with that.
I guess it would probably come to some "Pyandonea needs help" story, not only to justify how non-Pyandoneans would be welcomed to the island, but also because there always has to be some kind of huge (and most often daedric) threat. Do I like it? Well, let's say I was already disappointed how Necrom - which was supposed to be the Dunmer's most sacred city, burial place of great ancestors, and Temple capital - basically felt like some completely uncontrolled tourist spot in that chapter. While I don't say player characters should have never been allowed to enter Necrom, I think it could have been designed a little differently. Not just like the average hub city.
And while we're at Pyandonea: I also think we'll see Maormer player characters at some point. It would of course be difficult to explain how that would work with the Aldmeri Dominion storyline, particularly on Khenarthi's Roost, but I don't think story and lore plausibility has the highest priority anymore anyway, to be honest. Players can completely mess up the logical continuity by playing the latest content before the main story or before the Fighters Guild questline - so one might say they're also free to mess up the AD story by playing a Maormer, if they wish to do so.Well, to each their own! I get my fill of incomprehensible behavior in real life people.
That's a different type of incomprehensibility. A not very pleasant one(And right now I truly have too much of that, which is the reason I'm writing here less often than I'd wish to; in case you wondered.)I'm glad time is finally progressing and that we're getting an actual story sequel where content order matters (to some degree; I mean, you can still play Solstice without having done the main quest in the base game).
I agree, although I am wondering about how much chaos that might cause for new players. Maybe it really wouldn't be bad if they'd at least have some pop-up message telling players what stories would actually have to be played beforehand, upon starting the new Solstice questline. Same goes for people starting CWC or Summerset without having finished Morrowind, or people starting Gold Road before Necrom. It should still remain the player's choice, but they could get a little notice at least, so they know what's going on and can make an informed decision. If they can give us a pop-up text box in Li-Xal Pass if we try to get inside without Gabrielle, they could do that as well.I wonder how many people there are who are doing the scribing quest for the first time and have already played the Solstice content and are paying attention to the continuity details.
Well, that's a good question. Would a new player who just joined go for Scribing first? If I had found interest in ESO just recently, I'd probably have read into the newest content, found out it's a sequel to the base game story, so I'd probably have played that one and then Solstice, and then probably some other chapter story that interests me after that.
Then again, I personally don't really find Scribing interesting at all, to be honest. I did that questline once last year because of that rewards one got for it, and now I thought about doing it a second time on a side character for the Golden Pursuit - but ended up doing the other tasks instead because I got really bored. I'm not saying it's bad, but it's too repetative for me, not the most interesting story, and not much happens anyway. Also, the atmosphere is strangely un-TES, if that makes sense (yes, we're finally back at the topic of writing )? The whole style and tone works well for fairytale or fable (I think the latter was the writers' intention), but it just doesn't feel like TES to me (and if I play a TES game, obviously, I want it to feel like TES). The more I think about it, there's also a bit of moral lecturing already in that questline (in particular the lesson at the end of the whole thing), but back then I didn't think much about it but attested it to the fable theme. Now I just hope that's not the general tone set for this game for the future.But as to Vanny's current situation, I could see a scenario where Mannimarco tries to get him to join up, as it were. And perhaps Vanny uses that to the best of his advantage. I would expect Vanny to have learned something by the time we eventually rescue him, and it would be more interesting if he learned it by playing a deep game with Mannimarco rather than just overhearing loose-lipped cultists having a little chat outside his cell.
Honestly, I'd love to see a brainwashed magically manipulated Vanny siding with Mannimarco and refusing to leave him now Imagine the drama of rescueing him from the dark marriage ceremony binding him to the man he loves! Of course with best intentions in mind only, because that poor man obviously suffers from Windhelm Syndrome and also because two evil wizards would certainly lead to Nirn's end! Also, they want us to be mean to Vanny, for whatever reasons, so destroying his relationship once more would fit.
From the drama perspective, I'd also find a depressed Vanny interesting. I mean, he never seems really happy, right? Might he question his life choices in his current situation? How receptive might he be right now to manipulation? We know Mannimarco could captivate him when he was young. Thinking of his childhood, maybe he was the first one who gave him attention and showed him affection? And probably not the first, but the only one. Of course, Vanny is 350 years older now and not a naive boy anymore, but the longing for basic things he had been deprived of in his childhood might still be there.
Of course, all this goes beyond obvious stereotyping and black/white or good/evil character concepts, so it's unlikely we'll see a more complex background characterization like this. Maybe back when CWC was released - but today? Unlikely, I'd say. Sadly. Unless we see another big change of direction.
