ZOS maybe reconsider your direction

AzuraFan · June 16

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

...especially if the new season thing does not sell well.

Obviously only ZOS has the sales numbers, but Solstice seems pretty empty to me population-wise. Every other time a chapter was released, there were a lot of people at WBs, inside delves, near quest givers, etc. for at least a few weeks after release.

I was in one of the Solstice delves for the first time today. Took my time, did the entire thing, and saw one other player. ONE. On a weekend. Contrast that to delves in Wrothgar and Apocrypha. I was camping the bosses for leads, and saw many more players inside. As far as WBs go, people are already having to ask for help in chat ("have quest to share"). There's usually at least a few players at a WB, but nothing like times past when there were so many that you might not get loot if you weren't in the top 12 dmg dealers.

I noticed a similar thing when Gold Road released, but Solstice is worse. Unless they're spinning up a lot of instances, I don't think the content pass has sold all that well.

I view it a little differently. This patch is kind of something that we haven't seen in quite some time. Think about it, when was the last time we had a combat shake up this large? Its been a while.

Normally, new combat skill lines and classes are paywalled by the new content. Subclassing is base game like scribing will be. We don't even have mythics in the base game.

Subclassing to base game is what is shinning this update and thats were the focus is. Its arguable bigger than Solstice, and Solstice can be done anytime, and Subclassing is free.

Subclassing is needed for PVE and PVP end game. Solstice isn't.

If zos had pay walled Subclassing then I think you could claim the game was going to suffer extensively, but they had the foresight to not go that route. So give them some credit.

That said, Solstice is light on Content. But given the turmoil in the entertainment industry in recent years that is to be expected. We still have fully voiced npcs and complete stories.

My post wasn't about the state of the game, but merely to say that I don't think the content pass sold well, based on what I've seen when in Solstice. But sure, part of that could be that subclassing is free, so there's no need to buy the content pass to get it.

As for the light content, if the price tag matched better to what's there, I think there would be less complaints. But it's overpriced, especially for ESO+ subscribers. If it was reasonably priced, maybe more people would have bought it already, rather than waiting for a steep discount. Turmoil in the industry isn't an excuse for overpricing an offering.

Pevey · June 16

I'm pretty cynical right now about the state of ESO combat and the competence of the combat team, but I'm not quite cynical enough (yet?) to believe they implemented subclassing only to avoid balancing combat. (Although I think they believe there was nothing wrong with how the classes were balanced, which is perhaps worse.)

They were looking for a new hire for the combat team for a while and asking potentials for ideas on how they would shake things up. I was hopeful for a while that we would get something fun to liven things up a bit. They seemed open to trying some new things to combat how stale things are starting to feel. But I think they made a huge mistake in the option they ultimately chose (subclassing). And I think time will bear this out beyond any doubt.

Gaebriel0410 · June 16

Well for what it''s'worth I haven't bought the new expansion-chapter-season yet either, but not because of any complicated reason or perceived intent, it's more logistics and common sense for me.

As I am having great fun with the subclassing and updating the setup and skills for all my characters, I like to take my time with that. For me this is a huuuuge amazing new thing, to finally be able to go full creative in regards to making them fit their original concepts or archetypes. And the freedom in building characters was one of the things that drew me to ESO initially, because it is so radically different to the average MMO.

Surely I will get the new release in the near future, but it felt like it would've been a waste to do so right away, as I knew that I wouldn't step foot in there anyway, until I had my character tinkering fun. Usually when new things come out I play the story first, but not when they drop a feature like this on me.

DenverRalphy · June 16

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Why should anyone trust ZOS with a new MMO when things are going the way they are with ESO?

Gamers have selective memory. They'll always insist the newest game release will be the next big thing, despite all evidence to the contrary. Heck, it doesn't even have to be a new game release. It can be a remaster. Case in point, the recent Bethesda title that recently dropped a remaster is absolutely saturated with bugs, and quite horribly so. Most of those bugs were present in the orginal! Yet it sold like crazy, reviewers gave it perfect scores, and even praised the bugs as "part of the charm".

ZOS could drop any new MMO tomorrow, and it would get scooped up by the masses.

