ZOS maybe reconsider your direction

fizzybeef · June 15

Looking through a lot of forum threads and ingame aswell i notice how the people are just unhappy with the direction this game is going to.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/676177/please-do-not-bring-the-subclassing-live/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/679083/when-people-get-proven-theyre-correct/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/666306/population-shrinking-please-do-something/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/679050/who-do-you-think-subclassing-was-meant-for/p1

A lot of descisions come across as not propper planned and against the players will.

Biggest example is subclassing. Does this look, like the people have trust in you, when they think you only did subsclassing so you dont need to focus on balance anymore ?

It feels like because of the new MMO youre working on youre putting ESO on maintenance mode / slowly abandon the ship. The current mood in the forum and in a lot of the community is negative and people are loosing trust in your descisions.

https://www.zenimaxonline.com/joinus

Pls turn arround and dont let ESO sink yet

AngryPenguin · June 15

Why should anyone trust ZOS with a new MMO when things are going the way they are with ESO?

In business once the customer trust is gone it's, pardon the pun, it's game over.

This is why it's so important ZOS focuses on fixing ESO before moving onto the next MMO.

ankeor · June 15

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Why should anyone trust ZOS with a new MMO when things are going the way they are with ESO?

In business once the customer trust is gone it's, pardon the pun, it's game over.

This is why it's so important ZOS focuses on fixing ESO before moving onto the next MMO.

Remember Dumb and Dumber rushed Game of Thrones ending because they were planing on working on a new Star Wars project? Great times!..
(They never got to work on it because they ruined their reputation.)

disky · June 15

Good lord. Guys, ZOS has no reason to "stop caring about" anything about the game, and they're certainly not rolling out a major new system which will require a significant effort in monitoring and balancing because they wanted to do it for themselves. That's a very silly thing to believe. I also have issues with some of the things ZOS has done with the game but come on, let's take a minute to think about this before we create polls (and reinforce arguments with those polls) that make us look like fussy children.

kargen27 · June 15

Four threads with one just being a link to an old one instead of necroing it. And in a couple of those threads there is as much support for the changes as there is opposition. We also don't have an alternative universe to compare to. People mention they are playing less or haven't played at all in a while. Others mention they only come back for the new content. Some are saying the new content is why they are leaving.
So would more people stay or go if there was nothing new other than a zone and story introduced? How do the numbers compare between those who decided to play again because of the new content and those that are leaving because of it?

And the subclassing poll is biased beyond any hope of providing any kind of feedback about subclassing. Even if the poll wasn't extremely biased it is such a small sample size it would still be useless.

To keep the game population healthy ZoS needs to continue to provide a diverse amount of new content. Many of us have been here for more than a decade. New things to do is what keeps some of us playing. We've been told this is a transition year so I say give it a chance and see what the game transforms into.

katanagirl1 · June 16

We’ll have to see how things go. They essentially have given all players who are not housing enthusiasts a solid reason to completely drop the eso plus subscription, and that could make a substantial dip in their earnings, especially if the new season thing does not sell well. I don’t think the last chapter did well on PS, it was on sale for dirt cheap not long after launch and stayed on sale for a long time.

Basically, if a lot of people vote with their wallets we might see some changes, if not then business as usual.

Adaarye · June 16

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Why should anyone trust ZOS with a new MMO when things are going the way they are with ESO?

In business once the customer trust is gone it's, pardon the pun, it's game over.

This is why it's so important ZOS focuses on fixing ESO before moving onto the next MMO.

Not this girl. They "got" me and my husband with Starfield which was a rude awakening.

That said, Oblivion Remastered is lovely.

Gadamlub14_ESO · June 16

katanagirl1 wrote: »

We’ll have to see how things go. They essentially have given all players who are not housing enthusiasts a solid reason to completely drop the eso plus subscription, and that could make a substantial dip in their earnings, especially if the new season thing does not sell well. I don’t think the last chapter did well on PS, it was on sale for dirt cheap not long after launch and stayed on sale for a long time.