But seriously, I'd really find some temporary truce situation with Mannimarco interesting (and certainly unexpected - that would actually be a plot twist for once!), probably against some greater evil (Molag Bal? Wormblood doing something he should not? In any way, a schism of some kind).
Have you seen this, by the way? Mannimarco all alone, on his pixelated isolated throne:
https://esosslfiles-a.akamaihd.net/ape/uploads/2025/06/b68245d7378e46340627a3640f425135.jpg
It's from this new news article:
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/68325
I don't think I've seen that picture anywhere before. Made me wonder whethere they just sat Mannimarco's old character model on some throne to make it specifically for this article (or other promo purposes) or whether's it's from the upcoming content in Part 2 somehow (probably from the marriage ceremony with Vanny that we have to ruin). If so, he doesn't really look any younger, and I think even the scar is the same?@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭It could well be; I think going to Pyandonea is a very popular wish among the player base. I know they could probably work out some reason; after all, they figured out how to open Summerset to the masses. I just don't know how much I could accept that the Maomer are cool with us tramping around on Pyandonea now. I wouldn't want just a repeat of the Summerset vibe, where some Altmer were snotty to us and dismissive. And if the quests were the standard, "Hey, help me!" while they were sneering at me, it'd be harder to rationalize why my character would bother. But it is possible they could write a compelling story why we're going to Pyandonea and why the Maomer are ok with that.
I guess it would probably come to some "Pyandonea needs help" story, not only to justify how non-Pyandoneans would be welcomed to the island, but also because there always has to be some kind of huge (and most often daedric) threat. Do I like it? Well, let's say I was already disappointed how Necrom - which was supposed to be the Dunmer's most sacred city, burial place of great ancestors, and Temple capital - basically felt like some completely uncontrolled tourist spot in that chapter. While I don't say player characters should have never been allowed to enter Necrom, I think it could have been designed a little differently. Not just like the average hub city.
And while we're at Pyandonea: I also think we'll see Maormer player characters at some point. It would of course be difficult to explain how that would work with the Aldmeri Dominion storyline, particularly on Khenarthi's Roost, but I don't think story and lore plausibility has the highest priority anymore anyway, to be honest. Players can completely mess up the logical continuity by playing the latest content before the main story or before the Fighters Guild questline - so one might say they're also free to mess up the AD story by playing a Maormer, if they wish to do so.
If it is a "Pyandonea needs help" type of story, I would prefer if it was something non-daedric. An isolated island kingdom with a (supposedly) immortal sorcerer king could surely have a threatening calamity that wasn't extra-planar. Playable Maomer would be a big hit with a lot of people, I think. I know some people use cosmetics and skins to make their characters Maomer for their backstory and character lore. I know ZOS wouldn't actually do this, but it would be interesting if they made it so Maomer could not be part of the Aldmeri Dominion. That way there'd be no cognitive dissonance with Khenarthi's Roost (and quite a few quests in Auridon and other zones, too). And, yes, that goes out the window with Cadwell's Silver and Gold, but then according to that particular lore, Meridia makes it so that works out. However, in the end, ZOS has been very reluctant to add new playable races, so I honestly don't know if that is something they would ever do.Well, to each their own! I get my fill of incomprehensible behavior in real life people.
That's a different type of incomprehensibility. A not very pleasant one(And right now I truly have too much of that, which is the reason I'm writing here less often than I'd wish to; in case you wondered.)
I did wonder, because I wonder about things all the time. I figured it was something like that, based on past conversations. Real life always getting in the way of things!I'm glad time is finally progressing and that we're getting an actual story sequel where content order matters (to some degree; I mean, you can still play Solstice without having done the main quest in the base game).
I agree, although I am wondering about how much chaos that might cause for new players. Maybe it really wouldn't be bad if they'd at least have some pop-up message telling players what stories would actually have to be played beforehand, upon starting the new Solstice questline. Same goes for people starting CWC or Summerset without having finished Morrowind, or people starting Gold Road before Necrom. It should still remain the player's choice, but they could get a little notice at least, so they know what's going on and can make an informed decision. If they can give us a pop-up text box in Li-Xal Pass if we try to get inside without Gabrielle, they could do that as well.
I think an in-game guide to the chronology of stories is something that is sorely needed. I've seen people post often enough on the forums, asking for the order in which to do the stories/content, that I think an in-game guide would be well-received and useful. Since I didn't start until 2017, I had to look up online the release order for content, so that I could get the most continuity out of it as possible. As someone who loves stories, that matters to me.I wonder how many people there are who are doing the scribing quest for the first time and have already played the Solstice content and are paying attention to the continuity details.
