Werewolves are broken

Darkness734 · March 29

[snip] Ill be making in game reports also. I am a paying eso+ member and ive played off and on since launch. My main thing is I Love to play werewolf. I like to play in groups and solo. As EVERYONE CAN SEE NO ONE PLAYS WEREWOLF. Since stamina Dk switched to poison damage they are easily killed in every pvp lobby unless youre basically a tank. That leaves PVE and still NO ONE PLAYS WEREWOLF. Like I love to but the other members of my group basically think im throwing if i do and obviously my DPS is always Sub par. Now I know why

There's so many problems with werewolves but the first is that they LOSE ACCESS TO WEAPON PASSIVES. WHY??? can a moderator tell me a detailed reason why when no other form shift loses access to them??? That would make playing one viable. As of right now I specced into penetration to help my DPS and I just found out I basically lose all of it. Sure WW gets like 20% free extra damage but I lose all my penetrations???? like what damage buff do I really get if ALL OF IT GET MITIGATED?

I have other suggestions to make them more viable. They should take the taunt off the roar and place it on feral pounce. No one uses the other morph they only use brutal pounce. WW form is basically infinite if youre in combat so a leap extending time is nice but if they add taunt to it that would free up the choice between savagery buff and major protection on the roar for all WW players.

Please people chime in to help my case. If they dont fix this ill probably go back into hibernation and not pay or play for a long while. This is such a logically easy fix to implement.44

[edited for demand/threat]

Darkness734 · March 29

I also think they should just make major berserk always active or be able to be activated even when youre not at full health, especially if they dont plan to fix the weapon passives working

IncultaWolf · March 29

Werewolves definitely need some love, it's my favorite thing to play other than necromancer, but it's SO far behind any other play style in the game. Having access to a grimoire for scribing would help a lot. I think Hircine's Fortitude should have a heal over time and Rage morph should give major berserk at any health % and scale off weapon/spell damage. Wardens already have this choice with polar wind/arctic blast. Why can't werewolf have something similar?

dark_hunterxmg · March 29

Allow weapon passives.

Return the snare back to the dire wolves.

Reduce the cost of Hircine's Bounty to 4200 magika (down from 5700) and add a heal over time. If heal over time is not added, then add a unique health recovery buff of 3000.
Hircine's Rage should not require 100% health to gain Major Berserk. (Gaining this buff in combat is impossible.)

Reduce the 25% poison damage penalty.

Add execute scaling to Infectious Claws.
Return the heal from Claws of Life to its full value.

Remove the double cast on Pounce and apply the Carnage dot on impact.

Reduce fall damage taken by 50%

Allow werewolves to sneak. (Every other player can enter sneak, including the ones with large Banner Bearer flag on top of their character.)

Increase the range of Roar to 7m to counter position desync.
Add Major prophecy/ savagery to both morphs of Roar.
Fix Ferocious Roar so that the first heavy attack is also 33% faster.

Stop counting the sound wave from Piercing Howl as a projectile.

katanagirl1 · March 29

It doesn’t make sense to have weapon passives if you aren’t using weapons.

Tommy_The_Gun · March 29

katanagirl1 wrote: »

It doesn’t make sense to have weapon passives if you aren’t using weapons.

Well, they have weapons equipped and glyphs or poisons still do work. They get different stats if they have One Hand and Shield, Two Handed weapon or Dual Wield. WWs also do have armour passives, but they don't really "visually" wear any armour... but gear sets bonus still do work.

Having armour passives & using armour slots bonuses for gear sets but not having weapons passives, but using weapon glyphs, poisons and weapon slot bonus for sets is just inconsistent. Just like armour, the weapon is still technically "equipped". Besides... it is not like it would make WW hyper strong or something. I doubt they would even approach B tier even if they had weapon passives.

