Werewolf Rework Idea

Taril · December 15

So the aim of this suggested rework is to achieve 2 things: 1) De-jankify the wereworlf gameplay and 2) Facilitate the notion of Magicka based characters to utilize being a Werewolf (As the overall design very much leans into Stam only. Unlike say, Vampire which can easily be changed to enable Stampires by just altering ability costs).

Werewolf Transformation - Transform into a beast, fearing nearby enemies for 3 seconds. While Transformed your Max Stamina and Max Magicka are increased by 30%. While slotted, your Stamina Recovery and Magicka Recovery are increased by 15%.

While Transformed you can activate Fury Swipes for X Ultimate, dealing X Bleed Damage to all nearby enemies and an addtional Y Bleed Damage over 10 seconds.

Comments:

The baseline effect of transforming altered so now it provides bonuses to both resources, which has a side effect of improving its utility while slotted and not being used. Also a change to enable an actual ultimate ability while transformed allowing for greater utility (And fun)

Werewolf Berserker (Morph) - Transform into a beast, fearing nearby enemies for 3 seconds. While transformed, your Light Attacks apply a bleed for 3716 Bleed Damage over 4 seconds, your Heavy Attacks deal 50% splash damage, and your Max Stamina and Max Magicka are increased by 30%. While slotted, your Stamina Recovery and Magicka Recovery are increased by 15%.

While Transformed you can activate Rending Swipes for X Ultimate, dealing X Bleed Damage to all nearby enemies and an addtional Y Bleed damage over 10 seconds, dealing up to X% more damage to targets below 100% health.

Comments:

Includes the baseline changes to incorporate Magicka. Transformed ult provides more damage in a thematic "Execution" style for this damage orientated morph.

Pack Leader (Morph) - Transform into a beast, fearing nearby enemies for 3 seconds. While transformed your Max Stamina and Max Magicka are increased by 30%, you take 10% less damage, and you summon two direwolves. You also grant yourself and nearby group members Minor Courage, increasing their Weapon and Spell Damage by 215. While slotted, your Stamina Recovery and Magicka Recovery are increased by 15%.

While Transformed you can activate Shredding Swipes for X Ultimate, Dealing X Bleed Damage to all nearby enemies and an additional Y Bleed damage over 10 seconds. Enemies damaged by this ability are afflicted with Major Vulnerability for 4 seconds.

Comments:

Again, incorporate the Magicka bonuses. Transformed ult provides some additional utility in the form of the coveted Major Vulnerability.

Pounce - Cost is based on highest Max Resource. Pounce on an enemy with primal fury, dealing 1799 Bleed Damage and an additional Y damage over 10 seconds to all nearby enemies, dealing up to 450% more damage to enemies under 100% Health. All enemies hit are afflicted with the Hemorrhaging status effect.

Comments:

Cost now scales with resource built for. No longer is a janky 2-use skill for no reason, it just pounces and does its thing. Baseline is now AoE because cleave is more important these days.

Brutal Pounce (Morph) - Cost is based on highest Max Resource. Pounce on an enemy with primal fury, dealing 1799 Bleed Damage and an additional Y damage over 10 seconds to all nearby enemies, dealing up to 450% more damage to enemies under 100% Health. All enemies hit are afflicted with the Hemorrhaging status effect. Increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 100 for each enemy hit, up to 6 times.

Comments:

Same changes as with base skill. Flexible resource cost. Less janky ability.

Feral Pounce (Morph) - Cost is based on highest Max Resource. Pounce on an enemy with primal fury, dealing 1799 Bleed Damage and an additional Y damage over 10 seconds to all nearby enemies. All enemies hit are afflicted with the Minor Vulnerability increasing their damage taken by 5%. Dealing damage with either attack restores 100 Stamina and extends your Werewolf Transformation by 1 second.

Comments:

Again, same changes as with base skill. AoE component can help with the Stamina gain for tanking multiples, to recover Stamina while blocking. Exchanges the execute damage and Hemorrhage for more utility in Minor Vulnerability.

Hircine's Bounty - Cost is based on lowest Max Resource. Invoke the Huntsman's blessing, healing you for X Health and also healing you and nearby allies an additional Y Health over 10 seconds. This ability scales off your Max Health. While slotted you gain Major Brutality and Sorcery, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 20%.

Comments:

Provides additional AoE HoT effect granting better sustain as well as more utility. Janky Stam restore is removed to be reintegrated elsewhere. Flexible cost added.

