Subclassing has sucked the life out of patch 46

Iselin · May 20

frogthroat wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Can't wait for June 2 when I'll drop Dark Magic from my one-bar, Oakensoul, HA, Sorcerer and add Assassination to it.

That's also something I've noticed. Most of the subclassing fans are HA sorcs...

Really? Where are you getting that from? Rigorous scientific research like most other comments here?

It's not enough to have a lazy, cheesy semi-godlike build, where you just have to hold the left mouse button.

Sorry, but I don't play sweaty meta builds. Don't have that kind of finger dexterity any more at 75. And there's a bit more to it than just LMB, LOL.

That just means that you are not trying hard enough... to not be 75.

Have you tried being 45 instead?

PVP is pretty hard at that age, too. These young whippersnappers do insane burst combos faster than I can blink.

Ain't that the truth. Even 10 years ago, I could still handle it, but no chance these days. I even once came within one keep of being crowned Emperor... close but no cigar

Desiato · May 20

"in my day I could double rocket jump across the water and toss a primed grenade/rocket combo at your face before landing"

- random genx gamer

thinkaboutit · May 20

Desiato wrote: »

"in my day I could double rocket jump across the water and toss a primed grenade/rocket combo at your face before landing"

- random genx gamer

teamfortress player ?

The_Meathead · May 20

frogthroat wrote: »

Improvise, adapt, overcome.

I dunno. We said this a LOT in the Marines.

You know when we said it? When things were going to total (expletive) and we had to handle the mission/situation/working party/4-hour retirement ceremony standing in formation/whatever.

I'd prefer we didn't have to 'embrace the suck' in my hobby and could actually enjoy it because it's fun and well crafted.

tomofhyrule · May 20

MJallday wrote: »

the amount of scaremongering and negativity, particularly on this forum (but also discord and reddit) is bewildering. as far as i can see its simply based on a few people (mainly so called end gamers) and "popularist" streamers expressing their displeasure because suddenly their little club of elitist completion just got opened up .

I see this argument all the time: "oh the only people who are against Subclassing/HA builds/whatever at the elite players who are scared that more people are going to join in!"

So... has anyone tried to get into endgame? Like really tried: actually used the meta gear setups and practiced parsing even on their off-meta Class character to get to a similar DPS output? Every Class can parse at that level (yes, I've seen Templars and Necros and DKs who can outparse Arcanists), and I've seen at least the trifectas through Dawnbringer completeable with pretty well any Class, and even the higher ones could probably have one really good endgame-level whatever playing with a group of meta beambots.

Or is this argument coming more from the place of "I don't want to practice or change anything about myself, I just want them to let me come as I am"?

The endgame community, at least at the level I am (which is not the highest echelons), wants more people to come in. It's been suffering a low population since the U35 exodus (where we also heard "people need to stop whining! There's not going to be an exodus!"). Heck, I've heard so many people talk about the inability to find groups for standard vets - not HMs. That's what really fell off. You have people who strugglebus their way through a vet at all because they don't understand what half their skills and gear do, and then the next step up is the hypersweaty trifectas. That middle group, which used to have a bunch of trainer raid leads, is what left since U35. Project Vitality had the goal of getting people there, and it shut down. But "U35 wasn't that bad! Why can't I find groups?"

The only thing is that endgame is not there to carry people. You are expected to pull your weight, and that does mean changing parts of your build the way your raid lead needs you to. And if you don't want to play with others, then understandably you're not going to be able to find groups. It's like doing group projects in school. If you have a group of people who all work well together and will help each other out, obviously they get a good grade. But if you have a group where one person says "I want to do it this way" and refuses to even try to help out, people are not going to want that person in their group, no matter how much they whine about how "toxic and elitist" everyone else is.

I see a lot of people making the "ugh, the elite players are gatekeepers" who:

don't proc their sets, like a healer with SPC who doesn't ever overheal
overlap buffs, like tanks wearing Yol when a lot of people use Oakensoul or Zenas
come to a trial as DPS and fill their skill bar with heals and shields instead of more damage as if they're soloing
wear the Ring of the Pale Order in group content
do not listen to a word of explanation from the raid lead
try to treat vet content like a normal run and don't respect mechanics, leading to them bombing the group
don't use potions at all, much less the right ones
don't res anyone
blame others for them dying
and above all: don't want to hear suggestions on how they can improve or reject any constructive feedback as "toxic"

Those things are all problems that prevent people from getting into higher-level groups. And none of that's gonna magically get fixed with Subclassing.

mrreow · May 20

Guys it’s okay to like the changes and be positive no one is going to attack you for it. But you have to also understand why some may find these developments not all rainbow and sunshine at all.