BixenteN7Akantor · March 29

Darkness734 wrote: »

[snip] Ill be making in game reports also. I am a paying eso+ member and ive played off and on since launch. My main thing is I Love to play werewolf. I like to play in groups and solo. As EVERYONE CAN SEE NO ONE PLAYS WEREWOLF. Since stamina Dk switched to poison damage they are easily killed in every pvp lobby unless youre basically a tank. That leaves PVE and still NO ONE PLAYS WEREWOLF. Like I love to but the other members of my group basically think im throwing if i do and obviously my DPS is always Sub par. Now I know why

There's so many problems with werewolves but the first is that they LOSE ACCESS TO WEAPON PASSIVES. WHY??? can a moderator tell me a detailed reason why when no other form shift loses access to them??? That would make playing one viable. As of right now I specced into penetration to help my DPS and I just found out I basically lose all of it. Sure WW gets like 20% free extra damage but I lose all my penetrations???? like what damage buff do I really get if ALL OF IT GET MITIGATED?

I have other suggestions to make them more viable. They should take the taunt off the roar and place it on feral pounce. No one uses the other morph they only use brutal pounce. WW form is basically infinite if youre in combat so a leap extending time is nice but if they add taunt to it that would free up the choice between savagery buff and major protection on the roar for all WW players.

Please people chime in to help my case. If they dont fix this ill probably go back into hibernation and not pay or play for a long while. This is such a logically easy fix to implement.

Oh yeah Werewolf isn't popular.
I really realized that when I started checking Werewolf's skills and passives on UESP and they were in dire need of information. I did as best as I could to edit their pages with info but some intel is only known to very few werewolf players and werewolf itself is sometimes bugged so I haven't finished editing the pages.
If you know weird stuff about werewolf you can edit yourself on UESP or pm me

[edited to remove quote]

Darkness734 · March 30

Awesome ideas everyone. I just want this buffed a little to a playable state

I hope they see this and do something. Theres no reason it shouldn't even be B tier or even looked down upon by literally everyone

Darkness734 · March 30

just submitted my third ticket

huskandhunger · March 30

Let Piercing Roar bypass physical resistances.

For Claws of Life, just decouple the healing from damage dealt and gives us a flat value of 1000 a second that doesn't get reduced by battle spirit.

Combine the execute damage portion of Carnage into the initial pounce itself so that it feels fun to leap and play again.

Restore the 10,000 armor passive werewolf had, or create some other unique defensive options like with a heal over time on Claws of Life or Hircine's Fortitude.

Hircine's Bounty and morphs reduce the cost of this ability.

Whoever designed the werewolf behemoth abilities did a great job creating a heavy, ferocious, smack around style, -- think ground slams, charging on all forms and massive aoe damage -- give this semblance to the werewolf ultimate experience too.

huskandhunger · March 30

katanagirl1 wrote: »

It doesn’t make sense to have weapon passives if you aren’t using weapons.

We get armor passives being nekkid too and that doesn't make sense either, so sense is irrelevant and we should have access to the same weapon passives that other transformations keep in their forms like Vampire and Bone Goliath ultimates.

huskandhunger · March 30

@ZOS_Kevin can you throw a dog a bone and let us know that is on the radar?

We have been having difficulty across all content in both PVE and PVP and have really fallen behind in general functions for each.

Celas_Dranacea · March 30

Werewolf main here. Currently werewolf is known as something people play if they are willing to fight with one hand tied behind their back. That says a lot. Throw us a bone here ZOS

katanagirl1 · March 30

huskandhunger wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

It doesn’t make sense to have weapon passives if you aren’t using weapons.

We get armor passives being nekkid too and that doesn't make sense either, so sense is irrelevant and we should have access to the same weapon passives that other transformations keep in their forms like Vampire and Bone Goliath ultimates.

They should change that, then. You shouldn’t get bonuses from items you are not wearing or using (weapons).

huskandhunger · March 30

katanagirl1 wrote: »

huskandhunger wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

It doesn’t make sense to have weapon passives if you aren’t using weapons.

We get armor passives being nekkid too and that doesn't make sense either, so sense is irrelevant and we should have access to the same weapon passives that other transformations keep in their forms like Vampire and Bone Goliath ultimates.

