Tandor wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

Edit for a sentence that didn't make sense and to add this: this is why I kinda chuckle when I see an argument that starts with X type of player is only 1% of the player base so they should really be listening to Y player. Look at all these players who do so many different things. It would be hard to fit them into a specific niche.

To be fair, I don't think people really say that those who do trials are only 1% of the playerbase, rather that trials are only 1% of the game's activities, a point they make in arguing with the notion (if and when it is made) that game balance should weigh in favour of trials. This would, I suspect, be borne out by the data logs in terms of how many players are actively in a trial at any one time compared to those doing other things. Of course we shall never know for sure as those data logs will not be revealed !

I also recall from other games that there is a general perception that those who do trials - whether as their main, only. or occasional activity - are usually about 10% of a game's playerbase, but where that comes from exactly I've no idea. I'd certainly believe the notion that it is a very niche activity given the breadth of most MMOs' activities.

While I wasn't being specific about trials, what you said is what I had in mind mainly. This whole 1% or 10% raid so you shouldn't be listened to is something I've heard for, God I'm old, almost 20 years now. It's not just that though, it's any subsection of players that others shout down. Pvp, for instance. Roleplay folks, etc. So many of us don't just for in one category. As far as game balance, and who should be heard, brother let's not open that can of worms lol. Good points though.

twisttop138 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

Edit for a sentence that didn't make sense and to add this: this is why I kinda chuckle when I see an argument that starts with X type of player is only 1% of the player base so they should really be listening to Y player. Look at all these players who do so many different things. It would be hard to fit them into a specific niche.

To be fair, I don't think people really say that those who do trials are only 1% of the playerbase, rather that trials are only 1% of the game's activities, a point they make in arguing with the notion (if and when it is made) that game balance should weigh in favour of trials. This would, I suspect, be borne out by the data logs in terms of how many players are actively in a trial at any one time compared to those doing other things. Of course we shall never know for sure as those data logs will not be revealed !

I also recall from other games that there is a general perception that those who do trials - whether as their main, only. or occasional activity - are usually about 10% of a game's playerbase, but where that comes from exactly I've no idea. I'd certainly believe the notion that it is a very niche activity given the breadth of most MMOs' activities.

While I wasn't being specific about trials, what you said is what I had in mind mainly. This whole 1% or 10% raid so you shouldn't be listened to is something I've heard for, God I'm old, almost 20 years now. It's not just that though, it's any subsection of players that others shout down. Pvp, for instance. Roleplay folks, etc. So many of us don't just for in one category. As far as game balance, and who should be heard, brother let's not open that can of worms lol. Good points though.

I can tell you right now, looking at Xbox achievements, Asylum Sanctorum Completed in Normal by 0.50% of players. Halls of Fabrication Completed in Normal by 0.45% of players. Sanity's Edge Completed in Normal by 0.16% of players.
Xbox counts anyone who booted the game as player, and ESO is basically free with any tier of GamePass.

SkaiFaith wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

Edit for a sentence that didn't make sense and to add this: this is why I kinda chuckle when I see an argument that starts with X type of player is only 1% of the player base so they should really be listening to Y player. Look at all these players who do so many different things. It would be hard to fit them into a specific niche.

To be fair, I don't think people really say that those who do trials are only 1% of the playerbase, rather that trials are only 1% of the game's activities, a point they make in arguing with the notion (if and when it is made) that game balance should weigh in favour of trials. This would, I suspect, be borne out by the data logs in terms of how many players are actively in a trial at any one time compared to those doing other things. Of course we shall never know for sure as those data logs will not be revealed !

I also recall from other games that there is a general perception that those who do trials - whether as their main, only. or occasional activity - are usually about 10% of a game's playerbase, but where that comes from exactly I've no idea. I'd certainly believe the notion that it is a very niche activity given the breadth of most MMOs' activities.

While I wasn't being specific about trials, what you said is what I had in mind mainly. This whole 1% or 10% raid so you shouldn't be listened to is something I've heard for, God I'm old, almost 20 years now. It's not just that though, it's any subsection of players that others shout down. Pvp, for instance. Roleplay folks, etc. So many of us don't just for in one category. As far as game balance, and who should be heard, brother let's not open that can of worms lol. Good points though.

I can tell you right now, looking at Xbox achievements, Asylum Sanctorum Completed in Normal by 0.50% of players. Halls of Fabrication Completed in Normal by 0.45% of players. Sanity's Edge Completed in Normal by 0.16% of players.
Xbox counts anyone who booted the game as player, and ESO is basically free with any tier of GamePass.