Basically, if a lot of people vote with their wallets we might see some changes, if not then business as usual.

remember those limited run collectors statues they release every chapter?

The ithellia one which reportedly has only 3300 of them made is still for sale today. at 100$ off out of 175$ base cost.

So yeah that might be a good sign of how popular the last chapter really was after the hermeas mora statue reportedly sold out in less than 24 hours.

katanagirl1 · June 16

Gadamlub14_ESO wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

We’ll have to see how things go. They essentially have given all players who are not housing enthusiasts a solid reason to completely drop the eso plus subscription, and that could make a substantial dip in their earnings, especially if the new season thing does not sell well. I don’t think the last chapter did well on PS, it was on sale for dirt cheap not long after launch and stayed on sale for a long time.

Basically, if a lot of people vote with their wallets we might see some changes, if not then business as usual.

remember those limited run collectors statues they release every chapter?

The ithellia one which reportedly has only 3300 of them made is still for sale today. at 100$ off out of 175$ base cost.

So yeah that might be a good sign of how popular the last chapter really was after the hermeas mora statue reportedly sold out in less than 24 hours.

Interesting. They did change the model for Ithelia in the game after that though, right? She looked like Brittney Spears in the statue photo I saw. It could be people just didn’t like the first look, though no one really liked how she looked in game. Who knows.

DenverRalphy · June 16

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Why should anyone trust ZOS with a new MMO when things are going the way they are with ESO?

Gamers have selective memory. They'll always insist the newest game release will be the next big thing, despite all evidence to the contrary. Heck, it doesn't even have to be a new game release. It can be a remaster. Case in point, the recent Bethesda title that recently dropped a remaster is absolutely saturated with bugs, and quite horribly so. Most of those bugs were present in the orginal! Yet it sold like crazy, reviewers gave it perfect scores, and even praised the bugs as "part of the charm".

ZOS could drop any new MMO tomorrow, and it would get scooped up by the masses.

BretonMage · June 16

kargen27 wrote: »

Four threads with one just being a link to an old one instead of necroing it.

There are a good many more older threads protesting subclassing, both here and on Reddit. It's been quieter recently because everyone's said their piece.

To keep the game population healthy ZoS needs to continue to provide a diverse amount of new content. Many of us have been here for more than a decade. New things to do is what keeps some of us playing. We've been told this is a transition year so I say give it a chance and see what the game transforms into.

Quality content. They need to provide quality content, or the game will die a slow, drawn out death. People may return to try out the novel things, but if it's not fun, they probably won't stick around.

I mean, no one's not giving it a chance. I don't think people have deleted their accounts over this (yet). But I myself won't be playing much unless they balance subclassing.

AzuraFan · June 16

katanagirl1 wrote: »

...especially if the new season thing does not sell well.

Obviously only ZOS has the sales numbers, but Solstice seems pretty empty to me population-wise. Every other time a chapter was released, there were a lot of people at WBs, inside delves, near quest givers, etc. for at least a few weeks after release.

I was in one of the Solstice delves for the first time today. Took my time, did the entire thing, and saw one other player. ONE. On a weekend. Contrast that to delves in Wrothgar and Apocrypha. I was camping the bosses for leads, and saw many more players inside. As far as WBs go, people are already having to ask for help in chat ("have quest to share"). There's usually at least a few players at a WB, but nothing like times past when there were so many that you might not get loot if you weren't in the top 12 dmg dealers.

I noticed a similar thing when Gold Road released, but Solstice is worse. Unless they're spinning up a lot of instances, I don't think the content pass has sold all that well.

wolfie1.0. · June 16

AzuraFan wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

...especially if the new season thing does not sell well.

Obviously only ZOS has the sales numbers, but Solstice seems pretty empty to me population-wise. Every other time a chapter was released, there were a lot of people at WBs, inside delves, near quest givers, etc. for at least a few weeks after release.

