Syldras wrote: »

So, before replying to anything else (maybe in a later post), I'd like to give my view on the Corelanya Manor quest, as long as the impressions are still completely fresh.

I honestly love that quest. It (although that's probably a bit sad, actually) is the first quest since a long time that got me totally immersed (the last one was Zerith-var's story, but companion stories are always a bit different, and from chapter stories... well, that's been several years!). Felt like almost 2 hours of vacation, in a way (I wanted to really make the most of it, so I walked most of the time and just ran in passages where you had to fight; although, actually, I also sneaked alot... But anyway). If the writing for this game would be on that level all the time (or almost all the time), I'd be super happy and would truly recommend this game to friends. I can say this was clearly the best sidequest of this chapter (the bantam guar one was also nice, but that was a short and humorous one - so not really comparable), maybe even the best of this whole chapter - but I haven't fully finished the main quest yet.

But, really, everything in this quest just seemed right. The whole atmosphere, the location, background music, dialogues, lore books, voice acting, the lighting and effects (for the extent in which it's possible with this game's engine), so much beautiful imagery. The main story could actually really be from a early 19th century dark romanticist novel, very classic in its construction with the tragic, really tragic, background narration. Also, it had a few, slight Lovecraftian nuances - even more than whole Necrom had, actually. Or at least Necrom never felt actually eerie or like delving into something obscure to me.

Except for the atmosphere and the story in total, I enjoyed
- the main characters we encountered in the manor
- that there was no obvious black/white moralizing
- that our character could give a little statement about their own background/family, even if it makes no difference in the quest
- background lore about the end of necromancy among the Corelanya (it's not "everyone decided giving it up is the moral thing to do", which they usually try to tell us)
- the garden (pro tip from real life: you can't really get lost, since they always make you walk the longest path )

As for the things I liked a little less (but they were easy to ignore in this case, nothing serious)...

I don't get the whole conflict between the two quest givers, the sisters, to be honest. It seems such a minor thing to argue about? Like a waste of time to even bother about such things, from my point of view. I see that they were used as a parallel to other characters in the story, but nonetheless, their fight seemed really trivial (especially compared to the story of the people who once lived there).

I wouldn't really have needed npcs to accompany me inside at all, actually. Of course I see they were needed for some situations within the quest, but... if it had been written differently, without them, I'd happily explored the place alone! I'm someone who loves silence (I even usually quest at night because then I won't come across other people), it's just wonderfully relaxing to explore some abandoned place alone, be it in real life or in a game (in real life I'm also someone who wanders around for hours alone somewhere - forests, cemeteries, abandoned structures, whatever; and this quest totally evoke that feeling of being at such a place - and who's actually happy not to see or speak anyone for days and weeks). I don't really need or want a travel companion, I might tolerate one, if that person doesn't annoy me. In a game I'd want an npc accompanying me if that character functions as a lore source and tells me about the place. Otherwise I don't necessarily feel I'd need them.

And when it comes to this specific case, I found their arguing a little annoying. Luckily, it weren't more than 1 or 2 lines sometimes, at some locations, so it was easy to ignore. I also didn't talk to them at all if it wasn't necessary to progress - usually I'd talk to everyone, just to get extra dialogue out of curiosity - but in this case, I just thought "To Oblivion with it!", I won't let that disturb the beautiful atmosphere, so I just ignored them as much as possible. I see that's more a personal thing, other people might want to have that arguing between them and slightly more funny lines inbetween so the atmosphere doesn't get too dark for them? I don't know. It comes up to differences in personal preferences here, I guess.

Ah yes, the lesson at the end. Oh well, wouldn't have been necessary to spell it out (the typical "Today I learned..." type dialogues), but obviously mainstream mass media can't go without that nowadays. Like people can't just draw their own conclusions, you know, silently, in their head, for themselves.

Also, the puzzles weren't so interesting, but okay. At least easily done.

And why would my Dunmer be afraid of ghosts or think of ghosts as something horrifying? But that's one of those dialogue bits where the writers don't seem to consider that for some of Tamriel's cultures ghosts aren't anything unusual or strange at all.