Well, that's a good question. Would a new player who just joined go for Scribing first? If I had found interest in ESO just recently, I'd probably have read into the newest content, found out it's a sequel to the base game story, so I'd probably have played that one and then Solstice, and then probably some other chapter story that interests me after that.
Then again, I personally don't really find Scribing interesting at all, to be honest. I did that questline once last year because of that rewards one got for it, and now I thought about doing it a second time on a side character for the Golden Pursuit - but ended up doing the other tasks instead because I got really bored. I'm not saying it's bad, but it's too repetative for me, not the most interesting story, and not much happens anyway. Also, the atmosphere is strangely un-TES, if that makes sense (yes, we're finally back at the topic of writing )? The whole style and tone works well for fairytale or fable (I think the latter was the writers' intention), but it just doesn't feel like TES to me (and if I play a TES game, obviously, I want it to feel like TES). The more I think about it, there's also a bit of moral lecturing already in that questline (in particular the lesson at the end of the whole thing), but back then I didn't think much about it but attested it to the fable theme. Now I just hope that's not the general tone set for this game for the future.
I guess it comes down to what people are looking for in the game. When I first learned about scribing in the reveal for Gold Road, I wasn't interested. Spell-crafting in a single player game can be wild and unrestrained, because there's no need to worry about "balance" for trials and pvp. But in an MMO? Well, I figured it wouldn't really be worth anything.
When I eventually bought Gold Road, I was interested in the scribing quests, because I liked the lore around them, and the general idea of people adept at magic crafting more potent spells for themselves. I liked learning more about Ulfsild, who before we only saw in the Mages Guild quest line as part of Shalidor's past, where she left him (best decision she ever made!). And the quests themselves were interesting enough the first time through, because of the fables and the luminary dialogue. (The actual quest mechanics were all pretty same-y and not that interesting). But until recently, I only ever did the quests on my main character, and didn't even bother with scribing on any other character, because that's how uninterested I am in it. Also, the grindy nature of collecting scripts is a big turn-off. I am not that into dailies. So I did go through the quests again on my second account as part of the golden pursuit, and from my perspective, second time through: not that great. I really don't know how people with many characters do that whole chain and collect all the scripts on all their characters.But as to Vanny's current situation, I could see a scenario where Mannimarco tries to get him to join up, as it were. And perhaps Vanny uses that to the best of his advantage. I would expect Vanny to have learned something by the time we eventually rescue him, and it would be more interesting if he learned it by playing a deep game with Mannimarco rather than just overhearing loose-lipped cultists having a little chat outside his cell.
Honestly, I'd love to see a brainwashed magically manipulated Vanny siding with Mannimarco and refusing to leave him now Imagine the drama of rescueing him from the dark marriage ceremony binding him to the man he loves! Of course with best intentions in mind only, because that poor man obviously suffers from Windhelm Syndrome and also because two evil wizards would certainly lead to Nirn's end! Also, they want us to be mean to Vanny, for whatever reasons, so destroying his relationship once more would fit.
From the drama perspective, I'd also find a depressed Vanny interesting. I mean, he never seems really happy, right? Might he question his life choices in his current situation? How receptive might he be right now to manipulation? We know Mannimarco could captivate him when he was young. Thinking of his childhood, maybe he was the first one who gave him attention and showed him affection? And probably not the first, but the only one. Of course, Vanny is 350 years older now and not a naive boy anymore, but the longing for basic things he had been deprived of in his childhood might still be there.
Of course, all this goes beyond obvious stereotyping and black/white or good/evil character concepts, so it's unlikely we'll see a more complex background characterization like this. Maybe back when CWC was released - but today? Unlikely, I'd say. Sadly. Unless we see another big change of direction.
Dramatic stopping of a dark wedding aside, it would be interesting to have to try to pull Vanny back from Mannimarco's influence. Vanny's been so vocal for so long about how much he hates the Worm Cult and Mannimarco that it might be difficult to pull off, but honestly...being taken prisoner by the Worm Cult and held for who knows what reasons and unable to Great Mage his way out of it...that could take its toll. And what if, after all this time, he's just tired of it all? I really could see him being pushed past his limits to the point where he somehow thinks aiding Mannimarco might work out in the end.But seriously, I'd really find some temporary truce situation with Mannimarco interesting (and certainly unexpected - that would actually be a plot twist for once!), probably against some greater evil (Molag Bal? Wormblood doing something he should not? In any way, a schism of some kind).
