What do 99% of players actually do?

joergino · May 6

Do daily writs, log out, play GW2

twisttop138 · May 6

Tandor wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

Edit for a sentence that didn't make sense and to add this: this is why I kinda chuckle when I see an argument that starts with X type of player is only 1% of the player base so they should really be listening to Y player. Look at all these players who do so many different things. It would be hard to fit them into a specific niche.

To be fair, I don't think people really say that those who do trials are only 1% of the playerbase, rather that trials are only 1% of the game's activities, a point they make in arguing with the notion (if and when it is made) that game balance should weigh in favour of trials. This would, I suspect, be borne out by the data logs in terms of how many players are actively in a trial at any one time compared to those doing other things. Of course we shall never know for sure as those data logs will not be revealed !

I also recall from other games that there is a general perception that those who do trials - whether as their main, only. or occasional activity - are usually about 10% of a game's playerbase, but where that comes from exactly I've no idea. I'd certainly believe the notion that it is a very niche activity given the breadth of most MMOs' activities.

While I wasn't being specific about trials, what you said is what I had in mind mainly. This whole 1% or 10% raid so you shouldn't be listened to is something I've heard for, God I'm old, almost 20 years now. It's not just that though, it's any subsection of players that others shout down. Pvp, for instance. Roleplay folks, etc. So many of us don't just for in one category. As far as game balance, and who should be heard, brother let's not open that can of worms lol. Good points though.

SkaiFaith · May 6

LootAllTheStuff wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

LootAllTheStuff wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I would assume the majority of players are casuals who treat it like a TES game. Their goal isn't to fill out the map. It's to make a guy that works with their idea e.g. this character is a Khajiit sneak thief with a bow, and then they do the quests they feel makes the most sense for that character. Wash, rinse, repeat. Most of these people aren't even in guilds or doing group content. They don't play a lot. They certainly don't post here.

I resemble the "play it like Skyrim" mode, but I do indeed work to fill out the map. I want the story! Also, I find whacking things with swords (digital ones) quite therapeutic. I play daily, and I post here. So I guess I'm the exception that proves the rule?

Yeah. There's always some on a forum. But in general forums in any video game tends to skew towards power users. This isn't a reference to skill like if we were talking about gameplay. I mean users who are more invested in the game than others, regardless of the type of content the game has and player uses.

So, you being the fill out the map type would be more investment than other Skyrim-like players, for example. One data point you can use to see what I mean is the percentage of players who get the trophies on PSN/Xbox for filling out the map. It's pretty low, even with the caveat that all games have somewhat lower than you'd think PSN trophy data because they count anyone who boots the game up as a player.

You got me curious, so I'm just looking at the XBox achievements right now. I seem to have a lot that are in the "<1% of players have this achievement" category! Fighters Guild main quest is 4.05% completion, Mage's guild is 3.08%, main story is 4.26%, and Alliance Recruit 7.37%. Like a lot of games, completion rates on the main story seem to drop off exponentially - for Chapter 1 it's >40%! Curiously, twice as many players have successfully fled from a guard as become an Alliance Recruit...

One achievement I was surprised by the low percentage is "a stage for two" in Infinite Archive - it's base game stuff now and an extremely easy one, but still...
Well, FC25 has an achievement for playing 5 online matches with friends and it's "rare" - nobody had done that either.
The question of this post seems definitely legit: what do players do after starting a game? XD
I know a couple who tried Skyrim and immediately quit when they were taken to jail for killing a chicken, but in ESO you can also find players below level 50 with achievements for Vet DLC dungeons, so...

SkaiFaith · May 6

twisttop138 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

Edit for a sentence that didn't make sense and to add this: this is why I kinda chuckle when I see an argument that starts with X type of player is only 1% of the player base so they should really be listening to Y player. Look at all these players who do so many different things. It would be hard to fit them into a specific niche.