But anyway, even if I wrote more in detail about the points I wasn't fully convinced of, overall, this was a beautiful quest I really enjoyed. I'd love to see more of that in this game.

metheglyn wrote: »

I wonder how large the writing team is at ESO, and how much choice they have in the writing of the average quest or character. For a quest, for example, are they given a rough idea or outline and then they work on it, or do they come up with the idea from scratch (or as close to scratch as you can get writing for an established world and lore)? I find the process of writing quite interesting.

metheglyn wrote: »

I admit I don't quite understand why that would be so, but so far all we've seen in this style of necromancy is a soul go into a living body (like in Corelanya manor).

metheglyn wrote: »

I just...I'm getting myself more confused, and to no good purpose. I don't think we're meant to look this deeply into this ritual.

metheglyn wrote: »

I imagine at some point we'll see what new Mannimarco looks like.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I wonder how large the writing team is at ESO, and how much choice they have in the writing of the average quest or character. For a quest, for example, are they given a rough idea or outline and then they work on it, or do they come up with the idea from scratch (or as close to scratch as you can get writing for an established world and lore)? I find the process of writing quite interesting.

According to the credits...
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/sotwc-credits
...there is currently 1 Project Narrative Director and 1 Loremaster, plus 9 writers.

And if I compare it with the credits for Morrowind and Summerset, one of the writers from back then is the narrative director now, but except for that, all names have changed. So no one left from the old writing team, it seems. It's interesting, by the way, that they only had 4 writers back then and now it's 9, but it's not more story content.

But of course, that still doesn't answer the more interesting questions of how exactly the process looks like and who wrote which stories. I'd be really curious about that!

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I admit I don't quite understand why that would be so, but so far all we've seen in this style of necromancy is a soul go into a living body (like in Corelanya manor).

That's an interesting point, actually. Remember the rat in Corelanya Manor that got "possessed"? When the spirit left, the rat wasn't dead. Okay, it didn't run anywhere, I think, but it still moved. Maybe it was a little confused. But that seems to indicate that after the spirit has left the body again, the original soul seems to be more or less fine.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I imagine at some point we'll see what new Mannimarco looks like.

The question is what horrible thing they will reveal to us

Now I have to think back at that Wormblood article. Didn't it say he was pale, gaunt and had, for some reason, glowing eyes? Of course we don't know how much of that is true, but let's assume that for now: Why would he have glowing eyes? Is he a lich? Although that would have probably caught someone's attention and have been mentioned, if it was the case?

Varana wrote: »

Mannimarco:

I imagine at some point we'll see what new Mannimarco looks like.

We know.

Varana wrote: »

We also go into Meridia's Coloured Rooms for a brief moment in the last phase of the Depths of Malatar final boss fight, with the same alien-ish coloured lighting in the sky.

Syldras wrote: »

As for Mannimarco,

and his body-swapping abilities, there have been speculations for a long time, since it's obvious he looks different in ESO, Daggerfall and Oblivion, with also a big difference between the last two games. Of course, we don't see much of his body in Daggerfall (and it's also a question how much of his looks is due to the narration and how much just because of the game graphics - we also have characters that were both in ESO and Morrowind, or in Morrowind and Oblivion, and they do look different in both games while we know they have not magically body-swapped or possessed someone or something like that). The usual interpretation for Daggerfall Mannimarco is the typical "dried up mummy" or skeleton lich (with glowy eyes, which is also something they attributed to Wormblood now, although I saw nothing of that; but anyway, Oblivion Mannimarco doesn't have glowing eyes like Daggerfall Mannimarco anymore either). And we know, in Oblivion he looks "normal" again. So some theorize he swapped into a different body once more between Daggerfall and Oblivion (or now we also of course might think that he could have magically restored the Daggerfall one into what we see in Oblivion, but we didn't know until recently that necromancers could fully restore a corpse, no matter its state of decay, to the original living form, because there hadn't been any lore about that). So I wouldn't say for sure that Oblivion Mannimarco is Wormblood's body, since we know there was a phase inbetween in Daggerfall where, well, it looked different. It really depends on whether where was another swap between Daggerfall and Oblivion or not (or earlier, who knows how often he might have swapped bodies throughout the centuries). It's sad, by the way, that in Oblivion he couldn't even afford shoes anymore. But anyway, the biggest question to me still is when exactly he became a lich.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I imagine the writers also do all the writing we find in the world: notes, journals, lore books, antiquity codex entries. They probably also write those meet the character articles (maybe some of the other articles, too). So while it's not direct story itself, it's still a lot of writing. Though some of the lore books are carried over from the single player games, I imagine there's fewer of those to draw from the longer this game is around.