Hircine's Rage (Morph) - Cost is based on lowest Max Resource. Invoke the Huntsman's blessing, healing you for X Health and also healing you and nearby allies an additional Y Health over 10 seconds. Also grants you Major Berserk. While slotted you gain Major Brutality and Sorcery, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 20%.

Comments:

Same as baseline changes, flexible cost, HoT effect. Also changed it to be based on damage stats rather than max health and made the Major Berserk unconditional (And sans penalty) given that Scribing can facilitate anyone to get Minor Berserk for free.

Hircine's Fortitude (Morph) - Cost is based on lowest Max Resource. Invoke the Huntsman's blessing, granting you a damage shield that absorbs X damage for 6 seconds, healing you for X Health, and also healing you and nearby allies an additional Y Health over 10 seconds. This ability scales off your Max Health. While slotted you gain Major Brutality and Sorcery, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 20%.

Comments:

Baseline changes implemented. But also swapped the Endurance and Fortitude buffs for a damage shield to provide a more well rounded defensive skill.

Roar - Cost is based on highest Max Resource. Roar with bloodlust to fear nearby enemies for 4 seconds and setting them Off Balance for 7 seconds Your roar also leaves enemies dazed, applying Minor Maim reducing their damage by 5% for 20 seconds. While slotted you gain Major Savagery and Prophecy, increasing your Weapon and Spell Critical rating by 2629.

Comments:

Cost flexibility. Traded janky "Terrified" mechanic for Minor Maim, providing utility.

Ferocious Roar (Morph) - Cost is based on highest Max Resource. Roar with bloodlust to fear nearby enemies for 4 seconds and setting them Off Balance for 7 seconds Your roar also leaves enemies dazed, applying Minor Maim reducing their damage by 5% for 20 seconds. You also increase your feral senses revealing stealthed and invisible enemies around you for 5 seconds. Exposed enemies cannot return to stealth or invisibility for 4 seconds. Your Heavy Attacks also are 33% faster for 10 seconds after casting. While slotted you gain Major Savagery and Prophecy, increasing your Weapon and Spell Critical rating by 2629.

Comments:

Provides the baseline utility/flexibility changes. Also adds a reveal mechanic in lieu of not being able to access Guild skills for this effect.

Deafening Roar (Morph) - Cost is based on highest Max Resource. Roar with bloodlust to fear nearby enemies for 4 seconds and setting them Off Balance for 7 seconds Your roar also leaves enemies dazed, applying Minor Maim, Minor Breach and Major Breach, reducing their damage by 5% and Physical and Spell Resistances by 2974 and 5948 for 20 seconds. While slotted you gain Major Protection and Minor Protection reducing damage taken by 10% and 5%.

Comments:

Also retains the baseline changes. Also provides Minor Breach for more utility. Trades the Taunt on Heavy attacks for Minor Protection.

Piercing Howl - Cost is based on highest Max Resource. Crush an enemy with a deafening howl, dealing X Physical Damage. You or an ally targeting the enemy can activate the Scent of Blood synergy, which grants both you and them X Stamina and Magicka.

Comments:

Flexible cost. Synergy becomes baseline. Synergy now also provides resources and will always benefit you.

Howl of Agony (Morph) - Cost is based on highest Max Resource. Crush an enemy with a deafening howl, dealing X Physical Damage. You or an ally targeting the enemy can activate the Feeding Frenzy synergy, which grants both you and them X Stamina and Magicka, and Empower and Minor Force for 20 seconds, increasing their damage done with Heavy Attacks against monsters by 70% and their Critical Damage by 10%.

Comments:

Similar changes to baseline. Synergy now also provides the buffs for more damage.

Howl of Despair (Morph) - Cost is based on highest Max Resource. Crush an enemy with a deafening howl, dealing X Physical Damage and taunting them to attack you for 15 seconds. You or an ally targeting the enemy can activate the Taste of Blood synergy, which grants both you and them X Stamina and Magicka, and Minor Heroism granting 1 Ultimate every 1.5 seconds for 20 seconds.

Comments:

Again, same changes as baseline. This skill will also now be a ranged taunt skill, making applying taunt more convenient. Synergy provides more utility in the form of Minor Heroism.

Infectious Claws - Cost is based on highest Max Resource. Shred enemies in front of you with your tainted claws, dealing 2178 Disease Damage and an additional 3620 Disease Damage over 20 seconds. Enemies hit by the initial hit are afflicted with the Diseased status effect.

Comments:

Flexible cost added. No other changes.

Claws of Anguish (Morph) - Cost is based on highest Max Resource. Shred enemies in front of you with your tainted claws, dealing 2178 Disease Damage and an additional 3620 Disease Damage over 20 seconds. Afflicts enemies with Major Defile for 4 seconds, reducing their healing received and damage shield strength by 12%. Enemies hit by any part of the ability are afflicted with the Diseased status effect.

