Class balance
Militan1404
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Didnt find any class adjustment in the patch notes, just a couple of bug fixes for some of the classes. Did i miss something or is that really it?
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TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Im pretty sure they don't want to touch it anymore. Kind of makes me think maintenance mode and the standardized campaign will be their way forward.Edited by TechMaybeHic on 13 January 2025 19:084 -
Stamicka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They basically buffed everyone’s tankiness across the board and then left every other aspect of combat untouched. I don’t think they’re even trying anymore lol.PC NA and Xbox NA19 -
VixxVexx✭✭✭✭✭Yes class balance should've been several pages at this point, instead we get 4 bug fixes and a bunch of nothing.12 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Patch screams "skeleton crew" after all the news we got. I'll admit I had higher hopes, low, but something, this is nothing. They seem to think leaving class balance in this state for 3-4 years is perfectly acceptable. The reality is, class identity and balance is boring compared to almost any other RPG I can think of, not just MMORPGs. There is also the underlying issue of... When the hell do they plan to complete hybridization in regards to class minor group buffs, food, potions, poisons, and mundus stones.
In other words. See you in April for their next announcement cuz this ain't it.Edited by MashmalloMan on 13 January 2025 19:09PC Beta - 2200+ CP
Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit
Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit15 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Changes to abilities popping stealth on activation seems like it's 2 years after it was no longer an issue. We still have crystal frag or dark flare gankers?1 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭TechMaybeHic wrote: »Im pretty sure they don't want to touch it anymore. Kind of makes me think maintenance mode and the standardized campaign will be their way forward.Yes class balance should've been several pages at this point, instead we get 4 bug fixes and a bunch of nothing.
Why would they make class balance changes before they even know what the results are of the performance test? If the test is successful we would see a complete rework/rebalance of all the skills in the game.We should use the insightful and awesome buttons more5 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MincMincMinc wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »Im pretty sure they don't want to touch it anymore. Kind of makes me think maintenance mode and the standardized campaign will be their way forward.Yes class balance should've been several pages at this point, instead we get 4 bug fixes and a bunch of nothing.
Why would they make class balance changes before they even know what the results are of the performance test? If the test is successful we would see a complete rework/rebalance of all the skills in the game.
It's been 10 years, I think it's about time we stop making excuses for them even if that may be reasonable in any other circumstance, it's unacceptable to leave the game in the state it's been for this long.PC Beta - 2200+ CP
Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit
Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit31 -
Stamicka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MincMincMinc wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »Im pretty sure they don't want to touch it anymore. Kind of makes me think maintenance mode and the standardized campaign will be their way forward.Yes class balance should've been several pages at this point, instead we get 4 bug fixes and a bunch of nothing.
Why would they make class balance changes before they even know what the results are of the performance test? If the test is successful we would see a complete rework/rebalance of all the skills in the game.
I can’t see them reworking class skills for the entire game for the sake of PvP. That would have some very serious implications for PvE. I think if the Cyrodiil test is successful then those skills will be tied to PvP environments only, maybe even 1 specific campaign.
That’s already how it seems to be working, the new skills will only be available in the Vengeance campaign, but everywhere else in the game there’s the usual skills. There’s still a need for balancing outside of that Vengeance campaign.
PC NA and Xbox NA4 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MincMincMinc wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »Im pretty sure they don't want to touch it anymore. Kind of makes me think maintenance mode and the standardized campaign will be their way forward.Yes class balance should've been several pages at this point, instead we get 4 bug fixes and a bunch of nothing.
Why would they make class balance changes before they even know what the results are of the performance test? If the test is successful we would see a complete rework/rebalance of all the skills in the game.
If they hold off balance changes for the next thing in PvP every time; it never will happen. That actually feels like exactly where we've been largely fir a couple years for most classes2 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MincMincMinc wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »Im pretty sure they don't want to touch it anymore. Kind of makes me think maintenance mode and the standardized campaign will be their way forward.Yes class balance should've been several pages at this point, instead we get 4 bug fixes and a bunch of nothing.
Why would they make class balance changes before they even know what the results are of the performance test? If the test is successful we would see a complete rework/rebalance of all the skills in the game.
So they can test actual changes that are perhaps worth testing.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.8 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm guessing all their effort went into the Vengeance campaign.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || RIP old PvP build system || bring Vengeance7 -
IncultaWolf✭✭✭✭✭
✭So I still get to abuse magsorc in pvp more, being full damage and having more defense than every other class? Fine by me.
