The Dragons in the Infinite Archive are too difficult for Arc 2

SilverBride · February 17

There are 3 dragons that can appear and they are way more difficult than the other Arc 2 cycle bosses. I don't remember all their names, but one damages with Lightning, one with Fire and one with Frost. The only one I can beat solo or with a Companion is the Lightning one.

These dragons are huge and there is little room to avoid getting knocked off the platform. And when they are in the air they almost completely cover the platform with their AOE.

Please tweak these at lower Arcs or not have them appear until later.

Hapexamendios · February 17

Haven't had any problems with the dragons at lower arcs myself. My strategy is to keep circling them. I find that makes it easier to get out of their AOEs. Also stay as close to them as possible so if you do get him with a wing or tail slap you have a lot less chance of getting knocked of the platform.

SilverBride · February 17

I try all that but it's usually the AOE that gets me. For some reason I can stay out of the lightning, but the fire and frost get me.

These are just not comparable to the other Arc 2 bosses, but are way more difficult than the rest.

Soarora · February 17

Yoln (the fire one) you need to stand in the outside of the arena when he's in flight like with Sunspire. I think his near-entire platform aoe attack should just be taken out. It barely matches a mechanic he does, I think its based on his DPS check that takes a very long time to trigger and wipes the group except in IA it happens more often, and you can only live if you stand behind him.

Blood_again · February 17

SilverBride wrote: »

I try all that but it's usually the AOE that gets me. For some reason I can stay out of the lightning, but the fire and frost get me.

When they fly:
Yolnahkriin (fire) covers the center of the arena with fire and spawn fire atronachs. Just step to the edge and kill atros til Yolna lands back.
Laatvulon (ice) covers the edge of the arena with frost blizzard, spawns ice atro and makes two sequential trails. So you need to step closer to the middle (not in the center) and watch carefully where the dragon flies. You should stay away of his trail. Dragon changes the angle of every pass, so the best way to avoid an ice trail is to stand close to the previous "exit point" of the dragon. Two passes, Laatvulon lands back and you keep fighting him.

When they sit:
Stand closer to the wing and move every time the dragon turns. So you could run away of Yolnahkriin's 180 dg (half circle) aoe.
You may try to stand on the wing, but be ready to block every hit of the wing. Check what is easier for you.
All 3 do heavy hit "fus-roh-dah". Block it or run to the wing fast.
All 3 do channeled breath. Just pre-heal and block it or run to the wing. Both attacks won't hit you if you stepped away behind the wing area in time.

They are not very hard really, especially at Arc 2.

NoSoup · February 17

I'm the opposite, I far rather seeing these guys early as it means there's less chance of meeting them later.

Follow the strategies above and you should be fine, play with sound so you can hear them shout so you know when to block to avoid being knocked off platform.

SilverBride · February 17

They are very hard for me and noticeably more difficult than the other Arc 2 bosses.

I appreciate the tips from everyone and will give them a try, but I still think these should not appear until at least Arc 3, preferably Arc 4.

DenverRalphy · February 17

They're atually very easy once you know where to stand.

While the dragon is on the ground, stand between his head and the knuckle of his wing with your feet just outside of the AOE ring, and let your companion tank at the nose. You won't get knocked back at all as his knockback is a wingslap or a tail swipe (circling or standing behind is a very very bad idea). You can stand there the entire time he's on the ground no problem. All you have to concern yourself with is briefly holding block as he lets loose his breathe attack.

While the dragon is airborne..

Fire - Stand at the edge of the platform, as there is enough room to stand outside the fire AOE. Usually a good idea to recall your companion as well, otherwise they'll go after the flame atros and walk right into the fire.
Ice - Stand inside the AOE because it's actually a ring and inside the ring is the safe space. Just gotta avoid the random ice shards that pop up.
Lightning - Simply avoid standing in the dragon's path as he breathes a path of lightning twice (2 perpendicular paths). It's easy to see where he's coming from. As well, the ensuing moving AOEs are easy to avoid as you can casually walk around them.

If it sounds complex, it's really not when you put it to practice. You'll discover that dragons are actually among the easiest of all the IA bosses.