No, if that were true ESO would have been "scooped up by the masses". The only thing that has kept ESO going is its tie to the Elder Scrolls name and universe. Literally many if not most players came because of nostalgia from Morrowind, Skyrim or Oblivion. Without "Elder Scrolls" attached to this game, it would have been a miserable failure and shut down years ago.

ESO was "scooped up by the masses" when it first released over a decade ago when it releasaed. Precisely for the reasons you stated it's still hanging on today. And Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim (though Skyrim to a lesser extent) all being riddled with bugs.

Cazador · June 16

So the examples provided for why people are unhappy with the direction include
1. A thread that the author of this one wrote
2. A poll based on a false premise
3. A thread made to lament the state of the game last year when there was basically nothing released
4. a thread that the author of made to say they agreed with a different thread

Look, I'm not going to say that there is no argument that the game is going in a bad or good direction because i have opinions in both directions but you should probably find better examples.

RealLoveBVB · June 16

Cazador wrote: »

So the examples provided for why people are unhappy with the direction include
1. A thread that the author of this one wrote
2. A poll based on a false premise
3. A thread made to lament the state of the game last year when there was basically nothing released
4. a thread that the author of made to say they agreed with a different thread

Look, I'm not going to say that there is no argument that the game is going in a bad or good direction because i have opinions in both directions but you should probably find better examples.

Hu? Why do we need to search for examples, if we have our own opinion already?
We don't dislike the direction because of some threads in the forums, but because of our own experience in-game.

The game turned into a unbalanced singleplayer lasershow. I don't like this direction and I don't need any examples in the forums to prove that.

SilverBride · June 16

I noticed last year that the game was moving in a different direction. This year it is even more pronounced. I recently posted a thread on the same topic because I feel that the direction the game is going will drive a lot of players away.

I didn't buy the new content because it's not worth the cost to me. I feel like an outlier now rather than an active part of the playerbase because I don't scribe or subclass.

I feel alienated with what is happening to this game and I also hope they reconsider their direction.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/677609/i-want-my-eso-back/p1

reazea · June 16

DenverRalphy wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Why should anyone trust ZOS with a new MMO when things are going the way they are with ESO?

Gamers have selective memory. They'll always insist the newest game release will be the next big thing, despite all evidence to the contrary. Heck, it doesn't even have to be a new game release. It can be a remaster. Case in point, the recent Bethesda title that recently dropped a remaster is absolutely saturated with bugs, and quite horribly so. Most of those bugs were present in the orginal! Yet it sold like crazy, reviewers gave it perfect scores, and even praised the bugs as "part of the charm".

ZOS could drop any new MMO tomorrow, and it would get scooped up by the masses.

Not if those masses have spent a decade playing ESO and dealing with their customer service.

Pixiepumpkin · June 16

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Why should anyone trust ZOS with a new MMO when things are going the way they are with ESO?

Gamers have selective memory. They'll always insist the newest game release will be the next big thing, despite all evidence to the contrary. Heck, it doesn't even have to be a new game release. It can be a remaster. Case in point, the recent Bethesda title that recently dropped a remaster is absolutely saturated with bugs, and quite horribly so. Most of those bugs were present in the orginal! Yet it sold like crazy, reviewers gave it perfect scores, and even praised the bugs as "part of the charm".

ZOS could drop any new MMO tomorrow, and it would get scooped up by the masses.

No, if that were true ESO would have been "scooped up by the masses". The only thing that has kept ESO going is its tie to the Elder Scrolls name and universe. Literally many if not most players came because of nostalgia from Morrowind, Skyrim or Oblivion. Without "Elder Scrolls" attached to this game, it would have been a miserable failure and shut down years ago.

ESO was "scooped up by the masses" when it first released over a decade ago when it releasaed. Precisely for the reasons you stated it's still hanging on today. And Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim (though Skyrim to a lesser extent) all being riddled with bugs.

Really? Is that why they had to refomat the game with Tamriel 1? Because of the massive playerbase?

