Why the one bar build hate? It needs to stop - some players do not like weapon swapping.

reazea · April 1

One bar builds should always be weaker than a two bar build. There should be a dps and survivability loss for not having to bar swap.

abkam · April 1

reazea wrote: »

One bar builds should always be weaker than a two bar build. There should be a dps and survivability loss for not having to bar swap.

And Arcanist should be nerfed by 50%, right? Because with just Banner + one skill + Beam, they can hit 500K—almost the same as the best DK pro players. [Snip].

[Edited for baiting]

sarahthes · April 1

abkam wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

One bar builds should always be weaker than a two bar build. There should be a dps and survivability loss for not having to bar swap.

And Arcanist should be nerfed by 50%, right? Because with just Banner + one skill + Beam, they can hit 500K—almost the same as the best DK pro players. [Snip]

500K????

[Edited quote]

Renato90085 · April 1

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

But they're pushing it when it comes to running HM. And I don't know anybody who'll run an Oak build in a vet Trial prog group.

In vet progs there are many oaken players and a lot of them is doing well enough.
HMs are trickier, I wouldn't go higher than KA HM for most. But earlier ones are very much an option, as well as easier trifectas.

One bar still can do VKA/VSS/VCR(are they fix bug?) hard mode
But only can finished hm because they lost aoe dmg so can't clean mobs in time
maybe GH still can did,but you need found 3tank and 2 healer who want have 12min pain for a title

One bar builds can’t really do vCR. The “bug” was actually an exploit - unequipping a backbar weapon no longer allows you to just be immune to barswap, so now you can get hit with Relequen’s thing and since you can’t barswap, you will nuke the group. One-bar players will either need to do a two-bar setup or make sure they and the group can outrange each other.

Ah yes,thank answer,but I think we are talk about same exploit
I say this just my guild leader use this bug did GH,and I don't know how this work ,I not have 1 bar build
and this group all guy think one bar should can't do other hard Pve endgame too

sarahthes · April 1

abkam wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

One bar builds should always be weaker than a two bar build. There should be a dps and survivability loss for not having to bar swap.

And Arcanist should be nerfed by 50%, right? Because with just Banner + one skill + Beam, they can hit 500K—almost the same as the best DK pro players. [Snip]

Sir, I don't know where you are pulling your damage numbers from.

500K is not something you see except in a few specific trash pulls or add heavy fights with very specific nuke setups. That is not a typical amount of damage.

This is more representative of a pretty sweaty amount of damage for an arcanist in a more typical fight. (This is my own screenshot of my own damage.) Templar does a bit more in this fight. DK can do more single target as can cro, but arc does a bit more aoe due to how beam and languid interact with the typical sets used.

[Edited quote]

Bithabus · April 1

Most players will do more dps with a one bar build than a 2 bar build. It's just easier to play. These are also not the players doing DLC HM trials and leaderboard stuff. There really is no conflict.

sarahthes · April 1

Bithabus wrote: »

Most players will do more dps with a one bar build than a 2 bar build. It's just easier to play. These are also not the players doing DLC HM trials and leaderboard stuff. There really is no conflict.

Most players who put in no effort, whether unwilling or unable.

It doesn't take much practice to become better than the highest damage a one bar build can put out, provided you have somebody competent helping you.

That's the real issue. Not a lot of resources for improving unless you actively seek them out.

Renato90085 · April 1

abkam wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

One bar builds should always be weaker than a two bar build. There should be a dps and survivability loss for not having to bar swap.

And Arcanist should be nerfed by 50%, right? Because with just Banner + one skill + Beam, they can hit 500K—almost the same as the best DK pro players. [Snip]

This Dps more part is azureblight ,need 3-6 Dps all run this set
If u check log arc st Dps is lowest class
and aoe combat arc dk necro all can do 200k+
and yes,arc/azureblight nerf post have some in forums

[Edited quote]

Stx · April 1

I spend most of my time playing solo. Oakensoul is so much more enjoyable to me because maintaining all those buffs on myself is very tedious and also expensive as often you need potions to cover some of the majors.

5 active abilities without swapping > 5-6 active abilities + 4-5 buff abilities / passive abilities that require bar swapping. It’s just about fun.

Now if only Oakensoul gave you a major breach proc on damage…. One can dream.

alpha_synuclein · April 1

Renato90085 wrote: »

One bar still can do VKA/VSS/VCR(are they fix bug?) hard mode
But only can finished hm because they lost aoe dmg so can't clean mobs in time
maybe GH still can did,but you need found 3tank and 2 healer who want have 12min pain for a title

MoL achi, TTT and IR are definitely possible. As are KA and SS hms. For Cloudrest as long as there is only one or two one bars, hm still should be possible. Not fast and not easy, but possible.