Well, I am hoping for something less obvious than we somehow beat down Mannimarco. Partly because we know he ultimately survives, and partly because we did that already. Plus, I really don't want them to have wasted the potential of Wormblood on a simple body swap.Have you seen this, by the way? Mannimarco all alone, on his pixelated isolated throne:
https://esosslfiles-a.akamaihd.net/ape/uploads/2025/06/b68245d7378e46340627a3640f425135.jpg
It's from this new news article:
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/68325
I don't think I've seen that picture anywhere before. Made me wonder whethere they just sat Mannimarco's old character model on some throne to make it specifically for this article (or other promo purposes) or whether's it's from the upcoming content in Part 2 somehow (probably from the marriage ceremony with Vanny that we have to ruin). If so, he doesn't really look any younger, and I think even the scar is the same?
I did see that! Mannimarco giving us some serious side-eye in that image! I assumed he was sitting on the imperial throne, and that it hearkens back to what started this whole thing back in the beginning. I'd not seen the image before this article, so no idea if it was newly made or had been kicking around since the beginning of the game. He does look pretty much the same as we see him in-game, so I think it's meant to be from the time he conned Varen into the whole ridiculous ritual.
The article states: In ESO, you can delve deep into the origins of one of Tamriel’s most-famous villains during the era of his ascension.
Considering we "beat" him in the main quest, it's a pretty short-lived ascension, unless they also mean the Solstice part of the story, where he's back and badder than ever. An ascension in two parts? Multi-ascending Mannimarco.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If it is a "Pyandonea needs help" type of story, I would prefer if it was something non-daedric.
Sea level rise.
I agree that a completely different cultural background, for once, would also be a nice base for some kind of different threat (also considering that some people are a little tired of all stories being about some kind of daedric invasion or cultists or something like that), at best something closely related to Maormer culture in itself - be it habits, politics, history. It would be an interesting way to elaborate on their lore, and I somehow like if a threat doesn't feel random/non-related, but seems to have a specific cause somehow rooted in a region's or people's history. Generally, I'd like to see more lore-related instead of general problems coming up in stories. Of cause some topics are universal and interesting enough to be made into a story, but I just enjoy everything that contributes more (and most of all plausibly) to some region's background lore and history. Events that plausibly fill "lore gaps" or explain future events (we already know about through TES games that take place later in the timeline) are also always appreciated.I think an in-game guide to the chronology of stories is something that is sorely needed. I've seen people post often enough on the forums, asking for the order in which to do the stories/content, that I think an in-game guide would be well-received and useful. Since I didn't start until 2017, I had to look up online the release order for content, so that I could get the most continuity out of it as possible. As someone who loves stories, that matters to me.
In the end, the game itself would benefit from people having a better and more congruent experience - it just leads to a better impression, and, in the end, better reviews.Also, the grindy nature of collecting scripts is a big turn-off. I am not that into dailies.
Exactly that. It very time-consuming and I know I have limited play time, so I don't really want to get into it much, because I know it would bother me to "waste" my playtime on grinding these, when I'd actually rather do something else. And then it's not really fun for me, but rather frustrating.When I eventually bought Gold Road, I was interested in the scribing quests, because I liked the lore around them, and the general idea of people adept at magic crafting more potent spells for themselves. I liked learning more about Ulfsild, who before we only saw in the Mages Guild quest line as part of Shalidor's past, where she left him (best decision she ever made!). And the quests themselves were interesting enough the first time through, because of the fables and the luminary dialogue. (The actual quest mechanics were all pretty same-y and not that interesting). But until recently, I only ever did the quests on my main character, and didn't even bother with scribing on any other character, because that's how uninterested I am in it. (...) So I did go through the quests again on my second account as part of the golden pursuit, and from my perspective, second time through: not that great.
In itself, I didn't find the story bad. For the fable/fairytale-like story it's supposed to be (well, at least that was my impression), it was well-written. But it's not really what I look for when playing TES; and while going through it once was not a bad experience, I don't really "need" that a second time. Or a third, or 4th, etc. Maybe in 5 or 7 years again, but so soon? Not for me. But I'm generally not a person who likes to watch movies or shows or read books several times within a short period of time. I do re-watch and re-read (and in some cases it's really interesting how interpretations might change over the years), but only after some significant amount of time has passed.Vanny's been so vocal for so long about how much he hates the Worm Cult and Mannimarco that it might be difficult to pull off
It's a bit striking, no? The way he emphasizes it so much, all the time? No one else seems to be that vocal about any other of the many world-ending threats we come across in ESO. Which again leads to the question: How much of that are his true feelings, and how much of it is facade? Or trying to convince himself that, of course, his endless pursuit of Mannimarco is based on hatred. Yes, hatred for the vile immoral necromancer! Nothing else at all.being taken prisoner by the Worm Cult and held for who knows what reasons and unable to Great Mage his way out of it...that could take its toll. And what if, after all this time, he's just tired of it all? I really could see him being pushed past his limits to the point where he somehow thinks aiding Mannimarco might work out in the end.
