Do Not Replace "Gates of Adamant"

TheGamerSeal · September 16

While the Gates of Adamant does not offer new characters the original "starting ESO" experience, it should still be kept, either by itself or alongside the restored Coldharbour content. I believe a successful argument can be made for giving players as much agency as possible, and allowing us to choose wherever we wanted in Tamriel (based on existing starter and DLC starter locations) to be our starting location was a phenomenal decision on ZeniMax's part. If absolutely necessary, there should be some subtle indicator present that Khenarthi's Roost, Stros M'kai, and Bleakrock Isle are the ideal starting locations without narrowing the paths of opportunity.

At this point in ESO's lifespan, it is - or should be - a hard no on removing potential gameplay avenues for players. Obviously, I can't speak for the whole of the ESO community, but I believe it is very important to mention that removing the Gates of Adamant in favor of content that was designed around the original three entry points for the game closes off a myriad of potential "origin stories" for characters.

I strongly believe that "Gates of Adamant" is a better choice for introducing players to the game than returning to an older (if updated) piece of content.

As an example, let's say I want to create an Imperial character who will eventually join the Daggerfall Covenant, but for whatever reason, begins on Khenarthi's Roost. This feeds the illusion that my character is able to "choose" which Alliance he eventually joins without feeling like he picked the first Alliance whose territory he washed up on. Having him wake up in Coldharbour, while giving a much more classic feel to the game, forces him into immediately landing face first in the waters of Stros M'kai and essentially setting him up to eventually join the Daggerfall Covenant without ever really giving him a choice in the matter story-wise. Of the two, I hope there is a clear distinction on which option is better for an MMO that emphasizes a "play how you want" approach to the game. Not to mention the fact that this is and has been a character I've been workshopping for at least two years (I've been busy with life, what can I say?) and will be completely inaccessible come U44's release.

With all this in mind, I would ask that serious consideration be taken in favor of preserving the "Gates of Adamant" experience.

Marto · September 17

TheGamerSeal wrote: »

At this point in ESO's lifespan, it is - or should be - a hard no on removing potential gameplay avenues for players.

I don't think this is a very prudent position to have. Choice paralysis is very much a thing, doubly so for new players who have just been bombarded with information about all sorts of mechanics, systems, controls, etc.

The main job of a tutorial should be to teach the player how to play and introduce the world. And giving the player more information and more choices is counterproductive to that goal.

A player who jumped into Northern Elsweyr or High Isle directly from the tutorial is a player who simply knows and understands less of the world of ESO. Whether the pretty vistas make up for that is subjective, sure. But I don't think it's worth it, not for a game this big and old.

StarOfElyon · September 17

I enjoyed the Gates tutorial quite a bit. And not just because of the lovely Altmer lady who guides us through it. I thought it just looked great overall and was a pretty decent little story. But I also think a tutorial that leads us right into the main quest would be best. I guess I could go either way. I better make another character just to do the gates tutorial one more time and record it before it's gone so I can have the memories.

Silaf · September 17

Is not about the original experience is about the story making sense. The game was designed to start in Coldarbour so many npc in the quests reference it.

Starting in the tower give you the possibility of meeting such characters pointing out you don't have a soul when you have never been sacrificied.

I guess the prologue quests assets can be reused in future content and reintroduced with some modifications.

TheGamerSeal · September 17

New players, then, should initially be locked to the Coldharbour quest and sent to a starter zone.

ESO_Nightingale · September 17

The original coldharbor quest is by far the best tutorial. It makes more sense for new players to start there.

Aliyavana · September 17

coldharbour is the best tutorial. i dont care about the balfiera tutorial, just dislike that one of the only bits of direnni content will not be accessible anymore. i hope they plan to add it as a normal playable zone in the future, as ayleids took up the elven ruin real estate in high rock.

TheGamerSeal · September 17

I don't even know why I'm putting up a fight anymore; it's going to happen.

code65536 · September 17

They should've combined the two.

Your soul is stolen and you end up in Coldharbor
You escape and are deposited on Nirn... in Balfiera
You continue the tutorial there and then choose where to start your story

This is what I suggested back when they first put the Balfiera tutorial on PTS, because it creates a coherent story flow.

