Why the one bar build hate? It needs to stop - some players do not like weapon swapping.

coop500 · April 2

I feel like half this thread doesn't realize tons of Oakensoul builds exist and not all of them are even HA related.

I run all my DPS characters with Oakensoul, and they vary in their play styles. I tried HA once and it felt boring and clunky as hell, so they're all light-attack weaving types. Some melee, some ranged, in all different classes, and yes they do have self heal, a shield, and most provide this to others if standing close (scribing soul burst skill or the mage's guild one depending on the character, as well as other buffs.)

Soarora · April 2

coop500 wrote: »

I feel like half this thread doesn't realize tons of Oakensoul builds exist and not all of them are even HA related.

I run all my DPS characters with Oakensoul, and they vary in their play styles. I tried HA once and it felt boring and clunky as hell, so they're all light-attack weaving types. Some melee, some ranged, in all different classes, and yes they do have self heal, a shield, and most provide this to others if standing close (scribing soul burst skill or the mage's guild one depending on the character, as well as other buffs.)

It’s true that oakensoul isn’t necessarily HA, and I think that was the intention of the mythic anyways. But specifically oakensorc HA is the point of contention as it’s the build that got to be meta for a patch and has several problems (such as having limited trade-offs since it has defense, healing, infinite sustain, AoE, easy rotation…). I’m not sure how good other builds are, on if they do enough damage to do content that these problems of attitudes and damage appear in. I made an oakentemplar with basically just jabs once, was fun but certainly didn’t do enough dps for the content I do.

Edit: side note that I do think different playstyles should be viable but I’m still on the hill that 2-bar HA should be better (and thus, the endgame version of a HA playstyle) than 1-bar HA and it just isn’t as far as I know.

coop500 · April 2

Soarora wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

I feel like half this thread doesn't realize tons of Oakensoul builds exist and not all of them are even HA related.

I run all my DPS characters with Oakensoul, and they vary in their play styles. I tried HA once and it felt boring and clunky as hell, so they're all light-attack weaving types. Some melee, some ranged, in all different classes, and yes they do have self heal, a shield, and most provide this to others if standing close (scribing soul burst skill or the mage's guild one depending on the character, as well as other buffs.)

It’s true that oakensoul isn’t necessarily HA, and I think that was the intention of the mythic anyways. But specifically oakensorc HA is the point of contention as it’s the build that got to be meta for a patch and has several problems (such as having limited trade-offs since it has defense, healing, infinite sustain, AoE, easy rotation…). I’m not sure how good other builds are, on if they do enough damage to do content that these problems of attitudes and damage appear in. I made an oakentemplar with basically just jabs once, was fun but certainly didn’t do enough dps for the content I do.

Edit: side note that I do think different playstyles should be viable but I’m still on the hill that 2-bar HA should be better (and thus, the endgame version of a HA playstyle) than 1-bar HA and it just isn’t as far as I know.

It's hard to say what a pure DPS Oakensoul build (not HA) could do, because I spec for some utility as well in PUGs. I don't run in organized groups most of the time, and if I do, I'm playing a tank or healer with two bars.

When I'm PUGGING (vet or normal), I'm expecting to have to half-solo the thing, and I usually do while doing half the DPS and being the only one providing damage shields to the group.

Pixiepumpkin · April 2

Soarora wrote: »

Edit: side note that I do think different playstyles should be viable but I’m still on the hill that 2-bar HA should be better (and thus, the endgame version of a HA playstyle) than 1-bar HA and it just isn’t as far as I know.

And what would your solution be for folks with high ping who can not reliably manage a rotation (which is based on timing) because of MS fluctuations.

I am unable to change my ping situation, its literally out of my control. Wife and I run one bar because its the most reliable. Should we be put on the bench warmer seat because we cant do the same kind of DPS as a 2 bar rotation? Are we relegated to "casual" guilds who do not run hard content (because so far this is the case).

IMO, and I'll take this to my grave Oakensoul needs to be changed.
• Oakensoul should allow the running of two mythics (Oakensoul + another)
• The Swap bar keybind/button on controller for consoles should be rebound to a 6th ability (6 abilities + ULT).
• Allow back bar passives to carry over to the front bar like they used to.