Ohh wait, no that is not what happened. ESO was a failure at launch, this is well established. Any game scooped up by the masses is not going to fail. So no, ESO was not "scooped up by the masses".

wolfie1.0. · June 16

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Good lord. Guys, ZOS has no reason to "stop caring about" anything about the game, and they're certainly not rolling out a major new system which will require a significant effort in monitoring and balancing because they wanted to do it for themselves. That's a very silly thing to believe. I also have issues with some of the things ZOS has done with the game but come on, let's take a minute to think about this before we create polls (and reinforce arguments with those polls) that make us look like fussy children.

Maybe not ZOS, but I can see Microsoft turning off the money tap if they see ESO as a rapidly depreciating asset. The cancellation of the US events, the recycled assets in the new zone and the reduced content all scream 'budget cuts' and 'skeleton crew' while the increased price tag seems like a cynical attempt squeeze the last drops of milk from the few remaining players.

There is another way of looking at this (though I'm no fan of the new pricing structure), which is that inflation, including in salaries, has soared over the last few years and raising prices may be one way to keep ESO consistently staffed. That may or may not be the case, but it seems unlikely that ZOS costs have remained miraculously static while in essentially every other industry across the world inflation has had a huge impact.

I'm not sure it's simply inflation: do you think as many people have worked on Solstice as did on Necrom? When you think about the completely new designs of the latter plus the addition of an entirely new class, I'd say no. Add to that the split content with the delayed second half and it feels like a much smaller team is behind this.
I don't think ESO is being consistently staffed. If anything, the latest update feels like a clear example of Shrinkflation.

To be fair here. Zos has not increased eso+ subscriptions, crown packs, etc.

Chapters could be argued. But those costs habnt gone up all that much.

Meanwhile costs have gone up, there have been several major strikes, one global pandemic, and lots of economic factors during this time.

Pixiepumpkin · June 16

reazea wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Why should anyone trust ZOS with a new MMO when things are going the way they are with ESO?

Gamers have selective memory. They'll always insist the newest game release will be the next big thing, despite all evidence to the contrary. Heck, it doesn't even have to be a new game release. It can be a remaster. Case in point, the recent Bethesda title that recently dropped a remaster is absolutely saturated with bugs, and quite horribly so. Most of those bugs were present in the orginal! Yet it sold like crazy, reviewers gave it perfect scores, and even praised the bugs as "part of the charm".

ZOS could drop any new MMO tomorrow, and it would get scooped up by the masses.

Not if those masses have spent a decade playing ESO and dealing with their customer service.

Exactly this. I won't touch another product by bethesda or zenimax going forward and it's solely based on how I have been treated here. They are not the only game company in town. I intend to get my moneys worth out of ESO and when I find something else that appeals to me more, well I'll be spending my time and money there.

reazea · June 16

Cazador wrote: »

So the examples provided for why people are unhappy with the direction include
1. A thread that the author of this one wrote
2. A poll based on a false premise
3. A thread made to lament the state of the game last year when there was basically nothing released
4. a thread that the author of made to say they agreed with a different thread

Look, I'm not going to say that there is no argument that the game is going in a bad or good direction because i have opinions in both directions but you should probably find better examples.

Your post is a gross misrepresentation of what's taking place in this thread and what the OP was pointing out with their post.

Pixiepumpkin · June 16

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Good lord. Guys, ZOS has no reason to "stop caring about" anything about the game, and they're certainly not rolling out a major new system which will require a significant effort in monitoring and balancing because they wanted to do it for themselves. That's a very silly thing to believe. I also have issues with some of the things ZOS has done with the game but come on, let's take a minute to think about this before we create polls (and reinforce arguments with those polls) that make us look like fussy children.

Maybe not ZOS, but I can see Microsoft turning off the money tap if they see ESO as a rapidly depreciating asset. The cancellation of the US events, the recycled assets in the new zone and the reduced content all scream 'budget cuts' and 'skeleton crew' while the increased price tag seems like a cynical attempt squeeze the last drops of milk from the few remaining players.

There is another way of looking at this (though I'm no fan of the new pricing structure), which is that inflation, including in salaries, has soared over the last few years and raising prices may be one way to keep ESO consistently staffed. That may or may not be the case, but it seems unlikely that ZOS costs have remained miraculously static while in essentially every other industry across the world inflation has had a huge impact.