Comments:

Again, just flexible cost added. No other changes.

Cursed Claws formerly Claws of Life (Morph) - Cost is based on highest Max Resource. Shred enemies in front of you with your tainted claws, dealing 2178 Disease Damage and an additional 3620 Disease Damage over 20 seconds. Afflicts enemies with Minor Cowardice reducing their Weapon and Spell Damage by 215 for 4 seconds. Enemies hit by the initial hit are afflicted with the Diseased status effect.

Comments:

More flexible cost. With the change to Hircine's Bounty providing the health sustain, this morph was altered to provide more utility in the form of Minor Cowardice instead of its lifestealing.

Erickson9610 · December 15

These are really great ideas! I hope the combat team takes a look at this and finds inspiration for their next update to the Werewolf skill line.

In particular, I really like the in-form Ultimate, the removal of Carnage, the taunt being moved to Howl of Despair, the damage shield on Hircine's Fortitude, the AoE ally heal of Hircine's Bounty, and the AoE damage of Pounce. I want to play the version of Werewolf you've described here.

@ZOS_Kevin

dark_hunterxmg · December 15

Lots of good ideas here. We need the initial heavy attack after casting Ferocious Roar to also be faster. That long first heavy attack wastes 2 seconds of that 10 second timer. Seems like it should work that way now based on the skill description, but I haven't heard from zos if that is intentional or not.

Rohamad_Ali · December 16

WW need to be able to sneak.

dark_hunterxmg · December 16

The return of weapon passives would be wonderful too. I need my Sword, Dagger, Maul, etc. to actually make a difference on my stat sheet.

JaxontheUnfortunate · December 16

Lol yeah would be great to get access to weapon passives.

Erickson9610 · December 16

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

The return of weapon passives would be wonderful too. I need my Sword, Dagger, Maul, etc. to actually make a difference on my stat sheet.

If we had our weapon passives, then heavy attacking with a Restoration Staff while in Werewolf form would allow us to crossheal allies, which Werewolf would really benefit from, given that we have no in-kit way of crosshealing allies.

dark_hunterxmg · December 16

Erickson9610 wrote: »

If we had our weapon passives, then heavy attacking with a Restoration Staff while in Werewolf form would allow us to crossheal allies, which Werewolf would really benefit from, given that we have no in-kit way of crosshealing allies.

Definitely. Things like that could make a difference and add some variety. Even if we were given a cross heal ability, that would still be great for a Werewolf healer.

Taril · December 16

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

WW need to be able to sneak.

That would be very nice, especially if they want to keep making mechanics based around it (Such as the recent Hollowjack fight).

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

The return of weapon passives would be wonderful too. I need my Sword, Dagger, Maul, etc. to actually make a difference on my stat sheet.

This would also be nice.

Lots of utility is lost without weapon passives (Such as the Block cost and Block mitigation from SnB/Ice Staff, stats from DW/2h, the option to use Trifocus Ice Staff to make Block cost Magicka, some cool Bleed builds from Inferno Staff)

Though, if weapon passives were reintroduced, I might consider changing Werewolf Berserker's heavy attack bonus. To avoid weird interactions with Forceful. I.e. The fact that you'd be dealing 150% splash damage with heavies, making you do more damage to the targets you're not directly attacking.

While it might not be a major balance problem, it could cause some strange gameplay.

In a similar vein, there's other things that can be considered too;

- Such as allowing "While on either bar" skills to persist into WW form - Though this could further the divide between classes in WW efficiacy (I.e. It's bad enough that non-base classes of Warden, Necro and Arcanist more prominently feature passives that explicitly require class skills to function compared to base classes that have more generic unconditional passives)

- Enabling Werewolf skills to be considered "Global" class skills meaning they will activate various class passives to help even out the classes in terms of benefits from passives (Though Necro and Arcanist would still be screwed somewhat by their passives that are tied to their unique resources of Corpses and Crux) - Of course, this could cause some balance issues

Of course, my initial concern is mostly about making WW simply play smoother overall, hence the original focus on just active skills (There's plenty of room for improvement in the WW Passives too)

Erickson9610 · December 16

Taril wrote: »

- Enabling Werewolf skills to be considered "Global" class skills meaning they will activate various class passives to help even out the classes in terms of benefits from passives (Though Necro and Arcanist would still be screwed somewhat by their passives that are tied to their unique resources of Corpses and Crux) - Of course, this could cause some balance issues

Necromancer Werewolf would benefit from the Corpse Consumption passive (which grants 10 Ultimate when consuming a corpse) if they could gain and use Ultimate while in-form. Werewolf's Devour synergy counts as a corpse-consuming ability (as does Templar's Repentance ability) and procs the Necromancer Class Set, Corpseburster.

