Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Can't wait for all those players who haven't read the PTS notes to assume the double spec bow is some new cheat going around... but in all seriousness, playing around the constant persistent threat of being two shotted by NB derivatives is simply not fun PvP, regardless of skill level. At best it warps the meta, at worst it kills BGs the way Rushing Agony killed Cyro. The rest of the line is loaded too, instant spammable that's stronger than cast time spammables, insane crit passives. It won't be a subclass meta, it'll be a NB meta.

I don't want to offend you but if you die to 2 arrows casted in a row it's 100% a skill issue, merciless is an instant cast projectile so it's impossible to guarantee a hit with it, you can't use it any viable combo like you can do with shalks or blastbones, it's just a pressure tool with additional WPD, making merciless stack up to 10 times solves the problem of it being bad at pressure, so it's completely logical that among all super strong abilities like shalks, blastbones or curse(or even POTL, though it's way worse than the previous 3 it's still way better than merciless) merciless is the one that's getting buffed. I'd personally prefer if one of it's morphs damage were nerfed by around 30-40% but had a delay on it, but that works too considering we have a subclassing now

Technically merciless is not a projectile because it doesn’t interact with skills like spell wall, wings etc.

Merciless is one of the hardest if not the hardest hitting skill in the game btw, including ultimates. It hits harder than any kind of delayed burst even with subclassing (fact). By no means should it also buff pressure damage.
Needless to say that it’s in the same tree as one of the best spammables, best st burst ultimate and loaded passives.

Haven’t seen curse in a while? It barely deals more damage than a spammable and has no additional effects, check the tooltip.
You should play some actual pvp before engaging into pvp on forum

It hits harder than any kind of delayed burst"

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Can't wait for all those players who haven't read the PTS notes to assume the double spec bow is some new cheat going around... but in all seriousness, playing around the constant persistent threat of being two shotted by NB derivatives is simply not fun PvP, regardless of skill level. At best it warps the meta, at worst it kills BGs the way Rushing Agony killed Cyro. The rest of the line is loaded too, instant spammable that's stronger than cast time spammables, insane crit passives. It won't be a subclass meta, it'll be a NB meta.

I don't want to offend you but if you die to 2 arrows casted in a row it's 100% a skill issue, merciless is an instant cast projectile so it's impossible to guarantee a hit with it, you can't use it any viable combo like you can do with shalks or blastbones, it's just a pressure tool with additional WPD, making merciless stack up to 10 times solves the problem of it being bad at pressure, so it's completely logical that among all super strong abilities like shalks, blastbones or curse(or even POTL, though it's way worse than the previous 3 it's still way better than merciless) merciless is the one that's getting buffed. I'd personally prefer if one of it's morphs damage were nerfed by around 30-40% but had a delay on it, but that works too considering we have a subclassing now

Technically merciless is not a projectile because it doesn’t interact with skills like spell wall, wings etc.

Merciless is one of the hardest if not the hardest hitting skill in the game btw, including ultimates. It hits harder than any kind of delayed burst even with subclassing (fact). By no means should it also buff pressure damage.
Needless to say that it’s in the same tree as one of the best spammables, best st burst ultimate and loaded passives.

Haven’t seen curse in a while? It barely deals more damage than a spammable and has no additional effects, check the tooltip.
You should play some actual pvp before engaging into pvp on forum

"It hits harder than any kind of delayed burst" well no ***, as it should because it's not a delayed burst and it's impossible to use it in combo, it's good as pressure tool but doesn't work as a burst at all because there is simply no way to burst with it, randomly pressing skill that hits for 10-15k if it crits but can't be combined with anything and then your enemy just holds block and outhealds that damage in 1 or 2 seconds, which is not bad of course because it drains recourses, but he is not in any way of danger unless he is our of resources (so basically, as I said, A PRESSURE TOOL)

Also the fact that it doesn't interact with warden shield etc is a bug, it wasn't always like that, but it's not that important, what is important is that it has a slow travel time and you can't hit it after ulti

If you get bursted by incap+merciless it just says that you are below average skill player and need to learn how to press dodge, not that merciless is op, you say I should play some actual pvp? Let's do a pts duel so you can show me how I didn't(can do on live if you are on PC EU)

Prionyx wrote: »

That makes it even worse, from 12k to 6-7k total because if someone sees ulfsild next skill will be automatically blocked

my good sir, why are you considering bfb a burst, but specbow is a pressure tool? is sorc's frags also a pressure tool? overload is also a pressure tool?

here is some potential oneshot combos that are popular in pts:
merciless -> incap -> merciless.
merciless -> meteor -> jav -> merciless.
deep fissure/blighted -> corrosive -> ulfilds -> petrify -> merciless. (<- this one is just a health check, no way to avoid outside of unplugging your internet cable/pc from the wall)

your "pressure tool" is one of the most popular burst element of pts dueling builds right now. And based on latets patchnotes it also will be on live.