Both ways of reasoning have their merit it just depends how you play this game. It’s annoying though that now even as pretty casual player I will have to subclass to get into harder content when I really liked my class identity and built whole RP around it. I am not really happy to have to stick together broken bits of various unrelated themes just to avoid nerfs.

Feeling “contempt” about my opinion is a bit speaking about you more than about myself tbh

Ragnarok0130 · May 20

sleepy_worm wrote: »

My guild is excited about subclassing for the most part.

What type of guild is it, Role playing, dungeons/Trials, PVP, trading? Knowing what type of guild you are in helps paint the picture across various portions of the game. My trials guilds are extremely quiet to the point where I’m considering trying to find new ones to replace some of the utter ghost towns.

Maggusemm · May 20

To all the players who want to raise some concerns or are unhappy:

The PTS is a draft of a game. If some details are not working well, adress these details. These details can be changed.

Imagine for example the idea that subclassing is in fact narrowing builds. Well this is not about subclassing, but about a detail (i.e. fatecarver in combination with passives of other classes) that outperforms everything.

I mean ESO wanted like to give skills standard damage for AOE and single target. Fatecarver is not within this standards but does exceed it. So is subclassing the problem? No.

Imagine the standards, e.g. for damage dealing, would be somehow comparable, then there would be really a great diversity of builds. So do not complain about subclassing, but the details how some skills work.

Subclassing is great idea.

Formulate improvement potential on the root causes and avoid sentences or headlines which let you sound like a six year old child like "Subclassing has sucked the life out of patch 46", "This might be the worst patch so far", "Subclassing worse than U35?", "I don’t see how we may propose improvements to this core design flaw"

mrreow · May 20

The root cause of problems is ability to mix together classes in a way it is on PTS so I don’t see how we may propose improvements to this core design flaw

It also should be called multiclassing by the way to be accurate

Elowen_Starveil · May 20

Desiato wrote: »

"in my day I could double rocket jump across the water and toss a primed grenade/rocket combo at your face before landing"

- random genx gamer

Is this the part where I point out that I ran a LAN party once, and to give everyone a chance, I ran a round of Q2 CTF while always going backwards... and still had twice as many kills as the next person?

There was a service around that time that polled Q2 server logs, and ranked people. You had to play (only) 10 hours a week to get ranked. The one week I broke the threshold, I was 50th in the world.

I figured I would lose that edge as I grew older, but I had no idea how much it would fall off. Now, I struggle to get into the top 20 of a Battlefield server, while my sons take first and second place while watching a YouTube video doing it.

I am utterly hopeless at PVP. FPS skill simply does not translate to the combat in ESO.

Twohothardware · May 20

How exactly does Subclassing suck the life out of the next patch? You'll have more freedom to run whatever you want using subclassing next patch than you do right now because DPS across the board is going up while the DPS ceiling in hard content like Trials isn't currently being raised. That means even one bar heavy attack builds will be far more viable than they are right now for DPS.

RealLoveBVB · May 20

Twohothardware wrote: »

How exactly does Subclassing suck the life out of the next patch? You'll have more freedom to run whatever you want using subclassing next patch than you do right now because DPS across the board is going up while the DPS ceiling in hard content like Trials isn't currently being raised. That means even one bar heavy attack builds will be far more viable than they are right now for DPS.

Exactly! Everything turns into easy mode now.
Where's the challenge?

YandereGirlfriend · May 20

Thorncrypt wrote: »

By the looks of things... people will get to have fun with OP and broken builds for a couple of months before they are inevitably nerfed into oblivion and forgotten. Then they will move on to the next OP combo until that too is nerfed. Rinse and repeat.

War... war never changes.

Desiato · May 20

thinkaboutit wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

"in my day I could double rocket jump across the water and toss a primed grenade/rocket combo at your face before landing"

- random genx gamer

teamfortress player ?

og qwtf

This still gives me shivers.