To be fair, I don't think people really say that those who do trials are only 1% of the playerbase, rather that trials are only 1% of the game's activities, a point they make in arguing with the notion (if and when it is made) that game balance should weigh in favour of trials. This would, I suspect, be borne out by the data logs in terms of how many players are actively in a trial at any one time compared to those doing other things. Of course we shall never know for sure as those data logs will not be revealed !

I also recall from other games that there is a general perception that those who do trials - whether as their main, only. or occasional activity - are usually about 10% of a game's playerbase, but where that comes from exactly I've no idea. I'd certainly believe the notion that it is a very niche activity given the breadth of most MMOs' activities.

While I wasn't being specific about trials, what you said is what I had in mind mainly. This whole 1% or 10% raid so you shouldn't be listened to is something I've heard for, God I'm old, almost 20 years now. It's not just that though, it's any subsection of players that others shout down. Pvp, for instance. Roleplay folks, etc. So many of us don't just for in one category. As far as game balance, and who should be heard, brother let's not open that can of worms lol. Good points though.

I can tell you right now, looking at Xbox achievements, Asylum Sanctorum Completed in Normal by 0.50% of players. Halls of Fabrication Completed in Normal by 0.45% of players. Sanity's Edge Completed in Normal by 0.16% of players.
Xbox counts anyone who booted the game as player, and ESO is basically free with any tier of GamePass.

Sinlar · May 6

This one likes to play some tribute and contemplate meta-magi-phorical theories.
And murder of -those what deserve it- of course.
"All hail the great target painter."

LootAllTheStuff · May 6

SkaiFaith wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

Edit for a sentence that didn't make sense and to add this: this is why I kinda chuckle when I see an argument that starts with X type of player is only 1% of the player base so they should really be listening to Y player. Look at all these players who do so many different things. It would be hard to fit them into a specific niche.

To be fair, I don't think people really say that those who do trials are only 1% of the playerbase, rather that trials are only 1% of the game's activities, a point they make in arguing with the notion (if and when it is made) that game balance should weigh in favour of trials. This would, I suspect, be borne out by the data logs in terms of how many players are actively in a trial at any one time compared to those doing other things. Of course we shall never know for sure as those data logs will not be revealed !

I also recall from other games that there is a general perception that those who do trials - whether as their main, only. or occasional activity - are usually about 10% of a game's playerbase, but where that comes from exactly I've no idea. I'd certainly believe the notion that it is a very niche activity given the breadth of most MMOs' activities.

While I wasn't being specific about trials, what you said is what I had in mind mainly. This whole 1% or 10% raid so you shouldn't be listened to is something I've heard for, God I'm old, almost 20 years now. It's not just that though, it's any subsection of players that others shout down. Pvp, for instance. Roleplay folks, etc. So many of us don't just for in one category. As far as game balance, and who should be heard, brother let's not open that can of worms lol. Good points though.

I can tell you right now, looking at Xbox achievements, Asylum Sanctorum Completed in Normal by 0.50% of players. Halls of Fabrication Completed in Normal by 0.45% of players. Sanity's Edge Completed in Normal by 0.16% of players.
Xbox counts anyone who booted the game as player, and ESO is basically free with any tier of GamePass.

It's pretty obvious from the achievement stats that a lot of people tried the base game 'because it was free and Skyrim-with-friends!', and bounced off it pretty quickly. That's probably true of a lot of games that are either GamePass titles or were on a 'free-to-play' promo for a week or weekend. It does skew the achievement stats something awful, though!

ADarklore · May 7

Personally... I quest, run dolmens, level alts. Basically, I play ESO as intended- as 'Skyrim with friends' albeit without the 'friends'.

Sarannah · May 7

Basically making all my characters into full blown self-sustaining characters, maxing everything, including excavation/research/unlocking skilllines/completing zones/etc.

