Can we have Subracing too?

moderatelyfatman · May 11

I would like to have the strongest possible dps, heal and tanking builds on the same character.
I would also like to have a character's racial background for role-playing reasons rather than being forced to play Dark Elf for my dps, Nord/Imperial for tank etc.
This would also fix the problem right now with no one playing Redguard or Breton in PvE outside of role-playing.

francesinhalover · May 11

I keep saying it and i still defend that passives should be player choice, there should be no best race for dps or tanking.
Races should still keep their traits like lava resistance, swimming speed, 1% extra gold though.

Honestly given how much power subclassing is bringing. I wouldn't mind if passives were removed from races. let people race change for free for 1 month. And play with what ever race they want.

ZigoSid · May 11

Yes and sub-weaponing too. I want to shoot fireballs with my sword

wolfie1.0. · May 11

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

I would like to have the strongest possible dps, heal and tanking builds on the same character.
I would also like to have a character's racial background for role-playing reasons rather than being forced to play Dark Elf for my dps, Nord/Imperial for tank etc.
This would also fix the problem right now with no one playing Redguard or Breton in PvE outside of role-playing.

My main DPS for PVE is a Breton. Thus your claim that no one does isn't exactly true. Please avoid blanket statements that are unverified,

If ZOS were to remove racial passives it's possible that they would just remove them entirely and make it cosmetic, and not replace them at all, same applies with mundus stones. These are TES carryovers and traditions, i would hate to see them change, but it would tone down the power creep we are about to get.

With subclassing likely allowing some OP builds racial passives are going to be insignificant anyways, which means they won't matter. At a certain point diminishing returns kick in.

Honestly, if I were zos I would start to implement game mechanics that would kick in during PVE content if the group is over optimized.

Soarora · May 11

How would that even work? You can’t change your blood after you’re born. Bretons are used in PvE for their passives, I think only Redguards are in need of buffing. It may not be the strongest combination but I’ve cleared most of the content in the game as “wrong” races.

SeaGtGruff · May 11

I play Redguard and Breton in PvE/PvP. I'm not much of a role-player, certainly not like most other players. I don't try to give my characters a backstory of any kind, and generally don't limit their activities based on an imagined set of character traits.

Erickson9610 · May 11

ZigoSid wrote: »

Yes and sub-weaponing too. I want to shoot fireballs with my sword

Unironically, that would be really cool. An enchanted sword of sorts.

francesinhalover · May 11

ZigoSid wrote: »

Yes and sub-weaponing too. I want to shoot fireballs with my sword

id love that

YandereGirlfriend · May 11

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

I would like to have the strongest possible dps, heal and tanking builds on the same character.
I would also like to have a character's racial background for role-playing reasons rather than being forced to play Dark Elf for my dps, Nord/Imperial for tank etc.
This would also fix the problem right now with no one playing Redguard or Breton in PvE outside of role-playing.

There's zero precedent for this in the lore of the series. There's a book in Skyrim that explains how it works.

Daoin · May 11

i vote yes to sub-races

Mesite · May 11

I have Breton healers for PvE. Also a Breton nightblade.

Mesite · May 11

While I've resisted mixing up racial passives in the past, I'm getting bored with using the same races for new characters now. I have a Redguard who wants to be out doing dungeons too but he hasn't left his house for a few years.

ImmortalCX · May 11

francesinhalover wrote: »

I keep saying it and i still defend that passives should be player choice, there should be no best race for dps or tanking.
Races should still keep their traits like lava resistance, swimming speed, 1% extra gold though.

Honestly given how much power subclassing is bringing. I wouldn't mind if passives were removed from races. let people race change for free for 1 month. And play with what ever race they want.

Racials should be choice, with restrictions to certain races choosing particular bonuses.

That way race would still mean something, but there would still be enough good choices to overcome the restrictions.

ImmortalCX · May 11

Mesite wrote: »

While I've resisted mixing up racial passives in the past, I'm getting bored with using the same races for new characters now. I have a Redguard who wants to be out doing dungeons too but he hasn't left his house for a few years.

My main is a redguard from nearly ten years ago. I still play her. My impression is that if you play with item enchants, you can make up the differences.

I haven't even looked at the racial stats for a while, but the extra sustain from Redguard could mean an extra weapon damage enchant somewhere.

Mesite · May 11

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Mesite wrote: »

While I've resisted mixing up racial passives in the past, I'm getting bored with using the same races for new characters now. I have a Redguard who wants to be out doing dungeons too but he hasn't left his house for a few years.

My main is a redguard from nearly ten years ago. I still play her. My impression is that if you play with item enchants, you can make up the differences.

I haven't even looked at the racial stats for a while, but the extra sustain from Redguard could mean an extra weapon damage enchant somewhere.

My Redguard isn't the most handsome of my characters, another reason he stays at home. But he's better looking than my Dunmer who gets to travel Tamriel righting wrongs, with both magicka and stamina bonuses while resisting fire. Life is so unfair.

But I agree, you're right about different bonuses coming from different sources.

mrreow · May 11

Races having set passives and skills is extremely problematic concept and I am surprised such a big and responsible company still haven’t made a right choice.

What’s next? Agrarian bonus for Argonians?

Soarora · May 11

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

I would like to have the strongest possible dps, heal and tanking builds on the same character.
I would also like to have a character's racial background for role-playing reasons rather than being forced to play Dark Elf for my dps, Nord/Imperial for tank etc.
This would also fix the problem right now with no one playing Redguard or Breton in PvE outside of role-playing.

