Second week, no arcanist nerf
Prionyx
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If you zos plan to kill PvE entirely and make so nobody plays it you are moving in the right direction... I simply have no idea how possibly you could turn MMO with by far the best combat into the worst one by making fatecarver skill with high amount of passive abilities that baically makes you being afk around 70% of the fight...
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Yeah. I feel like it really shouldn't be underestimated how demoralizing it is for anyone who doesn't want to skate by on the fatecarver crutch; there are so many different combinations in subclassing that could be very fun, and very effective... but it's all going to get blown out of the water by some arcanist/necro combo pushing two buttons and calling it a day. It's not balanced at all and HAS to be addressed.13 -
Prionyx✭✭✭✭drip_fromtheinkwell wrote: »Yeah. I feel like it really shouldn't be underestimated how demoralizing it is for anyone who doesn't want to skate by on the fatecarver crutch; there are so many different combinations in subclassing that could be very fun, and very effective... but it's all going to get blown out of the water by some arcanist/necro combo pushing two buttons and calling it a day. It's not balanced at all and HAS to be addressed.
Not to mention that they nerf warden and NB instead... So out of touch it's just unbelievable7 -
licenturion✭✭✭✭✭
✭They said combat stuff is next week in the patch notes.Edited by licenturion on 28 April 2025 18:224 -
licenturion wrote: »They said combat stuff is next week in the patch notes.
Ahh, apologies, I didn't see that.
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danko355✭✭✭Instead they again nerf nightblades. A class with 2 useless for PvE trees, and they really want to make the assassination useless as well, it seems.4 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭licenturion wrote: »They said combat stuff is next week in the patch notes.
That said, it's not strictly arcanist that needs a nerf but rather its interaction with other skills.
Either that or we need azureblight back. Because right now no matter how much arc is nerfed, beam is gonna be preferred.6 -
Prionyx✭✭✭✭licenturion wrote: »They said combat stuff is next week in the patch notes.
That said, it's not strictly arcanist that needs a nerf but rather its interaction with other skills.
Either that or we need azureblight back. Because right now no matter how much arc is nerfed, beam is gonna be preferred.
Fatecarver needed massive nerfs even before subclassingEdited by Prionyx on 28 April 2025 18:3111 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭licenturion wrote: »They said combat stuff is next week in the patch notes.
That said, it's not strictly arcanist that needs a nerf but rather its interaction with other skills.
Either that or we need azureblight back. Because right now no matter how much arc is nerfed, beam is gonna be preferred.
Fatecarver needed massive nerfs even before subclassing
Why? Azureblight made other dot based classes competitive in PvE. At the pinnacle of endgame, arcanist was only used for zenas in a lot of content (recent world records have 1-2 arcs max and usually stack other classes). Arcanist is a good bridge class for the middle tier of raiding. Better than oakensoul, not as good as pressing more buttons.8 -
Prionyx✭✭✭✭licenturion wrote: »They said combat stuff is next week in the patch notes.
That said, it's not strictly arcanist that needs a nerf but rather its interaction with other skills.
Either that or we need azureblight back. Because right now no matter how much arc is nerfed, beam is gonna be preferred.
Fatecarver needed massive nerfs even before subclassing
Why? Azureblight made other dot based classes competitive in PvE. At the pinnacle of endgame, arcanist was only used for zenas in a lot of content (recent world records have 1-2 arcs max and usually stack other classes). Arcanist is a good bridge class for the middle tier of raiding. Better than oakensoul, not as good as pressing more buttons.
Because playstyle that takes no skill whatsoever shouldn't be any close to normal classes. At some point ZOS nerfed heavy attack build for this reason but heavy attack builds were never as strong as acranist is and are harder to play compared to arcanistEdited by Prionyx on 28 April 2025 18:507 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭licenturion wrote: »They said combat stuff is next week in the patch notes.
That said, it's not strictly arcanist that needs a nerf but rather its interaction with other skills.