There has to be a way for ZOS to commit to allowing 1 bar playstyles to compete with 2 bar playstyles. Its not about not wanting to do so, its about the complete inability to do so due to net code.

OR allow 100% account transfers AT A REASONABLE PRICE to be moved anywhere in the world (this wont happen due to different countires laws and whatnot) which is why I suggest that Oakensoul should be buffed.

Even with the top three changes, 2 bar builds will still represent the highest DPS throughput, but would allow 1 bar High Ping players (who do not have the option of running their chosen mythic) to be a heck of a lot closer.

All of that being said, nightblades might become super strong because of all their ability passives that most other classes do not have (some have none).

Renato90085 · April 2

coop500 wrote: »

I feel like half this thread doesn't realize tons of Oakensoul builds exist and not all of them are even HA related.

I run all my DPS characters with Oakensoul, and they vary in their play styles. I tried HA once and it felt boring and clunky as hell, so they're all light-attack weaving types. Some melee, some ranged, in all different classes, and yes they do have self heal, a shield, and most provide this to others if standing close (scribing soul burst skill or the mage's guild one depending on the character, as well as other buffs.)

but if oaken not ha build, you can use Velothi one bar and better…

zaria · April 2

coop500 wrote: »

I feel like half this thread doesn't realize tons of Oakensoul builds exist and not all of them are even HA related.

I run all my DPS characters with Oakensoul, and they vary in their play styles. I tried HA once and it felt boring and clunky as hell, so they're all light-attack weaving types. Some melee, some ranged, in all different classes, and yes they do have self heal, a shield, and most provide this to others if standing close (scribing soul burst skill or the mage's guild one depending on the character, as well as other buffs.)

Yes, have an one bar arcanist setup. Not an fan of HA builds myself as in never managed to get decent dps on them

Soarora · April 2

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Edit: side note that I do think different playstyles should be viable but I’m still on the hill that 2-bar HA should be better (and thus, the endgame version of a HA playstyle) than 1-bar HA and it just isn’t as far as I know.

And what would your solution be for folks with high ping who can not reliably manage a rotation (which is based on timing) because of MS fluctuations.

I am unable to change my ping situation, its literally out of my control. Wife and I run one bar because its the most reliable. Should we be put on the bench warmer seat because we cant do the same kind of DPS as a 2 bar rotation? Are we relegated to "casual" guilds who do not run hard content (because so far this is the case).

IMO, and I'll take this to my grave Oakensoul needs to be changed.
• Oakensoul should allow the running of two mythics (Oakensoul + another)
• The Swap bar keybind/button on controller for consoles should be rebound to a 6th ability (6 abilities + ULT).
• Allow back bar passives to carry over to the front bar like they used to.

There has to be a way for ZOS to commit to allowing 1 bar playstyles to compete with 2 bar playstyles. Its not about not wanting to do so, its about the complete inability to do so due to net code.

OR allow 100% account transfers AT A REASONABLE PRICE to be moved anywhere in the world (this wont happen due to different countires laws and whatnot) which is why I suggest that Oakensoul should be buffed.

Even with the top three changes, 2 bar builds will still represent the highest DPS throughput, but would allow 1 bar High Ping players (who do not have the option of running their chosen mythic) to be a heck of a lot closer.

All of that being said, nightblades might become super strong because of all their ability passives that most other classes do not have (some have none).

High ping impacts more than just barswapping. I would garner that if you can’t barswap due to ping, you’ll probably also have issues with roll dodging/interacting/etc with mechanics on time, which may be fine for most content but wouldn’t work for some such as trifectas and potentially DSR HM. Thus, oakensoul as a fix for this problem doesn’t address the root, which I think is something ZOS should do. I don’t know enough about computers on how high ping could be resolved.
As a side note, it’s not only a DPS race. OakenHA sorc never did more damage than 2-bar builds, they were made meta because their ease, defense, and healing made playing the content easier, leading to less deaths, thus easier trifectas in content that doesn’t have DPS crunches.