My main approach to the game is to just relax and have fun. Questing all my characters through the main alliances, and then all the DLC's one by one. Just doing what I want to do. Sometimes that is questing, sometimes that is the event, sometimes that is just nothing, sometimes that is running dungeons, sometimes that is IA, sometimes helping someone in zone chat, etc.

I just do what I feel like at that time.

PS: Used to run the IA daily, but there is now too much FOMO stuff to be able to do that anymore.

sans-culottes · May 7

ADarklore wrote: »

Personally... I quest, run dolmens, level alts. Basically, I play ESO as intended- as 'Skyrim with friends' albeit without the 'friends'.

This is an interesting claim, especially given that ESO is an MMORPG by genre and by design. Not a single-player game with optional grouping, but a networked world built around persistent systems of cooperation, competition, and class synergy.

The “Skyrim with friends” marketing line was a hook, not a mission statement. To claim solo dolmen grinding represents the intended core experience while brushing aside group content, faction systems, and balance concerns isn’t just reductive. It’s revisionist.

If anything, then subclassing accelerates this flattening. It allows one to pretend that choices made for a multiplayer framework were always meant to serve a private sandbox. But pretending ESO was built to be a solo playground doesn’t make it true. It just makes the contradictions more visible.

SkaiFaith · May 7

sans-culottes wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Personally... I quest, run dolmens, level alts. Basically, I play ESO as intended- as 'Skyrim with friends' albeit without the 'friends'.

This is an interesting claim, especially given that ESO is an MMORPG by genre and by design. Not a single-player game with optional grouping, but a networked world built around persistent systems of cooperation, competition, and class synergy.

The “Skyrim with friends” marketing line was a hook, not a mission statement. To claim solo dolmen grinding represents the intended core experience while brushing aside group content, faction systems, and balance concerns isn’t just reductive. It’s revisionist.

If anything, then subclassing accelerates this flattening. It allows one to pretend that choices made for a multiplayer framework were always meant to serve a private sandbox. But pretending ESO was built to be a solo playground doesn’t make it true. It just makes the contradictions more visible.

Anything in life 10 years into is very different from its start. Holding on to what it was so long ago doesn't make much sense. Today ESO is very different from its birth, and 10 years from now it could become a taxi driver simulator for what I know.
We'll see where devs will lead the game and we'll adapt or we'll leave - no reason to claim "ESO is this", "ESO is that", since everything changes; the whole MMO genre has changed and will continue to do so.

Pixiepumpkin · May 7

SkaiFaith wrote: »

sans-culottes wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Personally... I quest, run dolmens, level alts. Basically, I play ESO as intended- as 'Skyrim with friends' albeit without the 'friends'.

This is an interesting claim, especially given that ESO is an MMORPG by genre and by design. Not a single-player game with optional grouping, but a networked world built around persistent systems of cooperation, competition, and class synergy.

The “Skyrim with friends” marketing line was a hook, not a mission statement. To claim solo dolmen grinding represents the intended core experience while brushing aside group content, faction systems, and balance concerns isn’t just reductive. It’s revisionist.

If anything, then subclassing accelerates this flattening. It allows one to pretend that choices made for a multiplayer framework were always meant to serve a private sandbox. But pretending ESO was built to be a solo playground doesn’t make it true. It just makes the contradictions more visible.

Anything in life 10 years into is very different from its start.

True, but not necessarily a step progressing forward. Quite often changes over the course of time make matters worse.

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Holding on to what it was so long ago doesn't make much sense.

That depends on what one is holding on to. There is a lot more merit in tradition than people give it credit for. This is a case of human survival. Straying too far from what is known has led to death, sometimes at the risk of an entire group.
Regarding games, there is a reason that Classic wow is so popular, the changes made over 20 years were not as appealing to many as once thought.

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Today ESO is very different from its birth, and 10 years from now it could become a taxi driver simulator for what I know.

Actually, unless the studio is extremely transparent about a change from what it is now to a taxi simulator, they could be taken to court for false advertising, there are laws protecting consumers.