Ah there it is.

Good players only die to AoE DoTs because everything else can be blocked or dodged.

If you ever died to a Single Target or Direct Damage, you are a bad player.

Thanks for the tip GodBlades, I had forgotten about this. It was so funny when the Devs said in that one patch "Curse can now be blocked". Like umm who cares it's not an AoE DoT!

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

your "pressure tool" is one of the most popular burst element of pts dueling builds right now. And based on latets patchnotes it also will be on live.

They're dropping their burst combos so frequently they even do higher dps than actual dot pressure builds. Of course that's because the Assassin line is broken overpowered, nothing in there is supposed to be a pressure tool except the Lotus Fan dot (still bad) and I guess the spammable Veiled Strike morphs (Surprise is way too good again).

This works better than actual pressure build only against low skill players, if you are getting pressured hard by merciless it's a skill issue

Prionyx wrote: »

Saying "merciless+meteor+jav+merciless is a combo" just shows how little you undetstand the game, I wonder if you are just trying to trigger me
Also yes, crystal and especially overload are pressure tools

Enlighten us o Lord? For me this word Combo originated in Street Fighter II days, and it was definitely just "pressing buttons in a row". You think it only means damage stacked in 1 GCD or what exactly?

I used to play SF2 at a public arcade when it came out, prior to then the only Combo I knew were the salty snacks.

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

Saying "merciless+meteor+jav+merciless is a combo" just shows how little you undetstand the game, I wonder if you are just trying to trigger me
Also yes, crystal and especially overload are pressure tools

Enlighten us o Lord? For me this word Combo originated in Street Fighter II days, and it was definitely just "pressing buttons in a row". You think it only means damage stacked in 1 GCD or what exactly?

I used to play SF2 at a public arcade when it came out, prior to then the only Combo I knew were the salty snacks.

In fighting games combos are guaranteed things, I'll use mortal kombat as an example because I never had any interactions with other fightings, if you getting combod there is nothing you can do about it, you either just take the damage or use combo breaker. Like you get hit that you could have countered but didn't, this hits guarantees next hit, next hit guarantees next hit etc. In reality if eso you can't make such long combos, but DB can guarantee a shalks+BFB for example, if you get hit by DB there is nothing you can do after it but to take the damage, if you get hit by incap you just roll dodge merciless, it's not guaranteed, therefore it's not a combo

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Can't wait for all those players who haven't read the PTS notes to assume the double spec bow is some new cheat going around... but in all seriousness, playing around the constant persistent threat of being two shotted by NB derivatives is simply not fun PvP, regardless of skill level. At best it warps the meta, at worst it kills BGs the way Rushing Agony killed Cyro. The rest of the line is loaded too, instant spammable that's stronger than cast time spammables, insane crit passives. It won't be a subclass meta, it'll be a NB meta.

I don't want to offend you but if you die to 2 arrows casted in a row it's 100% a skill issue, merciless is an instant cast projectile so it's impossible to guarantee a hit with it, you can't use it any viable combo like you can do with shalks or blastbones, it's just a pressure tool with additional WPD, making merciless stack up to 10 times solves the problem of it being bad at pressure, so it's completely logical that among all super strong abilities like shalks, blastbones or curse(or even POTL, though it's way worse than the previous 3 it's still way better than merciless) merciless is the one that's getting buffed. I'd personally prefer if one of it's morphs damage were nerfed by around 30-40% but had a delay on it, but that works too considering we have a subclassing now

“Nightblade has no burst”
-prionyx

All we need to know.

Yep. They think POTL is "way better than merciless."

It will be a mistake if double spec bow makes it to live in pvp… trust.

For sure this idea of a combo in early SF2 before Combo became an in-game mechanic in later games like Tekken relied on a soft kind of exploit, "it wouldn't let me block" well that kid was right, his skill failure was in allowing the combo to begin in the first place.

