Discussion : Joining Encounter in Progress is destroying dungeon experience

MidniteOwl1913 · November 20

Elvenheart wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

People always excuse speedrunning saying "if you want to go slow do a premade" like...lolnah?

If people want to blitz through dungeons then they can either solo or do the premade. You're in a group, not by yourself, don't run ahead and make everyone else bolt through a dungeon just because you can't stand to take ten or so minutes to run it normally.

New people, people doing the quest, people who just want to take it easy, people looking for Chests or other things for Leads...plenty of people don't want to just rush rush rush through a dungeon whatever reason. If you want to, take your own advice and stop making it everyone else's responsibility to make premade groups just to justify your impatience.

Simply put, if it's just one person "Speed Running ahead", That person is the problem! And any mechanic that doesn't allow people to go back through the dungeon for looting purposes after the fight is over is a PROBLEM! Why they can't just implement the Portals to Join the Encounter In Progress that previously allowed people joining a party mid-dungeon is beyond me.

I’ve always felt that there shouldn’t be a two minute kick timer at the end of a dungeon run. I wish there wasn’t one at all and the session just ended when the last person left the dungeon, but if there has to be a timer for server purposes then I wish it was ten minutes instead of two.

I have noticed that some people will leave the dungeon but wait to leave the group for a while giving anyone still inside more time. I try to do this when I'm not the last out...

NeoniKa · November 20

"Joining Encounter in Progress" is the ultimate play as you don't want!

It's really bad when forced as it is. But I think that it might have been great if it was optional. It's terrible when we're still doing quests and other stuff on dungeons, but I would activate it after completing everything. Also, it could be just a question, asking if you want to "Join Encounter in Progress", then you decide if you can/want or not, instead of forcing it.

EF321 · November 20

sarahthes wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

In Banished Cells 2 you literally can't do Maw mechanic anymore, because you keep getting teleported to middle of the room when trying to position Maw on the grill.

that was a mechanic? never heard or seen anyone do that even back in 2014 when i was first running the dungeon on vet lol

nowadays even on vet can mostly just tank and burn him in the middle

Yes, it is probably one of the most unknown mechanics in the game, learned it from one of the tanks while pugging, and have seen only a couple of other tanks do it in many many runs .
I've checked some guides that appear on top of google search, and only Alcast mentions it:

This boss has a very unique mechanic which most of the players aren’t aware of. If the tank especially knows about this mechanic, this fight will be a lot faster!

It indeed was making fight a lost faster, boss was taking, idk, 20-30% of health in a few seconds from it. But positioning had to be very precise, wasn't always getting it right on first attempt.

Edit: Found a video of someone trying it, you can see at 0:38-0:43 how it's health drops
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQpyfMxm6pI

interesting, though i dont think i would call it a "mechanic" lol

it is an interesting trick though, or even possibly a bug that the boss takes dmg from the fire traps on the floor, especially that much dmg

Don't think this is a bug, mobs typically don't take environmental damage, something like this has to be coded deliberately. Plus the fact that Maw has a lot more health than any other non-final base game boss (5.7 mil on vet), before I learned this I was wondering why is it so fat.

It shouldn't really be an issue in 2024 to kill this boss quickly when so...

Pug DPS timeless

NotNi.ya · November 20

Honestly, if you join via dungeon finder be prepared to go fast. If you want to go through every urn bookcase and chest then joining a dungeon guild will be better maybe. Usually RND and dailies done via group finder are there for one purpose. Get in and get out 💁🏼‍♀️

kiheikat · December 7

I'm going to chime in here. I am an experienced player who likes to speed run dungeons. I've done them a million times and just want to get them done for whatever reward I need. But hey, I'm helping everyone get through this faster, so all good. Right? Right? Uhm...no.

Now that I am trying to level undaunted on an alt, I am running FG2 over and over again to try to complete the quest. Should be easy. Right? Right? Pick up quest...wait, Joining encounter in progress! Travel to dungeon and pick up quest prior to run. PUG queue pops. Talk to NPC...wait, Joining encounter in progress.

