Making a limited time bust (Hollowjack) drop RNG is not reasonable

allochthons · November 4

Making a gold bust drop, which (I believe) for the entirety of ESO's existence has been a guaranteed drop showing you completed vet content, subject to RNG 10 years in is outrageous.
It also devalues the whole bust system.

3 different threads were created quickly:
Is the lord hollowjack bust an RNG drop?
Lord Hollowjack Bust is RNG?!
Hollowjack Bust RNG is horrible

I've gotten the gold box every day of the event, and done the fight probably 15 times without the quest, just grouping with others, and no bust.
Newer players who don't know you can do the fight and get loot without the quest are in even more dire straits.

Please, ZoS, going forward (and next year) rethink this.

allochthons · November 4

15 runs today, 10ish yesterday. Got it, finally.
This is NOT FUN, ZOS.

Servadei · November 4

allochthons wrote: »

15 runs today, 10ish yesterday. Got it, finally.
This is NOT FUN, ZOS.

You're right it's not fun but as long as tons of people keep playing it, why should ZOS change their terrible FOMO RNG? The metrics for this type of RNG must look very successful and that's all that matters to a business.

* Are lots of players engaged in it? If yes, success!

virtus753 · November 4

Servadei wrote: »

allochthons wrote: »

15 runs today, 10ish yesterday. Got it, finally.
This is NOT FUN, ZOS.

You're right it's not fun but as long as tons of people keep playing it, why should ZOS change their terrible FOMO RNG? The metrics for this type of RNG must look very successful and that's all that matters to a business.

* Are lots of players engaged in it? If yes, success!

Is it really a success if you get a lot of people to grind something that may never drop and they end up feeling burnt out and like they had their time wasted for no reward? I know I stopped putting in most of my time and money into this game after seeing so many of my friends and guildmates burned by random BoP time-limited drops in the Anniversary event. The choice to keep implementing the same mechanic after that speaks volumes, to me.

Elvenheart · November 4

allochthons wrote: »

15 runs today, 10ish yesterday. Got it, finally.
This is NOT FUN, ZOS.

Congratulations on getting it! I got mine about the second or third day and I was very thankful. I totally agree, it should have never been random. I was fully prepared to have to do it every day of the event to get it and knowing that I might not have gotten it even then was an awful feeling and a terrible way to start my favorite event.

Edited to add: I’m still traumatized from the random weapon motifs during the anniversary event. I’m not sure I’ll ever get over that. I’ve played since beta and have had many wonderful experiences playing ESO, but the anniversary event will go down in history as my all time worst memory.

acastanza_ESO · November 4

If you don't get it this time, it'll be back next year. These kinds of things, once they're added, come back every year. There's RNG stuff from events from years past that I haven't gotten yet too and that's fine. It isn't reasonable to expect to get everything right now, always.

allochthons · November 5

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

If you don't get it this time, it'll be back next year. These kinds of things, once they're added, come back every year. There's RNG stuff from events from years past that I haven't gotten yet too and that's fine. It isn't reasonable to expect to get everything right now, always.

For the shreds and other things that are now coming out of the bags, sure. This is a BUST. I still don't have the sovereign sow, and I'm fine with that. I may never get it. Whatever.

If there was a guaranteed drop for doing the boss solo, or with a full 12 players to the drain is awful, that would be fine. A bust, which up to now has always dropped for completing vet content, as pure RNG? No.

(I am afraid to type what I think might be the next thing they move to RNG, because I don't want to give them the idea.)

allochthons · November 5

Elvenheart wrote: »

Congratulations on getting it! [snipped by allo for length]
Edited to add: I’m still traumatized from the random weapon motifs during the anniversary event. I’m not sure I’ll ever get over that. I’ve played since beta and have had many wonderful experiences playing ESO, but the anniversary event will go down in history as my all time worst memory.

Thank you!
I hated the anniversary event drops too. I got a lot of house chores done, though!

I just went back and checked. They did warn us about the bust, like they did about dismal anniversary drop rate. Dangit.

A matching collectible bust furnishing can sometimes be acquired from looting Lord Hollowjack.

ArchangelIsraphel · November 5

I'm running this thing on 13 characters a day with no luck at all ._.;

Can it be done more than once a day on the same character? Portal disappears after the quest is done, so I'm not sure.

fizl101 · November 5

Yes it can, if you group with someone with the quest the portal is there for you again

SilverBride · November 5

allochthons wrote: »

I just went back and checked. They did warn us about the bust, like they did about dismal anniversary drop rate. Dangit.