I'd really love to see that. That would be exactly the type of boldness I'd wish for ESO's storytelling: Something not completely obvious, slightly (or even more than just slightly) unexpected, some daring story instead of just the formulaic "Here's the good guys, there's the baddie, everything is clear, now be the good hero and defeat the baddies - who are bad because they're born evil or something - , because that's what heroes do".Well, I am hoping for something less obvious than we somehow beat down Mannimarco. Partly because we know he ultimately survives, and partly because we did that already. Plus, I really don't want them to have wasted the potential of Wormblood on a simple body swap.
I fear that's exactly what we'll get though.I did see that! Mannimarco giving us some serious side-eye in that image!
To be honest, I found it really funny somehow. Who is he even staring at like that? Is he posing for some Worm Cult painter (hopefully a better artist than that one who made the sarcophagus that was already severely weathered after a few years - a clear misjudgement when choosing the material) - trying to look extra unfriendly this time? Is he staring at Vanny (from the perspective, Vanny must be on a lower level then, though; maybe it's his turn to be shackled to some slab now)?I'd not seen the image before this article, so no idea if it was newly made or had been kicking around since the beginning of the game. He does look pretty much the same as we see him in-game, so I think it's meant to be from the time he conned Varen into the whole ridiculous ritual.
I did a reverse search; the picture is indeed new.The article states: In ESO, you can delve deep into the origins of one of Tamriel’s most-famous villains during the era of his ascension.
Considering we "beat" him in the main quest, it's a pretty short-lived ascension, unless they also mean the Solstice part of the story, where he's back and badder than ever. An ascension in two parts? Multi-ascending Mannimarco.
And in Daggerfall he's the friendly questgiver lich next door. An interesting course of ascension indeed.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake1 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭If it is a "Pyandonea needs help" type of story, I would prefer if it was something non-daedric.
Sea level rise.
I agree that a completely different cultural background, for once, would also be a nice base for some kind of different threat (also considering that some people are a little tired of all stories being about some kind of daedric invasion or cultists or something like that), at best something closely related to Maormer culture in itself - be it habits, politics, history. It would be an interesting way to elaborate on their lore, and I somehow like if a threat doesn't feel random/non-related, but seems to have a specific cause somehow rooted in a region's or people's history. Generally, I'd like to see more lore-related instead of general problems coming up in stories. Of cause some topics are universal and interesting enough to be made into a story, but I just enjoy everything that contributes more (and most of all plausibly) to some region's background lore and history. Events that plausibly fill "lore gaps" or explain future events (we already know about through TES games that take place later in the timeline) are also always appreciated.
Considering how much I don't know about Pyandonea and Maomer culture, the whole zone could be a rich discovery of it all for me. I think it could be a great way to give us more (and good) lore about the Maomer if the inciting incident that gets us there is plausible enough (particularly for Altmer and, to a lesser extent, Aldmeri Dominion members). They've done these kind of stories before, and done them well. People love Wrothgar and Murkmire for their localized stories and racial lore. Of course, those weren't full chapters on their own (even though, I know, Wrothgar is more or less chapter sized). It kind of seems like, in the past, to sell a chapter, they went bigger and flashier, so we get big villains and end of the world threats.
Anyway, with how they're doing content now (seasons) it's really hard to say what we can expect to get as far as landmasses go. Chapters had definite parameters and expectations; seasons are just getting started.When I eventually bought Gold Road, I was interested in the scribing quests, because I liked the lore around them, and the general idea of people adept at magic crafting more potent spells for themselves. I liked learning more about Ulfsild, who before we only saw in the Mages Guild quest line as part of Shalidor's past, where she left him (best decision she ever made!). And the quests themselves were interesting enough the first time through, because of the fables and the luminary dialogue. (The actual quest mechanics were all pretty same-y and not that interesting). But until recently, I only ever did the quests on my main character, and didn't even bother with scribing on any other character, because that's how uninterested I am in it. (...) So I did go through the quests again on my second account as part of the golden pursuit, and from my perspective, second time through: not that great.