They should change that, then. You shouldn’t get bonuses from items you are not wearing or using (weapons).

so Bone Goliath and Vampire Lord should also lose their weapon and armor passives? Why should they get nerfed?

They have been in the game already and if we are talking cosmetics and by an outward visual regard consider the recent Carnival dress, should that player take more damage because they aren't in armor and don't have "items" equipped? No, because it's a costume, a temporary shift of form. So no I think we leave all forms alone and just let everyone have access to their weapon and armor passives.

katanagirl1 · March 30

huskandhunger wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

huskandhunger wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

It doesn’t make sense to have weapon passives if you aren’t using weapons.

We get armor passives being nekkid too and that doesn't make sense either, so sense is irrelevant and we should have access to the same weapon passives that other transformations keep in their forms like Vampire and Bone Goliath ultimates.

They should change that, then. You shouldn’t get bonuses from items you are not wearing or using (weapons).

so Bone Goliath and Vampire Lord should also lose their weapon and armor passives? Why should they get nerfed?

They have been in the game already and if we are talking cosmetics and by an outward visual regard consider the recent Carnival dress, should that player take more damage because they aren't in armor and don't have "items" equipped? No, because it's a costume, a temporary shift of form. So no I think we leave all forms alone and just let everyone have access to their weapon and armor passives.

Costumes are different because you would still have armor and weapons equipped.

Erickson9610 · March 31

katanagirl1 wrote: »

huskandhunger wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

huskandhunger wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

It doesn’t make sense to have weapon passives if you aren’t using weapons.

We get armor passives being nekkid too and that doesn't make sense either, so sense is irrelevant and we should have access to the same weapon passives that other transformations keep in their forms like Vampire and Bone Goliath ultimates.

They should change that, then. You shouldn’t get bonuses from items you are not wearing or using (weapons).

so Bone Goliath and Vampire Lord should also lose their weapon and armor passives? Why should they get nerfed?

They have been in the game already and if we are talking cosmetics and by an outward visual regard consider the recent Carnival dress, should that player take more damage because they aren't in armor and don't have "items" equipped? No, because it's a costume, a temporary shift of form. So no I think we leave all forms alone and just let everyone have access to their weapon and armor passives.

Costumes are different because you would still have armor and weapons equipped.

Werewolf has armor and weapons equipped. Enchantments on both weapons and armor apply. You get WD/SD and Armor depending on which items are equipped.

If we want to be pedantic, we could say that nobody should get the bonuses from jewelry, because rings/necklaces aren't visible on us even without a Costume, Outfit, or Polymorph.

The point is that those items are equipped in an equipment slot on the active bar. We get weapon effects because they're on our active bar, but for some reason we don't also get the associated passives.

katanagirl1 · March 31

Erickson9610 wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

huskandhunger wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

huskandhunger wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

It doesn’t make sense to have weapon passives if you aren’t using weapons.

We get armor passives being nekkid too and that doesn't make sense either, so sense is irrelevant and we should have access to the same weapon passives that other transformations keep in their forms like Vampire and Bone Goliath ultimates.

They should change that, then. You shouldn’t get bonuses from items you are not wearing or using (weapons).

so Bone Goliath and Vampire Lord should also lose their weapon and armor passives? Why should they get nerfed?

They have been in the game already and if we are talking cosmetics and by an outward visual regard consider the recent Carnival dress, should that player take more damage because they aren't in armor and don't have "items" equipped? No, because it's a costume, a temporary shift of form. So no I think we leave all forms alone and just let everyone have access to their weapon and armor passives.

Costumes are different because you would still have armor and weapons equipped.

Werewolf has armor and weapons equipped. Enchantments on both weapons and armor apply. You get WD/SD and Armor depending on which items are equipped.

If we want to be pedantic, we could say that nobody should get the bonuses from jewelry, because rings/necklaces aren't visible on us even without a Costume, Outfit, or Polymorph.

The point is that those items are equipped in an equipment slot on the active bar. We get weapon effects because they're on our active bar, but for some reason we don't also get the associated passives.

You don’t actually use weapons when in werewolf form though, right? You have a different skill bar.