If you measure oaken damage in comparison to arcanists it will obviously look pale. But when I started playing trials the typical GH was 7-8 minutes, far from today's 1 portal mini skip shennanigans.

As for finding people, if you play in relaxed guild and more for social reasons than achievements you might be more patient when things take time.

tomofhyrule · April 1

Renato90085 wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

But they're pushing it when it comes to running HM. And I don't know anybody who'll run an Oak build in a vet Trial prog group.

In vet progs there are many oaken players and a lot of them is doing well enough.
HMs are trickier, I wouldn't go higher than KA HM for most. But earlier ones are very much an option, as well as easier trifectas.

One bar still can do VKA/VSS/VCR(are they fix bug?) hard mode
But only can finished hm because they lost aoe dmg so can't clean mobs in time
maybe GH still can did,but you need found 3tank and 2 healer who want have 12min pain for a title

One bar builds can’t really do vCR. The “bug” was actually an exploit - unequipping a backbar weapon no longer allows you to just be immune to barswap, so now you can get hit with Relequen’s thing and since you can’t barswap, you will nuke the group. One-bar players will either need to do a two-bar setup or make sure they and the group can outrange each other.

Ah yes,thank answer,but I think we are talk about same exploit
I say this just my guild leader use this bug did GH,and I don't know how this work ,I not have 1 bar build
and this group all guy think one bar should can't do other hard Pve endgame too

Yeah, when Oakensoul was released in June 2022 with U34, people could cheese Relequen because anyone with Oakensoul (or transformed Werewolves, or characters below level 15 who haven’t unlocked the second bar yet) would not be eligible for Voltaic Overload. That was changed in March 2023 with U37, which closed that loophole and made those players once again eligible for getting the mechanic.
See the relevant patch note here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7830902/#Comment_7830902

Essentially, there was a 9 month period where you could totally do vCR on an Oakensoul build and were just immune to the mechanic. That meant that full Oakengroups could just get GH easier since one of the main mechanics just didn’t happen. Since that patch two years ago though, Oakensoul builds can get Voltaic, but they can’t barswap to cleanse it and will wipe the group unless all 12 players are perfectly coordinated and can move the AoEs away from each other. As such, it’s best for HA builds to not use Oakensoul in vCR, or at least not when Relequen is around (either as a side by himself or as one of Z’Maja’s minis)

Orbital78 · April 1

I can tell his man likes to torture his supports.

Sindarin · April 1

WhiteScythe wrote: »

Enough with the hate imo - people will play how they want to play and not meta/min max every damn thing in this game.

and others dont have to play with them

spartaxoxo · April 1

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Essentially, there was a 9 month period where you could totally do vCR on an Oakensoul build and were just immune to the mechanic. That meant that full Oakengroups could just get GH easier since one of the main mechanics just didn’t happen. Since that patch two years ago though, Oakensoul builds can get Voltaic, but they can’t barswap to cleanse it and will wipe the group unless all 12 players are perfectly coordinated and can move the AoEs away from each other. As such, it’s best for HA builds to not use Oakensoul in vCR, or at least not when Relequen is around (either as a side by himself or as one of Z’Maja’s minis)

The game does seem to prefer to give the mechanic to 2 bar builds though. It's not zero chance though so they can still wipe the group but it's much lower odds. So, if someone is just going for a clear and doesn't care about the occasional death, having a one bar build along probably won't hurt anything. Just can't be a whole group.

SpiritofESO · April 1

AlwaysDancing wrote: »

#1 - don't listen to peoples opinions on Reddit
#2 - there is no #2

Play the game, have fun, don't worry about the opinions of other.

Thank you. Your words are like a breath of fresh air.

*thumbs up*

ankeor · April 2

You are going to cut your actively used skills from 10 regular + 2 ultimate to 5+1.
Slot a mythic which gives you buffs which you would have gotten anyway in 2 bar set up within a group.
I don't even touch back bar enchants or alternative mythics/monster set you could have use.
Naturally dps ceiling of a 1 bar build will be lower than a 2 bar build.
It is simple logic.

So if I imagine myself as raid leader looking to fill the group I would rather have someone who plays 2 bar builds.
Also people who are not willing to make changes to their build to optimize group efficency are often not great team members.
People like you demand others to accomodate your play style. And you simply can't do it. Decision belongs to the raid leader.

If you want to play the way you desire and not fit to what is currently the best you can gather people and become leader of your own raid.

Castagere · April 2

I have always found the meta players to be funny. The only reason for bar swapping is to play with the meta people. If you mainly solo and do delvs, public dungeons, and story content, you have zero need to bar swap.