SkaiFaith wrote: »

We'll see where devs will lead the game and we'll adapt or we'll leave - no reason to claim "ESO is this", "ESO is that", since everything changes; the whole MMO genre has changed and will continue to do so.

This post makes no sense. ESO and its game type is well established and defined. Even with changes it is still a well defined product.

Wuduwasa13 · May 7

Vet HM / Tri trials prog
Dungeon tri group
Bit of housing & maintaining guild house
Some cyrodil
Helping people farm bits they need
IA
Sometimes running laps for hours in my house or some city whilst in party chatting away.

SerafinaWaterstar · May 7

Depends.

If feeling sociable, will join my pvp guild and fool around in Cyro.
If not, housing. Or questing on different characters. Or helping out in trials with another guild. Or attempting trifectas.

If an event or GP is active, look at doing some of that.

As I said, depends on how I feel.

Syldras · May 7

LootAllTheStuff wrote: »

It's pretty obvious from the achievement stats that a lot of people tried the base game 'because it was free and Skyrim-with-friends!', and bounced off it pretty quickly. That's probably true of a lot of games that are either GamePass titles or were on a 'free-to-play' promo for a week or weekend. It does skew the achievement stats something awful, though!

Everything is skewed anyway as while we see how many people have completed something, we don't know their motivations. I know people often do things they actually don't care for much to get the reward. I've seen countless complaints in this forum about this thing; everything from group content people who don't enjoy questing or overland, but have to do it to get the antiquity lead for a mythic they want, to housing people who don't enjoy group content, but have to run some dungeons or even trials, because the reward is a housing item they need for one of their projects. So just because something has been completed, it doesn't mean the person is interested in it or enjoyed it.

SkaiFaith · May 7

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

sans-culottes wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Personally... I quest, run dolmens, level alts. Basically, I play ESO as intended- as 'Skyrim with friends' albeit without the 'friends'.

This is an interesting claim, especially given that ESO is an MMORPG by genre and by design. Not a single-player game with optional grouping, but a networked world built around persistent systems of cooperation, competition, and class synergy.

The “Skyrim with friends” marketing line was a hook, not a mission statement. To claim solo dolmen grinding represents the intended core experience while brushing aside group content, faction systems, and balance concerns isn’t just reductive. It’s revisionist.

If anything, then subclassing accelerates this flattening. It allows one to pretend that choices made for a multiplayer framework were always meant to serve a private sandbox. But pretending ESO was built to be a solo playground doesn’t make it true. It just makes the contradictions more visible.

Anything in life 10 years into is very different from its start.

True, but not necessarily a step progressing forward. Quite often changes over the course of time make matters worse.

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Holding on to what it was so long ago doesn't make much sense.

That depends on what one is holding on to. There is a lot more merit in tradition than people give it credit for. This is a case of human survival. Straying too far from what is known has led to death, sometimes at the risk of an entire group.
Regarding games, there is a reason that Classic wow is so popular, the changes made over 20 years were not as appealing to many as once thought.

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Today ESO is very different from its birth, and 10 years from now it could become a taxi driver simulator for what I know.

Actually, unless the studio is extremely transparent about a change from what it is now to a taxi simulator, they could be taken to court for false advertising, there are laws protecting consumers.

SkaiFaith wrote: »

We'll see where devs will lead the game and we'll adapt or we'll leave - no reason to claim "ESO is this", "ESO is that", since everything changes; the whole MMO genre has changed and will continue to do so.

This post makes no sense. ESO and its game type is well established and defined. Even with changes it is still a well defined product.