Necromancer is still a meme in pvp
I want to play my necro more than sorc, but I can just press hardened ward and have the same defenses as I would juggling around 3 different healing abilities on my necro so why bother? 4 -
ZDunlain✭✭✭No excuses not having any balance, maybe it is "okay" in the PvP side with all this new campaign and things but for PvE there are no excuses.
Same meta for 3-4 months.Only Templar PvP player0 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭MashmalloMan wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »Im pretty sure they don't want to touch it anymore. Kind of makes me think maintenance mode and the standardized campaign will be their way forward.Yes class balance should've been several pages at this point, instead we get 4 bug fixes and a bunch of nothing.
Why would they make class balance changes before they even know what the results are of the performance test? If the test is successful we would see a complete rework/rebalance of all the skills in the game.
It's been 10 years, I think it's about time we stop making excuses for them even if that may be reasonable in any other circumstance, it's unacceptable to leave the game in the state it's been for this long.
They have to justify making changes to their managers who in turn have to justify it to their directors..... There is 0 chance you would ever get a director level to agree with making an all encompassing change that will be obsolete in a few weeks.MincMincMinc wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »Im pretty sure they don't want to touch it anymore. Kind of makes me think maintenance mode and the standardized campaign will be their way forward.Yes class balance should've been several pages at this point, instead we get 4 bug fixes and a bunch of nothing.
Why would they make class balance changes before they even know what the results are of the performance test? If the test is successful we would see a complete rework/rebalance of all the skills in the game.
I can’t see them reworking class skills for the entire game for the sake of PvP. That would have some very serious implications for PvE. I think if the Cyrodiil test is successful then those skills will be tied to PvP environments only, maybe even 1 specific campaign.
That’s already how it seems to be working, the new skills will only be available in the Vengeance campaign, but everywhere else in the game there’s the usual skills. There’s still a need for balancing outside of that Vengeance campaign.
Correct if you assume they are going to truly split pve and pvp. Then pve could be changed. Zos has always taken the stance that they want pve and pvp to not be different games though. With the recent developments they have not entirely dismissed that thinking. I would think its possible they might implement simplified skills across the game for overall server performance savings. Like I said above, it makes no sense to go do a bunch of changes that you may find counterintuitive a few weeks later after the test.We should use the insightful and awesome buttons more2 -
sans-culottes✭✭✭✭✭
✭MincMincMinc wrote: »TechMaybeHic wrote: »Im pretty sure they don't want to touch it anymore. Kind of makes me think maintenance mode and the standardized campaign will be their way forward.Yes class balance should've been several pages at this point, instead we get 4 bug fixes and a bunch of nothing.
Why would they make class balance changes before they even know what the results are of the performance test? If the test is successful we would see a complete rework/rebalance of all the skills in the game.
The failed changes to Sacrificial Bones/Grave Lord’s Sacrifice occurred almost a year ago and were roundly criticized. ZOS even claimed they’d be keeping tabs on this new skill. It’s disappointing, if not necessarily surprising, that this poorly received change has persisted with no further updates.Edited by sans-culottes on 13 January 2025 21:234 -
Finedaible✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭A big nothing burger this update.
The Green CP changes are good, but that's just reverting a few nonsensical changes after years of people pointing out how terrible it was.4 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yeah all of the QOL and map changes are great improvements to the game but i was kind of expecting... something? For combat balance changes? I get they're working on pvp tests and stuff but the combat balancing we get is so minimal. I'm not asking for wide sweeping changes to the entire game but like some ability tuning or reworks.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX1 -
mariuszeb17_ESO5✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »
You mean good sorcs? Bad sorcs won't even do 3k DPS in full dmg sets lol
How much dps will the same players do playing a different class? Maybe a Templar - 800?
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StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭mariuszeb17_ESO5 wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »
You mean good sorcs? Bad sorcs won't even do 3k DPS in full dmg sets lol
How much dps will the same players do playing a different class? Maybe a Templar - 800?
They won't do 3k DPS either. Bad players will have bad mechanics and bad DPS regardless of what class they play. I've dueled a lot of magsorcs and fought magsorcs in Cyrodiil. Most of them don't even breach 2.5k-3k DPS. Most Templars don't either. I would argue that Templar in Cyrodiil can just spam Radiant Destruction and be more effective than magsorc.Edited by StaticWave on 15 January 2025 02:523 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭For example, here are some CMX screenshots from a Cyrodiil fight I had earlier today. I'll include DPS from multiple classes just for comparison's sake:
DK:
Sorc:
NB:
Templar:
Highest DPS I took in that fight was from a full damage NB ganker. Both magsorcs did below 1k DPS, and compared to the templars, they aren't really doing much better than them.