Definitely need some sort of story mode that allows for quest completion and newer players to enjoy the experience.

kargen27 · December 7

NotNi.ya wrote: »

Honestly, if you join via dungeon finder be prepared to go fast. If you want to go through every urn bookcase and chest then joining a dungeon guild will be better maybe. Usually RND and dailies done via group finder are there for one purpose. Get in and get out 💁🏼‍♀️

I still think players shouldn't get the daily reward unless all bosses and 98% (to take into account a few glitched evil doers) of all mobs are killed. And they really need to put slaughter fish in Fungal Grotto. Don't tell anybody just all of a sudden the waters are infested.
If a daily endeavor is catch 15 fish and you catch two they don't say hey you are in a hurry here take the completion. They make you catch the other 13 fish. Daily randoms should be the same way. You want the XP and little bits of treasure kill everything. You want loot from the final boss then kill everything on the way.

Faint_One · December 7

maybe a vote which only enable join encounters while it passed

I_killed_Vivec · December 7

I encountered this while soloing Fungal Grotto 1 for endeavours one day last week.

Took me completely by surprise when I was yanked in to face the final boss. A goblin had run on ahead of me and procced the boss!

zharkovian · December 12

Pledges should be all bosses, dungeons too, joining encounter in progress robs heavy sacks, chests, plain old grocery shopping, and all for fast cats wanting as many boxes as they can in the shortest time. ZoS should take a look at how quests for new players in say, Selenes, have no contect whatsoever when just ONE member of the group wants to run though as fast as humanly possible @ZOS_GinaBruno

alpha_synuclein · December 12

Well, if someone is so insistent to earn my transmutes for me that I can barely see the dust behind him after I port in, I will gladly meet him at the nearest boss.

rustudah · December 24

I got fed up with this mechanic two days in a row. I can't complete quests because of this mechanic, and even worse in Selene's Web, I could not even take the quest because the NPCs RP for a good 30 sec before they are willing to talk and give quest to you.

"Joining encounter in progress" IMO should be optional where a UI dialog should pop up asking me to join in. If at least 2 people are not willing to join, then game should just reset the boss.
Because of one impatient person, rest of the group suffers from unable to complete the quest or content. And the penalty of leaving will be placed on me, all because I want to do the dungeon as it was designed?

I dont want to talk in detail about quest design because that is a different issue and it will end up complicating the current discussion. Zenimax already streamlined many dungeon quests a year or 2 ago, but it is not enough because of this "Joining encounter in progress" forced mechanic. But when we are considering solutions, it is good to have more options, and one of them is to mark the quest complete when the above Forced mechanic is triggered. I dont know how difficult it is to implement this, nor do I think this will solve the problem completely.

It is up to Zenimax to consider or implement any solution that is listed or not listed here. But, please understand that the Dungeons in ESO are THE most core PVE gameplay loop. The faster this is addressed, the happier the community will be. Thank You!

robpr · December 24

In both cases, Tank should be the one that leads the group. Both speedy and tourist players should be encouraged to premade their groups, you can't police people from random queue. While most of the time I see players with similar level to each other, you can't expect the group that did the dungeon for 265315267th time to wait for you because you want to look at the flowers in the room. Same as people that want to stick to the group want to chase that one guy that is constantly on major expedition and pulling everything.

-Use the chat, in like 80% of cases people will slow down for your quest or speed up if you let them know
-Vote kick for the stubborn speedster or tourist/afker
-For extreme turbo mode or chill exploration, get a premade
-Expect nothing from the random queue

Older dungeons could get a facelift that either forbid to open the door until everybody speak to NPCs or have the story dialogue play in the background like in the DLC dungeons. Some old content quest take so much time that you would be half way next boss hp bar until NPC finally let you speak with them. Banished cells 1 and 2, Vaults of Madness and Wayrest 2 are the worst offenders here.

rustudah · December 24

robpr wrote: »

In both cases, Tank should be the one that leads the group. Both speedy and tourist players should be encouraged to premade their groups, you can't police people from random queue. While most of the time I see players with similar level to each other, you can't expect the group that did the dungeon for 265315267th time to wait for you because you want to look at the flowers in the room. Same as people that want to stick to the group want to chase that one guy that is constantly on major expedition and pulling everything.

