Why the one bar build hate? It needs to stop - some players do not like weapon swapping.

WhiteScythe · April 1

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1jnsg9a/what_do_people_think_about_one_bar_builds/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1jo9x0q/this_subreddit_is_extremely_overrating_oakensoul/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Enough with the hate imo - people will play how they want to play and not meta/min max every damn thing in this game.

HatchetHaro · April 1

Of course people can play how they want to play. It's just that if they join a group and they underperform in their precious one-bar builds, we get to kick them because we play how we want to play: not carrying some buffoon!

Look, when you join a group, you are expected to carry your own weight. Any amount of damage you aren't able to do, the rest of the group has to deal with in the form of longer fight times, more mechanics, more chances of death, and more chances at wiping. So if you bring your Oakensoul build into a trial and you deal at least around average dps in the group, you're golden. But if you start to fall behind, people will start questioning your build.

valenwood_vegan · April 1

I mean, I don't think anyone is going to stop people on reddit from having opinions. I use oakensoul builds all the time and no one ever bothers me about it, particularly once they see that I actually perform. I did a couple trials in my social guild and now they request me every week. Of course it's group content, not solo, so I also don't get angry and demand to use an oakensoul build if we're doing a run where something else is needed. They let me play how I want but I also adapt to what's needed, that's how groups work. But I play with friends and guildies mostly, not random people from reddit, so I suppose results may vary. Thing is, we can all play how we want, but other players also aren't required to like how we play and aren't required to play with us. It's best to meet some like minded people.

Wuduwasa13 · April 1

Free speech 🙃

AlwaysDancing · April 1

#1 - don't listen to peoples opinions on Reddit
#2 - there is no #2

Play the game, have fun, don't worry about the opinions of other.

coop500 · April 1

Yeah it's nuts to see people suggest Oakensoul is only good for overland questing. Like whaaaat? That's insane.

spartaxoxo · April 1

They campaigned to get them nerfed for damage because they don't like the playstyle. Such people aren't ever going to want to run with heavy attack build users. It's best to ignore them and form your own group.

silentseashore · April 1

The second link you posted is taken entirely out of context. The thread was made to showcase that Oakensoul is very overrated as the 'one-bar de facto choice'. Nowhere in there did the OP (he also made a video explaining it) was 'hating' on a one-bar playstyle, neither was he advocating for a 2-bar gameplay.

Also if you don't like to weapon-swap, don't. No one running any serious content is going to expend energy 'hating' you for it. They're simply not going to roster you for their content, which you're not suitable for.
Just play with people who doesn't care and you're golden.

Artim_X · April 1

IMO Oakensoul hate is not a prevalent issue at this time.

Galiferno · April 1

You should actually read the second thread you posted. The OP actually gives advice on even better one bar builds(at least in certain situations). That's anything but hating.

Renato90085 · April 1

no,review back
two years ago, pug meta was 2 tanks and 10 one bar sorc...
and later Oakensoul nerfed and zos add a other op class in game
now is 2tank 8 arc 2 healer
the ppl just blindly pursuing overpower things and easy thing arc better than Oakensoul and same easy
but if you ask me ,one bar players bad ratio is more,because new player first toon alway 1bar or arc,but if you just want do vet or some easy hardmode(kahm),i will welocme

Renato90085 · April 1

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They campaigned to get them nerfed for damage because they don't like the playstyle. Such people aren't ever going to want to run with heavy attack build users. It's best to ignore them and form your own group.

I think it's more of a cycle.
Oakensoul,necro,wading Kilt,poe(healer mythic),malacath ring...etc
zos alway add some newmeta thing and wait they ready add other and nerfed old,so we can expect nerf arc and Velothi
if they ready make a new class

DreamyLu · April 1

For me, there are two aspects:
- Each is free of his/her way to play.
- Certain activities are played in teams, we then depend on others and they depend on us.

For team activities- especially for harder ones - we are no more entirely free because we need to work together with the others for a good overall performance. If one doesn't bring what it needs to achieve this result, the risk of failure is higher.

From there, it's a matter of own choice. When we join a team, either we provide what is expected by our role (equipment, skill rotation and so on...), or we bring something different, what is very much OK, but then we must live with the consequences, that can be highly positive if it's a win, or badly negative if it fails due to us.