In itself, I didn't find the story bad. For the fable/fairytale-like story it's supposed to be (well, at least that was my impression), it was well-written. But it's not really what I look for when playing TES; and while going through it once was not a bad experience, I don't really "need" that a second time. Or a third, or 4th, etc. Maybe in 5 or 7 years again, but so soon? Not for me. But I'm generally not a person who likes to watch movies or shows or read books several times within a short period of time. I do re-watch and re-read (and in some cases it's really interesting how interpretations might change over the years), but only after some significant amount of time has passed.
The Scholarium quests and lore do have a different feel/vibe to them from the usual that we get in Elder Scrolls. For a place lost to time and intentionally hidden to keep the luminaries out of Sheogorath's grip, I think it worked for that kind of other-worldly (or out of time) feeling. The whole was very much a fable--the luminary stories are even called such directly--and had a different kind of magical feeling to it than we're used to. I think it pretty well represented the different way that Ulfsild approached magic compared to Shalidor.
I do replay quests all the time in game, going through them on various characters (and paying various levels of attention to them), but something about the Scholarium quests make them less appealing to me on replay. The first time through, they had that feeling of newness and discovery, of course, but I don't know why these quests in particular don't bear as much replay as other quests. Maybe, as you suggested, not enough time has elapsed. Maybe it's also that the whole point of them (scribing) doesn't interest me, so it's harder for me to think other characters need to fuss around with it.Vanny's been so vocal for so long about how much he hates the Worm Cult and Mannimarco that it might be difficult to pull off
It's a bit striking, no? The way he emphasizes it so much, all the time? No one else seems to be that vocal about any other of the many world-ending threats we come across in ESO. Which again leads to the question: How much of that are his true feelings, and how much of it is facade? Or trying to convince himself that, of course, his endless pursuit of Mannimarco is based on hatred. Yes, hatred for the vile immoral necromancer! Nothing else at all.
It's a passionate kind of hatred; the kind that comes from betrayal (among other reasons). It means more to him, perhaps, because he was there when it all started and he failed to stop it (or convince Iachesis to take it seriously). And then, he may or may not feel guilty about Mannimarco being "unleashed" on all of Tamriel instead of being confined to Artaeum.
Or it could be somewhat of a put-on, a show of excessive hatred to mask other feelings. He knows he should be opposed to it, so he shows everyone just how opposed he is. I mean, he wouldn't even listen to Vastarie's findings because they came from a necromancer: it's like he has to show at all times that nothing about necromancy could ever be good or useful.
I think we're meant to take his feelings about the Worm Cult and Mannimarco at face value, but that's hard to do once you've seen the flashbacks in the Traitor's Vault.being taken prisoner by the Worm Cult and held for who knows what reasons and unable to Great Mage his way out of it...that could take its toll. And what if, after all this time, he's just tired of it all? I really could see him being pushed past his limits to the point where he somehow thinks aiding Mannimarco might work out in the end.
I'd really love to see that. That would be exactly the type of boldness I'd wish for ESO's storytelling: Something not completely obvious, slightly (or even more than just slightly) unexpected, some daring story instead of just the formulaic "Here's the good guys, there's the baddie, everything is clear, now be the good hero and defeat the baddies - who are bad because they're born evil or something - , because that's what heroes do".
It would be a nice change, and an interesting exploration. Vanny's a complex character and he deserves more complex storylines than he's been given. Or I should say, he should have more interesting things to say to us than he usually does. His general bombastic air can be amusing, but it is one-note.Well, I am hoping for something less obvious than we somehow beat down Mannimarco. Partly because we know he ultimately survives, and partly because we did that already. Plus, I really don't want them to have wasted the potential of Wormblood on a simple body swap.
I fear that's exactly what we'll get though.
Yeah, probably. But I still hope for something unexpected!I did see that! Mannimarco giving us some serious side-eye in that image!
To be honest, I found it really funny somehow. Who is he even staring at like that? Is he posing for some Worm Cult painter (hopefully a better artist than that one who made the sarcophagus that was already severely weathered after a few years - a clear misjudgement when choosing the material) - trying to look extra unfriendly this time? Is he staring at Vanny (from the perspective, Vanny must be on a lower level then, though; maybe it's his turn to be shackled to some slab now)?
Maybe he was getting really impatient with how long it was taking to paint his portrait. That throne can't be all that comfortable. Or probably he considers everyone in every world and plane beneath him, and so that's just how he looks: resting stink-eye face.The article states: In ESO, you can delve deep into the origins of one of Tamriel’s most-famous villains during the era of his ascension.