-Use the chat, in like 80% of cases people will slow down for your quest or speed up if you let them know
-Vote kick for the stubborn speedster or tourist/afker
-For extreme turbo mode or chill exploration, get a premade
-Expect nothing from the random queue

Older dungeons could get a facelift that either forbid to open the door until everybody speak to NPCs or have the story dialogue play in the background like in the DLC dungeons. Some old content quest take so much time that you would be half way next boss hp bar until NPC finally let you speak with them. Banished cells 1 and 2, Vaults of Madness and Wayrest 2 are the worst offenders here.

I agree with most of what you said. I especially like your take on improving the old dungeons with respect to the quest progression.
I would also offer another suggestion - Once you have completed a quest for a dungeon on one character, the quest should be optional for other characters and just reward the Skill point after beating final boss on other characters. That is literally the only reason I redo dungeon quests on other characters. I just hope it is not a tough thing to implement for the Devs.
Another problem with random queues is that the tank is (not most but) many times a fake one, along with dps and healer. Zenimax may need to figure out a way to force these roles before they can queue for a specific role.
I did thousands of dungeon runs over last 8 years on both NA and EU servers. For base game dungeons, I literally not have to talk to any one in the group or read chat to understand if someone is questing. And I automatically pause for them to complete their quest and sometimes I had to literally point them to npc to complete the checkpoint. Like you said, chat does not help all the time, because people just don't want to bother themselves with others's progression, period.
In case anyone misunderstood, I do like lightning fast dungeon runs, but the problem here is that the forced "joining encounter" mechanic is way too abusive and it literally takes only a single person to ruin experience for 3 other people in the group. It needs tweaking for sure, unless the other points mentioned above are addressed.

Elsonso · December 24

The pull forward should only happen when two or three players are at the boss to catch up stragglers. Stragglers can be people who cannot, or are not, using fast movement passives and skills so they get stuck in the piles of mobs left behind by the people who are.

If there is one player at the boss, then the leading player should rejoin the party behind them.

If anyone is doing the dungeon quest, then the leading players should rejoin those doing the quest, not the other way around. Some of those dungeon quests are quite annoying and require waiting while NPCs saunter around doing speeches.

If they are going to zoom people around in the dungeon, they should at least take into consideration different conditions.

Cooperharley · December 24

zharkovian wrote: »

This new feature is horrendous, new players can no longer enjoy the lower level dungeons, if some enthusiastic pug tank or dps wishes to drag everyone through a dungeon at high speed for a pledge or a plunder skull, there is no choice, heavy sacks, chests are meaningless as there is no chance to dawdle, insignificant mini-bosses meaningless, horrible. I've played this game for over 8 years now and this new "joining encounter in progress" is far too aggressive. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin

You must be new, so I'll tell ya what most other people have said over the years. If you join into a RANDOM dungeon or you queue for the group finder in any way, you are joining in with a variety of people with a variety of motivations for why they are running said dungeon. Expecting any other players to do anything how you like is just as selfish as them running ahead. It is what it is. Tailor your experience to what you like - grab a buddy or companion and solo the low level dungeons. They're extremely easy.

AzuraFan · December 24

I said upthread that I think this mechanic is good. I don't want to be in a pug and have to wait while someone goes through every single dialogue option for a quest giver. It would change some 10-15 minute runs into 30-45 minutes -- longer for DLC dungeons, where there's a lot of optional dialogue so the NPCs tell you their life story. I really like story quests, but I would never expect a pug to go through a dungeon in story mode. Unless you get the agreement of the other three group members up front, it's selfish to expect three random players to wait. Go with guildies or form your own group through the group finder.

Also, I've been in the situation when a gate closed on me before a boss, and if that mechanic wasn't in place, I'd be sitting there unable to fight the boss. Once there were two of us there, just a second behind the others, and bam, the gate closed.