Either that or we need azureblight back. Because right now no matter how much arc is nerfed, beam is gonna be preferred.
Fatecarver needed massive nerfs even before subclassing
Why? Azureblight made other dot based classes competitive in PvE. At the pinnacle of endgame, arcanist was only used for zenas in a lot of content (recent world records have 1-2 arcs max and usually stack other classes). Arcanist is a good bridge class for the middle tier of raiding. Better than oakensoul, not as good as pressing more buttons.
Because playstyle that takes no skill whatsoever shouldn't be any close to normal classes. At some point ZOS nerfed heavy attack build for this reason but heavy attack builds were never as strong as acranist is and are harder to play compared to arcanist
But playing arcanist well does take skill. Playing arcanist average doesn't, but I have seen a LOT of mediocre arcanists in the endgame community.
I've literally seen 50-60K damage gaps in a single run.3 -
Prionyx✭✭✭✭licenturion wrote: »They said combat stuff is next week in the patch notes.
That said, it's not strictly arcanist that needs a nerf but rather its interaction with other skills.
Either that or we need azureblight back. Because right now no matter how much arc is nerfed, beam is gonna be preferred.
Fatecarver needed massive nerfs even before subclassing
Why? Azureblight made other dot based classes competitive in PvE. At the pinnacle of endgame, arcanist was only used for zenas in a lot of content (recent world records have 1-2 arcs max and usually stack other classes). Arcanist is a good bridge class for the middle tier of raiding. Better than oakensoul, not as good as pressing more buttons.
Because playstyle that takes no skill whatsoever shouldn't be any close to normal classes. At some point ZOS nerfed heavy attack build for this reason but heavy attack builds were never as strong as acranist is and are harder to play compared to arcanist
But playing arcanist well does take skill. Playing arcanist average doesn't, but I have seen a LOT of mediocre arcanists in the endgame community.
I've literally seen 50-60K damage gaps in a single run.
Playing arcanist is 90% luck and 10% your skill, it's nowhere near close other classes. If someone is soo bad that they can't even handle arcanist we shouldn't really count them as players to statistics since those are just people who don't even try to play competetetive and are just roleplayers or questers1 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭licenturion wrote: »They said combat stuff is next week in the patch notes.
That said, it's not strictly arcanist that needs a nerf but rather its interaction with other skills.
Either that or we need azureblight back. Because right now no matter how much arc is nerfed, beam is gonna be preferred.
Fatecarver needed massive nerfs even before subclassing
Why? Azureblight made other dot based classes competitive in PvE. At the pinnacle of endgame, arcanist was only used for zenas in a lot of content (recent world records have 1-2 arcs max and usually stack other classes). Arcanist is a good bridge class for the middle tier of raiding. Better than oakensoul, not as good as pressing more buttons.
Because playstyle that takes no skill whatsoever shouldn't be any close to normal classes. At some point ZOS nerfed heavy attack build for this reason but heavy attack builds were never as strong as acranist is and are harder to play compared to arcanist
But playing arcanist well does take skill. Playing arcanist average doesn't, but I have seen a LOT of mediocre arcanists in the endgame community.
I've literally seen 50-60K damage gaps in a single run.
Playing arcanist is 90% luck and 10% your skill, it's nowhere near close other classes. If someone is soo bad that they can't even handle arcanist we shouldn't really count them as players to statistics since those are just people who don't even try to play competetetive and are just roleplayers or questers
A 60K DPS difference isn't luck.
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Prionyx✭✭✭✭licenturion wrote: »They said combat stuff is next week in the patch notes.
That said, it's not strictly arcanist that needs a nerf but rather its interaction with other skills.
Either that or we need azureblight back. Because right now no matter how much arc is nerfed, beam is gonna be preferred.