Considering we "beat" him in the main quest, it's a pretty short-lived ascension, unless they also mean the Solstice part of the story, where he's back and badder than ever. An ascension in two parts? Multi-ascending Mannimarco.
And in Daggerfall he's the friendly questgiver lich next door. An interesting course of ascension indeed.
Lol...well, the path to ultimate power is a long one, and apparently there are a few setbacks along the way. In Oblivion, is he considered to be at the top of his game, or has he fallen somewhat from where he had been, power and influence wise?0 -
mdjessup4906✭✭✭✭I really don't know how people with many characters do that whole chain and collect all the scripts on all their characters.
Thankfully, you dont have to do the whole thing on alts to get access to scribing, just the first one, up to the grimorie merchant being unlocked.
I think those quests were really cute and engaging, and had more effort put into them than the whole of the Gold Road mq, but they didn't really feel like TES. Maybe not cynical or depreaciatingly self-aware enough lol.
As for Oblivion Mannimarco, eh let's just say Daggerfall Manny was his prime
Edited by mdjessup4906 on 18 July 2025 14:170 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭mdjessup4906 wrote: »I really don't know how people with many characters do that whole chain and collect all the scripts on all their characters.
Thankfully, you dont have to do the whole thing on alts to get access to scribing, just the first one, up to the grimorie merchant being unlocked.
I think those quests were really cute and engaging, and had more effort put into them than the whole of the Gold Road mq, but they didn't really feel like TES. Maybe not cynical or depreaciatingly self-aware enough lol.
As for Oblivion Mannimarco, eh let's just say Daggerfall Manny was his prime
The Scholarium quests definitely had a very different feel to them, and I did enjoy my first playthrough of them.
Isn't Daggerfall Mannimarco purely lich? I wonder if he prefers that state to having a body. Makes me wonder how he lost his Wormblood body and if we get to see any of that lich transformation in ESO.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Considering how much I don't know about Pyandonea and Maomer culture, the whole zone could be a rich discovery of it all for me. I think it could be a great way to give us more (and good) lore about the Maomer if the inciting incident that gets us there is plausible enough (particularly for Altmer and, to a lesser extent, Aldmeri Dominion members). They've done these kind of stories before, and done them well. People love Wrothgar and Murkmire for their localized stories and racial lore.
If done well, it would be a wonderful addition to TES lore as a whole. I'm a little sceptical right now though how creative they'd actually get, and whether they might follow real world morals too much when writing said lore - as in avoiding "unsavory" topics altogether, or the opposite, having a very clichéd approach where negative traditions (from a modern real world perspective) are excessively used as markers for a character (or a group of characters) being "the evil ones". Like making the average town Maormer friendly, open to other cultures, tolerant and strongly believing in individual freedom - but the evil baddie Lord on the other side of the hill is intolerant and owns slaves, because he's The Evil Guy! Even if the Maormer's cultural stance actually wouldn't have to abide real world morals at all. The average person could be very sceptical towards outsiders, or could find slavery normal (Many of them are pirates, maybe the slave trade is part of their culture since centuries? Not even sure whether there's already something like that in lore). I truly see the risk that they don't want to show us an actually morally foreign culture anymore, but would sanitize it from negative aspects first or completely model it according to today's real world morals. We've seen it in other stories already, after all, with the West Weald Bosmer not participating in cannibalism or the weird family friendly Sanguine worship on Solstice.Anyway, with how they're doing content now (seasons) it's really hard to say what we can expect to get as far as landmasses go. Chapters had definite parameters and expectations; seasons are just getting started.
I too did think that new landmasses would be a rarer things from now on, but then who knows whether they might change the whole concept again after the latest changes to the studio? It might now be more important than ever to focus on what most people would like to see - and with all the forum complaints about ever smaller new zones that I've seen I think that people absolutely do want new areas to explore.The Scholarium quests and lore do have a different feel/vibe to them from the usual that we get in Elder Scrolls. For a place lost to time and intentionally hidden to keep the luminaries out of Sheogorath's grip, I think it worked for that kind of other-worldly (or out of time) feeling. The whole was very much a fable--the luminary stories are even called such directly--and had a different kind of magical feeling to it than we're used to. I think it pretty well represented the different way that Ulfsild approached magic compared to Shalidor.
That's true, for what it was supposed to be, it fit. A different question, to me, is how this all fits into the lore of Mundus that we knew so far. And whether it's truly what appeals to the average player and their expectations.I do replay quests all the time in game, going through them on various characters (and paying various levels of attention to them), but something about the Scholarium quests make them less appealing to me on replay. The first time through, they had that feeling of newness and discovery, of course, but I don't know why these quests in particular don't bear as much replay as other quests.