The only situation when this is annoying is with speed runners. I like the idea that at least 2 group members have to be at the boss for this mechanic to kick in, because most of the time it's only one person running ahead. Occasionally you'll get a sheep that runs after them, but most of the time it's just one person. Alternatively, maybe the speedrunner should be rubberbanded back to the group if they get to the boss and nobody else is close by, rather than moving the group up to the speedrunner.

Sakiri · December 24

vsrs_au wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Most dungeons on Normal difficulty are relatively easy to complete. Each dungeon has 3 item sets to collect from it, so players who are looking to farm gear (or just complete their daily random dungeon) want to do so as quickly as possible.

If you want a slower experience, you have the option of making a group in the Group Finder for that purpose. Alternatively, you could try soloing it with or without a Companion (you can bring friends along for this if you'd like).

The "joining encounter in progress" feature has been around for quite a while, and it helps because the people being left behind still get an opportunity to fight the current boss. If that feature didn't exist, the busy players might even defeat the final boss before the slow players finished listening to every bit of dialogue, which would mean the slow players wouldn't get a chance to fight any bosses at all.

So why can't the player about to be pulled to the boss location be given a choice? Skip the teleport and risk missing the boss fight, or accept it and miss some dungeon content? At least that way, if the player chooses to stay, (s)he can always do that dungeon some other time while skipping any story content.

Only if they get no loot.

Players not fighting a boss make it hard for those who are, and after having a nb in my darkshade 1 group earlier that just light attacked with a fire staff, I, at 22, had to make up the damage with my healer gear and setup and whopping 5k. The bosses took FOREVER.

Sakiri · December 24

jaws343 wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Most dungeons on Normal difficulty are relatively easy to complete. Each dungeon has 3 item sets to collect from it, so players who are looking to farm gear (or just complete their daily random dungeon) want to do so as quickly as possible.

If you want a slower experience, you have the option of making a group in the Group Finder for that purpose. Alternatively, you could try soloing it with or without a Companion (you can bring friends along for this if you'd like).

The "joining encounter in progress" feature has been around for quite a while, and it helps because the people being left behind still get an opportunity to fight the current boss. If that feature didn't exist, the busy players might even defeat the final boss before the slow players finished listening to every bit of dialogue, which would mean the slow players wouldn't get a chance to fight any bosses at all.

Soloing works to a point. But some encounters have mechanics that require you to be rescued from a dungeon one hit kill. So those present an issue.

I’ve learned that they need to get rid of those mechanics that prevent dungeons being soloed with gimmicks or work arounds.

On normal, it's only 6 dungeons right now that have group mechanics that make the dungeons difficult to impossible to solo. And only two of them are actually impossible to solo.

Direfrost - you can do a work around to get through

Fang Lair - precog will get you through the mechanic
Blackheart - precog can get you through
Fungal Grotto 2 - precog can get you through

Wayrest 2 - Impossible solo
ICP - Impossible solo

The mechanics for Direfrost, Wayrest 2, and ICP, should absolutely be removed, as they are outliers compared to the large number of dungeons we have. The other 3 are fine as is, since a skill can be used to get through the mechanic.

You can duo all of them. I do it often.

Arunei · December 24

SpiritofESO wrote: »

The reality is that people are at different levels of awareness when they enter a random dungeon. Some are alert and ready to go, others are distracted and hang around the entrance for a minute or so. The best way to deal with this is using the Joining Encounter in Progress so that way all four members of the dungeon group will be present and, whether they contribute 100% or not, they are still able to get the XP, the loot and the credit from the boss.

The other thing is that the "fake tank" issue has forced me to always run dungeons as the tank, having skilled up my main Nightblade (Bosmer, good stamina racial passives) character to do so. And since I've played the game for about five and a half years now, this allows me to use my knowledge of the dungeon mechanics to take a bit more control over the flow through the dungeon. My process is to race ahead, gather a large group of enemies which then allows us to wipe them out, generally at a choke-point like a passageway. This works really well and you get all of the XP for everybody, and it is more fun and more challenging to kill 30 or 40 trash mobs in a big group rather than just three or five of them. This clears the dungeon, gets all the XP and all the loot, and allows you to engage the next boss with all four members at the same time.