I'm not sure it's simply inflation: do you think as many people have worked on Solstice as did on Necrom? When you think about the completely new designs of the latter plus the addition of an entirely new class, I'd say no. Add to that the split content with the delayed second half and it feels like a much smaller team is behind this.
I don't think ESO is being consistently staffed. If anything, the latest update feels like a clear example of Shrinkflation.

To be fair here. Zos has not increased eso+ subscriptions, crown packs, etc.

Chapters could be argued. But those costs habnt gone up all that much.

Meanwhile costs have gone up, there have been several major strikes, one global pandemic, and lots of economic factors during this time.

Neither has wow and they increased the size of their dev team and allowed players to purchase game time with in game gold (although that requires someone to buy a game token that essentially works as a "sub" for someone else) and are still making money hand over fist.

Although crowns have not gone up, the items in crown crates have. Items types that were once 100 purple gems are now 400. This means more packs have to be opened to accumulate more purple gems which means more crowns are sold.

ESO is not losing money, not by a landslide. They average 17 million a month. Which is WELL beyond what it costs to run the game.

Lastly, if they were in such dire straights for money, they could relocate the work to Texas, which has a lower cost of living and a stronger work atmosphere.

fizzybeef · June 16

Cazador wrote: »

So the examples provided for why people are unhappy with the direction include
1. A thread that the author of this one wrote
2. A poll based on a false premise
3. A thread made to lament the state of the game last year when there was basically nothing released
4. a thread that the author of made to say they agreed with a different thread

Look, I'm not going to say that there is no argument that the game is going in a bad or good direction because i have opinions in both directions but you should probably find better examples.

I was giving examples, there are more to find easily if you wanna click through the paiges in the forum.
The mood massively changed - not to the positive side.
For valid reasons.

disky · June 16

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Good lord. Guys, ZOS has no reason to "stop caring about" anything about the game, and they're certainly not rolling out a major new system which will require a significant effort in monitoring and balancing because they wanted to do it for themselves. That's a very silly thing to believe. I also have issues with some of the things ZOS has done with the game but come on, let's take a minute to think about this before we create polls (and reinforce arguments with those polls) that make us look like fussy children.

Maybe not ZOS, but I can see Microsoft turning off the money tap if they see ESO as a rapidly depreciating asset. The cancellation of the US events, the recycled assets in the new zone and the reduced content all scream 'budget cuts' and 'skeleton crew' while the increased price tag seems like a cynical attempt squeeze the last drops of milk from the few remaining players.

There is another way of looking at this (though I'm no fan of the new pricing structure), which is that inflation, including in salaries, has soared over the last few years and raising prices may be one way to keep ESO consistently staffed. That may or may not be the case, but it seems unlikely that ZOS costs have remained miraculously static while in essentially every other industry across the world inflation has had a huge impact.

I'm not sure it's simply inflation: do you think as many people have worked on Solstice as did on Necrom? When you think about the completely new designs of the latter plus the addition of an entirely new class, I'd say no. Add to that the split content with the delayed second half and it feels like a much smaller team is behind this.
I don't think ESO is being consistently staffed. If anything, the latest update feels like a clear example of Shrinkflation.

There's a whole lot of feeling here, not a lot of knowing. Again, a leading poll which with options that are written in such a way as to support your negative opinion of things isn't exactly concrete evidence and it's clearly in bad faith.

Ph1p · June 16

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Why should anyone trust ZOS with a new MMO when things are going the way they are with ESO?

Gamers have selective memory. They'll always insist the newest game release will be the next big thing, despite all evidence to the contrary. Heck, it doesn't even have to be a new game release. It can be a remaster. Case in point, the recent Bethesda title that recently dropped a remaster is absolutely saturated with bugs, and quite horribly so. Most of those bugs were present in the orginal! Yet it sold like crazy, reviewers gave it perfect scores, and even praised the bugs as "part of the charm".

ZOS could drop any new MMO tomorrow, and it would get scooped up by the masses.

No, if that were true ESO would have been "scooped up by the masses". The only thing that has kept ESO going is its tie to the Elder Scrolls name and universe. Literally many if not most players came because of nostalgia from Morrowind, Skyrim or Oblivion. Without "Elder Scrolls" attached to this game, it would have been a miserable failure and shut down years ago.