There's zero precedent for this in the lore of the series. There's a book in Skyrim that explains how it works.

To be fair, there are in fact individuals of mixed race in TES. In fact, I recall UESP putting together a page dedicated to all the known mixed-race individuals. The book in Skyrim is a debated topic. I have heard arguments ranging from "it's in the game therefore it's lore" to "this is Bethesda trying to explain away not having interracial people in the games". My personal view is that this is just one book with an author we have no background information on aside from being affiliated with the Imperial University. Thus, the book very well could be propaganda or biased by the author(s) view of race. After all, if you read it, you'll see that that they are very obviously biased against Orcs even though OrisMER are regular elves.

zaria · May 11

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

I would like to have the strongest possible dps, heal and tanking builds on the same character.
I would also like to have a character's racial background for role-playing reasons rather than being forced to play Dark Elf for my dps, Nord/Imperial for tank etc.
This would also fix the problem right now with no one playing Redguard or Breton in PvE outside of role-playing.

My main DPS for PVE is a Breton. Thus your claim that no one does isn't exactly true. Please avoid blanket statements that are unverified,

If ZOS were to remove racial passives it's possible that they would just remove them entirely and make it cosmetic, and not replace them at all, same applies with mundus stones. These are TES carryovers and traditions, i would hate to see them change, but it would tone down the power creep we are about to get.

With subclassing likely allowing some OP builds racial passives are going to be insignificant anyways, which means they won't matter. At a certain point diminishing returns kick in.

Honestly, if I were zos I would start to implement game mechanics that would kick in during PVE content if the group is over optimized.

it was some tests back then racial powers was changed, Difference was around 3% on worst possible race like an bosmer magic dps vs best race on an 100k dps parse. Hybridization has likely reduced this.

Malyore · May 12

Fa-huit-nen: "Behold. Vile monstrosities!"

My Argonian/Khajiit/Dunmer subrace: 😢

AlterBlika · May 12

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

This would also fix the problem right now with no one playing Redguard or Breton in PvE outside of role-playing.

Sustain races are literally bis for soloing hard content. You never want to waste a set on sustain there.
So it isn't exactly true that they are only used for role playing.

Hapexamendios · May 12

So would my creation be a Khagonian or an Arjiit?

Carcamongus · May 12

My dream of turning my toon into Frankenstein's monster would finally come to fruition.

JinKC98 · May 12

Calm down, Arkasis!

Maitsukas · May 12

Carcamongus wrote: »

My dream of turning my toon into Frankenstein's monster would finally come to fruition.

BXR_Lonestar · May 12

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

I would like to have the strongest possible dps, heal and tanking builds on the same character.
I would also like to have a character's racial background for role-playing reasons rather than being forced to play Dark Elf for my dps, Nord/Imperial for tank etc.
This would also fix the problem right now with no one playing Redguard or Breton in PvE outside of role-playing.

See, I knew this request was coming. It was a logical step once you eliminate any difference in classes, the only difference in character performance will be race, and people would be asking to eliminate racial differences.

IMO, these are the wrong steps for this game to take (subclassing, and then eliminating differences in race such that it makes no difference). This game was NOT meant to be played with only one character. That is why we have up to 20 different character slots, and have multiple armory slots (I don't even know the limit because I haven't hit one yet). This game isn't meant to be like Oblivion or Skyrim where you just play ONE character all the way through to the end, but you can change "roles" or "classes" by varying your playstyle and gear.

But even in THOSE games, there are differences in racial passives, and so this is something they should definitely not change IMO. I think the game is fine as is. It is not difficult to level up an alternative character. And your inventory space won't support carrying around different sets to DPS, Tank AND heal at a high level anyways. I know this from experience with my tanks and healers.

Mesite · May 12

I've said it before - it makes no sense to have Argonians look so cool but have underwhelming passives.

We should be saying 'Come play this game, its the only.place you can play as a cool Lizard man.' but actually we say 'Come and play this game, its the only game with lizard men - but don't play as a lizard man because they aren't the best.'

Missed opportunity.

Renato90085 · May 12

My all character is khajiit,and I use them done all thing,differences can actually be ignored.
like last month I met a Argonians arc in pug vka,he better than group other dark elf arc,or like my friend use khajiit Stam nb done Dsr trifectas this patch
But I support Redguard need some love...

cyberjanet · May 12

Actually, what I would like is subdungeons. So I can use the Totem of Truth from Oathsworn Pit in Shipwright's Regret.

Orbital78 · May 12

Mesite wrote: »

I've said it before - it makes no sense to have Argonians look so cool but have underwhelming passives.

They look great with the highest FPS in the game and have the best passive in the game.

I want my mommy to be a lusty Argonian and my daddy to be a suave Dunmer, Argonian Half-elf character creation options right meow!

QB1 · May 13

I think it would be pretty sweet to pick your own passives. Could be similar to subclassing where you have to keep at least one of your race skills, can swap out the others.

Redguards_Revenge · May 13

Renato90085 wrote: »

My all character is khajiit,and I use them done all thing,differences can actually be ignored.
like last month I met a Argonians arc in pug vka,he better than group other dark elf arc,or like my friend use khajiit Stam nb done Dsr trifectas this patch
But I support Redguard need some love...

Rofl, I log in sometimes and wonder what I am even doing in the game...