Also, since you are likely to have one or two sub-level-50 players running the dungeon with you, they may be running the dungeon for the first time on that character and might need to kill all the dungeon bosses to complete the initial dungeon quest. Common courtesy dictates that we make an allowance for those players.

And, by the way, I always stop to open (force lock) chests along the way, and I am fully aware that not all PUG members are interested in looting chests. If you want to collect supplies or resources from containers in the dungeon, you have about two minutes after the final boss is killed to go back and run the dungeon quickly to gather your supplies.

Generally, my idea for running dungeons is to, yes, be quick about it but also to clear all trash mobs so that you get the XP and the loot and also clear all sub-bosses and the main boss. If I am running in a PUG and someone wants to "shortcut" the dungeon I will simply leave the group because I don't believe that's the "proper" way a dungeon should be run.

So then, overall, I think that the feature of Joining Encounter in Progress is, on the whole, worthwhile.

Except even in the shortest Dungeon we have, two minutes isn't anywhere NEAR long enough to even get back to the start, even without looking for Chests, Heavy Sacks, etc. That's not really a justification for blitzing people through a Dungeon without asking first.

I do agree on common courtesy in letting people do their quests though.

AzuraFan wrote: »

I said upthread that I think this mechanic is good. I don't want to be in a pug and have to wait while someone goes through every single dialogue option for a quest giver. It would change some 10-15 minute runs into 30-45 minutes -- longer for DLC dungeons, where there's a lot of optional dialogue so the NPCs tell you their life story. I really like story quests, but I would never expect a pug to go through a dungeon in story mode. Unless you get the agreement of the other three group members up front, it's selfish to expect three random players to wait. Go with guildies or form your own group through the group finder.

Also, I've been in the situation when a gate closed on me before a boss, and if that mechanic wasn't in place, I'd be sitting there unable to fight the boss. Once there were two of us there, just a second behind the others, and bam, the gate closed.

The only situation when this is annoying is with speed runners. I like the idea that at least 2 group members have to be at the boss for this mechanic to kick in, because most of the time it's only one person running ahead. Occasionally you'll get a sheep that runs after them, but most of the time it's just one person. Alternatively, maybe the speedrunner should be rubberbanded back to the group if they get to the boss and nobody else is close by, rather than moving the group up to the speedrunner.

It's equally as selfish to run through a Dungeon at max ultra top speed because one only cares about how fast one can get through it, though.

Kyip · December 24

I hate my first run through any new dungeon because nobody will slow down to let me read the damned story when doing the one-shot, once-only quest. I've settled into a habit of taking screen shots of every dialogue line to read after the dungeon, because otherwise I will be dragged forward, or constantly lag behind a fast group. Sometimes, unfortunately, people don't slow down even when you ask them to wait a little to let you take those screen shots, so I have to drop group and leave, just so I can take screen shots with a less impatient group. I hate the first run of new dungeons, it is an absolutely horrible experience. Putting quests, story, dialogue, etc, in there is a really bad design decision.

For context, I *do* run hard content, I have a weekly hardmode progression vet trial group. I've done vLC, vSE, etc. It's just miserable trying to do the first run of new dungeons unless I can find friends to go slow with, or muddle through solo'ing them. It sucks the joy out of the stories in the dungeons. It would be nice if the dungeons had options to deactivate joining boss encounters, or maybe an easy solo story mode that didn't reward any gear.

Sakiri · December 24

Arunei wrote: »

SpiritofESO wrote: »

The reality is that people are at different levels of awareness when they enter a random dungeon. Some are alert and ready to go, others are distracted and hang around the entrance for a minute or so. The best way to deal with this is using the Joining Encounter in Progress so that way all four members of the dungeon group will be present and, whether they contribute 100% or not, they are still able to get the XP, the loot and the credit from the boss.