Oh! And one QOL pointer... Keep an assistant (ragpicker/merchant/banker) on your quickwheel. If your companion dies, all you need to do is summon the assistant then immediately dismiss them. Your companion will reappear almost instantly at full health and ready to fight. I do that when I forget to recall Azandar during the Fire dragon and his ensuing death, and he's back before the dragon even lands back on the platform.

SilverBride · February 17

Those are some great tips. Thank you!

Sarannah · February 17

Dragons are actually much easier than some of the other bosses that can possibly spawn in round 4, like the bugged dro m-athra pillar boss or the void boss just to name two. Round four always has the toughest bosses which can end your entire IA run.

PS: Didn't know this was possible, but being able to resummon your dead companion without reviving(as stated above) seems like an exploit to me. Careful when using this trick!
PPS: Please fix the dro m-athra pillar boss, the pillars basically never work! And fix companion aggro with marauders!

DragonRacer · February 17

DenverRalphy wrote: »

They're atually very easy once you know where to stand.

While the dragon is on the ground, stand between his head and the knuckle of his wing with your feet just outside of the AOE ring, and let your companion tank at the nose. You won't get knocked back at all as his knockback is a wingslap or a tail swipe (circling or standing behind is a very very bad idea). You can stand there the entire time he's on the ground no problem. All you have to concern yourself with is briefly holding block as he lets loose his breathe attack.

I absolutely second this advice for when they are on the ground (all the advice was good, I just wanted to highlight this in particular). I am a tank main, so that is where I already am naturally used to standing because that is where the tank holds them while the DPS stand between his head and other wing knuckle and wail away on the back of his head, essentially.

I found that translated well in IA for avoiding the wing slaps and tail slaps. You just need to block at the right times and be a little beefy which, if you're running IA, you should have a build with a little beefiness to it anyway.

Orbital78 · February 17

They all are fairly easy if your system is rendering everything well. You do need to do the standard dragon mechs, if you've ever done Sunspire, you never go to their sides or back. You need to time their heavy with a block as to not be knocked back/potentially off. I do feel the companions need rebalanced with their fly phase damage though, but personally I can kill them fine alone. Going to the sides it is harder to time the wing slaps. Ice can be a pain to see during the fly phase because of the ice/fog.

AzuraFan · February 17

Putting the dragons on a platform is just a crappy cheat from the game. Yes, mechanics can be handled, but call a spade a spade. They don't need to be on a tiny platform that they pretty much fill. It's just a cheap cheat.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Oh! And one QOL pointer... Keep an assistant (ragpicker/merchant/banker) on your quickwheel. If your companion dies, all you need to do is summon the assistant then immediately dismiss them. Your companion will reappear almost instantly at full health and ready to fight. I do that when I forget to recall Azandar during the Fire dragon and his ensuing death, and he's back before the dragon even lands back on the platform.

Oh wow, didn't know about that. Will definitely use this from now on!

code65536 · February 17

BTW, the flight paths for ice/lightning are not random.

Their first strafe will always been perpendicular to where you entered the area.

So if you stay near where you entered (or opposite of where you entered), then you should be completely safe from the first strafe.

The second strafe is always perpendicular to the first strafe. So as soon as the first strafe is complete, just rotate 90 degrees around the room, and you'll be safe from the second strafe.

SilverBride · February 17

DragonRacer wrote: »

You just need to block at the right times and be a little beefy which, if you're running IA, you should have a build with a little beefiness to it anyway.

I have learned where to stand and when to block and very rarely get knocked off when they are on the ground. I also have a beefy build just for the Infinite Archive.

My problem is with the AOEs when they are in the air and when they first land. Arc 2 shouldn't be that difficult.

Orbital78 · February 17

SilverBride wrote: »

DragonRacer wrote: »

You just need to block at the right times and be a little beefy which, if you're running IA, you should have a build with a little beefiness to it anyway.

I have learned where to stand and when to block and very rarely get knocked off when they are on the ground. I also have a beefy build just for the Infinite Archive.

My problem is with the AOEs when they are in the air and when they first land. Arc 2 shouldn't be that difficult.