Point 1) I never said it to be a good thing, just stated the fact.
Point 2) Still, retail WoW performs better than Classic.
Point 3) I don't need to respond, really.
Point 4) this answer is to stay on the topic and not become an "unnecessary back and forth" - Each ESO player plays the game in its personal way and each player would describe it in a different way; some would call it MMO, some others "single player online". A quick search online would show that the topic of "MMOs going single player experience" is very much a reality, and not because of developers but because of players. Of course ESO is an MMO, look at player numbers... But Zos themselves are stirring more in the direction of a "social online world" different from the traditional MMOs, where solo players are more welcome than everywhere else. My personal feeling is that Devs are not pushing the traditional "MMO" aspect anymore because they got that many, if not most, ESO players don't care much... They just want to belong in Tamriel, doing whatever, and to do so we can call/make ESO what we want for ourselves

Gilvoth · May 7

i love this thread.
very interesting and i like it.

Nestor · May 7

Like all games, this is a Past Time. TV sucks, one shooter plays like any other, a new MMO is not a grind I care to go through again. I do play other games and this is part of the rotation.

As for what I do in this game, there is always something to do. Just have to look for it.

Horace-Wimp · May 7

Because it was so addicting in the MMO Rift, I have brought my own version of Manugo to ESO in regards to Champion Points. The numbers keep going UP!

ArchMikem · May 7

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

I often see people on forums say that veteran PvE content and PvP only interest a tiny portion of the player base. But that raises a real question for me—how are people playing this game then?

Elder Fashion: Online

But it depends at what point in the game you're at. I've spent most of my time Questing, until all that was done. I spent a couple years in Cyrodiil, Imperial City, and Battlegrounds until my main character got her first Star. I've done some choice Questing with alt characters, Zones I really wanted to go thru again. Then there's Achievements that I found doable.

But in the end it really boils down to, "I have to wait for the next Story DLC. Can I make a better looking outfit? I think I'll go ride around this one Zone for nostalgia's sake. I feel like Healing a Dungeon."

Northwold · May 8

Housing, sightseeing when it's cold and rainy outside, the activities that supplement housing, and tales of tribute. I have one character so, in these climes, I guess I'd be classed as niche. But at the end of the day I don't *want* to be too heavily invested in a video game, because that's time I'll never get back, so my end game is just using the game to relax from time to time and uninstalling it whenever I feel I'm getting addicted / whenever I get sick to death of the guild trader system and not being able to sell stuff properly without joining a guild so having to do everything the hard way (which is frequently).

Imza · May 8

I came back after a 4 yr break to do the year long celebration for the 10 Yr thing.

I will admit to playing 8+ hours a day

I am filling my stickerbook (it wasn't a thing when I left)
Now that achievements are account bound - it screwed up my way of playing before.... so now I do:

Events once a day I do not need to chase those elusive style pages I'm not really into fashion.
IA daily about 20 items left to get then I'll try Vateshran then Maelstrom - etc
Questing in new chapters on my main - alts be danged for questing - they are for other things
Crafting writs daily on 6 characters during events - or just 3 otherwise - I want those grand master crafting stations and all substations.
PVP - only when I need endeavours - or for a Golden Pursuit - otherwise forget it
Housing - occasionally if I'm a bit bored
getting my alts all the skyshards and map clears (turning those icons white!)
dungeons when I need skill points - and whenever I feel like filling the stickerbook
randoms when I need transmutes
Trials - I do not need that agro that comes with trials and grouping - it's why I left in the first place
occasionally I will group with a new player or my partner and do stuff with them.... but seldom do that. I like to play solo

I'm sure there is more I do but I can't for the life of me think of more to put down right now.....

EDIT: As I turn back to the game - oh yes I know what to add - I also level skill lines on my alts as the mood takes me

Rishikesa108 · May 8

Aside from the little daily tasks (daily crafting, endeavors, etc.) I hunt leads. I hate that they are so hard to find, I find it so unfair. I have completed 80% of the codexes, but I find it almost impossible to complete 100%. I don't know why we can't complete the codexes, it seems bad to me. The antiquities system is quite old now, it's not a novelty anymore, it's about time that the percentage of leads dropped was higher, especially in the DLC areas.
And so yes, lately I'm a bit bored, because I can't get what I want. So I've been playing other games at the same time, with satisfaction, I must say.

gc0018 · May 8

"I often see people on forums say that veteran PvE content and PvP only interest a tiny portion of the player base"

Asking right or wrong first before asking why.