The other thing is that the "fake tank" issue has forced me to always run dungeons as the tank, having skilled up my main Nightblade (Bosmer, good stamina racial passives) character to do so. And since I've played the game for about five and a half years now, this allows me to use my knowledge of the dungeon mechanics to take a bit more control over the flow through the dungeon. My process is to race ahead, gather a large group of enemies which then allows us to wipe them out, generally at a choke-point like a passageway. This works really well and you get all of the XP for everybody, and it is more fun and more challenging to kill 30 or 40 trash mobs in a big group rather than just three or five of them. This clears the dungeon, gets all the XP and all the loot, and allows you to engage the next boss with all four members at the same time.

Also, since you are likely to have one or two sub-level-50 players running the dungeon with you, they may be running the dungeon for the first time on that character and might need to kill all the dungeon bosses to complete the initial dungeon quest. Common courtesy dictates that we make an allowance for those players.

And, by the way, I always stop to open (force lock) chests along the way, and I am fully aware that not all PUG members are interested in looting chests. If you want to collect supplies or resources from containers in the dungeon, you have about two minutes after the final boss is killed to go back and run the dungeon quickly to gather your supplies.

Generally, my idea for running dungeons is to, yes, be quick about it but also to clear all trash mobs so that you get the XP and the loot and also clear all sub-bosses and the main boss. If I am running in a PUG and someone wants to "shortcut" the dungeon I will simply leave the group because I don't believe that's the "proper" way a dungeon should be run.

So then, overall, I think that the feature of Joining Encounter in Progress is, on the whole, worthwhile.

Except even in the shortest Dungeon we have, two minutes isn't anywhere NEAR long enough to even get back to the start, even without looking for Chests, Heavy Sacks, etc. That's not really a justification for blitzing people through a Dungeon without asking first.

I do agree on common courtesy in letting people do their quests though.

AzuraFan wrote: »

I said upthread that I think this mechanic is good. I don't want to be in a pug and have to wait while someone goes through every single dialogue option for a quest giver. It would change some 10-15 minute runs into 30-45 minutes -- longer for DLC dungeons, where there's a lot of optional dialogue so the NPCs tell you their life story. I really like story quests, but I would never expect a pug to go through a dungeon in story mode. Unless you get the agreement of the other three group members up front, it's selfish to expect three random players to wait. Go with guildies or form your own group through the group finder.

Also, I've been in the situation when a gate closed on me before a boss, and if that mechanic wasn't in place, I'd be sitting there unable to fight the boss. Once there were two of us there, just a second behind the others, and bam, the gate closed.

The only situation when this is annoying is with speed runners. I like the idea that at least 2 group members have to be at the boss for this mechanic to kick in, because most of the time it's only one person running ahead. Occasionally you'll get a sheep that runs after them, but most of the time it's just one person. Alternatively, maybe the speedrunner should be rubberbanded back to the group if they get to the boss and nobody else is close by, rather than moving the group up to the speedrunner.

It's equally as selfish to run through a Dungeon at max ultra top speed because one only cares about how fast one can get through it, though.

I don't go alone so good luck kicking for us speeding through. I want in and done. I enjoy dungeons, point out sacks and chests and wait for quests, but I will not wait while someone dwadles going through urns and shelves.

Desiato · December 24

ESO players must understand how diverse the community is.

There is no pleasing everyone here.

The dungeon finder presents to us a compromise. When you choose to play with total strangers, you are accepting this compromise. If you don't like what you are presented with, you have the option of negotiating with them or leaving.

If the compromise is a dealbreaker, then curate your own dungeon experience by playing with like-minded friends, acquaintances and guildmates -- but chances are they'll all have their own ideas about how things should be done.

When ESO was new, I very much wanted to take the time to experience the dungeon stories, so I did exactly this. I duo'd them all with a friend who also wanted to do this. We patiently gave each other the time to go through the dialogue.

In this modern world, perhaps we are too prone to ask someone to fix a problem for us instead of just tying to make do and adapt.