Darkness734 · March 31

youre missing the point that all the other classes have the passives whether they are in a different form or not and the werewolves have nothing to compensate for it. They lose out completely which contributes to them being sub par and unplayable in nearly all content besides ones own personal enjoyment

dark_hunterxmg · March 31

katanagirl1 wrote: »

It doesn’t make sense to have weapon passives if you aren’t using weapons.

It's a skin which could easily just have a weapon animated in hand. The weapons are equipped. We even gain points for the weapon skill line while in Werewolf form. The weapons have traits, enchantments/poisons, change the stat sheet(only slightly), and even make up the the set bonus for the armor that you're wearing. The weapons are equipped.

dark_hunterxmg · March 31

Darkness734 wrote: »

youre missing the point that all the other classes have the passives whether they are in a different form or not and the werewolves have nothing to compensate for it. They lose out completely which contributes to them being sub par and unplayable in nearly all content besides ones own personal enjoyment

This is true. I lose health and magika when I turn into a Werewolf because the class skill line passives don't carry over.

katanagirl1 · March 31

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

It doesn’t make sense to have weapon passives if you aren’t using weapons.

It's a skin which could easily just have a weapon animated in hand. The weapons are equipped. We even gain points for the weapon skill line while in Werewolf form. The weapons have traits, enchantments/poisons, change the stat sheet(only slightly), and even make up the the set bonus for the armor that you're wearing. The weapons are equipped.

But you are not using weapons. You are using claws. A normal character would have to unequip weapons in order to fight with their hands.

EDIT: it’s not just a skin like a polymorph or costume. You lose weapon abilities because you gained new ones. Getting passives for both would be double dipping.

dark_hunterxmg · March 31

katanagirl1 wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

It doesn’t make sense to have weapon passives if you aren’t using weapons.

It's a skin which could easily just have a weapon animated in hand. The weapons are equipped. We even gain points for the weapon skill line while in Werewolf form. The weapons have traits, enchantments/poisons, change the stat sheet(only slightly), and even make up the the set bonus for the armor that you're wearing. The weapons are equipped.

But you are not using weapons. You are using claws. A normal character would have to unequip weapons in order to fight with their hands.

EDIT: it’s not just a skin like a polymorph or costume. You lose weapon abilities because you gained new ones. Getting passives for both would be double dipping.

If I don't have a weapon equipped, I wouldn't gain experience in that weapon line.

Double dipping is an absurd claim. Werewolf is half dipping at best. We lose damage, penetration, critical chance/damage, health, and magika just by transforming.

A nightblade casting concealed weapon has their equipped weapon disappear. A vampire using Arterial Burst has their weapon disappear. A Templar using beam has their weapon disappear. An arcanist casting beam has their weapon disappear. Anyone casting dawnbreaker has their equipped weapon disappear. They don't lose the weapon passives on casting because their weapon is no longer in ther hands. It's the same with werewolves, but we aren't allow to slot any other skills.

katanagirl1 · March 31

autocookies wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

It doesn’t make sense to have weapon passives if you aren’t using weapons.

It's a skin which could easily just have a weapon animated in hand. The weapons are equipped. We even gain points for the weapon skill line while in Werewolf form. The weapons have traits, enchantments/poisons, change the stat sheet(only slightly), and even make up the the set bonus for the armor that you're wearing. The weapons are equipped.

But you are not using weapons. You are using claws. A normal character would have to unequip weapons in order to fight with their hands.

EDIT: it’s not just a skin like a polymorph or costume. You lose weapon abilities because you gained new ones. Getting passives for both would be double dipping.

I have 3 questions for you.

1) How would you feel if the main class and playstyle you cared about were stripped away piece by piece until it became an empty shell of what it once was?

2) Have you ever played as a werewolf and seen how it feels to run one in serious content?

3) Were you, by chance, killed by a werewolf in PvP and developed an extreme hatred towards them, which has biased your opinion towards them?

I have a stamblade and a stamplar so I know about class skills being nerfed. I have never played werewolf but when my character picks up Volundrung in Cyrodiil, my skills completely change and it’s the same thing. I lose the ability to heal.

katanagirl1 · March 31

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

It doesn’t make sense to have weapon passives if you aren’t using weapons.