Edit: I suppose also could try builds that limit barswapping due to having long DoTs and passives on the backbar. Arcanist is generally built this way, since wall, having crux, and beaming are the most important things. But I’m sure can do something similar with petsorc and probably other classes like necro.

moo_2021 · April 2

It's not about barswapping but keeping up all the buffs while having to react to the surrounding.

As soon as I get hit, the rotation can't be maintained anymore. No idea how people can remember to press A every 4 seconds, B every 6 seconds, C every 10 seconds and so on. One bar builds streamline things and at most I have one buff to keep.

Markytous · April 2

One-bar Builds are fine but if you are using the Lightning Staff Tri-Focus Passive 1shot exploit in Imperial City I'm not gonna appreciate it! @ZOS_Kevin Is there any word that this bug has been acknowledged? Its so widespread that most players I come across in Imperial City run a Lightning Staff.

Vrienda · April 2

Oakensoul kinda saved old classes for me. 2bar builds just feel so clunky and annoying on them.

That said Arcanist is so far above the other classes in terms of playability that it's not even -remotely- close even with Oakensoul. If Class Change tokens ever exist I'm abandoning Dragon Knight, which I've mained for like 8 of the 11 years I've played, in a heartbeat. I'll happily 2bar it too. Hell I'd abandon it now but I like my main to have 100%'d every piece of content I can realistically do, I'm not much of an alt person outside of just levelling and having them around.

moo_2021 · April 2

Markytous wrote: »

One-bar Builds are fine but if you are using the Lightning Staff Tri-Focus Passive 1shot exploit in Imperial City I'm not gonna appreciate it! @ZOS_Kevin Is there any word that this bug has been acknowledged? Its so widespread that most players I come across in Imperial City run a Lightning Staff.

1shot how? The description says "Fully-charged Lightning Staff Heavy Attacks damage nearby enemies for 100% of the damage done."

Unless it's combined with Vicious Death?

Markytous · April 2

moo_2021 wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

One-bar Builds are fine but if you are using the Lightning Staff Tri-Focus Passive 1shot exploit in Imperial City I'm not gonna appreciate it! @ZOS_Kevin Is there any word that this bug has been acknowledged? Its so widespread that most players I come across in Imperial City run a Lightning Staff.

1shot how? The description says "Fully-charged Lightning Staff Heavy Attacks damage nearby enemies for 100% of the damage done."

Unless it's combined with Vicious Death?

If you stand beside their target, which they are heavy attacking, (if it is a monster) their Empower and other bonus effects (potentially even Major Slayer) will tether to you and deliver you that damage. That damage is unmitigated by the Battle Spirit passive which normally would reduce the damage by 50%. It's a major bug that hasn't been patched for years.

Soarora · April 2

moo_2021 wrote: »

It's not about barswapping but keeping up all the buffs while having to react to the surrounding.

As soon as I get hit, the rotation can't be maintained anymore. No idea how people can remember to press A every 4 seconds, B every 6 seconds, C every 10 seconds and so on. One bar builds streamline things and at most I have one buff to keep.

It’s practice. When people learn a new build, they often spend time parsing on a dummy. This is not just to test damage, it’s to learn the rotation so that you can focus more on mechanics in-content with your rotation as muscle memory. There’s also addons that help so you can see the timers (there are base-game timers now too) or even your skill bar better. There’s also some tips and tricks like putting DoTs that have similar timers close together so you just hit them all every time one needs refreshed. There also were (maybe still are?) static rotations where you hit things in a certain order over and over again rather than the more whack-a-mole approach of dynamic rotations.

I refresh buffs when nothings going on or when I notice they’ve run out and if too much is happening I will prioritize casting wall and my spammable over DoTs.

Icy_Waffles · April 2

abkam wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

One bar builds should always be weaker than a two bar build. There should be a dps and survivability loss for not having to bar swap.

And Arcanist should be nerfed by 50%, right? Because with just Banner + one skill + Beam, they can hit 500K—almost the same as the best DK pro players. We can't have everything we want, right?

[snip]

coop500 wrote: »

I feel like half this thread doesn't realize tons of Oakensoul builds exist and not all of them are even HA related.