Do you block? I don't and didn't notice much incoming damage. Maybe slot a shield or something? Unsure without seeing what you're struggling with. The lightning circles are big and annoying but not that hard to avoid. The fire circle is worse but you can just get to the edge, after Yoln lands the does large frontal cones, just run to his back. Ice I can really remember, probably just those little frost circles and adds?

spartaxoxo · February 17

code65536 wrote: »

BTW, the flight paths for ice/lightning are not random.

Their first strafe will always been perpendicular to where you entered the area.

So if you stay near where you entered (or opposite of where you entered), then you should be completely safe from the first strafe.

The second strafe is always perpendicular to the first strafe. So as soon as the first strafe is complete, just rotate 90 degrees around the room, and you'll be safe from the second strafe.

This. Once I learned this the dragons felt as reasonable as everything else. One thing that also helped me besides knowing this is placing a map marker where I was standing as soon as I zoned in when I see them. This way I don't have to remember where to return. The steps are just be on the side with the map marker and then move 90 degrees from the map marker. It helps if I'm playing on a squishier character solo where I do sometimes strafe him while carefully watching the wing so I don't get knocked off.

Also, on the rare occasion I feel up to trying to go deeper into the Archive, my most successful runs are the ones where the hardest bosses are out of the way early. So I like seeing the dragons early on those runs because it means that I won't have to deal with them later on.

SilverBride · February 17

I rarely do more than 2 Arcs any more so I don't need to get these out of the way early. The lack of having a save is why I stop after 2 because it starts to get tiring for me at that point. I really enjoy the Tho'at Arc 4 fight so it would be really nice if I could save after Arc 2 then continue later, but that's a different topic.

spartaxoxo · February 17

SilverBride wrote: »

I rarely do more than 2 Arcs any more so I don't need to get these out of the way early. The lack of having a save is why I stop after 2 because it starts to get tiring for me at that point. I really enjoy the Tho'at Arc 4 fight so it would be really nice if I could save after Arc 2 then continue later, but that's a different topic.

I'm the same. Sometimes a good day for me stamina wise also lines up with one where I have all day to play, if I so choose. On those days, it's fun to go deeper. I just take breaks by moving the controller every so often when it starts to get too tiring and walk around/cook/whatever.

But the vast majority of days I'm stopping at arc 3-1-1. I do the first stage of arc 3 just to see if I get a Marauder for a chance at his loot.

JaxontheUnfortunate · February 17

Standing to the side of a dragon fight you are just asking to get wing slapped off the platform. Also some verses are very strong against dragon fights like swift gale. I have had a yolnahkrin end in under 15 seconds with swift gale.

Icy_Waffles · February 18

They are really simple… stand directly in front of the dragon to. Or get wing slapped off the platform, block fus ro da and stay out of AOE’s….

I don’t understand all of the complaints for bosses here, I haven’t found any of them to be too overturned.

JaxontheUnfortunate · February 18

sailripper is annoying with its travelling AOE.

Dagoth_Rac · February 18

code65536 wrote: »

BTW, the flight paths for ice/lightning are not random.

Their first strafe will always been perpendicular to where you entered the area.

So if you stay near where you entered (or opposite of where you entered), then you should be completely safe from the first strafe.

The second strafe is always perpendicular to the first strafe. So as soon as the first strafe is complete, just rotate 90 degrees around the room, and you'll be safe from the second strafe.

Is their logic to dragon orientation when they land? Do they face same direction as start of fight? Do they rotate 90 degrees from starting position? Or do they just land randomly? They are one of those enemies that are much easier if you are right in their face the whole time. If I could be in position to face tank them immediately upon landing, it would be cleaner than having to run around edge of platform to face tank them after landing.

I still say worst boss for falling off platform in IA is the final secret boss from Black Drake Villa. He puts this large snowy AoE on the ground and it will extend out into mid air beyond the platform. So it becomes really hard to tell where platform ends and it will look like snow covered surface below your feet, but you will fall right through it!

BXR_Lonestar · February 18

SilverBride wrote: »

There are 3 dragons that can appear and they are way more difficult than the other Arc 2 cycle bosses. I don't remember all their names, but one damages with Lightning, one with Fire and one with Frost. The only one I can beat solo or with a Companion is the Lightning one.