I like to complete dungeons as quickly as possible, but I also like to kill all the trash because I hate being stuck in combat. I think it's actually faster for a couple of decent players to obliterate the trash than to move slower, without resources, and arrive at the boss fight with low ult. But that's me.

Dungeon combat is extremely boring to me, and the only enjoyment I get out of it is trying to kill mobs as effectively as possible. If one cannot accept that, they should start their own group and make the rules. Just as I have to accept players who don't understand their roles, have poorly developed characters that don't contribute very much and those who want to skip all trash.

Soarora · December 24

Kyip wrote: »

I hate my first run through any new dungeon because nobody will slow down to let me read the damned story when doing the one-shot, once-only quest. I've settled into a habit of taking screen shots of every dialogue line to read after the dungeon, because otherwise I will be dragged forward, or constantly lag behind a fast group. Sometimes, unfortunately, people don't slow down even when you ask them to wait a little to let you take those screen shots, so I have to drop group and leave, just so I can take screen shots with a less impatient group. I hate the first run of new dungeons, it is an absolutely horrible experience. Putting quests, story, dialogue, etc, in there is a really bad design decision.

For context, I *do* run hard content, I have a weekly hardmode progression vet trial group. I've done vLC, vSE, etc. It's just miserable trying to do the first run of new dungeons unless I can find friends to go slow with, or muddle through solo'ing them. It sucks the joy out of the stories in the dungeons. It would be nice if the dungeons had options to deactivate joining boss encounters, or maybe an easy solo story mode that didn't reward any gear.

Try checking UESP, I think theres people who run through the quest using an API to let them upload the dialogue to the wiki. I get the gist of the story by playing and listening to dialogue that happens without interacting with an NPC, I think it’d be good if ZOS focused more on that kind of storytelling (NPCs talking to you while you’re moving around) instead of standing there reading a dialogue box.

Elvenheart · December 24

I wish that after you do the quest the first time and get the skill point, you could do the quest again for a reduced reward and no skill point of course. Like a daily. More people would take the quest in the beginning for the reward so more people would be on the same steps at the same time. Sometimes when I’ve been in a group and someone is on the quest, it’s hard to remember what they have to do and where they may have to wait and talk to an NPC this may help that, and with more people doing the quest, this could slow down the speedsters as well.

Capsaica · December 24

The new feature (for the last dungeons which didn't have it yet) is nice in many ways, but I have also been tremendously frustrated when trying to get skill points on a new character or on an alt account by doing the quest when it is available in a random normal.

I (personally) don't need to listen to the storyline, as a player since beta I've done all of those already, but I do care about the skill point for the quest and the bonus XP for doing a random normal. Nothing is more infuriating than letting my fellow pugs know that I am doing the quest and then getting yoinked out of my required quest dialog and being forced beyond where I can finish the quest. A little kindness goes a long way...

Could I go back and solo it? Probably. Even on the alt account which (at the time) had no CP and was brand new, sure. I know how to play the game, but I've been doing it for nearly 11 years...

A totally new player, on the other hand? No, likely not. And the worst dungeons for this are the older ones that open up first for new players. FG1, DS1, etc., these all have quest points that are slow and require that people wait for the quest to progress.

As a community, wouldn't it simply be nice to give maybe an extra minute of your time to ensure that a newer player gets the things they need out of a dungeon run? I always try to ask, when doing an older dungeon, if anyone needs the quest. If no one speaks up, it's full steam ahead. But if someone does, just take a few extra moments to allow them to progress the quest as quickly as possible. It's a pretty small sacrifice to get someone small bit of help.

AzuraFan · December 24

Arunei wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

I said upthread that I think this mechanic is good. I don't want to be in a pug and have to wait while someone goes through every single dialogue option for a quest giver. It would change some 10-15 minute runs into 30-45 minutes -- longer for DLC dungeons, where there's a lot of optional dialogue so the NPCs tell you their life story. I really like story quests, but I would never expect a pug to go through a dungeon in story mode. Unless you get the agreement of the other three group members up front, it's selfish to expect three random players to wait. Go with guildies or form your own group through the group finder.