DenverRalphy · April 2

Castagere wrote: »

I have always found the meta players to be funny. The only reason for bar swapping is to play with the meta people. If you mainly solo and do delvs, public dungeons, and story content, you have zero need to bar swap.

That's a bit of hyperbole don'tcha think? There are other reasons to run two bars than just to play meta. Bar swapping also provides more flexibility and survivability making it easier to adapt to more situations on the fly than a niche one trick pony build.

I'm by no means bashing one bar builds. It does have its uses. But c'mon, don't go the other extreme either.

Rkindaleft · April 2

Castagere wrote: »

I have always found the meta players to be funny. The only reason for bar swapping is to play with the meta people. If you mainly solo and do delvs, public dungeons, and story content, you have zero need to bar swap.

LOL just bar swapping doesn't automatically mean you're some meta chaser. Bar swapping is a feature of the game that even the most casual of players can pick up within a couple days of playing.

I don't understand the obsession with people who think anyone who ever does literally anything above overland it means they're not a casual player. There are tons of people and guilds who do normal dungeons and trials (or even training runs for veteran trials) that don't have requirements or take gear checks or parse number seriously.

thorwyn · April 2

Castagere wrote: »

I have always found the meta players to be funny. The only reason for bar swapping is to play with the meta people.

Yeah, damn those bar swapping meta chasers. As if wearing oakensoul, sergeant's mail, noble duellist and the same 3 skills, all ripped right off from some xynode video is the epitome of a creative, against-the-stream, non-meta game style.
Don't flatter yourself. The army of one bar builds is just as "chasing meta" as any other build you didn't come up with on you own.

Renato90085 · April 2

Castagere wrote: »

I have always found the meta players to be funny. The only reason for bar swapping is to play with the meta people. If you mainly solo and do delvs, public dungeons, and story content, you have zero need to bar swap.

but we met HA sorc have 90% is same build from new meta video,
so 2 year ago ,1 bar build is meta ,and now still meta in dungreon trifecta(3 HA sroc or 3arc dd) , guild vdsr run still have 1bar meta(yellow buff)because you are hard found 8dps who can skip 3 bridge and evey dd can do 100k+ ,
and i never dont know why not just finish bridge

frogthroat · April 2

Castagere wrote: »

I have always found the meta players to be funny. The only reason for bar swapping is to play with the meta people.

This is a bit of an exaggeration. When you are used to bar swapping you don't really think about it. It comes from muscle memory. Plenty of off-meta builds, niche builds, and meme builds use two bars.

Castagere wrote: »

If you mainly solo and do delvs, public dungeons, and story content, you have zero need to bar swap.

But yes, this playstyle is great with one bar builds. When I am questing, doing harvest maps, explore a new zone, I also use a one bar build. And yes, no need to bar swap in this kind of content.

Some DLC public dungeon bosses - especially group event bosses, and some DLC zone world bosses can be done with one bar but are just easier with an optimised two bar build. I like to go with the method that is the easiest and when the boss gets more health and the fight gets longer, at some point one bar build becomes grinding and two bar with higher dps becomes the easier method.

In any case, for your playstyle HA Oakensoul builds work perfectly fine. Hardly a need to make a separate two bar build just to make the odd DLC world boss fight tiny bit faster. But it doesn't mean that two bars automatically means meta.

Khanmorte · April 2

There is a large amount of misinformation around Oakensoul Mythic, One bar builds, and Heavy Attack builds. I suspect since most people do not retest equipment and sets on a regular basis after major changes they then repeat second hand knowledge without being aware that there are now more options.

Due to how the Oakensoul Mythic works all Oakensoul builds are one bar builds, but they do not have to be heavy attack builds. Heavy attack builds do not have to use Oakensoul Mythic or be one bar builds. Due to new tech from ZOS over the last 3 years since the Oakensoul Mythic was released it is now possible to make one bar builds or heavy attack builds or one bar heavy attack builds that perform better without the Oakensoul mythic than with it.

When the Arcanist released we also got the tech that allowed buffs to apply regardless of which bar you were on. This was expanded to many of the other classes as well. Right now, you can create a Nightblade with an almost fully passive back bar that applies abilities while your front bar is the only active bar. Technically you have a 2 bar build but you never have to swap to the back bar.

With the release of Scribing, many of the minor buffs provided by the Oakensoul Ring can be sourced from scribed skills. 2 of the scribed skills particularly are useful. Ulfsilds Contingency is in the mages guild tree and casting it gives Empower for 10s due to the mages guild passive and you can use it provide Major Brutality/Sorcery/or Major Prophecy/Savagery or various other minor buffs that are provided by the Oakensoul mythic. The second scribed skill that supports the one bar style of play is Banner Bearer which provides access amongst other things to Minor Heroism, as well as damage buffs. Interestingly its major drawback is negated by a heavy attack build.