Most of the recent MMO game, only 2-5% of the player pays for the game and most of the paid player takes up 70-90% game time. These data are publicly researched and published. Using AI academic search tool, you can find the papers & abstract without being a graduate student / researcher easily.

It suggests the veteran PvE content and PvP (including prepared for the activity) may not be "a tiny portion", but a decent group of active players.

Al_Ex_Andre · May 8

I completed the Golden Pursuit a couple of days ago, so now it's Infinite Archive with my tank companion every day if I have the mood and some repeatable crafting quests but on my main and on another character only, plus the daily login on my second account.

That's it. Takes me 1 hour and a half maybie a day. Hopefully I am stacking enough archival fortunes for the next style pages for when I won't do IA next weeks, those that cost 15 000 fortunes yes these ones, as I have already collected the class style pages, and it took me several months!

Cheers

sans-culottes · May 8

gc0018 wrote: »

"I often see people on forums say that veteran PvE content and PvP only interest a tiny portion of the player base"

Asking right or wrong first before asking why.

Most of the recent MMO game, only 2-5% of the player pays for the game and most of the paid player takes up 70-90% game time. These data are publicly researched and published. Using AI academic search tool, you can find the papers & abstract without being a graduate student / researcher easily.

It suggests the veteran PvE content and PvP (including prepared for the activity) may not be "a tiny portion", but a decent group of active players.

Exactly. The “1% myth” gets trotted out every time someone wants to dismiss feedback that threatens their preferred solo routine. But it’s projection, not data. It’s an attempt to universalize their own disengagement while ignoring that the players putting in the most hours—and, often, the most money—are the ones engaging with veteran PvE and PvP. That’s not elitism. It’s just how engagement works.

SkaiFaith · May 8

When they launched Infinite Archive they showed data about it after a month. It would have been nice to see similar data shown after House Tour release - would be fun to see how many hours the playerbase spend just inside homes XD

Sadras · May 8

I play it basically like a single-player Elder Scrolls game with a bit of optional multiplayer tie-in.
i mainly quest and explore, make a new character once in a while that gets their own set of zones and stories/questlines and build to match their lore etc.
(And after a platform switch, there's a lot for me to do from scratch now.)
Also housing - I love housing. Picking who of my characters lives in a house, what's the function, how it'll be decorated, I can spend hours on that.
These are my main things. If there was nothing else in this game, I'd be perfectly happy and content and say it's a good game.

I craft and do some antiquities and play some ToT.

I occasionally do dungeons when I feel like it or overland stuff like delves and dolmens as part of zone exploration or to level/get things, depending on the activity. But I'll also spend weeks at a time not entering a single dungeon.

I hate dailies, battle passes, "things you should do now in this time frame for this reward", in any game. Crafting and Tribute dailies are the only ones I'll semi-regularly do in ESO, but not daily either. Otherwise, I ignore it all. It's chores and busywork to me, and I have enough of "tedious chores for earning something" IRL, in a game I want to do whatever I feel like at that moment, and that is basically never the stuff given in dailies, Golden Pursuits and all that typical MMO stuff. Even if, the fact that I'm being given a chore will make me even less inclined to do it.
Since this is a TES game to me first and foremost, I want my play principle to be, "Today I do this quest chain"/"Today I feel like levelling this thing"/"Today I have no plan and will set out somewhere and pick flowers and see what's on the map". And the less pop-ups interfere with that, the more entertained I am.

Elsonso · May 8

sans-culottes wrote: »

gc0018 wrote: »

"I often see people on forums say that veteran PvE content and PvP only interest a tiny portion of the player base"

Asking right or wrong first before asking why.