I don't deny there's a lot of work to do. But I've also wondered whether tone mismatches or logic problems we see recently might have occurred becauses several people were writing on one dialogue or quest and didn't coordinate well. There's a proverb in my country that basically emphasizes exactly that: The more people work on one thing, the higher is the risk that errors occur because one might not know what another is doing. I just think it might be better to have a writer get their own quest to work on, since at least with your own writing, there can't be coordination mistakes or misunderstandings if no one else might alter it, add or delete parts, etc.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

From the article: "The cultists Raz questioned described Wormblood as a tall, gaunt High Elf with an unnatural pallor and dark eyes that “burn with unholy power.” (Their words, not Raz’s.)"
Eyes that 'burn with unholy power' could be glowing. Or it could just be a cultist's fanciful interpretation. Or a lie put in to big up Wormblood in the eyes of the enemy. The article does speculate he "might be a rather well-preserved lich."

If gaunt and pale defines a lich, 75% of my exes were lich. So that is hardly convincing. But, on a more serious note:

The question is whether he'll take off the mask in Part 2 and we'll see a little paler and more gaunt version of Mannimarco, or some entirely different features. Or maybe he just keeps the mask on and that's it. And yes, that seems to be the real big mystery of the story, but is it enough to motivate us to keep being interested? Well, I mean, I already paid for the whole thing anyway, and also, I'm curious what will happen with Vanny in the end. I truly hope we'll still get a bit more story and lore and this chapter isn't just meant to fill the narration gap between "alive-looking Mannimarco trapped in Coldharbour" and "Daggerfall lich Mannimarco free again" (and possibly Vanny dead) - that would be disappointing, if it wasn't more than just that.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

if continuity errors arise partly because ESO takes place before any of the other games, but is written long after.

Mistakes happen, of course. That's human. I just have the impression that mistakes happen more often lately, compared to the early years. The Morrowind chapter, for example, had many beautiful references to TES3, that made absolutely sense, and no errors at all. So I do wonder what changed. Their team is bigger now, which means there are more people who could notice a mistake and voice that, so in principle, more quality control; there's more knowledge to contribute (simple fact, 11 people know more than 6), and most of all, if there's some lore insecurity, they certainly have internal documents where they could re-read things, while I just have to rely on UESP in such cases. Actually, they should be well-prepared and have a good basis for their work. Still, there are more and more lore or logic errors (the first really big one really was Naryu's dialogue during the first Zenithar event - when was that? According to UESP, 2022).

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

As to when Mannimarco became a lich, that is also something I'd like to know. If Wormblood is a lich, does Mannimarco taking over that body make Mannimarco a lich? Or does he have to go through some ritual with his soul?

It really depends,

on whether they merged now or not. If they merged, and Wormblood was a lich, they're basically the lich Mannimarco-Wormblood now, just like Erandur-Vangaril became one being. If it's just Mannimarco's spirit possessing Wormblood's body for a while, then not. Although that still leads to the question how he was even able to do that without the artifact, and why he did that now and not earlier. And if Mannimarco was not a lich at this point, but Wormblood was one, is it plausible that a non-lich could possess a lich? Yes, I know, Mannimarco is said to be incredibly powerful - although, do we ever see much of that? - but still.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

But if they can restore a body to its original look, why would he not have done that, if it mattered to him, at some point between now and Daggerfall?