Warning us that something may be an extremely rare drop doesn't mean it's ok to make it an extremely rare drop, especially when it's a item that can only be acquired for a limited time.

I agree with @Elvenheart that the Anniversary event replicas grind was by far the worst experience I had in 10 years. That is not how to celebrate a milestone anniversary and had a very negative effect on the players.

DenverRalphy · November 5

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I'm running this thing on 13 characters a day with no luck at all ._.;

Can it be done more than once a day on the same character? Portal disappears after the quest is done, so I'm not sure.

Everyone I know, we'd all group up and only 1 person would grab quest. After we killed HJ, then the next person in line would grab the quest (people who got the bust pushed to the front of the line), and we'd do it all over again. Rinse, repeat. When everybody used up their quest, we'd switch toons and do it again. Every guildmate I know had the bust within day 2 or 3 doing this.

ArchangelIsraphel · November 5

DenverRalphy wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I'm running this thing on 13 characters a day with no luck at all ._.;

Can it be done more than once a day on the same character? Portal disappears after the quest is done, so I'm not sure.

Everyone I know, we'd all group up and only 1 person would grab quest. After we killed HJ, then the next person in line would grab the quest (people who got the bust pushed to the front of the line), and we'd do it all over again. Rinse, repeat. When everybody used up their quest, we'd switch toons and do it again. Every guildmate I know had the bust within day 2 or 3 doing this.

Thanks for this information! time to mobilize the guild to reap our revenge on hollowjack for this atrocious drop rate.

polaris86 · November 5

I fought LHJ 1-3 times a day and never got the Bust. But I know people that got it on day 1.

However, I just got a jackpot gold skull (on the last day of the event) so I have it now.

If not for that I probably would have missed out on it.

gamergirldk · November 5

got mine today

peacenote · November 5

SilverBride wrote: »

allochthons wrote: »

I just went back and checked. They did warn us about the bust, like they did about dismal anniversary drop rate. Dangit.

Warning us that something may be an extremely rare drop doesn't mean it's ok to make it an extremely rare drop, especially when it's a item that can only be acquired for a limited time.

I agree with @Elvenheart that the Anniversary event replicas grind was by far the worst experience I had in 10 years. That is not how to celebrate a milestone anniversary and had a very negative effect on the players.

I thought maybe I saw that some of the Anniversary patterns are coming back now (I could be wrong) but I agree that these were the absolutely worst out of anything I've ever seen in ESO because at the time it was not clear they would return. You only get one 10 year anniversary, right? So logic would dictate that they wouldn't return. I did not even bother farming them although I did spend an hour or so one day trying to see if got lucky and I think I got one or two.

I have less of an issue with the bust because I'm sure I'll get it eventually (if not this year, another year) and I don't think an achievement is attached to it (which would drive me bonkers). However I get how people might be frustrated with this - especially if they otherwise enjoyed the new fight and are into housing!

fizzylu · November 5

Servadei wrote: »

You're right it's not fun but as long as tons of people keep playing it, why should ZOS change their terrible FOMO RNG? The metrics for this type of RNG must look very successful and that's all that matters to a business.

* Are lots of players engaged in it? If yes, success!

I know someone whose logic is always "but if you don't farm it, you'll be upset you didn't get it once it's gone", and no.... no, I won't actually. I have way better things to do with my time and nothing is that special. BUT, yeah-- it would be pretty cool if Zenimax actually designed things in a way that properly engages players, especially ones like me who will instead just be motivated to go play another game before they wait around for the RNG gods to bless them.

SilverBride · November 5

peacenote wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

allochthons wrote: »

I just went back and checked. They did warn us about the bust, like they did about dismal anniversary drop rate. Dangit.

Warning us that something may be an extremely rare drop doesn't mean it's ok to make it an extremely rare drop, especially when it's a item that can only be acquired for a limited time.

I agree with @Elvenheart that the Anniversary event replicas grind was by far the worst experience I had in 10 years. That is not how to celebrate a milestone anniversary and had a very negative effect on the players.

I thought maybe I saw that some of the Anniversary patterns are coming back now (I could be wrong) but I agree that these were the absolutely worst out of anything I've ever seen in ESO because at the time it was not clear they would return.

