Subclassing needs THIS applied to it

AvidNecro · May 10

In order for subclassing to make any sense... There needs to be a strict role attached to each class skill line... Damage...Healing... Tank. Every player, no matter what class, should only be allowed to have one of each category, and their own class skill lines should have those roles attached to them.

Example: Gravelord (Damage) Bone tyrant (Tank) Living Death (Healing).

Each player can only have ONE of each category... This honestly makes the most sense and I cant believe that its not implemented into the current PTS for subclassing. You want to sub class? Fine! swap out your damage skill line for another classes damage skill line. Dont like the healing skill line for your class? Pick up the templars Restoring Light skill line, or the Wardens Green Balance. You dont like the Necro damage skill line Gravelord damaging skill line? Then slap on the Nightblades assassination damaging skill line. Literally makes no sense to be able to stack 3 damaging skill lines, 3 tanking skill lines or 3 healing skill lines on one character.

My opinion can be wrong and thats totally okay, but without this theory, then subclassing is just as bad as adding a heal to hardened ward.

Renato90085 · May 10

main problem is base class (sorc dk temp nb) have all role skill in 1 skill line..
like nb dot Twisting Path and Dark Shade in shadow, Debilitate and Power Extraction in Siphoning
and dps good passive,Catalyst/Magicka Flood in Siphoning too
nb healer use dps /tank skil give buff too, Lotus Fan,Concealed Weapon kite healer,Relentless Focus rojo...etc

Tommy_The_Gun · May 10

I think it is a good point. You have 3 skill lines. DPS, Tank, Healer. It would be fair to make it possible to only replace DPS kills line with other class DPS skill line and not have 3 different DPS skill lines on one class, as Passives do stack. Same for Tank & Healer. Otherwise it will be broken.

So for example: If you pick NB class as your main, you can only replace Assassination skill tree with Aedric Spear for example and not have both at the same time etc.

Soarora · May 10

Yes, having 3 dps lines is a major problem that’s causing the power creep, making it so that monoclass cannot keep up because they have “unuseful” passives.

BattleAxe · May 10

The problem here is the base classes are not clear cut in each skill line like the dlc ones and even the dlc ones are not totally clear cut it’s easier to distinguish with dlc classes but still muddy.

Secondly why bother subclassing then if u can only do direct replacement dps for dps and so on wanna turn this update instantly stale push that idea of direct line change then subclassing will be dead in the water.

Been on this game since console launch and my enthusiasm for game has ebbed and flowed like the tide where until this announced update I’d only log in to do dailies to not fall to far behind updates. With this update I’m excited to return to more regular play and enjoy the game in its new state. But I digress I’m only 1 player in a large pool. However it’s a pretty safe bet anyone in a similar mindset as me who has kept up with this game even if they don’t login as much is likely as excited or more so than me. Which will likely lead to a flood of returning players who are ready to rejoin the game.

Gilvoth · May 10

i want the freedom to choose anything i want to do and not FORCED into someone else personal idea of what i am supposed to do ingame, as i play a game i paid real life money to enjoy and do whatever i want to do in with my time.
you want to FORCE yourself into those rolls then go ahead, please leave the rest of us out of that.

freedom to play how i want to play and do what ever i want to ingame is exactly what elderscrolls online is advertised as ... but you want that removed?

Maggusemm · May 10

there is a feedback thread for subclassing. Why open a new one?

ADarklore · May 10

As others have said, only the last THREE classes have a separation of DPS, Tank and Healer... the original six DO NOT. So for your idea to work, they'd have to completely revamp the original six classes, and that would probably turn out worse than subclassing.

Erickson9610 · May 11

ADarklore wrote: »

As others have said, only the last THREE classes have a separation of DPS, Tank and Healer... the original six DO NOT. So for your idea to work, they'd have to completely revamp the original six classes, and that would probably turn out worse than subclassing.

Another thing is that Warden is the only Class with three wildly different themes in each of its skill lines — people want ice magic to be useful for both damage dealing and for tanking, so Winter's Embrace would be locked into being a tank skill line, removing the last bit of ice-themed magic from Class abilities, which would not go over well.

Everyone is getting nerfed to support Subclassing, but that's okay. It'll take a while to get the balance in a desirable position, but we'll be better off for it. Reframing what a Class in ESO even is will probably be the most significant change in recent years, so I expect Subclasses will feel as natural as the highly specific original Classes. We don't have unique names for each Subclass combination, but I've seen some people share Subclassing builds with custom Class names and those custom Classes look awesome.

Artim_X · May 11

I disagree and like others have said, the old skill-lines were not designed like that. I can build for damage as a pure pet sorcerer or pure storm calling lightning sorcerer. I can also be pure damage with templar aedric spear and not be focused on tanking.

ESO_Nightingale · May 11

Erickson9610 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

As others have said, only the last THREE classes have a separation of DPS, Tank and Healer... the original six DO NOT. So for your idea to work, they'd have to completely revamp the original six classes, and that would probably turn out worse than subclassing.