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

I figured I would lose that edge as I grew older, but I had no idea how much it would fall off. Now, I struggle to get into the top 20 of a Battlefield server, while my sons take first and second place while watching a YouTube video doing it.

I am utterly hopeless at PVP. FPS skill simply does not translate to the combat in ESO.

I was far more competitive in my first eso life than I expected to be and let's just say much less so 10 years later! I still play Rust occasionally and can almost be decent, but the floor always falls out from under my feet via some kind of tendon/muscle/soft tissue injury like an athlete that tries to play too long.

cuddles_with_wroble · May 20

Iselin wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Can't wait for June 2 when I'll drop Dark Magic from my one-bar, Oakensoul, HA, Sorcerer and add Assassination to it.

That's also something I've noticed. Most of the subclassing fans are HA sorcs...

Really? Where are you getting that from? Rigorous scientific research like most other comments here?

It's not enough to have a lazy, cheesy semi-godlike build, where you just have to hold the left mouse button.

Sorry, but I don't play sweaty meta builds. Don't have that kind of finger dexterity any more at 75. And there's a bit more to it than just LMB, LOL.

I think most people agree that there should be builds that are catered to those players like you and that they should be strong, I think the core issue a lot of people have is that they feel their high apm sweaty build should do like 10 -15% more damage than your low apm build bcs they are doing more work. Currently in eso this is not true and there is no real payoff or reward for playing the high apm builds or classes

Like I have no issue with the beam-canist or the heavy attack sorc type builds doing 100k but what I don’t like is that if I sweat really hard on a way more intense class… I also do 100k. That feels bad

Diminish · May 20

Most people who primarily PvP that I have seen discuss the upcoming changes think it is going to be the death of the game. These are the same people who cry all day about how bad the game currently is. They complain about lag, ball groups, this set, that set, X class, Y class, etc. like a broken record. They then proceed to clock another 10+ hour ESO stream every day of the week. I think I'll withold my own judgement until it's implemented, and I've had adequate time to experience the changes for myself.

tl;dr: Take what others think about subclassing with a grain of salt. They are probably wrong.

Diminish · May 20

Stamicka wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Improvise, adapt, overcome.

In the case of subclassing, this just means everyone who cares about optimization will end up on the same "class". What's fun about that?

So... nothing changes? Been that way for YEARS now.

cuddles_with_wroble · May 20

Diminish wrote: »

Most people who primarily PvP that I have seen discuss the upcoming changes think it is going to be the death of the game. These are the same people who cry all day about how bad the game currently is. They complain about lag, ball groups, this set, that set, X class, Y class, etc. like a broken record. They then proceed to clock another 10+ hour ESO stream every day of the week. I think I'll withold my own judgement until it's implemented, and I've had adequate time to experience the changes for myself.

tl;dr: Take what others think about subclassing with a grain of salt. They are probably wrong.

Well but all the people crying about lag and ballgroups are in the right.

There is definitely lag in cyro
There are definitely ballgroups
These things are in fact related
The classes are very unbalanced in PvP

This has all been true for years, it has been ignored for years.

Most people with fully formed frontal cortexes can figure this out

kurbbie_s · May 20

tomofhyrule wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

the amount of scaremongering and negativity, particularly on this forum (but also discord and reddit) is bewildering. as far as i can see its simply based on a few people (mainly so called end gamers) and "popularist" streamers expressing their displeasure because suddenly their little club of elitist completion just got opened up .

I see this argument all the time: "oh the only people who are against Subclassing/HA builds/whatever at the elite players who are scared that more people are going to join in!"

So... has anyone tried to get into endgame? Like really tried: actually used the meta gear setups and practiced parsing even on their off-meta Class character to get to a similar DPS output? Every Class can parse at that level (yes, I've seen Templars and Necros and DKs who can outparse Arcanists), and I've seen at least the trifectas through Dawnbringer completeable with pretty well any Class, and even the higher ones could probably have one really good endgame-level whatever playing with a group of meta beambots.

Or is this argument coming more from the place of "I don't want to practice or change anything about myself, I just want them to let me come as I am"?