Most of the recent MMO game, only 2-5% of the player pays for the game and most of the paid player takes up 70-90% game time. These data are publicly researched and published. Using AI academic search tool, you can find the papers & abstract without being a graduate student / researcher easily.

It suggests the veteran PvE content and PvP (including prepared for the activity) may not be "a tiny portion", but a decent group of active players.

Exactly. The “1% myth” gets trotted out every time someone wants to dismiss feedback that threatens their preferred solo routine. But it’s projection, not data. It’s an attempt to universalize their own disengagement while ignoring that the players putting in the most hours—and, often, the most money—are the ones engaging with veteran PvE and PvP. That’s not elitism. It’s just how engagement works.

Preface... I have no vested interests in how people play the game, whether they solo or group, or whether they are doing veteran dungeons, PVP, or just collecting butterflies. I am happy with people logging into the game and doing whatever they want while they are logged in.

That said, I also try to be realistic about what I think people are doing. We can look to achievement aggregations to see how many players are completing certain end-game achievements. Investigation will find veteran achievements have been completed by so few people that they round to zero.

Additionally, I hesitate to lump ESO in with a lot of other MMO games and academic papers are pretty much worthless unless they are studying ESO. This game has proven, a couple times over, that it stands separate from the average MMO in design and mix of players. This game has a serious and dedicated contingent that does not do 'competitive' group play. The game has evolved accordingly, further distancing itself from other MMOs.

A couple of years ago I was fairly sure that ESO Plus was used by the overwhelming majority of active players. A lot of players were paying while playing, and not just Chapters and Crowns to buy Crown Crates. ESO Plus does not appear to equate to end-game PVE or PVP participation. Just because a lot of players may have it does not mean that a lot of players are spending time in Cyrodiil or queuing for a lot of veteran dungeons. Financial participation in the game does not feel like an indicator of anything other than someone playing the game.

A series of complaints a couple years back suggests that some players don't want ESO Plus because the DLC dungeons come up in the random rotation and they take too long to do. This indicates that some players may be actively avoiding certain veteran PVE situations while participating in other veteran activities. Time, possibly due to difficulty (wipes), seems to be the issue.

Anyway, no one knows how many players are doing what in this game, outside of ZOS, and they are unlikely to share. My gut tells me that veteran end-game and serious Cyrodiil PVP are single digit populations. This is not because I want players to do my preferred play. It is because I honestly feel that is an appropriate guess.

Why do players not do content? Lack of rewarding rewards that bring players back after they get whatever it is they were looking for in the first place.

I recently did fishing for the Golden Pursuit and was reminded that the boring activity has appropriately boring rewards. (I am a master angler by the way.) This is pretty much the entire game. Lots of grind for a few table scraps and old bread crumbs.

sans-culottes · May 8

Elsonso wrote: »

sans-culottes wrote: »

gc0018 wrote: »

"I often see people on forums say that veteran PvE content and PvP only interest a tiny portion of the player base"

Asking right or wrong first before asking why.

Most of the recent MMO game, only 2-5% of the player pays for the game and most of the paid player takes up 70-90% game time. These data are publicly researched and published. Using AI academic search tool, you can find the papers & abstract without being a graduate student / researcher easily.

It suggests the veteran PvE content and PvP (including prepared for the activity) may not be "a tiny portion", but a decent group of active players.

Exactly. The “1% myth” gets trotted out every time someone wants to dismiss feedback that threatens their preferred solo routine. But it’s projection, not data. It’s an attempt to universalize their own disengagement while ignoring that the players putting in the most hours—and, often, the most money—are the ones engaging with veteran PvE and PvP. That’s not elitism. It’s just how engagement works.

Preface... I have no vested interests in how people play the game, whether they solo or group, or whether they are doing veteran dungeons, PVP, or just collecting butterflies. I am happy with people logging into the game and doing whatever they want while they are logged in.