I was in one of the Solstice delves for the first time today. Took my time, did the entire thing, and saw one other player. ONE. On a weekend. Contrast that to delves in Wrothgar and Apocrypha. I was camping the bosses for leads, and saw many more players inside. As far as WBs go, people are already having to ask for help in chat ("have quest to share"). There's usually at least a few players at a WB, but nothing like times past when there were so many that you might not get loot if you weren't in the top 12 dmg dealers.

I noticed a similar thing when Gold Road released, but Solstice is worse. Unless they're spinning up a lot of instances, I don't think the content pass has sold all that well.

I view it a little differently. This patch is kind of something that we haven't seen in quite some time. Think about it, when was the last time we had a combat shake up this large? Its been a while.

Normally, new combat skill lines and classes are paywalled by the new content. Subclassing is base game like scribing will be. We don't even have mythics in the base game.

Subclassing to base game is what is shinning this update and thats were the focus is. Its arguable bigger than Solstice, and Solstice can be done anytime, and Subclassing is free.

Subclassing is needed for PVE and PVP end game. Solstice isn't.

If zos had pay walled Subclassing then I think you could claim the game was going to suffer extensively, but they had the foresight to not go that route. So give them some credit.

That said, Solstice is light on Content. But given the turmoil in the entertainment industry in recent years that is to be expected. We still have fully voiced npcs and complete stories.

MISTFORMBZZZ · June 16

fizzybeef wrote: »

Looking through a lot of forum threads and ingame aswell i notice how the people are just unhappy with the direction this game is going to.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/676177/please-do-not-bring-the-subclassing-live/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/679083/when-people-get-proven-theyre-correct/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/666306/population-shrinking-please-do-something/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/679050/who-do-you-think-subclassing-was-meant-for/p1

A lot of descisions come across as not propper planned and against the players will.

Biggest example is subclassing. Does this look, like the people have trust in you, when they think you only did subsclassing so you dont need to focus on balance anymore ?

It feels like because of the new MMO youre working on youre putting ESO on maintenance mode / slowly abandon the ship. The current mood in the forum and in a lot of the community is negative and people are loosing trust in your descisions.

https://www.zenimaxonline.com/joinus

Pls turn arround and dont let ESO sink yet

You forgot this :
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/669637/the-balance-in-pvp-is-abysmal#latest

Yes, the trust and faith in ZOS is really low atm.

Desiato · June 16

I mean, you underlined an item in a poll with 63 votes. IMO, the forums haven't really been relevant for years and it seems players mainly come here to express feedback, presenting a skewed view of things.

Probably the biggest audience in ESO has been Skyrim fans who played ESO as a single player game to get their TES fix.

Obviously ESO has entered a new phase this year and it looks like it was by design. We first got wind of this when they delivered the positioning to content creators late 2024 that ESO was definitely not going into maintenance mode!! Well, that's what a popular eso content creator said anyway. So they were obviously trying to get ahead of that perception. But why?

It was because we didn't get a new chapter this year. Instead, we got a partial chapter that heavily reuses existing art assets, indicating a much lower budget. Well, that's the first half anyway, we'll see if the second half is more impressive. The new trial is fun, but looks like something that was designed in 2014 or 2015. Subclassing is an impactful change, but it was probably much less expensive to implement than scribing, especially because the subclass quest is so basic.

And on top of that they charged us about the same for it!! Furthmore, the Oblivion Remaster was released, giving Chapter players something else to do.

So I think the plan this year was to spend less on developing the annual dlc knowing chapter story regulars would be inclined to buy Oblivion instead, and to charge about the same for the skeleton annual dlc knowing enthusiasts would buy it anyway.

So yeah, it's less active, but probably by design. They also increased the gap between the floor and the ceiling this update and have said they are exploring ways to make overland and story content more challenging. So it could be they're repositioning ESO as more of an MMO again. but probably just a touch.