The endgame community, at least at the level I am (which is not the highest echelons), wants more people to come in. It's been suffering a low population since the U35 exodus (where we also heard "people need to stop whining! There's not going to be an exodus!"). Heck, I've heard so many people talk about the inability to find groups for standard vets - not HMs. That's what really fell off. You have people who strugglebus their way through a vet at all because they don't understand what half their skills and gear do, and then the next step up is the hypersweaty trifectas. That middle group, which used to have a bunch of trainer raid leads, is what left since U35. Project Vitality had the goal of getting people there, and it shut down. But "U35 wasn't that bad! Why can't I find groups?"

The only thing is that endgame is not there to carry people. You are expected to pull your weight, and that does mean changing parts of your build the way your raid lead needs you to. And if you don't want to play with others, then understandably you're not going to be able to find groups. It's like doing group projects in school. If you have a group of people who all work well together and will help each other out, obviously they get a good grade. But if you have a group where one person says "I want to do it this way" and refuses to even try to help out, people are not going to want that person in their group, no matter how much they whine about how "toxic and elitist" everyone else is.

I see a lot of people making the "ugh, the elite players are gatekeepers" who:
don't proc their sets, like a healer with SPC who doesn't ever overheal

overlap buffs, like tanks wearing Yol when a lot of people use Oakensoul or Zenas

come to a trial as DPS and fill their skill bar with heals and shields instead of more damage as if they're soloing

wear the Ring of the Pale Order in group content

do not listen to a word of explanation from the raid lead

try to treat vet content like a normal run and don't respect mechanics, leading to them bombing the group

don't use potions at all, much less the right ones

don't res anyone

blame others for them dying

and above all: don't want to hear suggestions on how they can improve or reject any constructive feedback as "toxic"

Those things are all problems that prevent people from getting into higher-level groups. And none of that's gonna magically get fixed with Subclassing.

This is extremely accurate in almost every thread that is describing the problems we have, or have had. There is always a group of brigadiers that shout "nah youre just toxic, youre just x, youre just y" and it drown out criticism. If you have nothing to contribute to the thread other than "you're just xyz so that's why" please do not comment, you're not adding to the discussion, you're only stifling it.

Everything said in the quote is true.

kurbbie_s · May 20

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Can't wait for June 2 when I'll drop Dark Magic from my one-bar, Oakensoul, HA, Sorcerer and add Assassination to it.

That's also something I've noticed. Most of the subclassing fans are HA sorcs...

Really? Where are you getting that from? Rigorous scientific research like most other comments here?

It's not enough to have a lazy, cheesy semi-godlike build, where you just have to hold the left mouse button.

Sorry, but I don't play sweaty meta builds. Don't have that kind of finger dexterity any more at 75. And there's a bit more to it than just LMB, LOL.

I think most people agree that there should be builds that are catered to those players like you and that they should be strong, I think the core issue a lot of people have is that they feel their high apm sweaty build should do like 10 -15% more damage than your low apm build bcs they are doing more work. Currently in eso this is not true and there is no real payoff or reward for playing the high apm builds or classes

Like I have no issue with the beam-canist or the heavy attack sorc type builds doing 100k but what I don’t like is that if I sweat really hard on a way more intense class… I also do 100k. That feels bad

I dont agree at all. Designing a setup around someone with a physical handicap does nothing but make the game less a challenge. You dont enter a 50 meter dash and have no legs.

Diminish · May 20

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Diminish wrote: »

Most people who primarily PvP that I have seen discuss the upcoming changes think it is going to be the death of the game. These are the same people who cry all day about how bad the game currently is. They complain about lag, ball groups, this set, that set, X class, Y class, etc. like a broken record. They then proceed to clock another 10+ hour ESO stream every day of the week. I think I'll withold my own judgement until it's implemented, and I've had adequate time to experience the changes for myself.

tl;dr: Take what others think about subclassing with a grain of salt. They are probably wrong.

Well but all the people crying about lag and ballgroups are in the right.

There is definitely lag in cyro
There are definitely ballgroups
These things are in fact related
The classes are very unbalanced in PvP

This has all been true for years, it has been ignored for years.

Most people with fully formed frontal cortexes can figure this out

Classes really aren't unbalanced. Wardens complain about sorcs, sorcs complain about nightblades, nightblades complain about Templars, etc. Hardly anyone plays necro, or arcanist, and those that do perform fine.