Well, they'd have to make up some lore for that, I guess. The truth about his looks in Daggerfall is probably simple: The "glowy-eyed skeleton in a hooded robe" thing was the typical "evil wizard/necromancer/lich/cultist" trope in fantasy media back then.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

There could also be changes and edits made along the way due to technical or narration concerns.

Just earlier I thought how interesting it is actually,

that we see Mannimarco's resurrection ritual clearly take place in the mine in that one trailer, but in game it's completely different. Now I know that the trailer videos are fully staged of course, everything about them, but it still made me wonder whether they originally had different plans, like not including the Colored Rooms into the story at all, for example.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

But did the eyes of your exes burn with unholy power? I think that's the real clue!

Nah, or only rarely. Not more often than mine. That means they were no lich then, right? I'm relieved! Thought the nightly chanting, raising of skeletal minions, and floating could have been some concerning clue to something sinister. On top of being a little annoying at times. Not so much the floating and the chanting, but having bone dust strewn all over the floor is a little irritating.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

the unmasking of Mannimarco should be our main goal in the next part of the story.

As soon as I'll get the chance

I'll jump on him and tear the mask down!

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Well, secondary goal after rescuing Vanny. While I am curious how Mannimarco ends up visually, my motivation for the second half is to get Vanny away from the cult and Mannimarco, because if this is how he dies, I will be so mad!

It would certainly be sad, especially since it would basically be another character just discarded, this time even despite attributed importance in lore, without much learning about the character's background before.

In general I dislike this tendency to just remove characters/locations/artifacts from the world again before they've reached their full narrative potential. Taken to the extreme of course with all the villains who show up for one story and then they're defeated and it's like they never had any impact anyway (and never even get mentioned anywhere again). Even worse if something introduced into TES lore just obviously serves the purpose to do one thing in a story, and never anything beyond that; this introducing of new concepts all the time, that you think could become interesting, but then, that's it.

I see, in every chapter, that there's great care when it comes to designing the map, or, situatively, "cool" visuals in stories. We've also seen that this time; there are a few dramatic scenes and all that. I just wished that in terms of lore and writing, especially in elaborating on the people, places and things we get introduced to, we would see as much effort (it was baffling to me that in the latest story, there are places where you get curious to learn more about them, but there's just no info about it - but I have already complained about that in this thread, Argonian pyramid, etc). Because it's not all about cool effects, in-depth info about the world the stories take place in is just as important.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

What was the issue with Naryu's dialogue during the first Zenithar event?

I knew I once complained about it in detail, so, from an old post of mine from back then:
Naryu: Hello, hero. Fancy seeing you at a simple festival with absolutely nothing covert going on. Unless ….
Player: If you're asking that does that mean you're not here on … business?
Naryu: Just passing through. You'd be surprised at just how useful random information about small towns or crafting techniques can be in my line of work.
Player: Is that all you're here to do?
Naryu: Such suspicion. Are you going to search me for weapons? You'll find some. But I doubt even you would confiscate all the knives I'm carrying. It may come as a shock to you, but I can do more than sneak around in the shadows.
(And here it starts to get weird:)
Player: I'm surprised the Tribunal doesn't have more work for you.
Naryu: They might, but I've never been good at listening to what the Mehra's say. I like playing the s'wit, it means I can surprise them later. I never know where I'll be called to go. And I'd rather not become one of the Tribunal's toys.
Player: But you saved Vivec and Sotha Sil.
Naryu: Exactly. Which is one of the reasons I'm laying low and talking to all the wonderfully boring people here. I'll be in Mournhold again soon, but I want to give the Living Gods a chance to find new hobbies.

She never saved any of the Tribunal gods, and on top of that the only lore bit telling us that she ever worked for the Tribunal somehow is from the book that was part of the Summerset physical collectors edition (that included a story about that). It never comes up directly in game, no one who did not own the collector's edition and read that book would know about that, and least of all the player character.

This was truly disappointing as this was a huge mistake about something very central (and rather recent even) - not just some tiny complicated thing hidden in obscure Arena lore or so, that might be easily missed. And since then, the number of mistakes has increased, which I find worrying.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Yeah, for sure, the absolute worst thing about lich-led rituals is getting all that bone dust out of the carpet and furniture.