It's a skin which could easily just have a weapon animated in hand. The weapons are equipped. We even gain points for the weapon skill line while in Werewolf form. The weapons have traits, enchantments/poisons, change the stat sheet(only slightly), and even make up the the set bonus for the armor that you're wearing. The weapons are equipped.

But you are not using weapons. You are using claws. A normal character would have to unequip weapons in order to fight with their hands.

EDIT: it’s not just a skin like a polymorph or costume. You lose weapon abilities because you gained new ones. Getting passives for both would be double dipping.

If I don't have a weapon equipped, I wouldn't gain experience in that weapon line.

Double dipping is an absurd claim. Werewolf is half dipping at best. We lose damage, penetration, critical chance/damage, health, and magika just by transforming.

A nightblade casting concealed weapon has their equipped weapon disappear. A vampire using Arterial Burst has their weapon disappear. A Templar using beam has their weapon disappear. An arcanist casting beam has their weapon disappear. Anyone casting dawnbreaker has their equipped weapon disappear. They don't lose the weapon passives on casting because their weapon is no longer in ther hands. It's the same with werewolves, but we aren't allow to slot any other skills.

You gain an aoe stun lock skill that no class has that I am aware of. You gain some things and you lose some things, it is only fair.

Don’t take my word for it, tag someone here at ZOS and ask them about it.

dark_hunterxmg · April 1

katanagirl1 wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

It doesn’t make sense to have weapon passives if you aren’t using weapons.

It's a skin which could easily just have a weapon animated in hand. The weapons are equipped. We even gain points for the weapon skill line while in Werewolf form. The weapons have traits, enchantments/poisons, change the stat sheet(only slightly), and even make up the the set bonus for the armor that you're wearing. The weapons are equipped.

But you are not using weapons. You are using claws. A normal character would have to unequip weapons in order to fight with their hands.

EDIT: it’s not just a skin like a polymorph or costume. You lose weapon abilities because you gained new ones. Getting passives for both would be double dipping.

If I don't have a weapon equipped, I wouldn't gain experience in that weapon line.

Double dipping is an absurd claim. Werewolf is half dipping at best. We lose damage, penetration, critical chance/damage, health, and magika just by transforming.

A nightblade casting concealed weapon has their equipped weapon disappear. A vampire using Arterial Burst has their weapon disappear. A Templar using beam has their weapon disappear. An arcanist casting beam has their weapon disappear. Anyone casting dawnbreaker has their equipped weapon disappear. They don't lose the weapon passives on casting because their weapon is no longer in ther hands. It's the same with werewolves, but we aren't allow to slot any other skills.

You gain an aoe stun lock skill that no class has that I am aware of. You gain some things and you lose some things, it is only fair.

Don’t take my word for it, tag someone here at ZOS and ask them about it.

The nightblade fear does the same thing. Warden has charmed and DK has talons. Sorc has Streak, which is infinitely better. Werewolf gives up far more than it gains. Healing, damage, general survivability is all lower.

Have you spent much time playing on Werewolf against good players?

katanagirl1 · April 1

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

It doesn’t make sense to have weapon passives if you aren’t using weapons.

It's a skin which could easily just have a weapon animated in hand. The weapons are equipped. We even gain points for the weapon skill line while in Werewolf form. The weapons have traits, enchantments/poisons, change the stat sheet(only slightly), and even make up the the set bonus for the armor that you're wearing. The weapons are equipped.

But you are not using weapons. You are using claws. A normal character would have to unequip weapons in order to fight with their hands.

EDIT: it’s not just a skin like a polymorph or costume. You lose weapon abilities because you gained new ones. Getting passives for both would be double dipping.

If I don't have a weapon equipped, I wouldn't gain experience in that weapon line.

Double dipping is an absurd claim. Werewolf is half dipping at best. We lose damage, penetration, critical chance/damage, health, and magika just by transforming.