My point wasn't that ball groups and lag don't exist, it's that complainers will complain whilst simultaneously clocking hundreds of hours play time a month. Subclassing will be no different... just another thing for some to complain about. ZOS is doing something right if you're still here playing; I'm sure they understand better than anyone how this affects the game moving forward. It gets to the point where some of these folks should go play something else... for their own wellbeing.

Tannus15 · May 20

My trials guild is excited for the changes.
We're currently working out the changes we'll be making to our mains and which subclass skill lines to level.

Rohamad_Ali · May 20

Every 5 years we have to re learn everything.

Jierdanit · May 20

Diminish wrote: »

My point wasn't that ball groups and lag don't exist, it's that complainers will complain whilst simultaneously clocking hundreds of hours play time a month. Subclassing will be no different... just another thing for some to complain about. ZOS is doing something right if you're still here playing; I'm sure they understand better than anyone how this affects the game moving forward. It gets to the point where some of these folks should go play something else... for their own wellbeing.

That might be true for some or even most of the people complaining.
But as my slowly dying out friends list and guild rosters can tell you for every few people who continue playing, every single time there is at least one who decides that at some point ZOS has insulted them enough and stop playing.

ZOS has done very little right in the past years. The main reason I am still playing is because I don't want the thousands of hours or the money I've spent on the great game that ESO used to be to go to waste. I know that the same thing is to at least some extent true for a lot of the other veteran PvP players I know.

As you say, those folks are going to play something else, because ZOS has proven more than enough that they cant be bothered to actually care about their veteran (PvP) playerbase. That is exactly what people are complaining about, but apparently you don't think there is any point to it?

Also judging by how ZOS has acted in the past I really don't think anyone should expect them to know what is good for their game.

mrreow · May 20

It’s kind of strange that zos focuses on solo gameplay mostly when for solo gameplay we have much superior single player games. Even more bizarre is that it financially works for some reason

I have recently fired up modded morrowind with all bells and whistles (grass, ai scaled textures, mge xe + Tamriel rebuilt) and it is incomparably better single player experience. Prettier game than ESO! with mods, tons of new content, feast for eyes. That was suprising to be honest eso visuals and art direction are kind of not aging as gracefully as tes games. It’s hard to believe but 2002 game with mods slightly beats eso in visual aesthetics department.

You even have oblivion remastered now to enjoy and savour this delicacy. Why would anyone play overland eso and try to RP or force multiclassing just to compete with something you cannot compete because you are an mmo…

I play ALL elder scrolls games but as a sane person I quest and travel, rp in single player tes 3,4,5 + VR and do dungeons, trials and PvP in eso because duh

I enjoy both eso and tes very much for completely different reasons and in my opinion it is wise to enhance the strengths of each game so raiding and PvP in eso should be an obvious priority because this is bread and butter of mmos but you cannot really compete with freedom of tes and you definitely shouldn’t try at the cost of raiding and PvP

ADarklore · May 20

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

It hasnt arrived yet. why would it "suck the life out"?

theres a lot of people jumping to a lot of conclusions based on a limited amount of experience on the PTS.

Im reserving judgement until its been in place a few months.

The game is pretty simple and it’s basically been solved for years, it’s doesn’t really take that much play testing on the pts to know how something will effect the live game, plus like I said subclassing isn’t adding anything new it just lets you stack buffs that you couldn’t stack before so the only real change is that support players are less needed bcs dps are even more self sufficient

I don't see how you can say, "isn't adding anything new" because for me, it's a complete game-changer. I don't believe for a second this was added for PvP or "Endgame" players- it was added for RPG and 'Skyrim with Friends' players. For us, this is an absolutely awesome change because it will now allow us to 'play as you want' by creating our own classes. I left a year ago because of complete boredom. I've said this many times, I have 18 alts and have leveled every class multiple times, played for years swapping around, but left because at the end of the day- it was so unbearably repetitive. There was no options to change class skills and 'be different', and I always said over and over, "If I could only combine this class skill with this one, it'd enjoy the game SO much better." Well, in U46, I'll finally be able to do that... and it has me returning to the game and investing more money to help support it.

kurbbie_s · May 21

Diminish wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Diminish wrote: »

Most people who primarily PvP that I have seen discuss the upcoming changes think it is going to be the death of the game. These are the same people who cry all day about how bad the game currently is. They complain about lag, ball groups, this set, that set, X class, Y class, etc. like a broken record. They then proceed to clock another 10+ hour ESO stream every day of the week. I think I'll withold my own judgement until it's implemented, and I've had adequate time to experience the changes for myself.

tl;dr: Take what others think about subclassing with a grain of salt. They are probably wrong.