ESO was "scooped up by the masses" when it first released over a decade ago when it releasaed. Precisely for the reasons you stated it's still hanging on today. And Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim (though Skyrim to a lesser extent) all being riddled with bugs.

What "masses" are you talking about? ESO launched in 2014 to pretty average reviews and ~2'000 average players on Steam in its first month, which quickly dropped to <1'000 for most of its first few quarters. It got a bump back to ~2'000 once ZOS got rid of the mandatory subscription as part of Tamriel Unlimited in 2015. For a live-service game based on such prime IP, that's fairly meh.

And that was in an environment with fewer MMO alternatives. You could probably argue ESO started to take off more than 2 years after release, when One Tamriel made it a decent game and basically tripled its Steam player numbers in one month. The subsequent Morrowind and Summerset chapters brought player numbers above the 10k threshold, which is roughly where we are at right now after dropping from the COVID highs in 2020/21. Basically, listening to feedback and adapting accordingly is what saved the game and made it successful.

Bubosh · June 16

i think 2014 majority of players played eso via its own launcher since it wasnt even out back then on steam on its real release, it took them few months 2014 to get it launched on steam too and therefor the number of steam ofc is kinda irrelevant/low for 2014 just my opinion

. @Ph1p

DenverRalphy · June 16

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Why should anyone trust ZOS with a new MMO when things are going the way they are with ESO?

Gamers have selective memory. They'll always insist the newest game release will be the next big thing, despite all evidence to the contrary. Heck, it doesn't even have to be a new game release. It can be a remaster. Case in point, the recent Bethesda title that recently dropped a remaster is absolutely saturated with bugs, and quite horribly so. Most of those bugs were present in the orginal! Yet it sold like crazy, reviewers gave it perfect scores, and even praised the bugs as "part of the charm".

ZOS could drop any new MMO tomorrow, and it would get scooped up by the masses.

No, if that were true ESO would have been "scooped up by the masses". The only thing that has kept ESO going is its tie to the Elder Scrolls name and universe. Literally many if not most players came because of nostalgia from Morrowind, Skyrim or Oblivion. Without "Elder Scrolls" attached to this game, it would have been a miserable failure and shut down years ago.

ESO was "scooped up by the masses" when it first released over a decade ago when it releasaed. Precisely for the reasons you stated it's still hanging on today. And Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim (though Skyrim to a lesser extent) all being riddled with bugs.

Really? Is that why they had to refomat the game with Tamriel 1? Because of the massive playerbase?

Ohh wait, no that is not what happened. ESO was a failure at launch, this is well established. Any game scooped up by the masses is not going to fail. So no, ESO was not "scooped up by the masses".

At launch, there was a huge early adoption. The problem is that it suffered a significant hit on player retention. Even still, it was the MMO to install and play when it released. Yes it took One Tamriel and Unlimited to bring it back. But that doesn't take away from the initial grab.

Pixiepumpkin · June 16

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Why should anyone trust ZOS with a new MMO when things are going the way they are with ESO?

Gamers have selective memory. They'll always insist the newest game release will be the next big thing, despite all evidence to the contrary. Heck, it doesn't even have to be a new game release. It can be a remaster. Case in point, the recent Bethesda title that recently dropped a remaster is absolutely saturated with bugs, and quite horribly so. Most of those bugs were present in the orginal! Yet it sold like crazy, reviewers gave it perfect scores, and even praised the bugs as "part of the charm".

ZOS could drop any new MMO tomorrow, and it would get scooped up by the masses.

No, if that were true ESO would have been "scooped up by the masses". The only thing that has kept ESO going is its tie to the Elder Scrolls name and universe. Literally many if not most players came because of nostalgia from Morrowind, Skyrim or Oblivion. Without "Elder Scrolls" attached to this game, it would have been a miserable failure and shut down years ago.

ESO was "scooped up by the masses" when it first released over a decade ago when it releasaed. Precisely for the reasons you stated it's still hanging on today. And Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim (though Skyrim to a lesser extent) all being riddled with bugs.

Really? Is that why they had to refomat the game with Tamriel 1? Because of the massive playerbase?