TLDR; You do not need the Oakensoul mythic to make a one bar build, a heavy attack build or a one-bar heavy attack build. It is a tool in the toolbox to enable those playstyles but we have been provided with additional options over the last few years which often outperform Oakensoul in one bar, heavy attack or a one-bar heavy attack builds. Holding on to the Oakensoul Mythic as the only way to do one bar or heavy attack builds is unproductive, use all the tools in the toolbox.

As for one bar Oakensoul builds, I have completed all trials on normal and the majority of the vet trials with a one-bar Oakensoul Arcanist DPS, and contributed between 8 and 25% of the groups DPS depending on group composition, whether I was portal DPS, etc. The use of one-bar or heavy attack builds with or without Oakensoul is not a useful proxy to determine skill.

Thanks for reading my Ted Talk

robwolf666 · April 2

WhiteScythe wrote: »

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1jnsg9a/what_do_people_think_about_one_bar_builds/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1jo9x0q/this_subreddit_is_extremely_overrating_oakensoul/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Enough with the hate imo - people will play how they want to play and not meta/min max every damn thing in this game.

I've only ever used one bar builds, if other people don't like it, tough monkey doodoo. I play for my enjoyment, not theirs.

twisttop138 · April 2

My wife uses oakensoul, though not a heavy attack. She likes to do overland and it was cool to help her feel more powerful. I always saw it like that. In my opinion it's like a stepping stone. If or when she wants to progress to dungeons or trials, the ring will come off and we'll get real with a build. If you need to wear it or want to wear it in group content that's totally ok too. My casual guild that does normal teaching runs every week is cool with it. You just gotta find your people man. My vet trials guild doesn't really like it and that's ok too. All play styles are welcome, you just gotta find your people. They're out there.

ElvenOverlord · April 2

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Of course people can play how they want to play. It's just that if they join a group and they underperform in their precious one-bar builds, we get to kick them because we play how we want to play: not carrying some buffoon!

Look, when you join a group, you are expected to carry your own weight. Any amount of damage you aren't able to do, the rest of the group has to deal with in the form of longer fight times, more mechanics, more chances of death, and more chances at wiping. So if you bring your Oakensoul build into a trial and you deal at least around average dps in the group, you're golden. But if you start to fall behind, people will start questioning your build.

Harsh but true.

darvaria · April 2

I guess it can be done in PVE @Khanmorte shows. But I can see where one bar builds might complicate some PVE groups. Especially trials. (but I'm sure I wouldn't contribute 25% of damage in ANY group ... probably not even 8%) TBH I wouldn't even consider joining a trial group with a one bar build (unless every person in it said ok and you were friends/guild group) But in PVP, if you solo at Cyrodiil, a one bar build is still feasible IF you don't expect to excell at all 3: dps, heal, tank. You might do the arenas and archives with a one bar build but it seems I did those on pure pve builds, not a one bar.

For a time, one bar builds dominated PVP ... before ZOS nerfed Oakensoul (after they got everyone to buy the DLC I might add). I wish they would return it. The major heroism buff was huge.

Haven't played my one bar much since that nerf ... might try it with some different gear sets and see how it performs now. I'm still thinking that w/o the major heroism buff, might not be that effective but I do see some one bar pvp builds around on tips sites so I think solo with a companion, one bar PVE still works.

ZOS_Volpe · April 2

Greetings,

We have recently removed some baiting comments as well as some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for your understanding.

CalamityCat · April 2

Can't say I've ever been kicked for using a HA build or Oakensoul, but then I deliberately avoid those groups who are really into gatekeeping who comes into their trial groups etc. Not because I can't keep up with them, I just have no interest in chasing numbers or jumping through their choice of hoops. I prefer doing trials with my guilds.

If someone starts a group, they're allowed to choose who they run with. All my chars are on two bars now anyway, but I would be quite happy if a group kicked/rejected me if I don't match their "ideals". I prefer being out with groups that are fun and friendly, not being snarky about a player's build/gear based on their (sometimes limited) understanding. There are more constructive ways to speak to a player when you think they could be getting better results with a different build.

Elrond87 · April 2

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Of course people can play how they want to play. It's just that if they join a group and they underperform in their precious one-bar builds, we get to kick them because we play how we want to play: not carrying some buffoon!

Look, when you join a group, you are expected to carry your own weight. Any amount of damage you aren't able to do, the rest of the group has to deal with in the form of longer fight times, more mechanics, more chances of death, and more chances at wiping. So if you bring your Oakensoul build into a trial and you deal at least around average dps in the group, you're golden. But if you start to fall behind, people will start questioning your build.

yep just make sure you are doing 12.5% of group dmg as dd