Honestly, I'm not sure what it is, but it's the same for me. I also repeat quests on side characters, and truly enjoy it, but in this case... It's really the first time I stopped after the first part and thought: No. It bores me, I'm doing something else. Makes me wonder how much I only "liked"(?) the questline the first time because it was something new and different for once, a bit of new lore exploration, and interesting just because of that, but not actually something I'd enjoy in itself. Maybe like going to a match of some sport one isn't familiar with that much, just because one gets the opportunity to see it (got free tickets, e.g.), to see it once and learn about it, and as a learning experience, it's interesting to see it once, but in the end, it's not that interesting or exciting so one would want to watch it again within the next decade, let alone regularly.I think we're meant to take his feelings about the Worm Cult and Mannimarco at face value, but that's hard to do once you've seen the flashbacks in the Traitor's Vault.
It being more than just 100% hatred would certainly be the more interesting option for a story. That's exactly the ambiguity I'd like to see in a narration for adults, and not a stereotyped and very clear siding of "the good guys" and "the bad guys". Especially considering the depth of TES lore that already exists in the background, the clichéd stories always feel like wasted potential, which is sad. Because so much more would be possible. Think about the things at play between pre-Tribunal Almalexia, Sil and Vivec, Nerevar and Voryn Dagoth. That's so much more interesting than "evil guy does evil things for evil's sake and the good heroes will stop him".It would be a nice change, and an interesting exploration. Vanny's a complex character and he deserves more complex storylines than he's been given. Or I should say, he should have more interesting things to say to us than he usually does. His general bombastic air can be amusing, but it is one-note.
Same for Mannimarco. So much potential to show both of them beyond a one-note stereotype. That's the thing that makes characters interesting: If there's more to them than just a clearly defined role for some self-contained story. It's funny actually; the news article I linked emphasizes how important Mannimarco is as a character for TES as a whole, and how he appears over the centuries, in different TES games - you'd think if he's so important, the players would learn more about him as a person, about his background, than just "yeah, that's the evil guy"? We got a glimpse on more on Artaeum, but at that point, it somehow stopped. I mean, yes, he didn't return anywhere since then, but now that he does, I would have been interested to see some more background lore to him.Maybe he was getting really impatient with how long it was taking to paint his portrait. That throne can't be all that comfortable.
Or he's probably been told that he looks too friendly most of the time.Or probably he considers everyone in every world and plane beneath him, and so that's just how he looks: resting stink-eye face.
99% of people he's been in contact with in the last few centuries were his idiot cultists, so that's not an unexpected assumption.Lol...well, the path to ultimate power is a long one, and apparently there are a few setbacks along the way. In Oblivion, is he considered to be at the top of his game, or has he fallen somewhat from where he had been, power and influence wise?
In Oblivion, he lives in a cave and can't even afford shoes anymore.mdjessup4906 wrote: »I think those quests were really cute and engaging, and had more effort put into them than the whole of the Gold Road mq, but they didn't really feel like TES. Maybe not cynical or depreaciatingly self-aware enough lol
Well-written, but cute, friendly and calm somehow. Which the world outside of the Scholarium usually is not.Isn't Daggerfall Mannimarco purely lich?
Well, all we see is some glowy-eyed figure beneath a hooded robe. What's beneath? I don't know. Didn't try to undress him. It might have been interesting (For science!), but I think wrestling down the friendly necromancer next door and tearing down his 1980's fantasy illustration cultist robe to reveal his true form might be a little inappropriate. And embarrassing, in case he turns out not to be a lich. And in any case, he'd probably not be willing to give you any quests anymore after that.I wonder if he prefers that state to having a body.
Nah, in Oblivion he has a normal body again, and then there's that lore part about him having interest in the Queen's firstborn son (most probably for bodyswap reasons) in Daggerfall.Makes me wonder how he lost his Wormblood body and if we get to see any of that lich transformation in ESO.
Who knows, maybe his Daggerfall body indeed is Wormblood's. Wormblood is said to have glowing eyes (even if I can't remember seing any of that in ESO) and there are rumours about him possibly being a lich (although of course that doesn't say much, since lichs can exist in all states of decay, including the non-decayed alive looking form). I mean, we don't see much of Wormblood with him wearing his mask and all that. And we never saw much of Daggerfall Mannimarco beneath his robe either. The glowing eyes could be a link that maybe Wormblood's form is indeed the ESO interpretation of what we saw in Daggerfall with those very incomplex graphics back then.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0
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