I don't know if they originally intended for them to come back, but there was quite a backlash here on the forums about what a horrendous grind it was, and many players never got any, let alone all, of the drops.

I only managed to get the last drop I needed on the extra day we were extended on PCNA or I wouldn't have gotten that one.

I am glad that others can get these now, but I am also bitter that I spent all day every day doing the same thing over and over and over, which is something I never do. But it was the 10 year anniversary and having these reminders mattered to me.

Then the fact that we begged for communication about it and there was NONE. That Anniversary was sure momentous, but not in a good way.

BenTSG · November 5

It's simple, I'm not going to be a scape goat to artifically boost the 'engagement' numbers by grinding against terrible RNG. Instead, I've been spending a lot of my time replaying through RDR2 so then I can buy and replay through RDR1 again. Although that idea keeps getting side-tracked because I keep getting distracted running around Rhodes pushing everyone around and having a absolute blast.

CGPsaint · November 6

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

If you don't get it this time, it'll be back next year. These kinds of things, once they're added, come back every year. There's RNG stuff from events from years past that I haven't gotten yet too and that's fine. It isn't reasonable to expect to get everything right now, always.

The Wooden Grave Stake Memento from the Murkmire Event would like to have a word with you... That event was wonky from the start and a lot of people were not able to obtain the fragments for the Wooden Grave Stake Memento or the Voriplasm pet, and not only did ZoS do nothing to remedy the situation, but that event has never returned. That Wooden Grave Stake Memento remains that one and only event item that I have failed to collect over the course of ESO's history of events.

freespirit · November 6

So there is supposedly going to be an event I believe q1 2025 with a lot of returning items....... the Wooden Grave-Stake memento slated to be included, this article explains some of the returning items and other event activities.....

https://eso-hub.com/en/events/pan-tamriel-celebration

Ilumia · November 6

virtus753 wrote: »

Servadei wrote: »

allochthons wrote: »

15 runs today, 10ish yesterday. Got it, finally.
This is NOT FUN, ZOS.

You're right it's not fun but as long as tons of people keep playing it, why should ZOS change their terrible FOMO RNG? The metrics for this type of RNG must look very successful and that's all that matters to a business.

* Are lots of players engaged in it? If yes, success!

Is it really a success if you get a lot of people to grind something that may never drop and they end up feeling burnt out and like they had their time wasted for no reward? I know I stopped putting in most of my time and money into this game after seeing so many of my friends and guildmates burned by random BoP time-limited drops in the Anniversary event. The choice to keep implementing the same mechanic after that speaks volumes, to me.

This is sadly a common metric in this industry, because the more time players spend in game, the higher the chance of them spending money on it. It's a respectless way to treat your player base, but a cheap way to make the short-term player engagement go up, and numbers look good. Because great content that people are motivated to play because they simply find it fun, takes more effort and therefore costs dev time.
I don't know if this means they're starting to stop investing in eso, but the lack of content this year, without the promised QoL improvements sure makes it seem that way. And it's made me stop subbing, I hate being told to vote with my wallet, I have a life and can't possibly be well enough informed about everything that costs money to make sure I support good things all the time (on a grander scale, like properly climate friendly stuff that isn't just marketed green washed as hell, and stuff that doesn't support child labor! I want laws that do that stuff, I can't read up on every product), but I also cannot support a game that treats me this way, it just left a bitter taste and made feel like a fool at my own expense.

Amottica · November 6

virtus753 wrote: »

Servadei wrote: »

allochthons wrote: »

15 runs today, 10ish yesterday. Got it, finally.
This is NOT FUN, ZOS.

You're right it's not fun but as long as tons of people keep playing it, why should ZOS change their terrible FOMO RNG? The metrics for this type of RNG must look very successful and that's all that matters to a business.

* Are lots of players engaged in it? If yes, success!

Is it really a success if you get a lot of people to grind something that may never drop and they end up feeling burnt out and like they had their time wasted for no reward? I know I stopped putting in most of my time and money into this game after seeing so many of my friends and guildmates burned by random BoP time-limited drops in the Anniversary event. The choice to keep implementing the same mechanic after that speaks volumes, to me.

If people want it that bad then something was done right.