This debate exists in all games and on my opinion, will never end.

On my side, a long while ago, I have been so tired of the hassle happening each time members of a team didn't match together, that I changed my way: For the harder activities, I play with guildies only, or with friends with same play style than me.
Otherwise, I very rarely pug. When it happens, it's for easier activities with smaller team, when I know that I'm strong enough to compensate for potential weaknesses.

In the end, if pugging, I believe that the best possible way is to be clear when advertising for a team in group finder, so that it's transparent from the start what is expected. Like for example "xxx class mandatory" or "all welcome" or "will do story" and so on. It helps a lot.

colossalvoids · April 1

Went for the links but didn't noticed any hate but how one of the OP's is hating PvP for some reason. People are allowed to have any opinions though, they're equal customers to you. If one think it's harmful feature in some ways that's just as legit as you supporting it. Your freedom ends when other's freedom starts so to say.

slt101880b14_ESO · April 1

I'll admit. I play 1-bar primarily because I feel the bar swapping mechanics are too clunky. But that's just my humble opinion.

thorwyn · April 1

Enough with the hate imo - people will play how they want to play and not meta/min max every damn thing in this game.

Noone is stopping you. If min/maxing is not your cup of tea, that's perfectly fine. But keep in mind, that you chosing your play style does not mean that other people are obliged to invite you into their group. Play how you want is not a one way street.

Major_Mangle · April 1

I think it's very simple: Oakensoul setups just don't meet the expectations of a lot of PvE groups that want to do more challenging content. It's got nothing to do with gatekeepers or being "toxic". You can play however you like but that goes for others as well. Certain groups will have different expectations of you and you either adapt and adjust or you don't (and go with whatever consequences that brings).

And there are two very simple solutions to said "problem":
1. Find groups/communities that don't care what kind of setups you run
2. Make your own group that is less strict with gear/setup requirements.

Thysbe · April 1

abkam wrote: »

[*] DPS sharing. Addons like Hodor Reflexes and logs should be completely removed and disabled from the game. Why? Because this is the only reason why they hate Oakensoul. Oakensoul will be worse in DPS than perfect weaving players, but it will be better than any player with a bad weaving rotation. In both cases, sharing DPS and logs fuels the hate toward Oakensoul players, whether for being worse or for being better!
[/list]

yeah - all this hate based on facts.

DPS share is probably the best way to convince a group, that the oakensoul is not a bad as they assume. If a good player (not just lighting staff HA 20m away from the group) uses a one bar, they might as well perform en par with most of the players in an average group.

play as you want goes both ways and its fascinating how people who are not willing to adapt to their group and the playstyle expect exactly what they reuse to do from others.

RealLoveBVB · April 1

abkam wrote: »

WhiteScythe wrote: »

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1jnsg9a/what_do_people_think_about_one_bar_builds/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1jo9x0q/this_subreddit_is_extremely_overrating_oakensoul/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Enough with the hate imo - people will play how they want to play and not meta/min max every damn thing in this game.

[Snip]

It doesn't require logs or any addons to see if someone is just holding the left mouse button.
Same as it doesn't require logs or addons to see , if someone is a bad dps. You know, bosses and adds have a health bar and it's easy to recognise, if that health is melting or just standing still

[Edited quote]

abkam · April 1

These are just some logs from one of the most toxic Discord servers around.
They all use 2-bar setups... and someone is being carried by others.

vRG HM – ESO Logs(Top DPS: 220k, Last DPS: 100k) and so on...
vDSR HM – ESO Logs (Top DPS: 100k, Last DPS: 46k) and so on...
vDSR – ESO Logs (Top DPS: 117k, Last DPS: 57k) and so on...
vAS – ESO Logs (Top DPS: 91k, Last DPS: 36k) and so on...

This proves only one thing (or maybe absolutely nothing). There's always someone getting carried by others. And if we focus only on the last three logs, I can say with 100% certainty:

HA Oakensoul build will NOT be in last place. 100% sure.

EDIT:
By the way, I love seeing really good players with 2 bars carrying others in 2 bars. I just love it!