It is horrible, especially if you have really expensive carpets! I have strict rules when it comes to that: No summonings (no matter of which kind) in the bedroom or kitchen, and no animal daedra on the couch (some of them might be cute, but it takes weeks to get rid of the sulphur smell)!

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Make sure you take a screenshot when that happens!

Of course I will.

I did a Solstice daily today about collecting what went overboard during one of the many storms (that we never see any of), which mentioned the "Worm Cult fleet". Can you imagine huge ships full of necromancers? I found it funny somehow.

Syldras wrote: »

Oh, and I found a lorebook I had missed in the Tainted Leel, the diary of that necromancer. I honestly found it a bit silly that inside that diary, the necromancer refers to him and his cultists as, quote, "evil necromancers" - who would do that?! I mean, I do call myself an "evil wizard" in this forum at times, but that's ironically, and also it's clear that it's roleplay and that is what my role would be called. But I'm quite sure that most evil characters would not call themselves "evil" within a narration. Most probably they don't think much about such categories, or see a good reason for what they do (and maybe might not find themselves evil at all), and also their focus in life most probably isn't "being evil". It's cartoonish somehow, or like something from a very obvious children's story, no? Although probably not even the evil witch in Hänsel & Gretel thinks of herself as "the evil witch", but she just is who she is.

And to add to that: That necromancer was a Corelanya. Necromancy was a normal part of his culture. So even less reason he would think of it (and of himself for partaking in a normal aspect of his culture) as evil.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

It's good to have clearly defined house rules!

It's vital, especially if a household member has potentially not completely undangerous hobbies.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Yeah, every time I'm by the coast on Solstice, it's clear skies and calms seas. Maybe it's not easy to render storm-tossed seas in game; I don't know.

It's still strange to let people talk about it all the time and make it a big part of the lore of the place, though. They could have come up with something else. Or maybe it could at least rain a bit at times, but I think I've never even seen rain there? It's also a little contradictive to have that lore, but in game you clearly see some tropical island vacation paradise.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Ships full of necromancers does sound like a joke, or a punchline of some sort. I've not done any of those dailies, so I was unaware the Worm Cult had arrived via fleet. That's a heck of a lot of cultists.

I would have assumed they arrived through portals. Like, they open portals everywhere and at all times, but on that island they arrive with ships, a whole fleet even?! And people just shrugged and were okay with it (yes, yes, I know, they're too happy to bother with anything)? Then, on the other hand...

in that mine, next to Mannimarco's sarcophagus, there's also a small boat. Which is rather funny as that could have never carried the weight of that thing, no matter which stone it might be made of.

Now of course, I'm wondering how a fleet of the Worm Cult would look like. What color would their sails be, or their flag? But yes, that's joke territory.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I'll have to go back and read that journal again, but I had thought he wrote that in a more or less tongue-in-cheek manner; that is, he wrote it like that because he knew the Argonians considered them that way. Wasn't he gloating that the Argonians were fooled and didn't have a clue they'd actually hired the "evil necromancers"? So not that he called himself that, but that he was aware that's what the Argonians viewed them as. Or maybe I just assumed that tone and context to make it make sense.

Shouldn't "evil necromancers" be put into quotation marks then? In any way, it wasn't clearly recognizable as a joke (at least in the German translation), but maybe one should give them the benefit of a doubt.

I just assumed it might just be another case of not considering the world or the perspective of the character whom they're supposed to portray, and to write from an outside, "real world" perspective instead. It's not the first time, after all; as a Dunmer I already had to be (without an option to skip that part of a conversation or choose a different reply) completely baffled by the concept of rebirth, as well as shocked about seeing a ghost (while it's very much possible that the ghost of Aunt Felara showed up for dinner two weeks ago and that a big council including the spirits of grandparents, great-grandparents and maybe some other dead relatives was held when the family had to make their latest bigger decision, etc). It sometimes really gives the impression they don't immerse themselves into the world of TES (with its own reality and laws of nature) and characters they're writing for.