Well but all the people crying about lag and ballgroups are in the right.

There is definitely lag in cyro
There are definitely ballgroups
These things are in fact related
The classes are very unbalanced in PvP

This has all been true for years, it has been ignored for years.

Most people with fully formed frontal cortexes can figure this out

Classes really aren't unbalanced. Wardens complain about sorcs, sorcs complain about nightblades, nightblades complain about Templars, etc. Hardly anyone plays necro, or arcanist, and those that do perform fine.

My point wasn't that ball groups and lag don't exist, it's that complainers will complain whilst simultaneously clocking hundreds of hours play time a month. Subclassing will be no different... just another thing for some to complain about. ZOS is doing something right if you're still here playing; I'm sure they understand better than anyone how this affects the game moving forward. It gets to the point where some of these folks should go play something else... for their own wellbeing.

lol you have to be a new player. There was a mass exodus in U35. This is most likely going to happen again.

kurbbie_s · May 21

ADarklore wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

It hasnt arrived yet. why would it "suck the life out"?

theres a lot of people jumping to a lot of conclusions based on a limited amount of experience on the PTS.

Im reserving judgement until its been in place a few months.

The game is pretty simple and it’s basically been solved for years, it’s doesn’t really take that much play testing on the pts to know how something will effect the live game, plus like I said subclassing isn’t adding anything new it just lets you stack buffs that you couldn’t stack before so the only real change is that support players are less needed bcs dps are even more self sufficient

I don't see how you can say, "isn't adding anything new" because for me, it's a complete game-changer. I don't believe for a second this was added for PvP or "Endgame" players- it was added for RPG and 'Skyrim with Friends' players. For us, this is an absolutely awesome change because it will now allow us to 'play as you want' by creating our own classes. I left a year ago because of complete boredom. I've said this many times, I have 18 alts and have leveled every class multiple times, played for years swapping around, but left because at the end of the day- it was so unbearably repetitive. There was no options to change class skills and 'be different', and I always said over and over, "If I could only combine this class skill with this one, it'd enjoy the game SO much better." Well, in U46, I'll finally be able to do that... and it has me returning to the game and investing more money to help support it.

then how is being able to use the same skills any different than changing the class youre playing? Doesnt make sense to me.

gc0018 · May 21

People who don't play PTS are talking a lot while the PTS players are silent. I guess it means the subclassing is generally boring after several days.

The_Meathead · May 21

All of us can only give anecdotal evidence in this, but for me?

My tiny herd of diehard RP pals aren't going anywhere, but most of them don't actually play the game these days and only log in once a week for RP night to supplement writing on our Site and being very active on Discord. Honestly, if the very few of us who still play ESO regularly moved to a different game, the whole little group would go to that one too. They don't care about Subclassing, in either direction, because they (mostly) don't play the game or pay $$ at this point.

The much, much larger but less personal (to me) groups of PvPers I came to loosely befriend from chatting in BGs or Cyrodiil over the years since Launch took a massive hit during U35 and most are very dubious about Subclassing and PvP balance and some have already stepped away. The two PvP Discords I'm on are very bummed and have gotten quieter and quieter as this draws close, outside of snickering about how bad the balance will be. This group is where the $$ are, with a far bigger number subbed or buying Xpacs for new Mythics to use in PvP and hurl some Crowns at the cash shop from time to time.

I've never been a high end PvEr in ESO and it holds no interest for me, but I can only imagine how that group is feeling.

Not being a doomer, I really don't see how this is going to help the population as a whole in the long run. There just seems no way ESO is going to bring in more players/subs/$$ than it's going to lose by running off already established and invested customers for whom it's just a bridge too far after U35 already made it a very hot seat.