In ESO terms it's not a lack of skill that prevents everyone from breaking free instantly.. some of these limitations must be balanced around.

2 Merciless just sounds whack tho. Do you play other classes?

A good player would say yes low skill.

It is inherently and self-evidently low skill to take unblocked damage from Direct Damage unless it is during the half second spent breaking free, or whatever it is.

Fine I don't disagree. Let us rephrase the plea then.

Don't make Double Bow a thing or the masses of low skilled players not having fun will stop playing, leaving the good players to have 0 kill 0 death gameplay blocking and dodging all of each others Double Bows.

Afterip wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

Saying "merciless+meteor+jav+merciless is a combo" just shows how little you undetstand the game, I wonder if you are just trying to trigger me

Do you know that jav pierce block?

Cost: 3780 Magicka
Target: Enemy
Maximum range: 22 meters
Effect
Hurl your spear at an enemy with godlike strength, dealing 1392 Magic Damage and knocking them back 8 meters. This ability ignores the enemy's Resistances and cannot be blocked.

It doesn't guarantee merciless because merciless is a slow projectie...

Joy_Division wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Can't wait for all those players who haven't read the PTS notes to assume the double spec bow is some new cheat going around... but in all seriousness, playing around the constant persistent threat of being two shotted by NB derivatives is simply not fun PvP, regardless of skill level. At best it warps the meta, at worst it kills BGs the way Rushing Agony killed Cyro. The rest of the line is loaded too, instant spammable that's stronger than cast time spammables, insane crit passives. It won't be a subclass meta, it'll be a NB meta.

I don't want to offend you but if you die to 2 arrows casted in a row it's 100% a skill issue, merciless is an instant cast projectile so it's impossible to guarantee a hit with it, you can't use it any viable combo like you can do with shalks or blastbones, it's just a pressure tool with additional WPD, making merciless stack up to 10 times solves the problem of it being bad at pressure, so it's completely logical that among all super strong abilities like shalks, blastbones or curse(or even POTL, though it's way worse than the previous 3 it's still way better than merciless) merciless is the one that's getting buffed. I'd personally prefer if one of it's morphs damage were nerfed by around 30-40% but had a delay on it, but that works too considering we have a subclassing now

“Nightblade has no burst”
-prionyx

All we need to know.

Yep. They think POTL is "way better than merciless."

Potl isn't way better but anything with delayed burst(except ulfsild of course) is better than merciless but potl would fit NB much better than merciless as NB is designed to be a burst class but doesn't have any class burst abilities, just very good ST ulti that could be combined really well with skills like shalks or BB, or potl too, yeah... Yeah merciless is good in killing low skills but why would any devs want to balance their game around low skills, it doesn't make any sence because you can kill low skills in any build on any class, and NB is far from best in doing so, don't need much damage to kill weak players, survivabilty is much more important here and NB has the worst survivability, I just don't understand why you complain about NB and not about wardens who have much better natural burst and better survivability

"Not a single somewhat decent player has ever died to Merciless"

Ok so whats that Dueling? You're seriously saying this applies for GvG, BGs, even solo OW where you know, maybe a not absolute bottom tier player just X'd some truly bottom tiers and now you find him alone with 2k Stam?

Prionyx wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

"Not a single somewhat decent player has ever died to Merciless"

Ok so whats that Dueling? You're seriously saying this applies for GvG, BGs, even solo OW where you know, maybe a not absolute bottom tier player just X'd some truly bottom tiers and now you find him alone with 2k Stam?

The fact that you need to imagine situations when someone has 2k stam left in order to kill him with merciless is funny tbh, you don't need any burst skills, just hitting one cc and a few spammalbes is enough here. What point is that, "bow is strong because you can kill a guy with 2k stam with it"?

Yes because context matters.

No, ESO is not balanced for players who have NEVER died to Merciless. You need to try darts or baseball if youre still young enough to play

@Prionyx did you only learn how to incap+bow or something? you've got off balance, you've got incap + conceal combo which IS GUARANTEED, you've got a few different off bal/bow execute combos. And there are a few ways to hide the incap.

but more importantly do you really want incap + bow to be guaranteed? Even as a nb main I don't want that. No one asked for nbs to be able to chamber 2 back-to-back bows.