A nightblade casting concealed weapon has their equipped weapon disappear. A vampire using Arterial Burst has their weapon disappear. A Templar using beam has their weapon disappear. An arcanist casting beam has their weapon disappear. Anyone casting dawnbreaker has their equipped weapon disappear. They don't lose the weapon passives on casting because their weapon is no longer in ther hands. It's the same with werewolves, but we aren't allow to slot any other skills.

You gain an aoe stun lock skill that no class has that I am aware of. You gain some things and you lose some things, it is only fair.

Don’t take my word for it, tag someone here at ZOS and ask them about it.

The nightblade fear does the same thing. Warden has charmed and DK has talons. Sorc has Streak, which is infinitely better. Werewolf gives up far more than it gains. Healing, damage, general survivability is all lower.

Have you spent much time playing on Werewolf against good players?

Werewolf is not a class, though. It is a curse.

dark_hunterxmg · April 1

katanagirl1 wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

It doesn’t make sense to have weapon passives if you aren’t using weapons.

It's a skin which could easily just have a weapon animated in hand. The weapons are equipped. We even gain points for the weapon skill line while in Werewolf form. The weapons have traits, enchantments/poisons, change the stat sheet(only slightly), and even make up the the set bonus for the armor that you're wearing. The weapons are equipped.

But you are not using weapons. You are using claws. A normal character would have to unequip weapons in order to fight with their hands.

EDIT: it’s not just a skin like a polymorph or costume. You lose weapon abilities because you gained new ones. Getting passives for both would be double dipping.

If I don't have a weapon equipped, I wouldn't gain experience in that weapon line.

Double dipping is an absurd claim. Werewolf is half dipping at best. We lose damage, penetration, critical chance/damage, health, and magika just by transforming.

A nightblade casting concealed weapon has their equipped weapon disappear. A vampire using Arterial Burst has their weapon disappear. A Templar using beam has their weapon disappear. An arcanist casting beam has their weapon disappear. Anyone casting dawnbreaker has their equipped weapon disappear. They don't lose the weapon passives on casting because their weapon is no longer in ther hands. It's the same with werewolves, but we aren't allow to slot any other skills.

You gain an aoe stun lock skill that no class has that I am aware of. You gain some things and you lose some things, it is only fair.

Don’t take my word for it, tag someone here at ZOS and ask them about it.

The nightblade fear does the same thing. Warden has charmed and DK has talons. Sorc has Streak, which is infinitely better. Werewolf gives up far more than it gains. Healing, damage, general survivability is all lower.

Have you spent much time playing on Werewolf against good players?

Werewolf is not a class, though. It is a curse.

Not sure what that has to do with anything?

Vampire is a curse too, but is generally considered a buff and most players run it.

huskandhunger · April 1

awwoooo

Darkness734 · April 1

katanagirl1 wrote: »

autocookies wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

It doesn’t make sense to have weapon passives if you aren’t using weapons.

It's a skin which could easily just have a weapon animated in hand. The weapons are equipped. We even gain points for the weapon skill line while in Werewolf form. The weapons have traits, enchantments/poisons, change the stat sheet(only slightly), and even make up the the set bonus for the armor that you're wearing. The weapons are equipped.

But you are not using weapons. You are using claws. A normal character would have to unequip weapons in order to fight with their hands.

EDIT: it’s not just a skin like a polymorph or costume. You lose weapon abilities because you gained new ones. Getting passives for both would be double dipping.

I have 3 questions for you.

1) How would you feel if the main class and playstyle you cared about were stripped away piece by piece until it became an empty shell of what it once was?

2) Have you ever played as a werewolf and seen how it feels to run one in serious content?

3) Were you, by chance, killed by a werewolf in PvP and developed an extreme hatred towards them, which has biased your opinion towards them?

I have a stamblade and a stamplar so I know about class skills being nerfed. I have never played werewolf but when my character picks up Volundrung in Cyrodiil, my skills completely change and it’s the same thing. I lose the ability to heal.

I challenge you to make a werewolf. Run end game content and then get back to us when you have actual lived experience

autocookies · April 1

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