Fatecarver needed massive nerfs even before subclassing
Why? Azureblight made other dot based classes competitive in PvE. At the pinnacle of endgame, arcanist was only used for zenas in a lot of content (recent world records have 1-2 arcs max and usually stack other classes). Arcanist is a good bridge class for the middle tier of raiding. Better than oakensoul, not as good as pressing more buttons.
Because playstyle that takes no skill whatsoever shouldn't be any close to normal classes. At some point ZOS nerfed heavy attack build for this reason but heavy attack builds were never as strong as acranist is and are harder to play compared to arcanist
But playing arcanist well does take skill. Playing arcanist average doesn't, but I have seen a LOT of mediocre arcanists in the endgame community.
I've literally seen 50-60K damage gaps in a single run.
Playing arcanist is 90% luck and 10% your skill, it's nowhere near close other classes. If someone is soo bad that they can't even handle arcanist we shouldn't really count them as players to statistics since those are just people who don't even try to play competetetive and are just roleplayers or questers
A 60K DPS difference isn't luck.
If arcanist got outparsed by zenkosh DK by 40k it's a roleplayer I've mentioned above2 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭licenturion wrote: »They said combat stuff is next week in the patch notes.
That said, it's not strictly arcanist that needs a nerf but rather its interaction with other skills.
Either that or we need azureblight back. Because right now no matter how much arc is nerfed, beam is gonna be preferred.
Fatecarver needed massive nerfs even before subclassing
Why? Azureblight made other dot based classes competitive in PvE. At the pinnacle of endgame, arcanist was only used for zenas in a lot of content (recent world records have 1-2 arcs max and usually stack other classes). Arcanist is a good bridge class for the middle tier of raiding. Better than oakensoul, not as good as pressing more buttons.
Because playstyle that takes no skill whatsoever shouldn't be any close to normal classes. At some point ZOS nerfed heavy attack build for this reason but heavy attack builds were never as strong as acranist is and are harder to play compared to arcanist
But playing arcanist well does take skill. Playing arcanist average doesn't, but I have seen a LOT of mediocre arcanists in the endgame community.
I've literally seen 50-60K damage gaps in a single run.
Playing arcanist is 90% luck and 10% your skill, it's nowhere near close other classes. If someone is soo bad that they can't even handle arcanist we shouldn't really count them as players to statistics since those are just people who don't even try to play competetetive and are just roleplayers or questers
A 60K DPS difference isn't luck.
If arcanist got outparsed by zenkosh DK by 40k it's a roleplayer I've mentioned above
The dk was in parse gear for this fight. And definitely not a roleplayer, just someone who assumed arcanist was easy.Edited by sarahthes on 28 April 2025 20:174 -
Prionyx✭✭✭✭licenturion wrote: »They said combat stuff is next week in the patch notes.
That said, it's not strictly arcanist that needs a nerf but rather its interaction with other skills.
Either that or we need azureblight back. Because right now no matter how much arc is nerfed, beam is gonna be preferred.
Fatecarver needed massive nerfs even before subclassing
Why? Azureblight made other dot based classes competitive in PvE. At the pinnacle of endgame, arcanist was only used for zenas in a lot of content (recent world records have 1-2 arcs max and usually stack other classes). Arcanist is a good bridge class for the middle tier of raiding. Better than oakensoul, not as good as pressing more buttons.
Because playstyle that takes no skill whatsoever shouldn't be any close to normal classes. At some point ZOS nerfed heavy attack build for this reason but heavy attack builds were never as strong as acranist is and are harder to play compared to arcanist
But playing arcanist well does take skill. Playing arcanist average doesn't, but I have seen a LOT of mediocre arcanists in the endgame community.
I've literally seen 50-60K damage gaps in a single run.
Playing arcanist is 90% luck and 10% your skill, it's nowhere near close other classes. If someone is soo bad that they can't even handle arcanist we shouldn't really count them as players to statistics since those are just people who don't even try to play competetetive and are just roleplayers or questers
A 60K DPS difference isn't luck.