I prefer to play my game rather than let the game play me. I do not care for the hype of something if there is something I prefer not to do or it takes away from my overall enjoyment. It comes down to a choice when it does not effect actual gameplay.

Oh, I also think it is nice when something is somewhat rare. Some people have a striped tiger mount. I have been told it was offered once and will never be offered again. I do not, but I think it is a fantastic mount and should be unique for those with it.

ComboBreaker88 · November 6

Make more content like this. It gives value to things. The participation trophy era is at an end. You will all pray to RNG jesus.

virtus753 · November 6

Amottica wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Servadei wrote: »

allochthons wrote: »

15 runs today, 10ish yesterday. Got it, finally.
This is NOT FUN, ZOS.

You're right it's not fun but as long as tons of people keep playing it, why should ZOS change their terrible FOMO RNG? The metrics for this type of RNG must look very successful and that's all that matters to a business.

* Are lots of players engaged in it? If yes, success!

Is it really a success if you get a lot of people to grind something that may never drop and they end up feeling burnt out and like they had their time wasted for no reward? I know I stopped putting in most of my time and money into this game after seeing so many of my friends and guildmates burned by random BoP time-limited drops in the Anniversary event. The choice to keep implementing the same mechanic after that speaks volumes, to me.

If people want it that bad then something was done right.

I prefer to play my game rather than let the game play me. I do not care for the hype of something if there is something I prefer not to do or it takes away from my overall enjoyment. It comes down to a choice when it does not effect actual gameplay.

Oh, I also think it is nice when something is somewhat rare. Some people have a striped tiger mount. I have been told it was offered once and will never be offered again. I do not, but I think it is a fantastic mount and should be unique for those with it.

This is my point, though. That event is what erased any FOMO left for me about the rewards being offered here. I’m sitting on crowns and gold I’m no longer interested in spending. And I’m definitely not alone. The event was designed to rely on FOMO but ended up getting rid of it (along with any inclination to spend more money). I say all this despite having gotten all five style pages. It was seeing the disappointment on the part of my friends, guildies, and forumgoers that resulted in this. That’s not a success — it’s an unforced error.

The tiger mount is not the same. It was in no way RNG and did not require a grind of indefinite length that may or may not have had a reward at the end. It was a loyalty reward for a specific action: subbing for a certain period of time when the subscription was mandatory to play. I would have liked the tiger for myself, sure, but I am more than fine with knowing that it won’t be given to anyone else anymore. I respect that that was a reward given for loyalty under conditions that cannot be met, and I started playing after it was no longer available. That’s fair.

The Anniversary pages and the Hollowjack bust are pure RNG that is limited in time and has no protection (either through direct purchase from a vendor or a player or through bad luck protection). That’s a very different choice in terms of how to “reward” loyalty.

ssewallb14_ESO · November 6

ZOS appears committed to increasing the amount of FOMO in ESO, so I would either choose not to participate in said mechanics, or consider another game. There are some decent ones out there.

katanagirl1 · November 7

I wanted the bust, but forced grouping for these type of things in the game for me is a real turn off. I did it a few times but some days I just don’t feel like it. They support all kinds of diversity in this game except for those of us with social anxiety. Can’t you just have the portal let a certain number of people in the instance or something like that?

CGPsaint · November 8

freespirit wrote: »

So there is supposedly going to be an event I believe q1 2025 with a lot of returning items....... the Wooden Grave-Stake memento slated to be included, this article explains some of the returning items and other event activities.....

https://eso-hub.com/en/events/pan-tamriel-celebration

You are a gentle person and a scholar. Thank you for the heads up!

allochthons · November 9

SilverBride wrote: »

allochthons wrote: »

I just went back and checked. They did warn us about the bust, like they did about dismal anniversary drop rate. Dangit.

Warning us that something may be an extremely rare drop doesn't mean it's ok to make it an extremely rare drop, especially when it's a item that can only be acquired for a limited time.

I totally agree that the warning doesn't mitigate it.
I only commented that because I had just typed "at least for the Anniversary event they warned us." And then realized I better check my facts that they didn't warn us this time. And I was incorrect.

MidniteOwl1913 · November 9

As someone who is now in year 4 of trying to get all of the sovereign sow parts, I can tell you that having an event reward take multiple years is a motivation killer. I got the pack pig and called it a day. This year tickets only. More and more I can't bring myself to grind for things. ZOS RNG is burning me out.