Another thing is that Warden is the only Class with three wildly different themes in each of its skill lines — people want ice magic to be useful for both damage dealing and for tanking, so Winter's Embrace would be locked into being a tank skill line, removing the last bit of ice-themed magic from Class abilities, which would not go over well.

Everyone is getting nerfed to support Subclassing, but that's okay. It'll take a while to get the balance in a desirable position, but we'll be better off for it. Reframing what a Class in ESO even is will probably be the most significant change in recent years, so I expect Subclasses will feel as natural as the highly specific original Classes. We don't have unique names for each Subclass combination, but I've seen some people share Subclassing builds with custom Class names and those custom Classes look awesome.

I would not go gentley into that good night if they removed frost dps stuff from winter's embrace.

ForumBully · May 11

Everyone is certainly free to limit themselves however they see fit.

Renato90085 · May 11

if you only want stop big subclassing power creep i think only way is change arcanist and necromancer skill line like base class line work,and all class move pen/crit dmg passive leave go tank/healer line and remove skill require
becasue power creep from dps line passive/dmg buff Stack,in live i solo dsr bridge have 8k pen,115+crit dmg(nb khajiit)
but in pts, anyclass any race can easy have 100% time have full pen and crit dmg/other class dmg buff if they use new meta build
but this will hunt arc and necro player again

sans-culottes · May 11

Maggusemm wrote: »

there is a feedback thread for subclassing. Why open a new one?

Appreciate the concern, but let’s resist the urge to play moderator. Multiple threads often approach the same topic from different angles, and this one raises distinct points about design direction and system coherence. If it’s redundant, then the actual moderators will handle it.

AvidNecro · May 11

Gilvoth wrote: »

i want the freedom to choose anything i want to do and not FORCED into someone else personal idea of what i am supposed to do ingame, as i play a game i paid real life money to enjoy and do whatever i want to do in with my time.
you want to FORCE yourself into those rolls then go ahead, please leave the rest of us out of that.

freedom to play how i want to play and do what ever i want to ingame is exactly what elderscrolls online is advertised as ... but you want that removed?

My biggest complaint I guess, which leads to the reasoning behind this thread, is it just feels like either subclass or bust. What’s the benefit or reward for keeping all your class skill lines. It almost feels like you would always be at a disadvantage if you choose to stay a purebred vs the benefit of subclass. To me the whole “pLaY hOw YoU wAnT” ideology goes out the window because you’re almost forced to do it or you can’t compete. So to all the clowns that keep saying you contradict yourself.

SolarRune · May 11

I was of the opinion they should make all be separated into separate lines of healing, tanking and DD - but having listen to skinny suggest it I do wonder if spreading between the different lines is actually better.

It allows subclassing to be able to access particular skills they may want but that there is a draw back as things may not be as balanced, and means someone not subclassing gets a natural advantage from the synergy of all native skill lines being retained.

I'm still on the fence as to which is best, but what is certain is that having some classes setup one way and other classes setup differently is not right.

BattleAxe · May 11

Erickson9610 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

As others have said, only the last THREE classes have a separation of DPS, Tank and Healer... the original six DO NOT. So for your idea to work, they'd have to completely revamp the original six classes, and that would probably turn out worse than subclassing.

Another thing is that Warden is the only Class with three wildly different themes in each of its skill lines — people want ice magic to be useful for both damage dealing and for tanking, so Winter's Embrace would be locked into being a tank skill line, removing the last bit of ice-themed magic from Class abilities, which would not go over well.

Everyone is getting nerfed to support Subclassing, but that's okay. It'll take a while to get the balance in a desirable position, but we'll be better off for it. Reframing what a Class in ESO even is will probably be the most significant change in recent years, so I expect Subclasses will feel as natural as the highly specific original Classes. We don't have unique names for each Subclass combination, but I've seen some people share Subclassing builds with custom Class names and those custom Classes look awesome.

Agreed I have a build in mind called the arcane death knight I think u can figure the 3 classes being utilized for this build and in theory this will be a dot focused build using the dk, necro, and arcanist. Majority of the damage will be coming from the dks skills with necro and arcanist skills added for some flavor. And actually this build doesn’t kill my base classes identity but actually builds upon the base classes identity

Rungar · May 11

SolarRune wrote: »

I was of the opinion they should make all be separated into separate lines of healing, tanking and DD - but having listen to skinny suggest it I do wonder if spreading between the different lines is actually better.

It allows subclassing to be able to access particular skills they may want but that there is a draw back as things may not be as balanced, and means someone not subclassing gets a natural advantage from the synergy of all native skill lines being retained.

I'm still on the fence as to which is best, but what is certain is that having some classes setup one way and other classes setup differently is not right.

It might actually be better just the way it is because you now have access to a few dedicated lines but also access to mishmash lines from the original classes.