Maybe they'll reallocate resources back to eso when they're done their new mmo, or maybe tes6 will be released in a couple of years followed by its own dlc making traditional eso story dlc as we're used to seeing it somewhat redundant.

MISTFORMBZZZ · June 16

Desiato wrote: »

I mean, you underlined an item in a poll with 63 votes. IMO, the forums haven't really been relevant for years and it seems players mainly come here to express feedback, presenting a skewed view of things.

I agree with OP , its only 63 votes but it´s representive

Desiato · June 16

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

I mean, you underlined an item in a poll with 63 votes. IMO, the forums haven't really been relevant for years and it seems players mainly come here to express feedback, presenting a skewed view of things.

I agree with OP , its only 63 votes but it´s representive

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but polling less than 200 players in the forums is pretty irrelevant in the big picture.

But it's not like I disagreed with the substance of the post. Yes, ESO is less active this year. Obviously something big changed. It's right in front of us and very easy to see that ESO has transitioned to a new phase. Whether it is permanent, only time will tell.

Gadamlub14_ESO · June 16

Desiato wrote: »

Subclassing is an impactful change, but it was probably much less expensive to implement than scribing, especially because the subclass quest is so basic.

i mean, its not even fair to call the subclassing introductory quest a quest. its about as much of a quest as the free inn room housing quests are quests. except for possible technical difficulties, the way they introduced subclassing was about as low effort as they could have done.

RealLoveBVB · June 16

You don't need to have internal selling datas to recognise, that this is currently the least sold DLC ever.
Just open your ears and eyes. The new zone is empty (that's what everyone is saying, as i didn't bought the DLC either ha), many players in forums claiming, they didn't bought it, I see in my friend list and guilds that many didn't bought it. I see players desperately looking for a group to play the new trial, as many raid groups don't bought the chapter and the group finder doesn't offer anything. I see players asking for help in guild chat to defeat a world boss, as they are alone there. When was that EVER the case?
The DLC is a big flop and everyone can see it.

We are complaining since April, when subclassing was first announced.

MISTFORMBZZZ · June 16

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

You don't need to have internal selling datas to recognise, that this is currently the least sold DLC ever.
Just open your ears and eyes. The new zone is empty (that's what everyone is saying, as i didn't bought the DLC either ha), many players in forums claiming, they didn't bought it, I see in my friend list and guilds that many didn't bought it. I see players desperately looking for a group to play the new trial, as many raid groups don't bought the chapter and the group finder doesn't offer anything. I see players asking for help in guild chat to defeat a world boss, as they are alone there. When was that EVER the case?
The DLC is a big flop and everyone can see it.

We are complaining since April, when subclassing was first announced.

Subclassing is a desaster wich should of been canceled, i seen many threads warning about it and stating concerns, but ignored.

SpaceElf · June 16

AzuraFan wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

...especially if the new season thing does not sell well.

Obviously only ZOS has the sales numbers, but Solstice seems pretty empty to me population-wise. Every other time a chapter was released, there were a lot of people at WBs, inside delves, near quest givers, etc. for at least a few weeks after release.

I was in one of the Solstice delves for the first time today. Took my time, did the entire thing, and saw one other player. ONE. On a weekend. Contrast that to delves in Wrothgar and Apocrypha. I was camping the bosses for leads, and saw many more players inside. As far as WBs go, people are already having to ask for help in chat ("have quest to share"). There's usually at least a few players at a WB, but nothing like times past when there were so many that you might not get loot if you weren't in the top 12 dmg dealers.

I noticed a similar thing when Gold Road released, but Solstice is worse. Unless they're spinning up a lot of instances, I don't think the content pass has sold all that well.