I run all my DPS characters with Oakensoul, and they vary in their play styles. I tried HA once and it felt boring and clunky as hell, so they're all light-attack weaving types. Some melee, some ranged, in all different classes, and yes they do have self heal, a shield, and most provide this to others if standing close (scribing soul burst skill or the mage's guild one depending on the character, as well as other buffs.)

Sure. I use oaken on my werewolf stam sorc. It doesn’t mean it’s good enough for vet trials. Just solo fun, random normals, and vet dungeons.

[edited for baiting]

Ingenon · April 2

For veteran trials I go back and forth between a two bar Arcanist (with Velothi Ur-Mage) and a one bar HA Sorcerer (with Oakensoul). I have cleared all of the trials on veteran with these builds. But I'm not doing progs for DLC trial hard mode completions. If I put in for vet trial HM prog groups I would expect them to say no Oakensoul one bar builds.

So anyway, I'm not seeing the hate for one bar builds, at least not for the veteran PvE content I am completing (on PS/NA).

coop500 · April 2

Renato90085 wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

I feel like half this thread doesn't realize tons of Oakensoul builds exist and not all of them are even HA related.

I run all my DPS characters with Oakensoul, and they vary in their play styles. I tried HA once and it felt boring and clunky as hell, so they're all light-attack weaving types. Some melee, some ranged, in all different classes, and yes they do have self heal, a shield, and most provide this to others if standing close (scribing soul burst skill or the mage's guild one depending on the character, as well as other buffs.)

but if oaken not ha build, you can use Velothi one bar and better…

MAYBE for DPS and for arcanist, but not for every class/weapon combo, and defo not for any utility/defense. I'd be missing out on loads of buffs.

coop500 · April 2

Icy_Waffles wrote: »

abkam wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

One bar builds should always be weaker than a two bar build. There should be a dps and survivability loss for not having to bar swap.

And Arcanist should be nerfed by 50%, right? Because with just Banner + one skill + Beam, they can hit 500K—almost the same as the best DK pro players. We can't have everything we want, right?

[snip]

coop500 wrote: »

I feel like half this thread doesn't realize tons of Oakensoul builds exist and not all of them are even HA related.

I run all my DPS characters with Oakensoul, and they vary in their play styles. I tried HA once and it felt boring and clunky as hell, so they're all light-attack weaving types. Some melee, some ranged, in all different classes, and yes they do have self heal, a shield, and most provide this to others if standing close (scribing soul burst skill or the mage's guild one depending on the character, as well as other buffs.)

Sure. I use oaken on my werewolf stam sorc. It doesn’t mean it’s good enough for vet trials. Just solo fun, random normals, and vet dungeons.

There is tons and tons of content in this game outside of vet trials, you know.

That's what drives me nuts about people sometimes. Just cause it's not ideal for vet trials, it's trash and nobody should run it!
Guess what? Most people can't do vet trials even with the meta builds, due to needing user skills that not everyone possesses.

[edited to remove quote]

Elvenheart · April 3

Renato90085 wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

abkam wrote: »

WhiteScythe wrote: »

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1jnsg9a/what_do_people_think_about_one_bar_builds/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1jo9x0q/this_subreddit_is_extremely_overrating_oakensoul/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Enough with the hate imo - people will play how they want to play and not meta/min max every damn thing in this game.

There are only two reasons for all this hate toward Oakensoul players:
ZoS allows it. Why? Because if you play with Oakensoul, even if you pay for ESO+ every month, gatekeeping or kicking players out just because of your build is completely fine within the game's rules. Players have the power to decide whether you can play the game or not.

DPS sharing. Addons like Hodor Reflexes and logs should be completely removed and disabled from the game. Why? Because this is the only reason why they hate Oakensoul. Oakensoul will be worse in DPS than perfect weaving players, but it will be better than any player with a bad weaving rotation. In both cases, sharing DPS and logs fuels the hate toward Oakensoul players, whether for being worse or for being better!

I'm so tired of repeating myself, and this makes me feel really sad... But at the end of the day, all this hate is 100% ZoS's fault.