Ohh wait, no that is not what happened. ESO was a failure at launch, this is well established. Any game scooped up by the masses is not going to fail. So no, ESO was not "scooped up by the masses".

At launch, there was a huge early adoption. The problem is that it suffered a significant hit on player retention. Even still, it was the MMO to install and play when it released. Yes it took One Tamriel and Unlimited to bring it back. But that doesn't take away from the initial grab.

Failed at player retention because players did not like it. When we are discussing the idea of being "scooped up by the masses " and MMORPG's, retention is a MASSIVE part of that, in fact its the defining aspect of an MMORPG regarding popularity.

Ph1p · June 16

Bubosh wrote: »

i think 2014 majority of players played eso via its own launcher since it wasnt even out back then on steam on its real release, it took them few months 2014 to get it launched on steam too and therefor the number of steam ofc is kinda irrelevant/low for 2014 just my opinion . @Ph1p

Fair point and appreciate the clarification! ESO’s Steam launch was indeed 3 months after its initial release. Either way, I think the key isn’t in the total number, but in the obvious relative decline and low retention one can see in the Steam numbers. The same trend would have held for players on ESO’s own launcher.

Nostalgia may have pulled some people in but they didn’t stick around until ZOS made substantial improvements based on feedback and criticism. I just hope they still have the resources to continue in that direction.

ADarklore · June 16

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

I mean, you underlined an item in a poll with 63 votes. IMO, the forums haven't really been relevant for years and it seems players mainly come here to express feedback, presenting a skewed view of things.

I agree with OP , its only 63 votes but it´s representive

And yet, go over to the poll about how many play the game solo... it's funny how 'representive' seems to only apply if you agree with it. Considering roughly 80% of those responding to the poll said they play mostly or exclusively solo... and it seems to me most of the complaints about subclassing are coming from endgame or PvP players.

Save you the trouble... https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/678081/how-often-do-you-play-solo/p1

215 people said they play exclusively solo.

Adaarye · June 16

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Although crowns have not gone up, the items in crown crates have. Items types that were once 100 purple gems are now 400. This means more packs have to be opened to accumulate more purple gems which means more crowns are sold.

I purchased 2 of the 25 packs since they were on sale.

Who decided to put craftable furniture into the packs?

Why?

That they are doing this is insulting to me.

fizzybeef · June 17

ADarklore wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

I mean, you underlined an item in a poll with 63 votes. IMO, the forums haven't really been relevant for years and it seems players mainly come here to express feedback, presenting a skewed view of things.

I agree with OP , its only 63 votes but it´s representive

And yet, go over to the poll about how many play the game solo... it's funny how 'representive' seems to only apply if you agree with it. Considering roughly 80% of those responding to the poll said they play mostly or exclusively solo... and it seems to me most of the complaints about subclassing are coming from endgame or PvP players.

Save you the trouble... https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/678081/how-often-do-you-play-solo/p1

215 people said they play exclusively solo.

215 people aka 46% so the MINORITY lol.
What are we speaking about here 😅

Gabriel_H · June 17

The inherent problem with forum polls is that most people who visit the forum come to complain. Given the number of posts vs the estimated number of players, that isn't a large chunk of the player base, and so should not be used as a foundation for an argument.

Gabriel_H · June 17

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

No, if that were true ESO would have been "scooped up by the masses". The only thing that has kept ESO going is its tie to the Elder Scrolls name and universe. Literally many if not most players came because of nostalgia from Morrowind, Skyrim or Oblivion. Without "Elder Scrolls" attached to this game, it would have been a miserable failure and shut down years ago.

I'm a HUGE TES fan. I avoided ESO for 6 years, because the original iterations of the game did not have the look or freedom of a TES game.

amiiegee · June 17

Gabriel_H wrote: »

The inherent problem with forum polls is that most people who visit the forum come to complain. Given the number of posts vs the estimated number of players, that isn't a large chunk of the player base, and so should not be used as a foundation for an argument.

exactly this!

I’m honestly relieved that the game developers tend to stay focused on their own vision rather than getting too involved in the forums—as we’ve seen again with the PTS. That likely means they’re also filtering out some of the more impractical or contradictory suggestions and polls.