Arcanist Werewolf can't consume Crux, which means the Implacable Outcome and Fated Fortune passives can't be used in-form. Technically you can use the Fated Fortune passive if you generate Crux out of form and let it expire while in form, but that takes 30 seconds and can only be done once per transformation. Arcanist Werewolf also cannot generate Crux, so the Hideous Clarity and Fated Fortune passives are also off limits. The only Crux passive that (briefly) works is Healing Tides, which grants +3% Healing Done per active Crux, but this lasts for a maximum of 30 seconds due to Crux disappearing if not refreshed.

If Werewolf had a Grimoire that was compatible with the Class Mastery Signature Script (all Grimoires up to this point have been compatible with this) then, assuming the implementation of Class Mastery is the exact same as it is for every other Grimoire:

Necromancer Werewolves could generate a corpse if no corpses are nearby or increase their maximum resources if there are corpses nearby. They can Devour the corpses they generate to proc Corpseburster and add time to their Werewolf Transformation timer.
Arcanist Werewolves could create a Crux — meaning they could benefit from the Hideous Clarity, Fated Fortune, and Healing Tides passives, by managing the ability to create Crux and letting it expire to consume it, but they still wouldn't benefit from Implacable Outcome due to the lack of an in-form Ultimate.

Taril · December 17

Erickson9610 wrote: »

If Werewolf had a Grimoire that was compatible with the Class Mastery Signature Script (all Grimoires up to this point have been compatible with this) then, assuming the implementation of Class Mastery is the exact same as it is for every other Grimoire:
Necromancer Werewolves could generate a corpse if no corpses are nearby or increase their maximum resources if there are corpses nearby. They can Devour the corpses they generate to proc Corpseburster and add time to their Werewolf Transformation timer.

Arcanist Werewolves could create a Crux — meaning they could benefit from the Hideous Clarity, Fated Fortune, and Healing Tides passives, by managing the ability to create Crux and letting it expire to consume it, but they still wouldn't benefit from Implacable Outcome due to the lack of an in-form Ultimate.

Aye, a Grimoire could help enable these passives (Necro would still be SOL when it comes to Reusable Parts and Undead Condfederate due to them being still tied to specific named abilities)

But even with such things, these classes are still "Somewhat screwed" by this need to jump through hoops in order to get something out of these passives compared to other classes whom need to... "Use [Insert skill line] ability" or "Have [Insert skill line] ability slotted"

Both the need to utilize a Grimoire skill (Meaning not being able to slot one of the actual Werewolf abilities) AND then being forced to use the Class Mastery Signature Script AND then still having to do more stuff to actually utilize the mechanics (Necro having to actively Devour the corpses. Arcanists have to actively NOT USE this skill for 30s periods to allow the stacks to fall off because refreshing the duration of 3 Crux doesn't count as generating a Crux for Hideous Clarity or Fated Fortune)

Which is one of my qualms in regards to these classes designs, both in terms of their class passives and their additional resource mechanics. It's very limiting in builds, not only for using class skills (Where you have to manage which skills you pick so you have adequate Crux generators and spenders) but also if focusing on non-class skills such as Scribed abilities or any other skill lines like Fighter's Guild/Mage's Guild/Psijic/Undaunted and of course Werewolf/Vampire.

However I'll leave it at that. This topic is more about changes to Werewolf skills/skill line itself rather than other classes.

dark_hunterxmg · December 19

Hopefully the cost of abilities will get addressed if they do make any of these changes. Particularly the heal cost. If a heal over time function is added to the werewolf heal, it needs to not be cost prohibitive. The duration vs. cost should not be so much that it is more detrimental to keep a HoT up, vs. just waiting for a burst. The werewolf burst heal is definitely an outlier in cost to cast. I would think that if the heal was similar to the way Polar Wind works (utility and cost ~4k), it would be pretty solid.

Stx · December 20

Maybe Werewolf becomes less of a subclass and more of a skill line? Take a similar approach to Diablo 4 where your werewolf skills just transform you into wolf form for 4-10 seconds and you can transform out instantly by using other skills. Werewolf form can still have passive bonuses but the skills need to be more expensive than regular skills to make up for the passive damage / survival.

El_Borracho · December 20

Or... just make it what is was upon release. When it was viable in PVE and PVP