It's equally as selfish to run through a Dungeon at max ultra top speed because one only cares about how fast one can get through it, though.

I agree. Speed running is selfish, but so is forcing three random strangers to take at least twice as long to do a dungeon so you can listen to the story. I'm in a guild that sometime runs a dungeon story event, and the DLC dungeons can take more than an hour to listen to everything and poke into every corner.

I pug every day. I'd say 90% of the time the group moves through the dungeon at a reasonable clip. Not speed running, but not dawdling. Killing everything in the way, then moving on. Waiting for a straggler to catch up, but no more than a minute.

As a DPS, sometimes I've already been in the queue for 30-40 minutes by the time I finally get into a dungeon. At that point, I usually don't have the time to then spend 30+ minutes while someone listens to the story. I want to get through the dungeon and move on with my day. But I never speed run.

I've said it before - when you pug, you get what you get and you learn to go with the flow. If you're not willing to do that, don't pug. Join a guild that runs dungeon events, or use the group finder.

Kyip · December 24

So... why did they implement this feature, anyway? What was the underlying reason or need for it? It has been helpful when someone disconnects and needs to quickly get back in to rejoin the group. But overall, it has been more troublesome than helpful.

Desiato · December 24

Kyip wrote: »

So... why did they implement this feature, anyway? What was the underlying reason or need for it? It has been helpful when someone disconnects and needs to quickly get back in to rejoin the group. But overall, it has been more troublesome than helpful.

I would guess more players find it frustrating to miss a boss encounter entirely than those who don't like this mechanic.

Everyone has a different idea about how things should be done. I think it's a fallacy to think everyone who doesn't like speed running or being pulled into encounters could agree on a set of rules.

At the end of the day, we're all there to complete the dungeon. The group mechanics and dlc quest design streamline this process.

There's no way random pugs could ever work if they limited everyone to the pace of the slowest players. There are players who want to loot literally every container. I'm not waiting for that under any circumstances.

In my view, the dungeon finder doesn't need any adjustments. It has a high level of engagement and helps players complete a wide variety of goals.

Capsaica wrote: »

As a community, wouldn't it simply be nice to give maybe an extra minute of your time to ensure that a newer player gets the things they need out of a dungeon run? I always try to ask, when doing an older dungeon, if anyone needs the quest. If no one speaks up, it's full steam ahead. But if someone does, just take a few extra moments to allow them to progress the quest as quickly as possible. It's a pretty small sacrifice to get someone small bit of help.

In my experience, this is largely the case. I would say 9/10 times the other players wait for me during the quirky early dungeon quests that can easily break. But I have to ask.

To be clear, I only want to complete the quest for the skill point and exp.

And knowing how frustrating it is for the quest to break, I usually ask if someone is on the quest -- but sometimes I can tell everyone just wants to gogogo.

IMO, the onus is on the individual to speak up, not for everyone else to read their mind or ask probing questions.

Soarora · 00:06

Kyip wrote: »

So... why did they implement this feature, anyway? What was the underlying reason or need for it? It has been helpful when someone disconnects and needs to quickly get back in to rejoin the group. But overall, it has been more troublesome than helpful.

Doors close in some fights so people don’t turn around and leave mid combat, this has gotten people (ahem, me) locked out of encounters before. Shout out to the time in WGT I stared longingly and angrily through the bars watching the boss fight because I couldn’t get in.

As for why add it to base game dungeons that have minimal doors? Consistency I suppose, but also to save people stuck in trash if they’re unlucky enough to get in a group that doesn’t kill trash (IMO its faster to kill the trash than not because speed out of combat is higher with bracing anchor, no one gets stuck, they die pretty fast if you have a tank, people can swap between boss/trash setups… I tell people who run ahead of me that it’d be faster if they let me pull so I can stack and debuff the enemies…).

MJallday · 08:34

It’s quite simple

If player picks up dungeon quest - joining encounter =off , else on