Or that newest example with Sanguine worship being different on Solstice, which might make sense in the real world, but not in a fictional world where the deities actually appear and react and have a say in their worshippers' rites, so they can't just be changed arbitrarily by different cultures how ever they want. This is clearly a real-world way of thinking put into the game without considering that this fictional world is different than that.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

But I agree, make and enforce those house rules! By the way, which household member (other than yourself) has those potentially not completely undangerous hobbies? Or is that just none of my business?

You might want to ask the Bosmer that, after his return. Or have you truly thought all he does here all day is stealing food from my pantry and drinking jagga and sausage water?

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Yeah, it does seem odd that a fleet of cultists was allowed to dock and offload. I had assumed they came over surreptitiously, via portals or some such. But, hey, maybe they wore disguises. "We're just innocent people looking to start a new life on a tropical island paradise!"

With skeletal minions, a lich captain ("Captain Wormblood" ) and a huge

sarcophagus

on board?

Syldras wrote: »

Just found this, by the way - but it's from 2016, so they might have changed their plans after such a long time?

Why is it that Vanus and Mannimarco never interact? (2016-08-16)
It's important not to let major NPCs run away with the story -- because it's not their story, it's YOURS.
(Also, Galerion and Mannimarco's final confrontation takes place after the events of ESO.)

Source: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/General:Lawrence_Schick's_Posts

Syldras wrote: »

This is also a nice quote from back then...

How did Bethesda come up with the lore for the elder scrolls series? (2017-01-19)
Creation of rich and believable fantasy worlds is always grounded in a study of human history.

I fully agree with that and hope that this still plays a role today.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Well, I do hope that's still true, but perhaps in 2016 they didn't know how long ESO would stick around. And I agree with the idea that they shouldn't let major NPCs run away with the story, but would having them interact once or twice really do that?

From where things are headed, it does seem like they should have some kind of interaction in part 2.

In my opinion they absolutely should interact at some point because it would be an interesting situation. The only thing I hope is that it won't end with murder immediately, There's a lot more that could be told beyond "Vanny dead, Mannimarco fled to who knows where never to be seen again until Daggerfall". The situation would be final for ESO. Then again, I'm also not sure how many stories about Mannimarco they could still come up with - if it's always "evil necromancer wants to destroy the world", it gets old fast... I just hope we'll still get some interesting background lore before he leaves ESO for good, be it with or without Vanny's corpse. There's just so much that could still be told, for the time before TES2.

Syldras wrote: »

And what would he do with Vanny's corpse for over 700 years anyway?!

metheglyn wrote: »

I honestly don't know what else they could do with Mannimarco, though, since they have built him up as just this evil world-domination trope. It seems like his plans will always be heinous and our role will always be to stop him.

metheglyn wrote: »

There's something about him having tried, and failed, to betray and/or usurp Molag Bal, been condemned to forever torture, and now being out and about again that pretty much demands more lore. What does Molag Bal even think about this? Does he know Mannimarco slipped his bonds in Coldharbour? Or did Mannimarco somehow convince Molag Bal to give him a second chance? And so on in my mind, wanting all the answers, always.

metheglyn wrote: »

Well, except for maybe the one that goes to this question:
Because some questions just shouldn't be asked.

metheglyn wrote: »

Do you mean could ESO give a plausible reason why a character could choose to do quests for him and side with him? I think it could be done, narratively, with some finesse and nuance. But if you mean could they make it work in an MMO, I don't know. How would that work? One person chooses to aid him; another chooses to foil him: each has their own series of quest in service of that goal. What does the end-state look like? Since narratively we know that he survives (in some form) to another era, we can't truly defeat him, so the players choosing to foil him aren't going to get a clear victory. What do the players who choose to aid him get, since even being on the winning side, it's unlikely to show much change or effect in the game world?

metheglyn wrote: »