It doesn't require logs or any addons to see if someone is just holding the left mouse button.
Same as it doesn't require logs or addons to see , if someone is a bad dps. You know, bosses and adds have a health bar and it's easy to recognise, if that health is melting or just standing still

yes,we(tank or healer) alway can check first mobs combat and know how dps we have...
in my hm run or a good pug group mobs alway die in 2-5sec,but other pug need 20~40sec

Today in a random dungeon group, we got Exiled Redoubt. I (dps) zoned into the dungeon with 3 others and realized I had left my exp scroll in the bank I wanted to use with the dbl exp event, so while I fumbled getting out my banker, finding the scroll and moving it into my inventory and using it, everybody else had run on ahead to the first set of mobs. By the time I got there Combat Metrics showed my DPS was like 12%. I was afraid I was going to get kicked as a fake DPS, but I didn’t and my numbers were much improved the rest of the dungeon. I guess I was lucky two of the others were experiencing it for the first time. I even got to lead them to the hidden bosses. 😂

Edit to add: I love Combat Metrics, not in order to see what others are doing, but to see what my own damage is percent-wise in relation to the group.

BretonMage · April 3

moo_2021 wrote: »

It's not about barswapping but keeping up all the buffs while having to react to the surrounding.

Agree, for VMA or trying to solo a nDLC dungeon, Oakensoul has been an absolute sanity-saver for me. Not needing to refresh buffs, or keep an eye on potion cooldowns, resources or back bar timers gives me a lot more breathing space to watch for cues/mechanics or just have fun.

I also like the flexibility to HA effectively when my LA or skills somehow don't register (not sure if that's due to a bug or lag?). Or when I have to move a lot due to mechanics.

I still keep up a 2-bar build to practise with, but generally I prefer the flexibility, simplicity and sustain of Oakensoul.

Renato90085 · April 3

Elvenheart wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

abkam wrote: »

WhiteScythe wrote: »

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1jnsg9a/what_do_people_think_about_one_bar_builds/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1jo9x0q/this_subreddit_is_extremely_overrating_oakensoul/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Enough with the hate imo - people will play how they want to play and not meta/min max every damn thing in this game.

There are only two reasons for all this hate toward Oakensoul players:
ZoS allows it. Why? Because if you play with Oakensoul, even if you pay for ESO+ every month, gatekeeping or kicking players out just because of your build is completely fine within the game's rules. Players have the power to decide whether you can play the game or not.

DPS sharing. Addons like Hodor Reflexes and logs should be completely removed and disabled from the game. Why? Because this is the only reason why they hate Oakensoul. Oakensoul will be worse in DPS than perfect weaving players, but it will be better than any player with a bad weaving rotation. In both cases, sharing DPS and logs fuels the hate toward Oakensoul players, whether for being worse or for being better!

I'm so tired of repeating myself, and this makes me feel really sad... But at the end of the day, all this hate is 100% ZoS's fault.

It doesn't require logs or any addons to see if someone is just holding the left mouse button.
Same as it doesn't require logs or addons to see , if someone is a bad dps. You know, bosses and adds have a health bar and it's easy to recognise, if that health is melting or just standing still

yes,we(tank or healer) alway can check first mobs combat and know how dps we have...
in my hm run or a good pug group mobs alway die in 2-5sec,but other pug need 20~40sec

Today in a random dungeon group, we got Exiled Redoubt. I (dps) zoned into the dungeon with 3 others and realized I had left my exp scroll in the bank I wanted to use with the dbl exp event, so while I fumbled getting out my banker, finding the scroll and moving it into my inventory and using it, everybody else had run on ahead to the first set of mobs. By the time I got there Combat Metrics showed my DPS was like 12%. I was afraid I was going to get kicked as a fake DPS, but I didn’t and my numbers were much improved the rest of the dungeon. I guess I was lucky two of the others were experiencing it for the first time. I even got to lead them to the hidden bosses. 😂

Edit to add: I love Combat Metrics, not in order to see what others are doing, but to see what my own damage is percent-wise in relation to the group.

for me,it why i as a tank do pug trial/dungreon alway use group ready check ,but i never care dps in dungreon ,there not very more dps check,I am usually very patient to teach/help with them(the dps not have exp). last month i run fang liar undaunted daily
the pug dps only 45k ,but they want hm for personality,last we use 3 hour but they got hard mode and 2 Bust
but if today the low dps happen in some trial ,like vss we use 2 min claen first mobs, this group cant clean atronach
in first boss and last boss portal mech wipe

Soarora · April 3

coop500 wrote: »

Icy_Waffles wrote: »

abkam wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

One bar builds should always be weaker than a two bar build. There should be a dps and survivability loss for not having to bar swap.