5k DPS magsorcs are top tier players and they will do 5k DPS on every class. You will almost never run into a magsorc doing 5k DPS in Cyrodiil. The only places you can find them are dueling areas like Stormhaven and Bergama, but even then, you need the actual top tier magsorcs to be online. Most magsorcs are not mechanically good enough to pull off even 3k-3.5k DPS, let alone 5k lol.
Edited by StaticWave on 15 January 2025 04:064 -
mariuszeb17_ESO5✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »...
I don't understand why you pasted those CMXs, for it to make sense they would have to come from one player. It's obvious that a less experienced player will do less dps regardless of class. And the thing is that Sorc make high damege even naked.
In PVP burst is killer not dps. Sorc has one of the greatest potentials in the game, despite its survivability and the ability to reset the fight - it is a problem.6 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭mariuszeb17_ESO5 wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »...
I don't understand why you pasted those CMXs, for it to make sense they would have to come from one player. It's obvious that a less experienced player will do less dps regardless of class. And the thing is that Sorc make high damege even naked.
In PVP burst is killer not dps. Sorc has one of the greatest potentials in the game, despite its survivability and the ability to reset the fight - it is a problem.
You are making the same mistake as the people whom I’m arguing against.
Myth: Every magsorc is doing high DPS
Reality: Only top tier magsorcs are doing DPS
Magsorc is great at dominating less skilled opponents and opponents who aren’t properly built to counter pressure via consistent burst damage. At the top level, magsorc is not a problem if you build correctly. I’ve dueled a lot of top tier magsorcs on PC NA and they never hit me for more than 8.5k crit Cfrags. They normally hit other people for 11-12k Cfrags.
I doubt most people here are even properly built to counter burst damage, nor are they mechanically good enough to survive any kind of pressure tbh.2 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭mariuszeb17_ESO5 wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »...
I don't understand why you pasted those CMXs, for it to make sense they would have to come from one player. It's obvious that a less experienced player will do less dps regardless of class. And the thing is that Sorc make high damege even naked.
In PVP burst is killer not dps. Sorc has one of the greatest potentials in the game, despite its survivability and the ability to reset the fight - it is a problem.
I think alot of the issues people have with sorc and nightblade is the inherent design concept. Sorc and nb were always the solo high burst damage classes. Where templar, dk, warden, necro, arc all have vastly better grouplay potential. With standardization sadly we have seen a huge loss in class identity where all of the above group classes basically are the same thing.
Asking for the two solo burst classes to lose their identity is silly. If you take away streak from a stamsorc you just get a really *** stamden that can barely do damage and not heal or buff itself or the group.
Basically anyone can build to reset the fight..... for example just throw resto ult or spell wall on any class and spam RATs.We should use the insightful and awesome buttons more2 -
Thumbless_Bot✭✭✭✭✭MincMincMinc wrote: »mariuszeb17_ESO5 wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »...
I don't understand why you pasted those CMXs, for it to make sense they would have to come from one player. It's obvious that a less experienced player will do less dps regardless of class. And the thing is that Sorc make high damege even naked.
In PVP burst is killer not dps. Sorc has one of the greatest potentials in the game, despite its survivability and the ability to reset the fight - it is a problem.
I think alot of the issues people have with sorc and nightblade is the inherent design concept. Sorc and nb were always the solo high burst damage classes. Where templar, dk, warden, necro, arc all have vastly better grouplay potential. With standardization sadly we have seen a huge loss in class identity where all of the above group classes basically are the same thing.
Asking for the two solo burst classes to lose their identity is silly. If you take away streak from a stamsorc you just get a really *** stamden that can barely do damage and not heal or buff itself or the group.
Basically anyone can build to reset the fight..... for example just throw resto ult or spell wall on any class and spam RATs.
Comparing Streak and RAT is like comparing apples to winnebagos.
Resto ult... is an ult...
Edited by Thumbless_Bot on 15 January 2025 22:122 -
VinnyGambini✭✭✭✭
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOlaI87KTWw
PC EU veteran at 28:00 talks about balance - personally I fully agree with him.Edited by VinnyGambini on 15 January 2025 22:153
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