I've wondered some of the same things. Based on the image of Molag Bal torturing Mannimarco that the Prophet showed me in the main quest, there was no way Molag Bal was going to hand out a second chance. Yet in the prologue, it seemed very much like the Worm Cult was trying to impress Molag Bal and get back in with him. Maybe in an attempt to get Mannimarco's soul back? Would they really try a trick like that? Would Molag Bal fall for it for one second? But then they found the thing to get his soul without permission from Molag Bal, so why would they have mucked around with Molag Bal worship at all? Just how detailed was Mannimarco's back-up plan with secret cult nest and Wormblood? I'm really hoping some of these things are made more clear in the second half of the story.

metheglyn wrote: »

If there's one thing I know about Mannimarco, it's that safe does not apply.

metheglyn wrote: »

Although, earlier suppositions about Mannimarco as a Disney princess could lead to your singing and dancing around a glass coffin scenario. In that case, it all comes down to the lyrics of the song.

metheglyn wrote: »

And it would seem more likely than not that his mindset could have shifted after his years in Coldharbour.

metheglyn wrote: »

That would be more interesting than just "go kill evil cultists and ruin their plans!"

metheglyn wrote: »

Lol...oh, the consternation that would ripple through the internet at such a sight! I would like to see it, too, and I would laugh in good spirit.

metheglyn wrote: »

But, I'm not as offended by the latest trailer as others seem to be. Mostly I'm envious that we can't actually do some of those actions in game.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

And it would seem more likely than not that his mindset could have shifted after his years in Coldharbour.

If we'd think of him as a real person, probably. But the problem is: Do the writers see him as one, or just as the evil cult leader trope to be the great baddie in a quite formulatic fantasy story?

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

That would be more interesting than just "go kill evil cultists and ruin their plans!"

Certainly. And I honestly think that many people would feel the same. I really hope that ZOS will be more daring with their stories and go for something like that - something more complex and not so horribly black and white and stereotypical. The "Daedric Prince affiliated insane baddie wants to destroy the world - find actifact x, y and z and kill him, problem solved" formula is so overused, it's just not really interesting anymore. That might work once with a singular game, but in an ongoing story that spans over a decade, it just doesn't work to have (roughly) the same thing happening every year. If people say they don't like ESO's story content, I think that most of them don't mean they are uninterested in stories generally, but that they don't find the specific type of story that always comes up here appealing (or not anymore, because it just gets dull when it' repeated too often over several years).

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

Lol...oh, the consternation that would ripple through the internet at such a sight! I would like to see it, too, and I would laugh in good spirit.

It's a good question whether it would. I actually think that there would be quite some people who find it amusing.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

But, I'm not as offended by the latest trailer as others seem to be. Mostly I'm envious that we can't actually do some of those actions in game.

I'm not offended either. I dislike that the trailer shows a lot of things that are just not possible in the game, which might be misleading to some people. Also I thought it was a strange choice to have something rather happy and cheerful when this year's story is supposed to be about dark evil cultists. But upon seeing that there's another trailer that's closer to that, I'm more okay with there also being a few that focus on other aspects, even if they don't appeal to myself. And as I think ZOS might be trying to do different trailers for different target groups now, I'm curious what might come next. There's a big risk of it being total cringe (depending on whom they target and how; think of the elderly teacher who tries to be "cool" to appeal to the kids and totally fails out of lack of understanding...), but nonetheless, I'm curious.

metheglyn wrote: »

Considering he's never been presented as anything but the evil bad guy, it does seem that they see him as the stereotype.

metheglyn wrote: »

I'd like to see them be more daring, too, as well as move time forward. It doesn't have to match the passage of our time, but let things advance. I know they want people to be able to jump in and play the latest content, but I don't think that has to exclude the passage of time. Everything stagnates otherwise.

metheglyn wrote: »

I'm curious, too, since they're putting a pause on the cinematic trailers for now (or however it was worded--trying something different, maybe)

metheglyn wrote: »

These types of trailers are probably quicker to produce, and so they can have more variety. And, yeah, some of them might land with a big thud, but nothing ventured, nothing gained and all that. I do like the image of ZOS as the older teacher trying to be "cool" to appeal to the students (the player base) and hitting all the wrong cues--gave me a good chuckle.