If arcanist got outparsed by zenkosh DK by 40k it's a roleplayer I've mentioned above
The dk was in parse gear for this fight. And definitely not a roleplayer, just someone who assumed arcanist was easy.
First of all it IS super easy even now, there is literally nothing you need to know to play this class effectively, the only thing that takes some skill is managing coral riptide but it's not a class specific set, second arcanist will be even easier to play if it goes live like it's currently on PTS, even less skills to cast2 -
Reginald_leBlem✭✭✭✭✭
✭The problem is, the only way Zos knows how to balance anything is with a chainsaw. They aren't going to buff other class spammables like whip or frags, they are going to nerf beam, nerf GLS, leave a random 4 second channel on templar and idk, probably nerf warden again for good measure. Add pen to another random passive no one asked for.
6 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭licenturion wrote: »They said combat stuff is next week in the patch notes.
That said, it's not strictly arcanist that needs a nerf but rather its interaction with other skills.
Either that or we need azureblight back. Because right now no matter how much arc is nerfed, beam is gonna be preferred.
Fatecarver needed massive nerfs even before subclassing
Why? Azureblight made other dot based classes competitive in PvE. At the pinnacle of endgame, arcanist was only used for zenas in a lot of content (recent world records have 1-2 arcs max and usually stack other classes). Arcanist is a good bridge class for the middle tier of raiding. Better than oakensoul, not as good as pressing more buttons.
Because playstyle that takes no skill whatsoever shouldn't be any close to normal classes. At some point ZOS nerfed heavy attack build for this reason but heavy attack builds were never as strong as acranist is and are harder to play compared to arcanist
But playing arcanist well does take skill. Playing arcanist average doesn't, but I have seen a LOT of mediocre arcanists in the endgame community.
I've literally seen 50-60K damage gaps in a single run.
Playing arcanist is 90% luck and 10% your skill, it's nowhere near close other classes. If someone is soo bad that they can't even handle arcanist we shouldn't really count them as players to statistics since those are just people who don't even try to play competetetive and are just roleplayers or questers
A 60K DPS difference isn't luck.
If arcanist got outparsed by zenkosh DK by 40k it's a roleplayer I've mentioned above
The dk was in parse gear for this fight. And definitely not a roleplayer, just someone who assumed arcanist was easy.
First of all it IS super easy even now, there is literally nothing you need to know to play this class effectively, the only thing that takes some skill is managing coral riptide but it's not a class specific set, second arcanist will be even easier to play if it goes live like it's currently on PTS, even less skills to cast
The number of people I see sitting on 300 ult as an arcanist, not tracking off balance, over flailing, not bothering to LA at all (bad ult gen), mismanaging resources, not taking synergies, over- or under casting dots, and pointing their beam anywhere but at the giant clump of targets suggests otherwise.
Btw that bottom parsing arc in that pic was me, a few months ago. I found the 60K missing DPS when I learned all of the above, plus some fight specific things like adjusting pen.4 -
Prionyx✭✭✭✭licenturion wrote: »They said combat stuff is next week in the patch notes.
That said, it's not strictly arcanist that needs a nerf but rather its interaction with other skills.
Either that or we need azureblight back. Because right now no matter how much arc is nerfed, beam is gonna be preferred.
Fatecarver needed massive nerfs even before subclassing
Why? Azureblight made other dot based classes competitive in PvE. At the pinnacle of endgame, arcanist was only used for zenas in a lot of content (recent world records have 1-2 arcs max and usually stack other classes). Arcanist is a good bridge class for the middle tier of raiding. Better than oakensoul, not as good as pressing more buttons.
Because playstyle that takes no skill whatsoever shouldn't be any close to normal classes. At some point ZOS nerfed heavy attack build for this reason but heavy attack builds were never as strong as acranist is and are harder to play compared to arcanist
But playing arcanist well does take skill. Playing arcanist average doesn't, but I have seen a LOT of mediocre arcanists in the endgame community.