I’ve seen people suggest turning PvE zones into PvP areas, making Cyrodiil a PvE zone, turning Crushing Shock into a gap closer, punishing players for not waiting so others can read books or dialogues in dungeons, removing pvp entirely of the game because 4v4v4 bg’s are dead or making overland content even easier than it already is.

And now there’s this solo player poll.

Anyone who regularly browses the forum can see it’s heavily dominated by casual players. And that’s perfectly fine—everyone enjoys the game differently.

But it does mean that some of these polls don’t really reflect the broader player base. It’s a bit like going to a vegan barbecue and asking who wants steak and sausages—the setting kind of pre-determines the outcome.

@ADarklore, in another thread, you seemed to suggest that players should keep spending money in the Crown Store to support ZOS, even if they’re unhappy with the direction the game is taking. While I respect your opinion, I think it’s fair for players to expect a game they enjoy before making that kind of investment.

You often bring up the solo player topic and try to build support for it, which is your right. But there’s a noticeable pattern: you get pushback, disappear from the conversation, and then bring it up again in a different thread. Maybe at some point, it’s worth accepting that while the game can absolutely be played solo, it’s still an MMO at its core—and many players are here for the multiplayer experience.

moderatelyfatman · June 17

L33T_BEANS wrote: »

Yeah, subclassing killed the game for me.

I don't even hate subclassing, Guild Wars 2 does it great, every class gets a unique skill line they can slot to fundamentally alter their classes play-style. And that's the key, they're unique..

That's because Guild Wars 2 has real subclassing. The skill lines gained by each subclass and unique to the parent class and no other. This allows the devs at ArenaNet to maintain enough control on builds to keep a decent amount of balance.

What ESO has done is multi-classing where every class now has access to every other classes skills. Good luck on ever balancing that mess!

Asikoo · June 17

I used to be a very active player, online for more than 12 hours a day, and that’s been the case for as long as I can remember. But right now, I can barely bring myself to play. I just log in, do my Endeavors, and log out. And to be honest, even that feels like a struggle.

I truly love the Elder Scrolls Online universe... but it just isn't fun anymore. Builds are parsing close to 200k why? ESO no longer feels like a game. It's turned into a DPS race and nothing else.

MISTFORMBZZZ · June 17

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

L33T_BEANS wrote: »

Yeah, subclassing killed the game for me.

I don't even hate subclassing, Guild Wars 2 does it great, every class gets a unique skill line they can slot to fundamentally alter their classes play-style. And that's the key, they're unique..

Good luck on ever balancing that mess!

I mean as the one poll stated, a lot of people doubt they are even trying at this point.

Rungar · June 17

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Why should anyone trust ZOS with a new MMO when things are going the way they are with ESO?

Gamers have selective memory. They'll always insist the newest game release will be the next big thing, despite all evidence to the contrary. Heck, it doesn't even have to be a new game release. It can be a remaster. Case in point, the recent Bethesda title that recently dropped a remaster is absolutely saturated with bugs, and quite horribly so. Most of those bugs were present in the orginal! Yet it sold like crazy, reviewers gave it perfect scores, and even praised the bugs as "part of the charm".

ZOS could drop any new MMO tomorrow, and it would get scooped up by the masses.

No, if that were true ESO would have been "scooped up by the masses". The only thing that has kept ESO going is its tie to the Elder Scrolls name and universe. Literally many if not most players came because of nostalgia from Morrowind, Skyrim or Oblivion. Without "Elder Scrolls" attached to this game, it would have been a miserable failure and shut down years ago.

ESO was "scooped up by the masses" when it first released over a decade ago when it releasaed. Precisely for the reasons you stated it's still hanging on today. And Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim (though Skyrim to a lesser extent) all being riddled with bugs.

Really? Is that why they had to refomat the game with Tamriel 1? Because of the massive playerbase?

Ohh wait, no that is not what happened. ESO was a failure at launch, this is well established. Any game scooped up by the masses is not going to fail. So no, ESO was not "scooped up by the masses".

ill give zos credit where its due. They fought tooth and nail to keep eso alive and it worked because they were innovative and adaptive in their approach. This is something i feel they have forgotten.