These dragons are huge and there is little room to avoid getting knocked off the platform. And when they are in the air they almost completely cover the platform with their AOE.

Please tweak these at lower Arcs or not have them appear until later.

I don't think they're too difficult combat wise, but I think it is absolute BS that the arena feels like it is way too small for these opponents to make for a fair fight. You can have good DPS, good burn, and do everything right, and you can still lose a thread because he decides to whack you with his wing and knock you off.

Dagoth_Rac · February 18

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

There are 3 dragons that can appear and they are way more difficult than the other Arc 2 cycle bosses. I don't remember all their names, but one damages with Lightning, one with Fire and one with Frost. The only one I can beat solo or with a Companion is the Lightning one.

These dragons are huge and there is little room to avoid getting knocked off the platform. And when they are in the air they almost completely cover the platform with their AOE.

Please tweak these at lower Arcs or not have them appear until later.

I don't think they're too difficult combat wise, but I think it is absolute BS that the arena feels like it is way too small for these opponents to make for a fair fight. You can have good DPS, good burn, and do everything right, and you can still lose a thread because he decides to whack you with his wing and knock you off.

He will never whack you with his wing if you are face-to-face. The whack is a mechanic that kicks in if you get too far to the side of dragon's head. I actually dismiss my tank companion and bring in a non-tank companion for dragon fights. It is much easier if I face-tank the dragon. The tank companion can sometimes back up too close to edge, and the taunted dragon follows, bringing his permanent ground AoE to the edge of platform and it is really hard to be in their face without being in AoE. The tank companion will sometimes move sideways, and taunted dragon will follow, which means you are now too far from dragon's head and will get wing slapped.

SilverBride · February 18

These flights may be simple for some but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that has a problem with them. The platform is way too small for fighting such a large opponent and the AOEs almost completely fill it.

The lightning dragon is the only one that doesn't completely fill the platform with its AOE and doesn't one hit if accidentally stepping in it. But the fire and frost are way overpowered.

DenverRalphy · February 18

JaxontheUnfortunate wrote: »

sailripper is annoying with its travelling AOE.

Yeah. I find Sailripper annoying because it uses the Donut AOE mechanic, except that it doesn't give you a Donut Hole to plug it with (at least, not when you're solo/w-compantion).

Lozeenge · February 18

there's a lot going on in those fights that'll kill you if you don't see it coming. in a later arc i took a death from simply the dragon landing and i didn't even think i needed to block or dodge something like that.

JaxontheUnfortunate · February 18

DenverRalphy wrote: »

JaxontheUnfortunate wrote: »

sailripper is annoying with its travelling AOE.

Yeah. I find Sailripper annoying because it uses the Donut AOE mechanic, except that it doesn't give you a Donut Hole to plug it with (at least, not when you're solo/w-compantion).

I had it in a duo with no way to plug it either.

Wuduwasa13 · February 19

They’re perfectly fine. Never had any issues with them or died to them. Learn mechs better.

allochthons · February 19

Learning to watch them as they fly, and watch the platform for the add spawns, can be tricky but is important. What code65536 said about their flight paths is key.

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

I actually dismiss my tank companion and bring in a non-tank companion for dragon fights. It is much easier if I face-tank the dragon. The tank companion can sometimes back up too close to edge, and the taunted dragon follows, bringing his permanent ground AoE to the edge of platform and it is really hard to be in their face without being in AoE. The tank companion will sometimes move sideways, and taunted dragon will follow, which means you are now too far from dragon's head and will get wing slapped.

I do this too. Lose my tank companion, sometimes bring in my healer companion if I'm having a bad run, or a ranged DPS. But I've tanked vet Sunspire (not well, mind you), so I was used to tanking dragons before I started IA. I think that made a huge difference.

There's no doubt the dragons are tuned to distance DPS builds. They're significantly easier on an arcanist than any other class, especially Yolnakriin, since all his adds spawn directly in the center, and you just beam them down. I totally agree that they're waaaay too large physically for a fight on a platform that small.

I still find Sailripper and Yandir to be worse.