RealLoveBVB · April 1

abkam wrote: »

These are just some logs from one of the most toxic Discord servers around.
They all use 2-bar setups... and someone is being carried by others.

vRG HM – ESO Logs(Top DPS: 220k, Last DPS: 100k) and so on...
vDSR HM – ESO Logs (Top DPS: 100k, Last DPS: 46k) and so on...
vDSR – ESO Logs (Top DPS: 117k, Last DPS: 57k) and so on...
vAS – ESO Logs (Top DPS: 91k, Last DPS: 36k) and so on...

This proves only one thing (or maybe absolutely nothing). There's always someone getting carried by others. And if we focus only on the last three logs, I can say with 100% certainty:

HA Oakensoul build will NOT be in last place. 100% sure.

EDIT:
By the way, I love seeing really good players with 2 bars carrying others in 2 bars. I just love it!

You need to learn how to read logs. Guys with low dps in high end groups are most likely the MVPs, as they are the ones with dps-support sets and playing mechs.
If you have to go to portals or have to interrupt stuff, then of course you won't make high dps- but you made sure others can parse.

Renato90085 · April 1

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

abkam wrote: »

WhiteScythe wrote: »

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1jnsg9a/what_do_people_think_about_one_bar_builds/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1jo9x0q/this_subreddit_is_extremely_overrating_oakensoul/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Enough with the hate imo - people will play how they want to play and not meta/min max every damn thing in this game.

There are only two reasons for all this hate toward Oakensoul players:
ZoS allows it. Why? Because if you play with Oakensoul, even if you pay for ESO+ every month, gatekeeping or kicking players out just because of your build is completely fine within the game's rules. Players have the power to decide whether you can play the game or not.

DPS sharing. Addons like Hodor Reflexes and logs should be completely removed and disabled from the game. Why? Because this is the only reason why they hate Oakensoul. Oakensoul will be worse in DPS than perfect weaving players, but it will be better than any player with a bad weaving rotation. In both cases, sharing DPS and logs fuels the hate toward Oakensoul players, whether for being worse or for being better!

I'm so tired of repeating myself, and this makes me feel really sad... But at the end of the day, all this hate is 100% ZoS's fault.

It doesn't require logs or any addons to see if someone is just holding the left mouse button.
Same as it doesn't require logs or addons to see , if someone is a bad dps. You know, bosses and adds have a health bar and it's easy to recognise, if that health is melting or just standing still

yes,we(tank or healer) alway can check first mobs combat and know how dps we have...
in my hm run or a good pug group mobs alway die in 2-5sec,but other pug need 20~40sec

thorwyn · April 1

This proves only one thing (or maybe absolutely nothing). There's always someone getting carried by others.

OR! It proves that some people are playing support DDs, sacrificing a huge chunk of DPS by wearing certain sets, playing certain mechanics and providing certain buff which makes those top DPS numbers possible in the first place. That's oragized group play in contrast to "this is my setup, i refuse to play something else, deal with it"

abkam · April 1

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

You need to learn how to read logs. Guys with low dps in high end groups are most likely the MVPs, as they are the ones with dps-support sets and playing mechs.
If you have to go to portals or have to interrupt stuff, then of course you won't make high dps- but you made sure others can parse.

If they all go into the HA build, they will perform better for sure. ESO Log

Oh wait... they’re all support DPS carrying the healers. Okay! My bad.

There's always someone getting carried by others.

Renato90085 · April 1

abkam wrote: »

These are just some logs from one of the most toxic Discord servers around.
They all use 2-bar setups... and someone is being carried by others.

vRG HM – ESO Logs(Top DPS: 220k, Last DPS: 100k) and so on...
vDSR HM – ESO Logs (Top DPS: 100k, Last DPS: 46k) and so on...
vDSR – ESO Logs (Top DPS: 117k, Last DPS: 57k) and so on...
vAS – ESO Logs (Top DPS: 91k, Last DPS: 36k) and so on...

This proves only one thing (or maybe absolutely nothing). There's always someone getting carried by others. And if we focus only on the last three logs, I can say with 100% certainty:

HA Oakensoul build will NOT be in last place. 100% sure.