I've literally seen 50-60K damage gaps in a single run.
Playing arcanist is 90% luck and 10% your skill, it's nowhere near close other classes. If someone is soo bad that they can't even handle arcanist we shouldn't really count them as players to statistics since those are just people who don't even try to play competetetive and are just roleplayers or questers
A 60K DPS difference isn't luck.
If arcanist got outparsed by zenkosh DK by 40k it's a roleplayer I've mentioned above
The dk was in parse gear for this fight. And definitely not a roleplayer, just someone who assumed arcanist was easy.
First of all it IS super easy even now, there is literally nothing you need to know to play this class effectively, the only thing that takes some skill is managing coral riptide but it's not a class specific set, second arcanist will be even easier to play if it goes live like it's currently on PTS, even less skills to cast
The number of people I see sitting on 300 ult as an arcanist, not tracking off balance, over flailing, not bothering to LA at all (bad ult gen), mismanaging resources, not taking synergies, over- or under casting dots, and pointing their beam anywhere but at the giant clump of targets suggests otherwise.
Btw that bottom parsing arc in that pic was me, a few months ago. I found the 60K missing DPS when I learned all of the above, plus some fight specific things like adjusting pen.
The only thing that can possibly be a bit tricky here is not tracking off balance because you need to setup an addon to do it effectively and as I said managing stamina also takes some skill on some encounters that requiere to dodge or/and block, if someone's making other mistakes you've mentioned it's a casual player, beginner or a person with disabilities0 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭licenturion wrote: »They said combat stuff is next week in the patch notes.
That said, it's not strictly arcanist that needs a nerf but rather its interaction with other skills.
Either that or we need azureblight back. Because right now no matter how much arc is nerfed, beam is gonna be preferred.
Fatecarver needed massive nerfs even before subclassing
Why? Azureblight made other dot based classes competitive in PvE. At the pinnacle of endgame, arcanist was only used for zenas in a lot of content (recent world records have 1-2 arcs max and usually stack other classes). Arcanist is a good bridge class for the middle tier of raiding. Better than oakensoul, not as good as pressing more buttons.
Because playstyle that takes no skill whatsoever shouldn't be any close to normal classes. At some point ZOS nerfed heavy attack build for this reason but heavy attack builds were never as strong as acranist is and are harder to play compared to arcanist
But playing arcanist well does take skill. Playing arcanist average doesn't, but I have seen a LOT of mediocre arcanists in the endgame community.
I've literally seen 50-60K damage gaps in a single run.
Playing arcanist is 90% luck and 10% your skill, it's nowhere near close other classes. If someone is soo bad that they can't even handle arcanist we shouldn't really count them as players to statistics since those are just people who don't even try to play competetetive and are just roleplayers or questers
A 60K DPS difference isn't luck.
If arcanist got outparsed by zenkosh DK by 40k it's a roleplayer I've mentioned above
The dk was in parse gear for this fight. And definitely not a roleplayer, just someone who assumed arcanist was easy.
First of all it IS super easy even now, there is literally nothing you need to know to play this class effectively, the only thing that takes some skill is managing coral riptide but it's not a class specific set, second arcanist will be even easier to play if it goes live like it's currently on PTS, even less skills to cast
The number of people I see sitting on 300 ult as an arcanist, not tracking off balance, over flailing, not bothering to LA at all (bad ult gen), mismanaging resources, not taking synergies, over- or under casting dots, and pointing their beam anywhere but at the giant clump of targets suggests otherwise.
Btw that bottom parsing arc in that pic was me, a few months ago. I found the 60K missing DPS when I learned all of the above, plus some fight specific things like adjusting pen.
The only thing that can possibly be a bit tricky here is not tracking off balance because you need to setup an addon to do it effectively and as I said managing stamina also takes some skill on some encounters that requiere to dodge or/and block, if someone's making other mistakes you've mentioned it's a casual player, beginner or a person with disabilities
Bro, most people are just bad at arcanist. Even I was bad at it for a while.