And Arcanist should be nerfed by 50%, right? Because with just Banner + one skill + Beam, they can hit 500K—almost the same as the best DK pro players. We can't have everything we want, right?

[snip]

coop500 wrote: »

I feel like half this thread doesn't realize tons of Oakensoul builds exist and not all of them are even HA related.

I run all my DPS characters with Oakensoul, and they vary in their play styles. I tried HA once and it felt boring and clunky as hell, so they're all light-attack weaving types. Some melee, some ranged, in all different classes, and yes they do have self heal, a shield, and most provide this to others if standing close (scribing soul burst skill or the mage's guild one depending on the character, as well as other buffs.)

Sure. I use oaken on my werewolf stam sorc. It doesn’t mean it’s good enough for vet trials. Just solo fun, random normals, and vet dungeons.

There is tons and tons of content in this game outside of vet trials, you know.

That's what drives me nuts about people sometimes. Just cause it's not ideal for vet trials, it's trash and nobody should run it!
Guess what? Most people can't do vet trials even with the meta builds, due to needing user skills that not everyone possesses.

The vast majority of people do not care whatsoever what builds people use outside of vet trials. That’s why the conversation tends to revolve around vet trials. Normal dungeons and trials are easy. Vet dungeons it’s as long as you’re pulling your weight then whatever. Vet trials can be same way as vet dungeons, depends on who you run with. Overland and solo no one’s gonna even see your build anyways. PvP people only seem to care if you’re good at killing them or good at not dying.

[edited to remove quote]

Pixiepumpkin · April 3

Soarora wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Edit: side note that I do think different playstyles should be viable but I’m still on the hill that 2-bar HA should be better (and thus, the endgame version of a HA playstyle) than 1-bar HA and it just isn’t as far as I know.

And what would your solution be for folks with high ping who can not reliably manage a rotation (which is based on timing) because of MS fluctuations.

I am unable to change my ping situation, its literally out of my control. Wife and I run one bar because its the most reliable. Should we be put on the bench warmer seat because we cant do the same kind of DPS as a 2 bar rotation? Are we relegated to "casual" guilds who do not run hard content (because so far this is the case).

IMO, and I'll take this to my grave Oakensoul needs to be changed.
• Oakensoul should allow the running of two mythics (Oakensoul + another)
• The Swap bar keybind/button on controller for consoles should be rebound to a 6th ability (6 abilities + ULT).
• Allow back bar passives to carry over to the front bar like they used to.

There has to be a way for ZOS to commit to allowing 1 bar playstyles to compete with 2 bar playstyles. Its not about not wanting to do so, its about the complete inability to do so due to net code.

OR allow 100% account transfers AT A REASONABLE PRICE to be moved anywhere in the world (this wont happen due to different countires laws and whatnot) which is why I suggest that Oakensoul should be buffed.

Even with the top three changes, 2 bar builds will still represent the highest DPS throughput, but would allow 1 bar High Ping players (who do not have the option of running their chosen mythic) to be a heck of a lot closer.

All of that being said, nightblades might become super strong because of all their ability passives that most other classes do not have (some have none).

High ping impacts more than just barswapping. I would garner that if you can’t barswap due to ping, you’ll probably also have issues with roll dodging/interacting/etc with mechanics on time, which may be fine for most content but wouldn’t work for some such as trifectas and potentially DSR HM. Thus, oakensoul as a fix for this problem doesn’t address the root, which I think is something ZOS should do. I don’t know enough about computers on how high ping could be resolved.
As a side note, it’s not only a DPS race. OakenHA sorc never did more damage than 2-bar builds, they were made meta because their ease, defense, and healing made playing the content easier, leading to less deaths, thus easier trifectas in content that doesn’t have DPS crunches.