EDIT:
By the way, I love seeing really good players with 2 bars carrying others in 2 bars. I just love it!

some tip,in pveendgame only best 2bar dps can play sup dps(ec necro /alk zen dk/mk sorc) because they only lost few dps
like my sorc can parse 134k,but i need buff my group so i run mk(8%)+scribing spam(8%)+sorc ult(10%),and give arc 6% crit change but same time i cant have(my pot i hate you)
and i still can use mk/rele do 121k parse

and vdsrhm very low because dome mech,they go do mech(bash or kill boss summer weapon) so they lost dps, and no dome mean you only 10%dps(if u parse 100k ,it be 10k

Icy_Waffles · April 1

It doesn’t need to stop. It’s just a crutch for most. Most one bars are heavy attack only and it’s so boring to play with, brings no group utility, and has lower dps compared to two bar.

abkam · April 1

Icy_Waffles wrote: »

It doesn’t need to stop. It’s just a crutch for most. Most one bars are heavy attack only and it’s so boring to play with, brings no group utility, and has lower dps compared to two bar.

You're talking about "Mostly one-bar" players, so we should make a group with "Mostly two-bar" players, right? I think it's not fair to compare "Mostly one-bar" players to pro players in two bars—that wouldn't be fair, right?

Let's make a group where everyone is at a similar level.

Invite me to your group. Let's play! Then I'll post the logs. More action, less talking. 😊

Then you can prove what you’re saying: “lower DPS compared to two-bar,” and I’ll shut up and agree with you. But only if you actually prove it, because I can prove my point anytime, in any trial.

SilverIce58 · April 1

Why did you bring this to the forums? If it was threads from Reddit then you should have shared it there instead of here where who knows how many people don't use Reddit.

BananaBender · April 1

abkam wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

You need to learn how to read logs. Guys with low dps in high end groups are most likely the MVPs, as they are the ones with dps-support sets and playing mechs.
If you have to go to portals or have to interrupt stuff, then of course you won't make high dps- but you made sure others can parse.

If they all go into the HA build, they will perform better for sure. ESO Log

Oh wait... they’re all support DPS carrying the healers. Okay! My bad.

There's always someone getting carried by others.

Doing your role is not the same as getting carried. Support DD's role is to provide debuffs which the healer's and tanks can't provide, since there is only 4 of them (which means only 8 sets in total). This will come at the cost of their damage being lower, but their groups damage being higher.
HA builds do not fit into the support DD category, since they don't provide anything to the group that a 2 bar build wouldn't just do better. The only fair comparison you can make is between a HA build, and a full parse build and in even remotely organized group the HA build will not stand a chance.

Pixiepumpkin · April 1

IMO ZOS needs to buff oakensoul, bring it back to some semblance of its former glory.

My suggestion. Keep the buffs as they are, but allow for one more slot. Use the keybind on PC/console that swaps bars for that extra ability.

The most frustrating thing I find about oakensoul is the lack of that one extra ability

The way I see it, any build should have an
• Execute
• Spamable
• Heal
• Shield
• Dot
• Ult

We should add one for
• Utility (pull, taunt, stun, etc)

Most of my toons are one bar builds, and its not due to disliking bar swapping in as much as my ping is terrible and bar swapping is not reliable.

If the above suggestion is too much for some people who will claim it will be "OP" (which it wont) then the minimum ZOS could do is allow back bar passives to affect the front bar like it used to.

twisttop138 · April 1

Galiferno wrote: »

You should actually read the second thread you posted. The OP actually gives advice on even better one bar builds(at least in certain situations). That's anything but hating.

I watched that video yesterday and thought he made some good points. I didn't hear any hate.

My wife uses oakensoul for questing now but not as heavy attack. She has hand problems, and it made her feel a bit more powerful. That's cool. When she wants to get into group content with me, we'll ditch it and get her real gear. If it's your play style, cool. I run with my main guild in super casual normal trainer trials to help people learn. Where sorry is a bad word. Every build is welcome. I also run vet trials with other guilds where it's stated pretty clearly that if you wanna run a heavy attack oakensoul build, ask. I don't see hate but I think if you wanna run harder content, you either make your own group with your own rules or you follow the rules and pull your weight. Cause that's their play style. We can ALL coexist. Try not to worry so much. (In general, not the person I quoted)