It's pretty obvious from the achievement stats that a lot of people tried the base game 'because it was free and Skyrim-with-friends!', and bounced off it pretty quickly. That's probably true of a lot of games that are either GamePass titles or were on a 'free-to-play' promo for a week or weekend. It does skew the achievement stats something awful, though!

Basically making all my characters into full blown self-sustaining characters, maxing everything, including excavation/research/unlocking skilllines/completing zones/etc.

My main approach to the game is to just relax and have fun. Questing all my characters through the main alliances, and then all the DLC's one by one. Just doing what I want to do. Sometimes that is questing, sometimes that is the event, sometimes that is just nothing, sometimes that is running dungeons, sometimes that is IA, sometimes helping someone in zone chat, etc.

I just do what I feel like at that time.

PS: Used to run the IA daily, but there is now too much FOMO stuff to be able to do that anymore.

sans-culottes wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Personally... I quest, run dolmens, level alts. Basically, I play ESO as intended- as 'Skyrim with friends' albeit without the 'friends'.

This is an interesting claim, especially given that ESO is an MMORPG by genre and by design. Not a single-player game with optional grouping, but a networked world built around persistent systems of cooperation, competition, and class synergy.

The “Skyrim with friends” marketing line was a hook, not a mission statement. To claim solo dolmen grinding represents the intended core experience while brushing aside group content, faction systems, and balance concerns isn’t just reductive. It’s revisionist.

If anything, then subclassing accelerates this flattening. It allows one to pretend that choices made for a multiplayer framework were always meant to serve a private sandbox. But pretending ESO was built to be a solo playground doesn’t make it true. It just makes the contradictions more visible.

Anything in life 10 years into is very different from its start. Holding on to what it was so long ago doesn't make much sense. Today ESO is very different from its birth, and 10 years from now it could become a taxi driver simulator for what I know.
We'll see where devs will lead the game and we'll adapt or we'll leave - no reason to claim "ESO is this", "ESO is that", since everything changes; the whole MMO genre has changed and will continue to do so.

Vet HM / Tri trials prog
Dungeon tri group
Bit of housing & maintaining guild house
Some cyrodil
Helping people farm bits they need
IA
Sometimes running laps for hours in my house or some city whilst in party chatting away.

LootAllTheStuff wrote: »

It's pretty obvious from the achievement stats that a lot of people tried the base game 'because it was free and Skyrim-with-friends!', and bounced off it pretty quickly. That's probably true of a lot of games that are either GamePass titles or were on a 'free-to-play' promo for a week or weekend. It does skew the achievement stats something awful, though!

Everything is skewed anyway as while we see how many people have completed something, we don't know their motivations. I know people often do things they actually don't care for much to get the reward. I've seen countless complaints in this forum about this thing; everything from group content people who don't enjoy questing or overland, but have to do it to get the antiquity lead for a mythic they want, to housing people who don't enjoy group content, but have to run some dungeons or even trials, because the reward is a housing item they need for one of their projects. So just because something has been completed, it doesn't mean the person is interested in it or enjoyed it.

i love this thread.
very interesting and i like it.

Because it was so addicting in the MMO Rift, I have brought my own version of Manugo to ESO in regards to Champion Points. The numbers keep going UP!

Housing, sightseeing when it's cold and rainy outside, the activities that supplement housing, and tales of tribute. I have one character so, in these climes, I guess I'd be classed as niche. But at the end of the day I don't *want* to be too heavily invested in a video game, because that's time I'll never get back, so my end game is just using the game to relax from time to time and uninstalling it whenever I feel I'm getting addicted / whenever I get sick to death of the guild trader system and not being able to sell stuff properly without joining a guild so having to do everything the hard way (which is frequently).

Aside from the little daily tasks (daily crafting, endeavors, etc.) I hunt leads. I hate that they are so hard to find, I find it so unfair. I have completed 80% of the codexes, but I find it almost impossible to complete 100%. I don't know why we can't complete the codexes, it seems bad to me. The antiquities system is quite old now, it's not a novelty anymore, it's about time that the percentage of leads dropped was higher, especially in the DLC areas.
And so yes, lately I'm a bit bored, because I can't get what I want. So I've been playing other games at the same time, with satisfaction, I must say.

I completed the Golden Pursuit a couple of days ago, so now it's Infinite Archive with my tank companion every day if I have the mood and some repeatable crafting quests but on my main and on another character only, plus the daily login on my second account.

That's it. Takes me 1 hour and a half maybie a day. Hopefully I am stacking enough archival fortunes for the next style pages for when I won't do IA next weeks, those that cost 15 000 fortunes yes these ones, as I have already collected the class style pages, and it took me several months!