Edit: I suppose also could try builds that limit barswapping due to having long DoTs and passives on the backbar. Arcanist is generally built this way, since wall, having crux, and beaming are the most important things. But I’m sure can do something similar with petsorc and probably other classes like necro.

Agreed it affects more than bar swapping, for example cyrodiil keep doors are extremely difficult to get in while enemies attack and this was in Vengeance.

I don't know how to solve the problem of roll dodging mechanics other than not making them in the first place.

As far as solving the problem with high ping, its not a PC/internet issue (I run a PC that is most likely in the top 10% of ESO players, or better), and I run fiber internet with 700+ speeds.

The issue is living in the EU and playing on NA except that I used to live in NA. ZOS does not allow account transfers and I am not starting from literal scratch to play this game after spending thousands, literal thousands to play it (crown store + ESO plus for every month I have played for almost a decade now). If I am requested to start anew on EU, then I will find a new game.

All I know is that one bar players must be allowed to play that playstyle for a number of reasons.
1. "Play it your way". Except one bar can't in some of the harder content you mention.
2. High Ping, as we discussed is not reliable on a bar swap character.
3. Age: I have seen a fair number of people since 2014 now complain about hands hurting/arthritis due to the constant bar swapping.
4. For some, its simply more fun as it s more reminiscent of traditional MMORPG's

I think another solution is for ZOS to come up with a mythic that allows for back bar buffs to be permanent. Except even in this case you run into the issue of bar bar mechanics like AOE/spell damage that transfers to the front/different weapons. It becomes another issue of running out of abilty slots.

I don't expect, nor want one bar builds with oakensoul to be superior or even exactly equal to 2 bar builds. Two bar builds deserve to carry their own merit, but at the same time one bar players should not be shunned from top tier content like currently happens.

Personally, I would never have designed the game to make the back bar a buff bar. I think new worlds two bar system makes a ton more sense. Where changing to a different weapon changes the playstyle/scenario use and are not really about buffing (although some combos exist due to stunning with one weapon and executing with another).

At the end of the day, one bar should be able to achieve the same achievements as two bar without being "carried" or a burden to the guild/trial run.

colossalvoids · April 3

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Edit: side note that I do think different playstyles should be viable but I’m still on the hill that 2-bar HA should be better (and thus, the endgame version of a HA playstyle) than 1-bar HA and it just isn’t as far as I know.

And what would your solution be for folks with high ping who can not reliably manage a rotation (which is based on timing) because of MS fluctuations.

I am unable to change my ping situation, its literally out of my control. Wife and I run one bar because its the most reliable. Should we be put on the bench warmer seat because we cant do the same kind of DPS as a 2 bar rotation? Are we relegated to "casual" guilds who do not run hard content (because so far this is the case).

IMO, and I'll take this to my grave Oakensoul needs to be changed.
• Oakensoul should allow the running of two mythics (Oakensoul + another)
• The Swap bar keybind/button on controller for consoles should be rebound to a 6th ability (6 abilities + ULT).
• Allow back bar passives to carry over to the front bar like they used to.

There has to be a way for ZOS to commit to allowing 1 bar playstyles to compete with 2 bar playstyles. Its not about not wanting to do so, its about the complete inability to do so due to net code.

OR allow 100% account transfers AT A REASONABLE PRICE to be moved anywhere in the world (this wont happen due to different countires laws and whatnot) which is why I suggest that Oakensoul should be buffed.

Even with the top three changes, 2 bar builds will still represent the highest DPS throughput, but would allow 1 bar High Ping players (who do not have the option of running their chosen mythic) to be a heck of a lot closer.

All of that being said, nightblades might become super strong because of all their ability passives that most other classes do not have (some have none).