The number of times in open runs that I've heard the raid lead say to people: "Your damage is really low. Did you get stuck in prebuff?" Can't be counted on all 10 fingers and toes.1 -
IdolaDeus✭✭They just kill azureblight so I don't think there'll be a beam nerf. I guess they'll change GLS instead.0 -
alpha_synuclein✭✭✭✭✭Bro, most people are just bad at arcanist. Even I was bad at it for a while.
The number of times in open runs that I've heard the raid lead say to people: "Your damage is really low. Did you get stuck in prebuff?" Can't be counted on all 10 fingers and toes.
If we're talking prebuff, we are already waaay above level of an average player.
My issue with arcanist is that it's floor is so high it doesn't motivate to get better, neither or the arca nor anything else. Beaming more or less in the right direction takes you through everything except serious endgame. Most people are bad at arca because they have zero reasons to improve. After getting used to that playstyle learning how to be efficient on high apm class is a huge jump.4 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭alpha_synuclein wrote: »Bro, most people are just bad at arcanist. Even I was bad at it for a while.
The number of times in open runs that I've heard the raid lead say to people: "Your damage is really low. Did you get stuck in prebuff?" Can't be counted on all 10 fingers and toes.
If we're talking prebuff, we are already waaay above level of an average player.
My issue with arcanist is that it's floor is so high it doesn't motivate to get better, neither or the arca nor anything else. Beaming more or less in the right direction takes you through everything except serious endgame. Most people are bad at arca because they have zero reasons to improve. After getting used to that playstyle learning how to be efficient on high apm class is a huge jump.
It doesn't matter. The entry level to raiding should be doable by everyone. That's how you get more people interested in endgame. One person who I raided with for 2 years started as an oakensorc before trifocus was nerfed, he went on to play arc dd and then learned how to play dk. It's a good progression.
Had a raid cancelled last night because we couldn't find enough parse arcanists. How weird is that?1 -
KekwLord3000✭✭✭Sounds like a whiney post, don't like beam? don't use it.
Alduin and Charles released non beam parses getting 180k.
Stop crying beam is broken, if you don't like it just use an alternative build.
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chongguang✭✭✭I doubet they will give some big nerfs to Arcs as it is a dlc class which related to income. In contrast I would believe they will continue nerf Nb, warden or even sorcerers with.
That is typical zenimax combat adjust style which happened in past years sadly.1 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭chongguang wrote: »I doubet they will give some big nerfs to Arcs as it is a dlc class which related to income. In contrast I would believe they will continue nerf Nb, warden or even sorcerers with.
That is typical zenimax combat adjust style which happened in past years sadly.
It's also an excellent bridge to endgame and I've seen quite a few people start on arc and move on to other classes.KekwLord3000 wrote: »Sounds like a whiney post, don't like beam? don't use it.
Alduin and Charles released non beam parses getting 180k.
Stop crying beam is broken, if you don't like it just use an alternative build.
Those alternative builds will only work in some content. With azureblight DoA I just don't think you can escape beam.0 -
PrinceShroob✭✭✭✭✭chongguang wrote: »I doubet they will give some big nerfs to Arcs as it is a dlc class which related to income.
They have nerfed Warden and Necromancer in the past, and quite significantly.
I don't particularly think Arcanist needs a nerf. Post-Update 35, we really needed an easy-to-play class that required more effort than an Oakensoul build, which was literally holding down one button. Arcanist is prized for its cleave, but is not a top-damage class; the way to indirectly nerf Arcanist is to design content with more single-target fights where Arcanists will struggle to remain competitive with other classes.
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Maggusemm✭✭✭For arcanist you have also to add that it needs to struggle a lot with resources and if you use parsefood you should take also into account that in hard content you do not want to run around with 19k health, so you need somehow to compensate it.
Do not look at the dummy parses with setups which cannot be used in real content.0