What I hated about Balfiera is that if you choose one of the original starters like Stros, do the Stros and Betnikh story lines, end up in Glenumbra, and then you encounter the main quest, which... throws you back to Stros when you escape Coldharbor.

But if you always start with Coldharbor, then you escape from that and are deposited on Nirn. The Balfiera tutorial says that you fell out of the sky (or something like that), which would tie in smoothly with the Coldharbor escape, and when you choose a portal for Stros, you could plausibly imagine being dropped out of the sky again, which would make the dialog about them finding you in the water at the beginning of Stros make sense.

Combine the two tutorials (maybe cut out some duplicate parts), and it would be perfect.

But if you gotta pick one, Coldharbor offers the best consistency. I never liked the Balfiera tutorial because of how badly it fit into the flow.

OtarTheMad · September 17

I liked it but it had to be changed, hopefully for the final time. Too many times I was in an alliance zone and players in zone, presumably new, were wondering why chains were falling out of the sky.

It just seemed that the main story of the game took a backseat to whatever chapter.

noblecron · September 17

Idm the replacement but I would love to revisit it along with other old prologue areas

CoolBlast3 · September 17

Yeah ZOS please don't listen to this. The Gates of Adamant tutorial, whilst a quirky experience, is -terrible- for new players. I've seen so many newbies ask for "how to play the game in order" 24/7 (which is honestly also fed on by the horrible "play any order no timeline" system but the Balfiera tutorial really didn't help)
Restoring and improving Coldharbour is a great choice

Iriidius · September 17

Why not just add an option to choose another tutorial beneath the option to skip tutorial and set coldharbour as standart tutorial so players play it if they dont choose otherwise so new players can skip choice paralysis for tutorial and starter zone.

New players should still have an option to choose another tutorial somehow or skip it(second accounts, played somewhere else) and tutorials other than coldharbor could also get an option to start them later.
There are many interisting places never visitable again after finishing the quest they are created for.
While gates of adamamt is not very exiting as tutorial the direnni tower is very important and oldest building in tamriel with the white gold tower a copy and therefore should be visitable at any time even when not choosing that tutorial/outside of playing the tutorial.

BenTSG · September 17

I did really like and miss the base game tutorial so I am pretty chuffed with this (even though I'd use it once to see it's revamp), and as some others have said, it does fit the overall 'story' a little bettee, becoming the Vestige you always are right from the get go. 'Course I'd imagine there isn't anything stopping you from still travelling to the other zones. Mayve they could even tweak the end of the tutorial that instead of falling to a base game starting zone, you choose where you'd 'land' or turn up, maintaining the portal choice from the current tutorial

Aliyavana · September 17

code65536 wrote: »

They should've combined the two.
Your soul is stolen and you end up in Coldharbor

You escape and are deposited on Nirn... in Balfiera

You continue the tutorial there and then choose where to start your story

This is what I suggested back when they first put the Balfiera tutorial on PTS, because it creates a coherent story flow.

What I hated about Balfiera is that if you choose one of the original starters like Stros, do the Stros and Betnikh story lines, end up in Glenumbra, and then you encounter the main quest, which... throws you back to Stros when you escape Coldharbor.

But if you always start with Coldharbor, then you escape from that and are deposited on Nirn. The Balfiera tutorial says that you fell out of the sky (or something like that), which would tie in smoothly with the Coldharbor escape, and when you choose a portal for Stros, you could plausibly imagine being dropped out of the sky again, which would make the dialog about them finding you in the water at the beginning of Stros make sense.

Combine the two tutorials (maybe cut out some duplicate parts), and it would be perfect.

But if you gotta pick one, Coldharbor offers the best consistency. I never liked the Balfiera tutorial because of how badly it fit into the flow.

That would make the harvester following you make sense

Soarora · September 17

The new and improved coldharbour introduction feels a lot better than balifera did. It feels more natural, better explains combat and sneaking, and you arent stuck thinking for 15 minutes at the end wondering which portal to choose. By the end of the questline, I had exactly enough skills to make 1 bar complete. I just wish there was a section after the first level up where it guides you to slot a skill and then tells you about weaving.