Vengeance Redux - New Non-Class Skills

Pepegrillos · May 20

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Pepegrillos wrote: »

I suspect AOE caps are there not just for performance. I don't think they want 1vxers or small-groups dunking on big groups of new/bad players in this campaign, which is what uncapped aoes would facilitate.

Which is silly, because the alternative is that every fight is won by the players with more numbers.

We've been through this before - AoE caps were shown to be bad for Cyrodiil's gameplay.

I'd say that depending on how strict the AOE Cap is, absolute numbers have a much bigger weight on the results of the fights. However, it was clear in the previous test that better players in groups still had an edge (although limited when zergs reached a certain size).

My guess is that they will tinker around with the number (from 3 to 5 or 6 maybe?). But I'd be surprised it they just remove it altogether such that we are back to the current gameplay.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · May 20

Pepegrillos wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Pepegrillos wrote: »

I suspect AOE caps are there not just for performance. I don't think they want 1vxers or small-groups dunking on big groups of new/bad players in this campaign, which is what uncapped aoes would facilitate.

Which is silly, because the alternative is that every fight is won by the players with more numbers.

We've been through this before - AoE caps were shown to be bad for Cyrodiil's gameplay.

I'd say that depending on how strict the AOE Cap is, absolute numbers have a much bigger weight on the results of the fights. However, it was clear in the previous test that better players in groups still had an edge (although limited when zergs reached a certain size).

My guess is that they will tinker around with the number (from 3 to 5 or 6 maybe?). But I'd be surprised it they just remove it altogether such that we are back to the current gameplay.

ZOS said themselves that AOE caps were bad for performance because it encouraged player behaviour which caused more lag.

JustLovely · May 20

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

React wrote: »

This all looks pretty good, except the target cap on damaging AOEs. It would be absolutely amazing if we could have all AOE heals continue being capped, whilst removing the cap from damage skills - allowing damage to have a slight edge over healing in larger fights. AOE caps on damage skills simply do not work for the large scale combat that is cyrodiil. They completely ruin large scale fights and turn it into a numbers simulator, where the larger groups wins 99% of the time.

I really like the direction vengeance is going. If you're careful about what you add in terms of cross healing, dots, and self healing i think we can have an environment that truly resembles what a lot of us miss about eso pvp - one based on skill and mechanical knowledge as opposed to builds and exploitation of broken mechanics. But please, PLEASE consider removing the target caps from damaging AOEs.

Just a brief follow up here. We took some of the comments around the target caps from damaging AOEs to the team. They will be continually looking at abilities throughout the tests in the future with considerations of caps as well. But currently nothing to announce at this time. Just wanted to flag that it is on the team's radar.

ZOS originally announced that vengeance mode is a test bed for testing so that ZOS will better understand how to improve regular live mode. Is that still the case? ...because it sure looks like all the effort is going into vengeance mode and none is going into improving the current live mode. Is ZOS still committed to keeping a campaign using the current live mode parameters?

@ZOS_Kevin

tsaescishoeshiner · May 20

I wonder if some of these skills will make ballgroups viable, which would reduce my enjoyment of Vengeance Cyrodiil. The tools to combat ballgroups, like proxy det, actually seem to be what enable them.

I'll have to see when the next Vengeance test drops, but ultimately, as much as more variety sounded nice, I can't help but wonder if the more pared-down Vengeance mode with just class abilities was preferable to me. It felt good, and the classes were unique, although it wasn't perfect.

YandereGirlfriend · May 20

JustLovely wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

React wrote: »

This all looks pretty good, except the target cap on damaging AOEs. It would be absolutely amazing if we could have all AOE heals continue being capped, whilst removing the cap from damage skills - allowing damage to have a slight edge over healing in larger fights. AOE caps on damage skills simply do not work for the large scale combat that is cyrodiil. They completely ruin large scale fights and turn it into a numbers simulator, where the larger groups wins 99% of the time.

I really like the direction vengeance is going. If you're careful about what you add in terms of cross healing, dots, and self healing i think we can have an environment that truly resembles what a lot of us miss about eso pvp - one based on skill and mechanical knowledge as opposed to builds and exploitation of broken mechanics. But please, PLEASE consider removing the target caps from damaging AOEs.

Just a brief follow up here. We took some of the comments around the target caps from damaging AOEs to the team. They will be continually looking at abilities throughout the tests in the future with considerations of caps as well. But currently nothing to announce at this time. Just wanted to flag that it is on the team's radar.

ZOS originally announced that vengeance mode is a test bed for testing so that ZOS will better understand how to improve regular live mode. Is that still the case? ...because it sure looks like all the effort is going into vengeance mode and none is going into improving the current live mode. Is ZOS still committed to keeping a campaign using the current live mode parameters?

@ZOS_Kevin

This is indeed the highest priority question.

Nobody has an issue if Vengeance becomes an option to choose alongside normal/current rules campaigns. Forcing it on everyone, whether they want it or not, however, would be a disastrous move.

Erickson9610 · May 21

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

This is indeed the highest priority question.

Nobody has an issue if Vengeance becomes an option to choose alongside normal/current rules campaigns. Forcing it on everyone, whether they want it or not, however, would be a disastrous move.

We already know ZOS's stance on this. ESO is one game — that means Vengeance won't forever be replacing regular Cyrodiil, and going forward PvP won't be balanced separately from PvE. Until they say otherwise, Vengeance is still just a test for measuring performance with higher population caps.

And it's honestly a pretty enjoyable test at that. Even people at ZOS had fun with it! I hope they consider making it an optional mode for Battlegrounds, Imperial City, and Cyrodiil. Especially Battlegrounds, since it's too easy to get steamrolled by or be the ones steamrolling the other team(s).

Xarc · May 21

thx @ZOS_Kevin for all your informations, it's so cool to have communication from zos

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

React wrote: »

This all looks pretty good, except the target cap on damaging AOEs. It would be absolutely amazing if we could have all AOE heals continue being capped, whilst removing the cap from damage skills - allowing damage to have a slight edge over healing in larger fights. AOE caps on damage skills simply do not work for the large scale combat that is cyrodiil. They completely ruin large scale fights and turn it into a numbers simulator, where the larger groups wins 99% of the time.

I really like the direction vengeance is going. If you're careful about what you add in terms of cross healing, dots, and self healing i think we can have an environment that truly resembles what a lot of us miss about eso pvp - one based on skill and mechanical knowledge as opposed to builds and exploitation of broken mechanics. But please, PLEASE consider removing the target caps from damaging AOEs.

Just a brief follow up here. We took some of the comments around the target caps from damaging AOEs to the team. They will be continually looking at abilities throughout the tests in the future with considerations of caps as well. But currently nothing to announce at this time. Just wanted to flag that it is on the team's radar.

ZOS originally announced that vengeance mode is a test bed for testing so that ZOS will better understand how to improve regular live mode. Is that still the case? ...because it sure looks like all the effort is going into vengeance mode and none is going into improving the current live mode. Is ZOS still committed to keeping a campaign using the current live mode parameters?

@ZOS_Kevin

This is indeed the highest priority question.

Nobody has an issue if Vengeance becomes an option to choose alongside normal/current rules campaigns. Forcing it on everyone, whether they want it or not, however, would be a disastrous move.

totally agree
I would like to play Vengeance but I still wish it was possible for other people to play "normal" Cyrodiil.