That said, I also try to be realistic about what I think people are doing. We can look to achievement aggregations to see how many players are completing certain end-game achievements. Investigation will find veteran achievements have been completed by so few people that they round to zero.

Additionally, I hesitate to lump ESO in with a lot of other MMO games and academic papers are pretty much worthless unless they are studying ESO. This game has proven, a couple times over, that it stands separate from the average MMO in design and mix of players. This game has a serious and dedicated contingent that does not do 'competitive' group play. The game has evolved accordingly, further distancing itself from other MMOs.

A couple of years ago I was fairly sure that ESO Plus was used by the overwhelming majority of active players. A lot of players were paying while playing, and not just Chapters and Crowns to buy Crown Crates. ESO Plus does not appear to equate to end-game PVE or PVP participation. Just because a lot of players may have it does not mean that a lot of players are spending time in Cyrodiil or queuing for a lot of veteran dungeons. Financial participation in the game does not feel like an indicator of anything other than someone playing the game.

A series of complaints a couple years back suggests that some players don't want ESO Plus because the DLC dungeons come up in the random rotation and they take too long to do. This indicates that some players may be actively avoiding certain veteran PVE situations while participating in other veteran activities. Time, possibly due to difficulty (wipes), seems to be the issue.

Anyway, no one knows how many players are doing what in this game, outside of ZOS, and they are unlikely to share. My gut tells me that veteran end-game and serious Cyrodiil PVP are single digit populations. This is not because I want players to do my preferred play. It is because I honestly feel that is an appropriate guess.

Why do players not do content? Lack of rewarding rewards that bring players back after they get whatever it is they were looking for in the first place.

I recently did fishing for the Golden Pursuit and was reminded that the boring activity has appropriately boring rewards. (I am a master angler by the way.) This is pretty much the entire game. Lots of grind for a few table scraps and old bread crumbs.

I mostly agree with your take here, especially on reward structure and how ESO has evolved apart from more traditional MMOs. But I’d clarify that my original point wasn’t that veteran PvE or PvP players are a silent majority. It’s that the “1%” claim is routinely used as a rhetorical weapon to invalidate any feedback that challenges solo-overland preferences. That’s just projection masquerading as statistics.

Jaimeh · May 8

I like how the thread showcases actually how much variety of activities there are in the game and how people do all sorts of different things. I see much of the same thing reflected across my guilds; people participate in a lot of different content, and also do niche things unique to them, which I think is awesome. I definitely think endgame PvE and PvP are popular activities: I 'pug' a lot of dungeons and trials and even in old content, like vCrags, there's a variety of players, from newbies farming gear to vets getting their coffers, filling their stickerbooks or just helping others. I also run a lot of BGs and play in Cyro, and while there you do tend to see more regulars, I think they make a bigger chunk of the playerbase than the forum crowd estimates, and they are also some of the most invested players in the game as well.

As for me, I enjoy almost all activities in ESO, it depends on what I feel like doing at any given time. My favourite activity probably has to be group dungeons and trials, but I also like to run solo content; for eg., back in the vMA/vVH days doing all achievements on all class specs, and so on, and now I like to run IA. I also try to solo veteran group content sometimes. PvP is my next favourite thing, especially overland Cyro and BGs, and I spend a lot of time there as well. I go through housing phases, where I get completely focused on a build until it's done, and I like collecting furnishings, doing tours, and all the housing-related things. I also like to play ToT with the NPCs, so I do that from time to time as well. I have spells where I pick a zone with a nice landscape and go on a farming node spree, or I do some thieving. Besides prescribed activities and questing on my main character, I think I've spent the most time building my alt characters, leveling and gearing them. The things I like doing the least are daily writs, farming WB/delve/incursion dailies, antiquities, and fishing, though I still do these things when I need to get materials, achievements or event collectibles. Finally, I don't do a lot of trading, and I've never really RPed, besides having a basic backstory for some of my toons or creating outfits.