There are a lot of factors at play which could explain fewer people in Solstice, especially if we consider subclassing dropping for free at around the same time, as well as the 'new for ESO' concept of buying a 'Season' rather than a chapter. I know I am avoiding Solstice on my alts because they've not yet completed the MQ so I'm working on that to make the experience more meaningful (for me personally). I did the Solstice zone quest on PTS and it didn't take long anyway. So I'm dropping more time in base game to prepare for the newer area and explore subclassing more. I can't speak for everyone else but I do know a couple of people more or less doing the same.

moderatelyfatman · June 16

@fizzybeef
Thank you for my first non-academic citation!

moderatelyfatman · June 16

disky wrote: »

Good lord. Guys, ZOS has no reason to "stop caring about" anything about the game, and they're certainly not rolling out a major new system which will require a significant effort in monitoring and balancing because they wanted to do it for themselves. That's a very silly thing to believe. I also have issues with some of the things ZOS has done with the game but come on, let's take a minute to think about this before we create polls (and reinforce arguments with those polls) that make us look like fussy children.

Maybe not ZOS, but I can see Microsoft turning off the money tap if they see ESO as a rapidly depreciating asset. The cancellation of the US events, the recycled assets in the new zone and the reduced content all scream 'budget cuts' and 'skeleton crew' while the increased price tag seems like a cynical attempt squeeze the last drops of milk from the few remaining players.

Northwold · June 16

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Good lord. Guys, ZOS has no reason to "stop caring about" anything about the game, and they're certainly not rolling out a major new system which will require a significant effort in monitoring and balancing because they wanted to do it for themselves. That's a very silly thing to believe. I also have issues with some of the things ZOS has done with the game but come on, let's take a minute to think about this before we create polls (and reinforce arguments with those polls) that make us look like fussy children.

Maybe not ZOS, but I can see Microsoft turning off the money tap if they see ESO as a rapidly depreciating asset. The cancellation of the US events, the recycled assets in the new zone and the reduced content all scream 'budget cuts' and 'skeleton crew' while the increased price tag seems like a cynical attempt squeeze the last drops of milk from the few remaining players.

There is another way of looking at this (though I'm no fan of the new pricing structure), which is that inflation, including in salaries, has soared over the last few years and raising prices may be one way to keep ESO consistently staffed. That may or may not be the case, but it seems unlikely that ZOS costs have remained miraculously static while in essentially every other industry across the world inflation has had a huge impact.

moderatelyfatman · June 16

Northwold wrote: »

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Good lord. Guys, ZOS has no reason to "stop caring about" anything about the game, and they're certainly not rolling out a major new system which will require a significant effort in monitoring and balancing because they wanted to do it for themselves. That's a very silly thing to believe. I also have issues with some of the things ZOS has done with the game but come on, let's take a minute to think about this before we create polls (and reinforce arguments with those polls) that make us look like fussy children.

Maybe not ZOS, but I can see Microsoft turning off the money tap if they see ESO as a rapidly depreciating asset. The cancellation of the US events, the recycled assets in the new zone and the reduced content all scream 'budget cuts' and 'skeleton crew' while the increased price tag seems like a cynical attempt squeeze the last drops of milk from the few remaining players.

There is another way of looking at this (though I'm no fan of the new pricing structure), which is that inflation, including in salaries, has soared over the last few years and raising prices may be one way to keep ESO consistently staffed. That may or may not be the case, but it seems unlikely that ZOS costs have remained miraculously static while in essentially every other industry across the world inflation has had a huge impact.

I'm not sure it's simply inflation: do you think as many people have worked on Solstice as did on Necrom? When you think about the completely new designs of the latter plus the addition of an entirely new class, I'd say no. Add to that the split content with the delayed second half and it feels like a much smaller team is behind this.
I don't think ESO is being consistently staffed. If anything, the latest update feels like a clear example of Shrinkflation.