Cheers

When they launched Infinite Archive they showed data about it after a month. It would have been nice to see similar data shown after House Tour release - would be fun to see how many hours the playerbase spend just inside homes XD

sans-culottes wrote: »

gc0018 wrote: »

"I often see people on forums say that veteran PvE content and PvP only interest a tiny portion of the player base"

Asking right or wrong first before asking why.

Most of the recent MMO game, only 2-5% of the player pays for the game and most of the paid player takes up 70-90% game time. These data are publicly researched and published. Using AI academic search tool, you can find the papers & abstract without being a graduate student / researcher easily.

It suggests the veteran PvE content and PvP (including prepared for the activity) may not be "a tiny portion", but a decent group of active players.

Exactly. The “1% myth” gets trotted out every time someone wants to dismiss feedback that threatens their preferred solo routine. But it’s projection, not data. It’s an attempt to universalize their own disengagement while ignoring that the players putting in the most hours—and, often, the most money—are the ones engaging with veteran PvE and PvP. That’s not elitism. It’s just how engagement works.

Preface... I have no vested interests in how people play the game, whether they solo or group, or whether they are doing veteran dungeons, PVP, or just collecting butterflies. I am happy with people logging into the game and doing whatever they want while they are logged in.

That said, I also try to be realistic about what I think people are doing. We can look to achievement aggregations to see how many players are completing certain end-game achievements. Investigation will find veteran achievements have been completed by so few people that they round to zero.

Additionally, I hesitate to lump ESO in with a lot of other MMO games and academic papers are pretty much worthless unless they are studying ESO. This game has proven, a couple times over, that it stands separate from the average MMO in design and mix of players. This game has a serious and dedicated contingent that does not do 'competitive' group play. The game has evolved accordingly, further distancing itself from other MMOs.

A couple of years ago I was fairly sure that ESO Plus was used by the overwhelming majority of active players. A lot of players were paying while playing, and not just Chapters and Crowns to buy Crown Crates. ESO Plus does not appear to equate to end-game PVE or PVP participation. Just because a lot of players may have it does not mean that a lot of players are spending time in Cyrodiil or queuing for a lot of veteran dungeons. Financial participation in the game does not feel like an indicator of anything other than someone playing the game.

A series of complaints a couple years back suggests that some players don't want ESO Plus because the DLC dungeons come up in the random rotation and they take too long to do. This indicates that some players may be actively avoiding certain veteran PVE situations while participating in other veteran activities. Time, possibly due to difficulty (wipes), seems to be the issue.

Anyway, no one knows how many players are doing what in this game, outside of ZOS, and they are unlikely to share. My gut tells me that veteran end-game and serious Cyrodiil PVP are single digit populations. This is not because I want players to do my preferred play. It is because I honestly feel that is an appropriate guess.

Why do players not do content? Lack of rewarding rewards that bring players back after they get whatever it is they were looking for in the first place.

I recently did fishing for the Golden Pursuit and was reminded that the boring activity has appropriately boring rewards. (I am a master angler by the way.) This is pretty much the entire game. Lots of grind for a few table scraps and old bread crumbs.

I like how the thread showcases actually how much variety of activities there are in the game and how people do all sorts of different things. I see much of the same thing reflected across my guilds; people participate in a lot of different content, and also do niche things unique to them, which I think is awesome. I definitely think endgame PvE and PvP are popular activities: I 'pug' a lot of dungeons and trials and even in old content, like vCrags, there's a variety of players, from newbies farming gear to vets getting their coffers, filling their stickerbooks or just helping others. I also run a lot of BGs and play in Cyro, and while there you do tend to see more regulars, I think they make a bigger chunk of the playerbase than the forum crowd estimates, and they are also some of the most invested players in the game as well.

As for me, I enjoy almost all activities in ESO, it depends on what I feel like doing at any given time. My favourite activity probably has to be group dungeons and trials, but I also like to run solo content; for eg., back in the vMA/vVH days doing all achievements on all class specs, and so on, and now I like to run IA. I also try to solo veteran group content sometimes. PvP is my next favourite thing, especially overland Cyro and BGs, and I spend a lot of time there as well. I go through housing phases, where I get completely focused on a build until it's done, and I like collecting furnishings, doing tours, and all the housing-related things. I also like to play ToT with the NPCs, so I do that from time to time as well. I have spells where I pick a zone with a nice landscape and go on a farming node spree, or I do some thieving. Besides prescribed activities and questing on my main character, I think I've spent the most time building my alt characters, leveling and gearing them. The things I like doing the least are daily writs, farming WB/delve/incursion dailies, antiquities, and fishing, though I still do these things when I need to get materials, achievements or event collectibles. Finally, I don't do a lot of trading, and I've never really RPed, besides having a basic backstory for some of my toons or creating outfits.