High ping impacts more than just barswapping. I would garner that if you can’t barswap due to ping, you’ll probably also have issues with roll dodging/interacting/etc with mechanics on time, which may be fine for most content but wouldn’t work for some such as trifectas and potentially DSR HM. Thus, oakensoul as a fix for this problem doesn’t address the root, which I think is something ZOS should do. I don’t know enough about computers on how high ping could be resolved.
As a side note, it’s not only a DPS race. OakenHA sorc never did more damage than 2-bar builds, they were made meta because their ease, defense, and healing made playing the content easier, leading to less deaths, thus easier trifectas in content that doesn’t have DPS crunches.

Edit: I suppose also could try builds that limit barswapping due to having long DoTs and passives on the backbar. Arcanist is generally built this way, since wall, having crux, and beaming are the most important things. But I’m sure can do something similar with petsorc and probably other classes like necro.

All I know is that one bar players must be allowed to play that playstyle for a number of reasons.
1. "Play it your way". Except one bar can't in some of the harder content you mention.

Respectfully, but this is an issue with the game development recently. Instead of focusing on actual accessibility they've picked up on this, as if giving easy to use DPS focused tools that in many situations can clearly outperform an average build in the hands of an average player funneling them into the play style also doing the same in hands of experienced players or making content an outright joke to complete blurring the lines and the journey players had previously, where you can end up from immortal demigod in one place to useless asses no one wants to play with in the other, breeding estrangement and bitterness. Competitive scene died out precisely because of those blurry lines, new blood isn't the same anymore, their perspective in many cases is skewed and they don't see what's going wrong if everything was fine previously. Attitude is day and night nowadays, actual team players are rare. And older players don't see any achievements in what they have done apart from the very recent trials period, other content was heavily trivialised and some places outright farmed for easy trifectas like CR and AS as glaring examples.

When the middle is essentially cut out you're getting very angry low end and very bitter high end that don't have means to connect. Sorry for my english as I've probably blabbered a bit here but that's how I see it.

The "play how you want" thing is a mantra for the game but players have put it out in too many occasions where it became just a meaningless slogan.
It was all about being able to express yourself and not being restricted to/by a role, armour class or weapon, not about doing so in the very top endgame situations without a proper game knowledge dressing how you like. The further you go the more limited choices are and that's normal, there's a choice always but it's not as broad because it's not only about you, but about the team ultimately and your success as a one well oiled mechanism where your individuality and ego doesn't matter.

GeneralGrundmann · April 3

This topic is about a "you" problem and not a "them" problem.

If you want to play one bar, find a group or form your own group that accepts this playstyle. Your problem is solved.

To expect that someone has to accept your playstyle is presumptuous. You want them to accept your playstyle, but you don't respect their choice of playstyle.

You can't expect acceptance if you are intolerant yourself.

Edit for typo

Pixiepumpkin · April 3

GeneralGrundmann wrote: »

This topic is about a about a "you" problem and not a "them" problem.

If you want to play one bar, find a group or form your own group that accepts this playstyle. Your problem is solved.

To expect that someone has to accept your playstyle is presumptuous. You want them to accept your playstyle, but you don't respect their choice of playstyle.

You can't expect acceptance if you are intolerant yourself.

Do you realize that in your statement the two parties can be swapped and the message stays the same?

GeneralGrundmann · April 3

I'm totally aware of that.

peacenote · April 3

Artim_X wrote: »

IMO Oakensoul hate is not a prevalent issue at this time.

I agree... haven't heard much about this on forums or in game for a long time.

Also, I see very little hate for one bar builds in the quoted links, either. Both topics were clearly started by pro-one build people and most responded positively with only a couple "not my thing" (which isn't even hate) or "not in my trial" (which is negative, but most were polite with reasons).

JaxontheUnfortunate · April 3

As long as it's not a serious score/achievement push I will run a one bar, though will bring a two bar build as a DPS if requested, and will always 2 bar as a healer or tank.

sleepy_worm · April 4

Hyperioxes is all

BretonMage · April 4

Ah, another day, another comment on reddit about Oakensoul users "asking for everything to be brain dead". Lovely.

Which brings us back to the OP, even if the posts they referred to weren't particularly inflammatory in themselves. Because at some point, especially on platforms like reddit, it stops being about the issue, and more about the partisanship.

Though I appreciate that posts here at least have been more moderate in describing the situations for or against its use, instead of resorting to broad insults.