Northwold · June 16

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Good lord. Guys, ZOS has no reason to "stop caring about" anything about the game, and they're certainly not rolling out a major new system which will require a significant effort in monitoring and balancing because they wanted to do it for themselves. That's a very silly thing to believe. I also have issues with some of the things ZOS has done with the game but come on, let's take a minute to think about this before we create polls (and reinforce arguments with those polls) that make us look like fussy children.

Maybe not ZOS, but I can see Microsoft turning off the money tap if they see ESO as a rapidly depreciating asset. The cancellation of the US events, the recycled assets in the new zone and the reduced content all scream 'budget cuts' and 'skeleton crew' while the increased price tag seems like a cynical attempt squeeze the last drops of milk from the few remaining players.

There is another way of looking at this (though I'm no fan of the new pricing structure), which is that inflation, including in salaries, has soared over the last few years and raising prices may be one way to keep ESO consistently staffed. That may or may not be the case, but it seems unlikely that ZOS costs have remained miraculously static while in essentially every other industry across the world inflation has had a huge impact.

I'm not sure it's simply inflation: do you think as many people have worked on Solstice as did on Necrom? When you think about the completely new designs of the latter plus the addition of an entirely new class, I'd say no. Add to that the split content with the delayed second half and it feels like a much smaller team is behind this.
I don't think ESO is being consistently staffed. If anything, the latest update feels like a clear example of Shrinkflation.

Perhaps but shrinkflation can as often be about costs as gouging. I don't know what's driving this. I'm simply pointing out that ZOS does not exist in a bubble so to assume this is a death throes response does ignore other possibilities.

Desiato · June 16

Gadamlub14_ESO wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

Subclassing is an impactful change, but it was probably much less expensive to implement than scribing, especially because the subclass quest is so basic.

i mean, its not even fair to call the subclassing introductory quest a quest. its about as much of a quest as the free inn room housing quests are quests. except for possible technical difficulties, the way they introduced subclassing was about as low effort as they could have done.

Hence I called it basic! It's literally a quest though. Eesh. It's not like I'm defending ZOS.

Pixiepumpkin · June 16

DenverRalphy wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Why should anyone trust ZOS with a new MMO when things are going the way they are with ESO?

Gamers have selective memory. They'll always insist the newest game release will be the next big thing, despite all evidence to the contrary. Heck, it doesn't even have to be a new game release. It can be a remaster. Case in point, the recent Bethesda title that recently dropped a remaster is absolutely saturated with bugs, and quite horribly so. Most of those bugs were present in the orginal! Yet it sold like crazy, reviewers gave it perfect scores, and even praised the bugs as "part of the charm".

ZOS could drop any new MMO tomorrow, and it would get scooped up by the masses.

No, if that were true ESO would have been "scooped up by the masses". The only thing that has kept ESO going is its tie to the Elder Scrolls name and universe. Literally many if not most players came because of nostalgia from Morrowind, Skyrim or Oblivion. Without "Elder Scrolls" attached to this game, it would have been a miserable failure and shut down years ago.

Veinblood1965 · June 16

disky wrote: »

Good lord. Guys, ZOS has no reason to "stop caring about" anything about the game, and they're certainly not rolling out a major new system which will require a significant effort in monitoring and balancing because they wanted to do it for themselves. That's a very silly thing to believe. I also have issues with some of the things ZOS has done with the game but come on, let's take a minute to think about this before we create polls (and reinforce arguments with those polls) that make us look like fussy children.

Amen to this! Holy cow, linking a few posts and a few polls does not a conspiracy make.

Nemesis7884 · June 16

The challenge for zos is certsinly also that in nearly every poll you see about as much support as you see criticism for any topic as the eso player base is so diverse....

EXCEPT EVERYONE wsntd the old jabs model back

RealLoveBVB · June 16

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

The challenge for zos is certsinly also that in nearly every poll you see about as much support as you see criticism for any topic as the eso player base is so diverse....

EXCEPT EVERYONE wsntd the old jabs model back

But that wasn't always like this or at least not that extreme.